[HN Gopher] SpaceTop, an innovative laptop without a screen
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SpaceTop, an innovative laptop without a screen
Author : advance512
Score : 152 points
Date : 2023-05-18 15:32 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.pcworld.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.pcworld.com)
| crabbone wrote:
| Imagine wanting to show something on your screen to someone
| else...
|
| I mean, technically, it's probably possible to connect multiple
| glasses, but this model seems like it's only one pair per laptop.
| chaostheory wrote:
| You don't need multiple glasses. The article states that it has
| a DisplayPort likely for that very issue
| agumonkey wrote:
| Some people are massively thinking this is gonna be the next
| step. It's an interesting take.
| sergioisidoro wrote:
| I love the compact form of my laptop, hate to be constantly
| looking down. I have a super bulky screen just to have a few
| windows side by side. If (and that's a big if) this would be
| able to achieve 60hz 4k equivalent, its hands down the next
| step.
| throw9away6 wrote:
| I don't really understand why my iPhone can't just be a desktop.
| It should just hook up to a dock and turn into a desktop pc. It's
| got the power to do everything I do I just need a monitor and
| keyboard hookup
| [deleted]
| fyloraspit wrote:
| At a point some time ago, I think around when Windows mobile OS
| was still a thing, they released a phone and a dock and you
| could use it as a desktop for modern apps. It was limited to
| apps due to architecture but that always seemed like the next
| step to me for many people. A mobile you could just use as a PC
| via a dock and run desktop apps on it. I think we will still
| see it, but it really felt like Microsoft was going to deliver
| years ago on it.
| rchaud wrote:
| I've purchased a lapdock for my Galaxy Fold precisely for this
| reason. My MBP is almost 10 years old, and when I looked at
| buying a new one, I saw that it cost $400 to bump up the RAM
| from base model 8GB to 16GB.
|
| No thanks! My phone has 12GB; I'm going to be using that for
| general computing and RDP into my Macbook when I need to.
| steanne wrote:
| motorola in 2011:
|
| https://www.cnet.com/reviews/motorola-laptop-dock-review/
| ChikkaChiChi wrote:
| The Atrix was so far ahead of its time. They also worked
| wonderfully for troubleshooting headless boxes.
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| For the same reason you cannot use ab iPad as your Mac Mini
| display easily and out of the box
| throw9away6 wrote:
| Can other tablets behave as a monitor only?
| satvikpendem wrote:
| Because Apple wants you to buy a Mac as well as an iPhone, as
| well as an iPad. On Android things are a bit better with
| Samsung's DEX, among others.
| throw9away6 wrote:
| Android should be able to do the same basically becoming a
| chrome book when hooked up to a dock. Slap it into a 11"
| screen and you get tablet.
| rchaud wrote:
| This is already the case on most (not all) Android phones
| with USB-C video out. However, Google has not provided a
| desktop interface, so OEMs have had to create their own.
| Currently, Samsung, Motorola, Huawei and LG (RIP) offer
| desktop UIs when the phone is hooked up to a monitor.
| chaostheory wrote:
| Maybe it can with this upcoming WWDC? Apple Reality should
| finally make its appearance
| mywacaday wrote:
| Samsung DEX works reasonably well for light office work and
| browsing. Haven't tried it on anything heavier.
| dbtc wrote:
| I just need a good terminal, tmux can do the heavy lifting.
| vinceguidry wrote:
| If that's really all you need, Termux on Android has you
| covered.
| rbanffy wrote:
| Any 8-bit microcontroller can power a terminal. That's
| all you need.
| thesh4d0w wrote:
| https://juicessh.com/
| sleepybrett wrote:
| Yeah. I'm the same. At some point we're going to get to a point
| where your 'laptop' is your phone or another 'phone sized
| thing'. That can be docked into various configurations (laptop
| configuration: small keyboard with an attached screen. desktop
| configuration: Monitors, full sized keyboard, mice other
| peripherals. Or some kind of ultra mobile configuration like
| this: keyboard pointing device glasses based display.) Or used
| in a more limited way via a touchscreen (or not!).
| _trampeltier wrote:
| Sadly Wondows Mobile was already death when HP X3 came to
| public. The concept was great. CPU and storage in the
| cellphone, transmitted wireless to the "lapdock". You could
| plug the things together and load the cellphone from the
| lapdock battery.
|
| https://www.windowscentral.com/hands-hp-elite-x3-lap-dock
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > I don't really understand why my iPhone can't just be a
| desktop.
|
| It can't?
|
| I mean, I've got better desktops (all of which are actually
| laptops) so I rarely use the phone this way, but my phone can
| with just an adaptor to plug in HDMI and a keyboard & mouse,
| and the Apple fans are always telling me how much better
| iPhones are at everything...
| billconan wrote:
| this is a cool concept, but I have tried some VR devices, none of
| them are clear enough to be a monitor replacement.
|
| I also don't know the long term impact of these devices to my eye
| sight.
| drcongo wrote:
| My vision is only in perfect(ish) focus at the exact distance
| that I sit from my computer screen. I can't imagine that this
| is a coincidence.
| dr_kiszonka wrote:
| It probably isn't but there are simple exercises to help
| ameliorate it+. (The problem is that I am frequently too lazy
| or too busy to do them.)
|
| +unless, in your case, the arrow of causality between vision
| and computer screen distance is in the opposite direction.
| ChrisLTD wrote:
| what exercises should we be doing?
| kojiromike wrote:
| It makes sense, kinda. Basically Nreal-style glasses with a
| headless computer.
|
| But why stop there? If you further separate the keyboard/mouse
| from the computer, then you not only allow people to choose their
| own HCI (trackball? tapwithus keyboard?) but they can bring their
| own input, too.
|
| Imagine all the benefits of the modularity of a desktop, with
| equal (if not better) portability of a laptop.
| sublinear wrote:
| The problem with going wearable is the input. Nothing is as
| good as a full keyboard. The smallest reasonable solution I
| have found is a bluetooth keyboard for nontrivial use. Chorded
| keyboards and whatnot just aren't as good and believe me I've
| tried.
| leovander wrote:
| > Nothing is as good as a full keyboard.
|
| I don't know what the solution is, but I remember most
| decrying that a keyboard on a mobile device would not work
| and that they wanted their Blackberry keyboards, but Apple
| nailed it. Here's to seeing that the next input/interface
| will be.
| sublinear wrote:
| Actually I wouldn't mind having a physical keyboard on a
| phone again.
|
| On-screen keyboards are only a slight improvement. What
| they solved is everything else except typing speed and
| accuracy.
| marssaxman wrote:
| I never got used to glass keyboards, and gladly bought
| both the BlackBerry KeyOne and KeyTwo. They were _so_
| nice!
| nine_k wrote:
| I split keyboard is better than a full keyboard. Easier and
| faster to type, less strain. Can't work easily as a single
| piece though, and this severely limits its usability in
| travel / transport settings.
| lampd1 wrote:
| This thread is just full of XR simps who clearly haven't been
| hands on with much AR; lack of spatial computing and cagey FOV
| stats combined with a custom OS means this is an over-hyped as-
| seen-on-tv gimmick.
| theodric wrote:
| I've been doing this since December with a pair of Nreal Air
| glasses and alternately a MacBook and an SBC. It's okay-ish, but
| not great. Text rendering is sub-par requiring jacked-up font
| sizes, the viewport is fairly small, and if you're using the
| Nreal desktop for simulated multi-monitor configuration, the
| display jiggles a bit as the accelerometers catch up with your
| movements. It's sure as hell not worth the $2000 they're looking
| for. The SoC is old, too. Just get an 11g Framework, strip the
| LCD, plug a set of Nreals into a USB-C DP port, install Windows,
| and use the Nreal desktop. Boom: better, faster, newer, cheaper
| than $2000, and you can get it shipped right away.
| mosquitobiten wrote:
| Can you get away with smaller font size if you have the cover
| on or it doesn't matter?
| rbanffy wrote:
| So, like an 80s home computer, but with a VR/AR set instead of a
| screen.
|
| Could look like a Sinclair QL, at least.
| satvikpendem wrote:
| So, a Commodore but with AR?
| Ralfp wrote:
| Commondore with battery and migraine triggers.
| rbanffy wrote:
| You don't need to trigger migraines - it's perfectly OK to
| keep the "screen" fixed in reference to the user's head.
| wedn3sday wrote:
| Basically my idea for a pico PC attached to an nreal air, but at
| a 2-3x markup.
| lab14 wrote:
| Is anyone aware of any studies done on the long term effects of
| beaming photons to your retina from that close distance?
| explorigin wrote:
| Distance doesn't matter for a fatigue perspective. Light
| intensity and time are big factors, though.
|
| Focusing on a short distance for a long period of time has been
| associated with myopia (though I'm not sure if they've
| established a causal link).
|
| I didn't really answer your question. Sorry. No I'm not aware.
| mongol wrote:
| Not aware. But I was once examined by an eye doctor after
| having been exposed to a quite intensive amount of light. He
| said that during eye surgery they used very powerful light. So
| I think the bar is quite high, in comparison to AR glasses
| Jishin wrote:
| Bought a Viture One over Kickstarter, got a great pair of XR
| glasses, with a dial for up to -5 on each individual eye, plus a
| docking battery and a neckband with Android. Used them with my
| work Samsung S21 and Dex plus a Bluetooth Logitech keyboard.
| Total cost, since the phone was free, around 600$. Why would I
| pay 2000$ for half a laptop keyboard with less power than my
| phone?!?
| soulofmischief wrote:
| Fascinating. Hard to know if it's worth it at this stage due to
| the 1080p per-eye resolution, but the second incarnation of this
| product ought to be a real game-changer.
|
| Also, I noted this passage:
|
| _even with a very odd prescription (one eye is near-sighted, and
| one far-sighted) the default corrective lenses Sightful had
| available worked well._
|
| I've never encountered another person with this same eye
| disorder... It can be a real nuisance in certain cases. Nice to
| see this specifically addressed :)
| Murrawhip wrote:
| I have this. As a kid, it made catching a ball pretty difficult
| as my dominant eye would switch right as the ball gets to me.
|
| I like to think that's the reason, anyway.
| rbanffy wrote:
| > Hard to know if it's worth it at this stage due to the 1080p
| per-eye resolution,
|
| I wonder if a normal camera can be used to track head movements
| with a better AR set.
|
| It'd be fun to add multiple extra screens around the main one
| on my laptop just by plugging in my glasses into the USB-C
| port.
|
| > I've never encountered another person with this same eye
| disorder...
|
| Before both my eyes went shortsighted I had it - it always felt
| like having one eye optimized for short distances and one for
| long ones, with the brain making the switch automatically like
| a smartphone stitches together an image using various lenses of
| various focal lengths.
|
| Still having different degrees of shortsightedness (a bit on
| the left and almost none on the right) is mildly annoying.
| ChikkaChiChi wrote:
| I was tooling around with VR development when I tried developing
| directly from within the headset. Shockingly, the Quest 2 was
| streets ahead of the Index when it came to usability. It wasn't
| bad; it just wasn't something I would want to replace my current
| setup.
|
| I'm sure once the headsets hit a certain resolution, this will
| become much more common.
| Twisell wrote:
| This is exactly the kind of concept I personally expect from
| Apple if the AR rumors materialize at the upcoming WWDC... maybe
| with a less clunky design.
|
| Now that I think about it, the existing Mission Control/Full
| screen App interface could make total sense for this UI. You
| could quite easily translate theses concepts to an AR deck
| bridging the gap between all existing Apps and this new
| interface.
| rwc wrote:
| It's widely speculated that the Apple AR product will run iPad
| apps, and that stage manager was shipped last year as a
| multitasking environment well suited to AR.
| [deleted]
| Phenomenit wrote:
| I don't get how you're supposed to use the webcam? Maybe it
| applies your eyes on to your face?
| joezydeco wrote:
| _brought to you by the chief executive behind the Microsoft
| Kinect._
|
| It's a Kinect. It's a head tracker.
| Phenomenit wrote:
| The webcam?
| sgt wrote:
| And voice input could use AI to simulate lip movement. I like
| it. This will look very natural.
| manicennui wrote:
| $2k for an underpowered ARM laptop running Android seems like a
| good way to make sure this fails.
| danjoredd wrote:
| Ok but will Linux run well on it?
| drewg123 wrote:
| I've been dreaming of a product like this for years. I'm most
| productive in my office setup with large 42" + 24" monitors. When
| I travel I feel cramped and unproductive on my laptop. The laptop
| screen size does not seem to matter within the limits of what I'm
| comfortable lugging with me (nothing larger than a 15-16" mbp).
| So I've longed for some kind of VR or projected display from a
| laptop or mobile device.
|
| I signed up and really hope that I'm selected..
| bwb wrote:
| Same here, a lot of my work requires wide screen and traveling
| means carrying and extra lcd. I hope this tech emerges!
| zamnos wrote:
| Nreal sells glasses that are available today, on Amazon, and
| their Nebula virtual desktop app is available for Mac and
| Windows. The FoV on the Air isn't great, and if you wear
| corrective lenses you'll need to wear contacts, or get their
| prescription inserts, but that future is already here. It
| connects via USB-C to your existing computer, though dongles
| are available if you only have HDMI.
|
| The software isn't _quite_ there yet, but it 's still early
| days for it so it'll hopefully get better.
| SergeAx wrote:
| But... as a business user I need the camera for my endless Zoom
| calls much more!
| beambot wrote:
| This is the simple "metaverse" product Facebook should've started
| with. I just want a full-sized display headset that hooks into
| USB-C port and emulates a 4k external monitor
| dybber wrote:
| Would allow laptops with ergonomic keyboards! That would be an
| interesting product.
| rqtwteye wrote:
| I think in principle this is a great idea and maybe the future. I
| just wonder what this will do to your eyes if used the whole day.
| nntwozz wrote:
| Probably not great if you compare to previous inventions. Kids
| that use iPads early instead of going outside already have
| problems with developing proper eyesight.
|
| TVs made us watch things close, PCs made us watch things
| closer, then we had smartphones. Wearing glasses is the last
| step before we go full Borg.
| palata wrote:
| The difference here being that you don't focus on the glass,
| but further. So in terms of focus, that's closer to a PC
| screen than to a smartphone, right?
| twobitshifter wrote:
| Still looks like a prototype, but I hope we get to this as a
| common form factor. I take my laptop from office to couch and
| being able to have the screen size wherever would be great. I
| especially liked the ability to move the displays closer and
| farther away from you and pin windows. We'll see if keyboards and
| trackpads get replaced by other inputs. The processing will
| likely move to your "phone".
| mellosouls wrote:
| This review seems a little lacking without any mention of direct
| competitors to the headset like NReal Air and Bigscreens glasses.
|
| It dismisses Meta's workspaces on VR platforms without mentioning
| dedicated providers like Immersed as potentially better options.
|
| There is possibly a niche market for separates (glasses,
| keyboards, base units etc) that excel at their individual
| function within this emerging AR/VR space; it will be interesting
| to see if closely coupled products like this can match the
| excellence of specialists or if the focus on the convenience of
| all-in-one will lead to generalist jack-of-all-trades mediocrity.
|
| Interesting product anyway but would have liked more thought in
| the comparison products, and more consideration of the base unit
| as a potential driver for competitor headsets like the
| aforementioned.
| RalfWausE wrote:
| I would say the cyberdeck has finally arried...
| croes wrote:
| I doubt that the resolution is high enough for long text reading.
|
| Sounds like the idea of a Kickstarter project, sounds good but
| doesn't really work
| [deleted]
| mncharity wrote:
| For a reality check on those large virtual desktop illustrations,
| while I do like the (same hardware?) NReal Light's 1080p, its 52
| deg FOV means looking at such a desktop through a smaller, not-
| curved, head-pointed portal. Picture holding up your laptop, so
| it appears 5 fists across diagonally, and then waving it around,
| likely synchronized with your neck. Which looks something vaguely
| like these:[1][2].
|
| [1] Phone photo through NReal Light
| https://twitter.com/mncharity/status/1397553615372529668/pho...
| [2] DIY rough analogy
| https://twitter.com/mncharity/status/1225091755667853318
| Jarmsy wrote:
| Also note the 53-degree FOV they quote is for the _diagonal_
| angle! In all their press releases they 're comically cagey
| about giving actual resolution and angle info for the display,
| which makes me distrust them.
| [deleted]
| hprotagonist wrote:
| how well does it work when you live in a shipping container?
| asking for a friend.
| joezydeco wrote:
| username checks out
| adamwong246 wrote:
| It's a cyberdeck!
| lampd1 wrote:
| No.
| politician wrote:
| Just needs a Bigscreen Beyond VR headset
|
| https://www.bigscreenvr.com
| sulam wrote:
| One step closer to Snowcrash.
| sublinear wrote:
| https://blog.adafruit.com/2017/08/02/make-your-own-wearable-...
|
| Uhh... this is about as innovative as a much cheaper DIY project
| from many years ago? I think everyone with a vufine and a pi zero
| has done this before. As a bonus you get to use linux instead of
| android.
| palata wrote:
| It doesn't have to be innovative. It has to work well.
| lesona wrote:
| In case anyone wants the original article the adafruit post is
| based on - [1].
|
| [1]
| https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/7/27/16035508/d...
| lagniappe wrote:
| I use the nReal for this currently, it's great. The glasses are
| comfy, and I can have blockers on the front or see through to
| other things. You can be full wearable right now for less than
| you think.
| hiatus wrote:
| How long are your sessions on average? Is this your daily
| driver or just for certain occasions (travel, etc)?
| butz wrote:
| I would gladly buy a PC built into decent keyboard. Considering
| performance of ultra portable laptops and their size, it should
| be a perfect fit. I would even go for an option without battery,
| powered by USB-C by connecting this computer to external monitor.
| Monitor could act as a hub, thus reducing the need for ports,
| although there should be ample space for all the ports on the
| back of the keyboard.
| layer8 wrote:
| I'd go for a NUC (roughly 4.5" x 4.5" x 1.5") or similar plus
| separate keyboard as the next best and arguably more flexible
| solution.
| butz wrote:
| Unfortunately, last time I checked, Intel NUCs does not work
| from USB-C power and require external power brick.
| matthewfcarlson wrote:
| I've been thinking about getting a cheap Mac mini and shoving
| inside a custom mechanical keyboard. Basically acting as a slab
| top with ridiculously low power draw for the performance.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| Lots of guys building raspberry pi based (or other similar
| SBCs) 'cyberdecks' some of which have no built in displays.
| Hell they made one of these:
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400/
| mhb wrote:
| Thinkpad X220?
| Sakos wrote:
| > Priced at $2,000, the Spacetop is purpose-built as a business
| tool, with an optimized Arm processor, AOSP (open-source Android)
| operating system, and, of course, the custom headset. But you'll
| need to act fast: Sightful is inviting just 1,000 early adopters
| to purchase the final hardware, enticing them with the
| opportunity to provide feedback on subsequent products.
|
| It sports a Snapdragon 865. I don't see anything here that could
| possibly justify that price. You're basically just paying for
| exclusivity as a beta tester.
| prox wrote:
| Android makes it a hard pass for me. Give a me a decent Linux
| and I will give it a look.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| i'm not sure, other than the battery solution that you
| couldn't get this through nreal glasses and a raspberry pi
| 400.
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