[HN Gopher] Windows XP Activation: Game Over
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       Windows XP Activation: Game Over
        
       Author : sysadm1n
       Score  : 110 points
       Date   : 2023-05-18 19:42 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (tinyapps.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (tinyapps.org)
        
       | ungruntled wrote:
       | I've been using Windows XP VMs without activation, or even a
       | prompt to activate. I didn't know they even needed activation.
       | Does anyone know what activation is needed for?
        
         | cellularmitosis wrote:
         | I actually just ran into this the other weekend. After a
         | certain amount of time (30 days?), Windows will prompt you to
         | activate, and if you don't, it kicks you to the login screen.
        
         | EscapeFromNY wrote:
         | Normally Windows XP would lock you out completely after a while
         | if you don't activate. But there are a lot of exceptions, like
         | volume license keys, certain OEM install discs, certain VM
         | images released by MS, and _ahem_ unofficial ISOs with things
         | like AntiWPA slipstreamed into the install.
        
         | RulerOf wrote:
         | If you ever worked in IT during the XP era, you got your hands
         | on a private Volume License Key. XP VLKs bypassed activation,
         | and they were the piracy tool of choice until Microsoft started
         | blacklisting them[1].
         | 
         | 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_licensing#Leaked_keys
        
           | stuff4ben wrote:
           | I installed so many Windows XP systems back in the day
           | (manually of course) that I memorized the product key.
        
         | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
         | > I've been using Windows XP VMs without activation, or even a
         | prompt to activate.
         | 
         | If you go into properties, does it show XP isn't activated?
         | IIRC, early XP releases didn't nag from the tray. I've also
         | seen some Dell installs that auto activated after pulling the
         | key from BIOS.
        
           | ungruntled wrote:
           | It says it's activated. I think this is because I was using
           | one of those Windows XP compatibility isos that Microsoft
           | made available for download a long time ago (as far as I
           | remember).
        
       | rejectfinite wrote:
       | I Remoted/Teamviewered into a Windows XP laptop a few years ago
       | form my Windows 10 work PC. And WOW the XP machine was so fast.
       | They installed XP on a new-ish Intel i3 and 4GB RAM for some
       | reason, probably old software. And the UI just flew, so smooth,
       | even over Teamviewer.
       | 
       | They wanted it on corp wifi however... that was a no-go
        
       | roschdal wrote:
       | This is why the world needs Linux.
        
         | pseudosavant wrote:
         | I would bet $50 that it is easier to install Windows XP with an
         | activation 'hack' than it would be to install most Linux
         | distros from 2001. We are talking RedHat Linux 7 (not RHEL)
         | running a Linux 2.2 kernel.
         | 
         | Most Linux 'reviews' back then were basically a review on how
         | easy (or more likely, hard) it is to install. Most distros
         | installers faired pretty poorly back then. I succeeded in
         | getting RedHat 7 installed, but could never get Slackware or
         | SUSE to successfully install.
        
           | cellularmitosis wrote:
           | WinLinux 2000 (the first distro I ever installed) was a
           | pretty painless experience. It installed as a Windows "app"
           | which rebooted into Linux, and used UMSDOS to share a single
           | filesystem.
        
           | klodolph wrote:
           | If you're comparing RedHat Linux 7 against Windows XP, you're
           | thinking in terms of the release date of XP. Windows XP was
           | not very good when it came out, and it wasn't until it got
           | the service packs.
           | 
           | So if you're going to start with something like Windows XP
           | service pack 3, meaning that you were someone who didn't jump
           | straight to Vista (I'll be a Vista apologist, but people were
           | being reasonable when they didn't jump from XP), at that
           | point, you're comparing it to Linux distros of 2008. That
           | would be something like Fedora 8, Ubuntu 8, or Debian 4. This
           | was the GNOME 2 era and it was a pretty damn smooth
           | experience.
           | 
           | If you're thinking a bit deeper in terms of user experience
           | for the early, early 2000s, then you would probably put
           | FreeBSD high up on your list rather than treating Linux as an
           | assumption.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | IIRC Linux installed pretty well, as long as you were
           | dedicating the whole drive to it.
           | 
           | It was dual booting that would get you every time.
        
           | asveikau wrote:
           | Linux 2.4 released in January 2001.
           | 
           | I remember circa 2004 I set up my non technical brother with
           | one of the earliest versions of Ubuntu, after he kept getting
           | malware on XP, and he didn't have difficulty with it. I was
           | kind of surprised how easy it was. I was a debian and OpenBSD
           | user at the time.
        
           | activiation wrote:
           | I used to install Slackware with a bunch of floppies... I
           | think it was easier then Arch today (although I can do both)
        
             | em-bee wrote:
             | if you have been installing linux since the early floppy
             | days, sure, by 2000 it was easy. i was there too and i
             | don't remember any problems either. but those new to linux
             | at the time were likely having more difficulties than us
             | grumpy old geeks.
        
           | jdwithit wrote:
           | I vaguely remember trying to install Gentoo back in the early
           | 2000s. It took more than 24 hours and eventually failed with
           | an inscrutable C compilation failure in some random package.
           | That was quite the eye opening experience. Certainly gave me
           | an appreciation for the relative polish of Red Hat and other
           | packaged distros, despite their warts.
        
           | dtx1 wrote:
           | Yeah but Suse linux existed
        
             | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
             | And CentOS 4.5 (okay that was 2007 but we had both OS
             | running at the same time - mostly because we weren't
             | getting anywhere near Vista [2006]).
        
             | rootsudo wrote:
             | Mandrake was pretty easy, and even SCO UNIX (not GNU/Linux)
             | had an release - grub worked, fat32/fat16 partitioning was
             | possible and there was previous NTFS windows releases, NT
             | 3.5/4 and 2000 that facilitated it.
             | 
             | They all had GUI interactive installers, and had floppy
             | boot disks to boot (too!)
        
           | optymizer wrote:
           | You couldn't get Slackware or SuSE to install ... ever? or
           | recently?
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | that is missing the point.
           | 
           | people want to use windows XP in order to run old software
           | that doesn't run on newer systems. (or because they are
           | nostalgic, but those are not helped with linux, so we can
           | ignore them)
           | 
           | a modern linux distribution is way more likely to run old
           | linux and windows software than a modern windows version.
           | 
           | hence that's why the world needs linux, because it doesn't
           | have the problems that windows upgrades have.
           | 
           | you may argue that new linux distributions don't have old
           | libraries either, which is true, but getting older libraries
           | to install and run is way easier than on windows. and it's
           | possible to put an old linux binary (even one for which there
           | is no source) into an environment and make it workable on a
           | modern linux distribution, and with things like flatpak it is
           | also possible to make such an environment easily installable
           | for a non-technical end user. getting old windows binaries to
           | run is even easier because that's exactly how wine works.
        
           | thsksbd wrote:
           | [dead]
        
           | phatbyte wrote:
           | Never had problems installing any major Linux dist, but 15
           | years ago I still remember the boring and time consuming on
           | patching the kernel with custom patches so that my wi-fi card
           | or gfx card could work.
           | 
           | I stopped trying to use Linux as a desktop OS since then. But
           | recently I tried for fun installing Ubuntu and everything
           | just worked out of the box.
           | 
           | I still feel Linux is too fragmented, too many package
           | managers, too many UI managers etc...but that's part of the
           | beauty of it I guess.
        
           | omoikane wrote:
           | I recall installing linux wasn't the difficult part, it's
           | getting your peripherals to work after that.
        
         | danjoredd wrote:
         | I love Linux as much as the next nerd...but Linux was notorious
         | in the early 2000s. Also this is about using Windows XP for the
         | sake of using Windows XP.
        
         | rejectfinite wrote:
         | This is about using Windows XP because it is Windows XP. Maybe
         | we like it.
        
       | haunter wrote:
       | >MAS (hosted on their own platform)
       | 
       | MAS is awesome. Anyways MS doesn't care about private piracy.
       | They rather have you pirate Windows than leave the platform and
       | use another OS. This is my conspiracy theory about WSL too (which
       | is an actual nice software but still).
        
         | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
         | I've used it to quickly auth XP VMs that were needed to run
         | ancient Navision clients. It works as advertised.
         | 
         | I had to whitelist the directory in Windows Security because it
         | makes MSAV grumpy and then uploads it's grumpiness home.
        
         | gymbeaux wrote:
         | It's not a conspiracy theory. It's well-known that Microsoft's
         | "M$ <3 Linux" campaign is propaganda. It's classic anti-
         | competitive Microsoft behavior that started with IE in the 90s.
        
           | sterlind wrote:
           | (Disclaimer: I work at MS, but not on WSL, opinions are my
           | own.)
           | 
           | I don't see how WSL is embrace-extend-extinguish. Embrace,
           | yes. Extend? No. There's basically nothing that only runs on
           | WSL and not real Linux. Only QoL integrations with the
           | Windows shell like X11/Wayland and Explorer integration. The
           | point of WSL is backend dev. If WSL were on an EEE path,
           | you'd expect to see MS adding Windows-only integrations, and
           | encouraging people to run WSL server instances. Instead, MS
           | has never positioned WSL for prod use, and instead cautions
           | _against_ using it for non-dev activities. Even internally,
           | we don 't use WSL to host Linux stuff. We use CBL-Mariner
           | instead [1], which is completely FOSS.
           | 
           | The whole point of WSL was that Windows lost to Linux for
           | backend. Unlike Ballmer, Satya didn't want to waste resources
           | fighting a losing battle, so he pivoted the company towards
           | Azure and dev tooling and away from Windows Server. And that
           | succeeded, and it's why we're not irrelevant like IBM - we
           | ditched our mainframes, as it were.
           | 
           | 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBL-Mariner
        
             | zadintuvas1 wrote:
             | Do you remember that DirectX loves Linux announcement?
        
             | jchw wrote:
             | > There's basically nothing that only runs on WSL and not
             | real Linux.
             | 
             | Not going to weigh in on the other aspects of this but I
             | think this is untrue nowadays. Direct3D off-screen
             | rendering and DirectML are supported in WSL2 and while
             | there are several Direct3D implementations that run on
             | Linux, I don't think there has been an attempt at DirectML
             | yet, and neither are ever going to be possible using
             | official drivers and official DirectX like you can on
             | Windows with WSL2.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | tracker1 wrote:
           | I think a lot of it is the writing on the wall... long term,
           | it's software as a service model that will be their recurring
           | revenue streams. I'm not sure what they're making in terms of
           | just Windows licensing, but can guess that M365 is probably
           | as much or more per year.
           | 
           | In the past 6-7 years most of the applications I've worked
           | on, even those using Visual Studio, C#, etc. Have been
           | tested/deployed on Linux more than Windows.
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | I think it's the same reason why they don't care about the
         | various KMS emulation servers for Windows 10/11 - some of these
         | are even open source.
        
         | josephcsible wrote:
         | If Microsoft would rather have people pirate Windows than use
         | another OS, then why did they add product activation at all?
        
           | rejectfinite wrote:
           | Companies using it need to pay.
           | 
           | Home users are whatever.
        
             | tracker1 wrote:
             | I'm pretty sure the reason for the forever upgrades since
             | Win7 is more because it costs them less to have fewer
             | variations of windows in the wild than to stay closer to
             | evergreen.
        
           | Lammy wrote:
           | It was justification for an OS that has the capability to
           | phone home over a network, and now twenty years later we have
           | Windows OSes that log and report everything down to the
           | minute details of what you do in the calculator. Xbox was the
           | same thing: justification for developing code-signature
           | enforcement, hardware attestation, remote key revocation,
           | etc. We would have opposed those things if they came from the
           | world of general-purpose computing, so instead they were
           | developed on an appliance platform where media """needs""" to
           | be protected from the user, then it metastasized over to our
           | computers two generations later once it was battle-tested.
        
           | bydo wrote:
           | Because they'd still _prefer_ you purchase it, or maybe a
           | later version.
           | 
           | In Windows 10, if you don't activate, all that happens is
           | that it displays "Unregistered" in the corner and refuses to
           | let you change the desktop wallpaper (and you can even get
           | around that by rearming the "trial").
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | rationalist wrote:
           | Make sure businesses pay?
        
             | josephcsible wrote:
             | Didn't the basic product key requirement in Windows 95 take
             | care of that?
        
               | rationalist wrote:
               | Not if they keep reusing the same key for multiple
               | installs?
        
           | dist-epoch wrote:
           | You can buy $10 legit keys. You can also get "free" keys from
           | a student friend (academic license, ...)
           | 
           | > Kinguin's merchants acquire the codes from wholesalers who
           | have surplus copies of Windows they don't need. "It's not a
           | gray market. It would be like buying Adidas or Puma or Nike
           | from a discounter, from TJ Maxx," Jordan said. "There are no
           | legal issues with buying it from us. It's just another
           | marketplace."
           | 
           | https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/get-windows-10-free-
           | or-...
        
             | mschuster91 wrote:
             | > You can buy $10 legit keys
             | 
             | These keys may activate just fine, but they are not "legit"
             | in any case. Most turn out to be acquired in illicit ways
             | (MSDN licenses, ...), and a couple years ago here in
             | Germany this led to massive amounts of criminal cases [1].
             | 
             | [1] https://www.borncity.com/blog/2021/03/05/betrug-mit-
             | office-w...
        
           | devnullbrain wrote:
           | Price discrimination
        
       | tommek4077 wrote:
       | Why the hassle and not just FCKGW-.......?
        
         | kotaKat wrote:
         | FCKGW was blacklisted VERY early on with Windows Genuine
         | Advantage updates and later service-pack-integrated media would
         | block that key in the installer, even.
        
       | tinglymintyfrsh wrote:
       | Worth noting Microsoft product keys are/were tied to the channel
       | they were sold through, and the difference being 2-3 files on
       | install media.
       | 
       | PS: VLK XP doesn't suffer this problem.
       | 
       | Edit: Nice utility to extract product keys from a live system.
       | https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html
        
       | EMIRELADERO wrote:
       | Shame that it's a closed-source tool. I hope somebody reverse-
       | engineers it and releases a web version.
        
       | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
       | For a use case of a new XP install, I have clients with DVR
       | systems, with a webui that only works in IE.
       | 
       | However, IE mode in Edge comes with 1) an unremovable banner
       | warning you to stop using IE mode and 2) an automatic 6 month
       | expiration of sites you put in the IE Mode whitelist (supposedly
       | overrulable by a GPO - but it's commonly broken).
       | 
       | It turned out to be less trouble to spin up an XP VM and make IE
       | available to network users as a Remote App.
        
         | scq wrote:
         | There are still ways to use the IE engine on current Windows,
         | aside from Edge's IE mode. Namely, there's the WebBrowser
         | ActiveX control, which uses the IE engine on all Windows
         | versions.
         | 
         | Easily embeddable in a .NET app:
         | https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/desktop/winforms/co...
        
         | hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
         | You could drop a reverse proxy infront which rewrites the user
         | agent, this will probably fox many of the issues.
         | 
         | I'd be cautious about using a DVR for any sensitive situation
         | if it's unmaintained if the Dvr is used in sensitive scenarios.
         | There would be a significant amount of reputational damage if
         | it's ever hacked, particularly if ugly workarounds are used to
         | bypass software being totally EOL'd.
        
       | xupybd wrote:
       | This will be a big win for industrial machines. I work with some
       | that required Win XP to run very old and niche cards that
       | interface with CNC machines.
       | 
       | You can run newer computers but they only just work and cost way
       | more than they're worth.
       | 
       | It's a real shame you end up in a situation where it's cheaper to
       | replace a machine than keep it going just because the software is
       | so hard to get working on a new PC and PC hardware has a limited
       | life. It's effectively bricking a 6 meter CNC machine. That is a
       | lot of machine.
        
       | willcipriano wrote:
       | > Microsoft will see fit to release an official XP activation
       | tool for posterity.
       | 
       | Free Idea for Microsoft: Windows XP PCs but like those mini
       | consoles[0] that have been released recently. Could be preloaded
       | with games from the era and intended to be used offline so
       | patches don't matter.
       | 
       | [0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Classic
        
         | rootsudo wrote:
         | Ah, yes, link the example that was considered a failure and had
         | bestbuy and other big block retailers sell them for $15-20 less
         | than 6 months after release. (Maybe 3 months?)
         | 
         | I bought quite a few of them when they were slashed back in
         | 2019. $15, free shipping, quite a value. The scene is largely
         | ran by 2 redditors now.
        
         | rejectfinite wrote:
         | >Could be preloaded with games from the era
         | 
         | So, only Microsoft published ones then. You realise that right?
         | 
         | You can buy and play Windows XP era games on Steam and run them
         | just great on Windows 10/11.
         | 
         | FEAR is a great one, released in 2005, still looks and plays
         | amazing. https://store.steampowered.com/app/21090/FEAR/
         | 
         | So I have no idea what you mean :)
        
           | nibbleshifter wrote:
           | I've been meaning to replay FEAR sometime. Thanks for the
           | reminder!
        
           | MrFoof wrote:
           | _> You can buy and play Windows XP era games on Steam and run
           | them just great on Windows 10/11._
           | 
           | Or older (pre-Steam) games in a virtual machine.
           | 
           | Hyper-V comes with Pro versions of Windows. VMWare has a
           | Player that is also free _(plus there 's full Workstation)_.
           | There's also VirtualBox, which sometimes is _the_ packaged
           | solution for very old titles sold on platforms like GOG.
           | Never mind the solutions for Mac OS, Linux and BSD.
           | 
           | Recently my jam is going back to 1994 and playing a game from
           | the Windows 3.1/Windows 95 transition era, rife with 16-bit
           | libraries -- Mordor: The Depths of Dejenol. A game in which
           | it was likely a lot of older folks here _played the crap out
           | of the demo_ , but never bought the game because it involved
           | sending a check in the mail -- and because even the demo
           | could provide hundreds of hours of enjoyment. Though you can
           | legitimately buy it online from its current IP owner for
           | about $10 _(more if you want a boxed copy!)_ , and it's just
           | as fun as I remember it 30 years ago.
           | 
           | And setting it up in a virtual machine? Very straightforward,
           | save for digging up some third-party audio library the game
           | wanted. I actually just have a 40GB Windows XP VM I just
           | maintain with all my old games from DOS and Windows 3.1
           | through 2002 or so. I can move it between hypervisors,
           | between host OSes, etc. Just works. All my old games always
           | ready to go.
        
             | toasteros wrote:
             | I am not aware of any titles on GOG that are packaged with
             | vortualbox, do you have any examples?
        
               | stonemetal12 wrote:
               | I am pretty sure they meant DosBox. GOG is pretty well
               | known for using that to support older games.
        
           | dimgl wrote:
           | Unfortunately, while it does run on Windows 11, there's a bit
           | of light modding you'll have to do in order to get it to be
           | stable.
        
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       (page generated 2023-05-18 23:01 UTC)