[HN Gopher] StableStudio, an open-source release of DreamStudio
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       StableStudio, an open-source release of DreamStudio
        
       Author : jacooper
       Score  : 206 points
       Date   : 2023-05-17 14:21 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (stability.ai)
 (TXT) w3m dump (stability.ai)
        
       | stevedekorte wrote:
       | Can it be used via an API?
        
         | weird-eye-issue wrote:
         | Did you miss the large API link in the header?
        
           | xu_ituairo wrote:
           | Unkind response, and the API link goes to info about
           | Stability's API, not info about an API for interacting with
           | the StableStudio app.
        
             | weird-eye-issue wrote:
             | You don't use APIs to interact with apps. Apps use APIs to
             | do actions.
        
         | thot_experiment wrote:
         | If you want to use stable diffusion t2i and i2i _today_ via an
         | self-hosted api it 's very easy to do so with auto1111, just
         | click the api link at the bottom of the gradio app and there's
         | extensive documentation on the endpoints.
        
         | nickthegreek wrote:
         | I think it can only use other APIs itself. Looks like they want
         | to make it work with a1111's api and they will ship a plugin
         | that talks to stability's pay api.
        
       | Eduard wrote:
       | So StableStudio is just a plugin-extendable user interface for
       | interacting with an image generation model (e.g. via queries
       | against some opaque remote endpoint) , but does not provide the
       | actual image generation model?
       | 
       | So the actually interesting meat is not part of the offer?
        
         | hafriedlander wrote:
         | Don't discount the value (or difficulty) of a great user
         | interface
         | 
         | There are multiple servers that provide the backend "meat"
         | already: gyre.ai (my personal project); Automatic1111 webui;
         | InvokeAI; plus all the hosted APIs to name just a few.
         | 
         | There are no UI interfaces I'd consider great. I think Flying
         | Dog aistudio[1] is the best (although I'm biased), but still
         | early days. The UI part of WebUI is ... functional(ish).
         | 
         | DreamStudio / StableStudio is super basic in capability at the
         | moment, but it's a space with tons of room for improvement.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcGlA38M52M
         | 
         | (Edit: markdown doesn't work here)
        
       | akiselev wrote:
       | Getting to the meat of the release (from their github [1]):
       | 
       |  _> What 's the difference between StableStudio and DreamStudio?_
       | Not much! There are a few tweaks we made to make the project more
       | community-friendly:         - We removed DreamStudio-specific
       | branding.         - All "over-the-wire" API calls have been
       | replaced by a plugin system which allows you to easily swap out
       | the back-end.             - On release, we'll only be providing a
       | plugin for the Stability API, but with a little bit of
       | TypeScript, you can create your own.         - We removed
       | Stability-specific account features such as billing, API key
       | management, etc.             - These features are still available
       | at DreamStudio's account page.
       | 
       | Doesn't look like any of their models are getting open sourced
       | alongside the app but they're making it possible to swap out the
       | image generation backend using plugins
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/Stability-AI/StableStudio
        
         | darknavi wrote:
         | This is still really nifty.
         | 
         | > All "over-the-wire" API calls have been replaced by a plugin
         | system which allows you to easily swap out the back-end.
        
         | connerruhl wrote:
         | The models will be open-sourced too!
         | 
         | They aren't quite ready yet...
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/EMostaque/status/1641795867740086272
        
           | make3 wrote:
           | very cool
        
           | RobotToaster wrote:
           | They claim their other models are "open source" too, but
           | their licence violates several points of the open source
           | definition.
        
           | orra wrote:
           | The claim that Stable Diffusion XL will be open sourced, has
           | to be taken with a pinch of salt.
           | 
           | Stability AI already claim Stable Diffusion (non-XL) is an
           | "Open Source Model"[1]. It's not. The code is open source but
           | the model is proprietary.
           | 
           | [1] https://stability.ai/
        
             | hafriedlander wrote:
             | Model weights can't really be described as source code
             | though. The equivalence isn't exact, but I'd describe the
             | weights more as the compiled binary, with the training data
             | & schedule being the source (which is sort of under an open
             | source license, with the complication of LAION's "it's just
             | links"). The fact it costs $1 million to "compile" isn't
             | relevant.
             | 
             | This isn't to defend Stability particularly though -
             | they've been getting increasing slow and restrained in
             | their model releases. Charitably because they're attracting
             | a lot of heat from political and anti-AI aligned groups.
             | Uncharitably because they've taken a lot of funding now.
             | 
             | (Edit: typo)
        
               | orra wrote:
               | > Model weights can't really be described as source code
               | though. The equivalence isn't exact, but I'd describe the
               | weights more as the compiled binary, with the training
               | data & schedule being the source
               | 
               | I think this is a really interesting discussion! I see
               | where you're coming from, but I'm minded to disagree in
               | part.
               | 
               | For one, I think it's possible to release model weights
               | under a liberal licence, yet train on proprietary data.
               | (ChatGPT is trained on oodles of proprietary data, but
               | that doesn't limit what OpenAI do with the model).
               | Normally, obviously, the binary is a derivative work of
               | the source.
               | 
               | Also, the GPL defines source code as 'the preferred form
               | for modification'. I don't disagree that model weights
               | are a black box. But we've seen loads of fine tuning of
               | LLaMA, so we don't always need to train models from
               | scratch.
               | 
               | Ideally, of course, having both unencumbered training
               | data and model weights would be perfect. But in the
               | interim, given I don't have that million dollars, I'll
               | settle for the latter.
        
               | hafriedlander wrote:
               | Yeah, neither view is a perfect fit. Another example is
               | vision transformer backbones, where a common generic base
               | weight is used to fine-tune all sorts of different
               | processes (segmentation, image to text, etc). The
               | terminology (and licenses) haven't really kept up.
               | 
               | A properly unencumbered model would be my preference too.
               | The community generally seems a bit laissez-faire with
               | license compliance though, so the restrictions currently
               | don't generate much push back. (Plus it's not totally
               | clear that you can copyright model weights at all, given
               | they're the output of an automatic process).
        
             | simonw wrote:
             | > The code is open source but the model is proprietary.
             | 
             | Are you saying that because the Open RAIL M license doesn't
             | conform to the OSI definition of "open source"?
             | 
             | I agree that it's not "open source", but I don't think that
             | means it's "proprietary".
        
               | orra wrote:
               | Yes, the OpenRAIL licences are _deliberately_ not open
               | source. Being open source or not is binary, and
               | proprietary is the antithesis of open source.
               | 
               | There are of course additional ways to describe specific
               | proprietary things, like distributable in this case.
               | Distributable but non-free, because the software license
               | is morally judgemental, and limits 'fields of endeavour'.
        
               | simonw wrote:
               | I'm with you on "not open source", but I don't think
               | "proprietary" works as the opposite of "open source"
               | here.
               | 
               | The dictionary definition of "proprietary" tends towards
               | "one that possesses, owns, or holds exclusive right to
               | something" - that doesn't quite fit here, because models
               | licensed under OpenRAIL aren't exclusively restricted to
               | their owners.
               | 
               | They have terms of how they can used that are more
               | restrictive than open source licenses, but they don't
               | enforce "exclusive" usage by their owners.
        
               | jacooper wrote:
               | Source available is the fitting term here.
        
       | lxe wrote:
       | No local inference support as of yet at least.
       | Here are a few things we'd be excited to support...
       | Local inference through WebGPU             Local inference
       | through stable-diffusion-webui             Desktop installation
       | ControlNet tools             Tell us what you want to see!
        
         | SquareWheel wrote:
         | Doesn't that just mean that local inference runs on the CPU?
        
         | hafriedlander wrote:
         | Since I re-implement the Stability APIs with gyre.ai, it should
         | "just work" for a local inference option.
         | 
         | I haven't tested though, and the API spec has lots of under-
         | specified bits, so could be some stuff I need to tidy up.
         | 
         | (Alternatively, despite the post content, in the github repo
         | there is already a webui plugin, no idea of current state).
        
       | jonplackett wrote:
       | I'd rather them focus on getting their hosted solution/api on par
       | with Automatic. It needs control net, it needs seamless images.
       | And all the other goodies that are now pretty standard.
       | 
       | I like a hosted solution. Can we just make it much better please?
       | If I am paying you to host a service I don't want to also have to
       | go an give my labour to create the software. That's why I wanted
       | a hosted service in the first place.
        
         | naillo wrote:
         | People keep hyping this automatic UI but having tried it it's
         | honestly so awful. Can't believe people are saying it's better
         | than dreamstudio
        
           | CuriouslyC wrote:
           | The UI is awful, the functionality is not.
        
           | nickthegreek wrote:
           | For serious generation control, nothing else comes remotely
           | close. It is the most impressive github project I have every
           | installed tbh. The flexibility of the system is unmatched in
           | the image gen space. It feels like I am back in the 90s.
        
       | phonescreen_man wrote:
       | Will this become more popular than automatic1111 webUI ?
        
         | yankoff wrote:
         | I wouldn't bet on it. Automatic1111 already has a strong
         | community and growing ecosystem. Stability.ai would have to try
         | really hard and offer something significant to win people over.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | nickthegreek wrote:
         | Looks like they are trying to make it worth with a1111.
         | Here are a few things we'd be excited to support...
         | Local inference through WebGPU        Local inference through
         | stable-diffusion-webui        Desktop installation
         | ControlNet tools
        
         | asynchronous wrote:
         | Very curious to this as well, I'd imagine not unless something
         | dramatic happens as Automatic is the gathering storm of public
         | support and interest.
        
       | dathos wrote:
       | Kudos to Stability for focussing on open source when "Open"ai is
       | trying to dig a moat around their castle.
        
         | ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
         | If it's legit. Based on some of the earlier comments, it seems
         | like this claim might be bullshit.
        
       | bitL wrote:
       | How is Stability AI going to make money? What they provide is
       | super cool and VCs are into it but at some point they need to
       | start giving them returns. Is the plan to get acquired?
        
         | rm999 wrote:
         | Their business plan is to build custom models for
         | clients/companies who want to own models built on their own
         | data. No comment on the viability of such a business model.
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/EMostaque/status/1649152422634221593
        
         | MacsHeadroom wrote:
         | They're a B2B finetuning and fully managed model solution. Open
         | Source is free marketing for them.
        
           | make3 wrote:
           | I wonder if they will merge with Huggingface
        
           | choxi wrote:
           | That's some expensive free marketing
        
             | MacsHeadroom wrote:
             | >That's some expensive free marketing
             | 
             | No, it's free.
             | 
             | They need to make the models already in order to sell them
             | as managed models.
             | 
             | Giving them away costs nothing once they're made.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | naillo wrote:
             | Stable diffusion cost only 1 million, that's like 5
             | marketing people for SF salaries. Not sure they'd achieve
             | better results than SD got them.
        
               | ShamelessC wrote:
               | Citation needed? That seems incredibly low. Is it
               | considering the cost of paying researchers?
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | skybrian wrote:
         | You can buy credits to generate images using DreamStudio. In
         | theory, this seems more convenient than running software
         | locally. But last I checked, their image quality wasn't all
         | that interesting compared to MidJourney, so I stopped using it.
         | 
         | The Discord-based UI for MidJourney is clunky and unreliable,
         | and waiting for images to generate is annoying. Image quality
         | has improved quite a bit, but it's no better at following
         | instructions. So it seems like there's an opening for a
         | competitor, but the competition would need to actually be
         | better.
        
         | nomagicbullet wrote:
         | Some ideas:
         | 
         | AI platform - They could charge a subscription fee for access
         | to premium features on its open-source StableStudio platform.
         | 
         | Consulting services - They could charge businesses for its AI
         | and machine learning consulting services on a per-project basis
         | or on a retainer basis.
         | 
         | Acquisition - A larger company with more resources could
         | acquire Stability AI to scale its operations and reach a wider
         | audience.
        
           | 10xDev wrote:
           | When even users are recommending a subscription service,
           | that's when you know we have become brainwashed into thinking
           | it's a healthy or required practice.
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | they don't sell an API? i m sure they could bring a lot of
         | customers to a computing provider
        
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       (page generated 2023-05-17 23:01 UTC)