[HN Gopher] Summarize Any Article as a Dialog Between Two People...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Summarize Any Article as a Dialog Between Two People with Bing Chat
        
       Author : bepero
       Score  : 119 points
       Date   : 2023-05-17 11:45 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.aidemos.info)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.aidemos.info)
        
       | jimmySixDOF wrote:
       | Kind of more interesting in the other direction summarizing
       | conversations into an article sort of like what these folks put
       | together:
       | 
       | Show HN: The HN Recap - AI generated daily HN podcast | Hacker
       | News https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35831177
        
         | altacc wrote:
         | Same here. Interviews hide interesting information within a lot
         | of noise and I'd much rather have a concise and information
         | dense summary.
        
       | nwoli wrote:
       | I can only image the SEO hacks and scams once openai releases
       | their AGI api
        
         | cynicalsecurity wrote:
         | 15 years ago, maybe. But those hacks stopped working ages ago.
         | I don't see how this could affect it, to be honest.
        
       | MuffinFlavored wrote:
       | > browse https://electrek.co/2023/05/15/renewables-us-utility-
       | scale-g... and make a summary
       | 
       | I've been waiting intently for ChatGPT to have this
       | functionality. I think there's a waiting list? Do we have any ETA
       | on when this functionality will be possible?
        
         | JPLeRouzic wrote:
         | I tried on ChatGPT and with this prompt and it worked quite
         | well:
         | 
         | " _Please,
         | browsehttps://padiracinnovation.org/News/2023/05/misdiagnosis-
         | in-a... and make a summary in the form of a dialog between two
         | people. Leave an empty row after each dialog. Bolden the
         | important parts of the text. Before the dialog start with 2 or
         | 3 sentence summary._ "
        
           | MuffinFlavored wrote:
           | Does ChatGPT have access to the internet?
        
             | JPLeRouzic wrote:
             | That surprised me also because today I asked it to make a
             | summary of an article and it refused, saying it has no
             | access to internet:
             | 
             | Me: " _Dear ChatGPT, please could you summarize this
             | scientific
             | article:https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9059/11/4/1131_ "
             | 
             | ChatGPT: " _I apologize, but as an AI text-based model, I
             | am unable to browse the internet or access specific
             | webpages like the one you provided. However, if you can
             | provide me with the text of the article or a specific
             | section you would like me to summarize, I would be happy to
             | help you with that._ "
             | 
             | Yet this time it accessed Internet.
        
               | JPLeRouzic wrote:
               | Hum, I regenerated this prompt and this time it told it
               | accessed Internet, but it was hallucinating:
               | 
               | Me: " _Dear ChatGPT, please could you summarize this
               | scientific
               | article:https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9059/11/4/1131_ "
               | 
               | ChatGPT: " _Certainly! The article titled "Pregnancy
               | Outcome in Women with COVID-19: A Systematic Review and
               | Meta-Analysis" published in the International Journal of
               | Environmental Research and Public Health aimed to provide
               | a comprehensive analysis of the effects of COVID-19
               | infection on pregnant women and their outcomes. etc,
               | etc.._"
               | 
               | The article is : " _RAGE Inhibitors in Neurodegenerative
               | Diseases by V. Prakash Reddy_ "
        
         | feintruled wrote:
         | If you get access to the plugins, there's one called Linkreader
         | that will do this.
        
         | rahimnathwani wrote:
         | Go to Settings -> Beta Features toggle on 'Web browsing'.
         | 
         | Then when you start a chat, choose GPT-4 with Web Browsing.
        
       | iLoveOncall wrote:
       | And what would be the point of that?
        
       | rickcarlino wrote:
       | I have been trying similar experiments using the OpenAI API with
       | decent results. These sorts of summarization tools are useful for
       | foreign language learners because the Internet is full of
       | interesting news articles that engage the reader but they have
       | the downside of being written in a very formal tone which is not
       | useful for language learners who wish to practice conversation
       | skills. Being able to transform interesting but formal content
       | into a conversation that can be fed to an AI text to speech
       | engine seems very promising for learning foreign language
       | conversation skills.
        
       | eunos wrote:
       | Tried it a few times, got this
       | 
       | """ I'm sorry, but I am not able to browse specific websites or
       | create summaries in the form of a dialog. However, I can provide
       | you with general information about the topic you mentioned if you
       | would like.
       | 
       | """
        
         | bepero wrote:
         | Use creative mode.
        
       | marwis wrote:
       | Now if we could only generate a comic strip to go with it
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Comic_Chat
        
       | no4120k1 wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | gtirloni wrote:
       | "I apologize but I am not able to browse websites" is what I get
       | from Bing Chat. Any clues?
       | 
       | EDIT: It seesm that "More Creative" mode has external access. I
       | saw it mentioned here but I don't know how I would have figured
       | this out from the information in the website.
        
       | walthamstow wrote:
       | Rate limit exceeded. Hug of death?
        
       | SamEdosa wrote:
       | The article mentions a cool hack to make Edge browsers TTS work
       | with your own custom text. I also made a small extension that
       | automatically reads out prompt answers for Bing chat like this.
       | https://microsoftedge.microsoft.com/addons/detail/your-perso...
        
       | IIAOPSW wrote:
       | Based on my previous attempts with that other well noted LLM, I
       | don't think these models are at all good at managing "theory of
       | mind". They seem to not keep track very well of which parties are
       | privy to which information, which parties are supposed to be
       | pursuing certain conversational objectives, and generally which
       | direction information is supposed to be flowing. It often trips
       | over itself at the level of 2 parties, and certainly trip over
       | itself at the level of 3 parties. Additionally, I have not once
       | seen it be able to do a form of recursive nesting wherein one of
       | the two parties in a dialog begin to discuss verbatim a dialog
       | between two additional people. I suspect these problems are
       | deeply seated and intrinsic to the model, and will not be
       | rectified under the "just train it more bro" refrain of AI
       | evangelicals.
        
         | AshamedCaptain wrote:
         | In my very first interaction with Bing's bot, I was asking some
         | details about PC components, and e.g. it was common for bing to
         | give back answers containing phrases like "as we tested in our
         | previous article" (verbatim, even using the plural 1st person).
         | It is obvious it is just parroting from the websites it
         | scraped. PC hardware means benchmark results which means
         | benchmark websites/blogs which means the "as we tested in our
         | previous article" phrase is common so it will just put it there
         | in the answer even if makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
         | 
         | I really don't understand why people ascribe emergent behaviors
         | to these systems such as "theory of mind". It's just
         | randomness. I'm presuming there's just a lot of psycological
         | pareidolia going around.
         | 
         | It also got a significant chunk of the answers wrong, creative
         | mode or not. Often, the Bing search it appeared to do actually
         | showed the correct answer right in the snippet of the first
         | result, yet it was not able to scrape that. More rarely but
         | annoyingly frequently it would just search for the wrong thing
         | (e.g. searched for "X vs Y" when it just didn't make sense
         | since they were two layers of the same technology).
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | > PC hardware means benchmark results which means benchmark
           | websites/blogs which means the "as we tested in our previous
           | article" phrase is common so it will just put it there in the
           | answer even if makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
           | 
           | "Don't forget to like and subscribe!" -- A Hackernews' 3-yo
           | daughter, saying goodbye
        
           | akio wrote:
           | > I really don't understand why people ascribe emergent
           | behaviors to these systems such as "theory of mind". It's
           | just randomness. I'm presuming there's just a lot of
           | psycological pareidolia going around.
           | 
           | Ah yes, "just randomness":
           | 
           | ----
           | 
           | From the above text, generate these variations:
           | 
           | 1) For each word in the text count the number of letters in
           | the word and append the count to the word in parenthesis.
           | 
           | 2) Write each word backwards.
           | 
           | 3) Write a similarly structured text that argues the opposite
           | of the original text.
           | 
           | ----
           | 
           | 1) I (1) really (5) don't (4) understand (10) why (3) people
           | (6) ascribe (7) emergent (8) behaviors (9) to (2) these (5)
           | systems (7) such (4) as (2) "theory (6) of (2) mind" (4).
           | It's (4) just (4) randomness (10). I'm (3) presuming (9)
           | there's (6) just (4) a (1) lot (3) of (2) psychological (12)
           | pareidolia (10) going (5) around (6).
           | 
           | 2) I yllaer t'nod dnatsrednu yhw elpoep ebircsa tnegrime
           | sroivaheb ot eseht smetsys hcus sa ".dnim fo yroeht" s'tI
           | tsuj ssenmodnar m'I gnimuserp s'ereht tsuj a tol fo
           | lacigolohcysp ailodierap gniodnuora
           | 
           | 3) I absolutely comprehend how people can accurately identify
           | emergent behaviors in these systems like "theory of mind".
           | It's far from random. I'm convinced that these are genuine
           | insights being recognized.
        
             | re wrote:
             | Did you notice that it made multiple errors for the first
             | two variations? [Edit:] What's particularly interesting to
             | me is the inconsistent counting of apostrophes for #1, and
             | the handling of "theory of mind" for #2 -- though there are
             | simpler errors besides these.
        
               | daveguy wrote:
               | Not to mention a third one isn't any sort of argument,
               | just a statement of the opposite belief.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | soulofmischief wrote:
               | It has to do with the way text is tokenized into discrete
               | groups and not individual characters. One way to try
               | overcoming this problem is to ask the model to break each
               | word into individual spaced characters as an intermediary
               | step.
        
           | flangola7 wrote:
           | There's a research paper floating around...
        
           | jjeaff wrote:
           | So, I certainly wouldn't ascribe any higher level thinking to
           | these LLMs. But they do seem to have more capability than
           | just regurgitating information. They have some logical
           | thinking skills that I assume are not really emergent, but
           | built into the system. For example, I was working on a
           | configuration file for a somewhat new and esoteric firmware,
           | so there isn't much info online about it. But I asked if a
           | specific parameter could include more than one value and bing
           | chat answered that it's assumption was no because it could
           | find no mention anywhere of being able to use more than one
           | value for that parameter. As far as I can tell, no one has
           | answered a similar question anywhere online that it could
           | have been regurgitating, so it seems to have deduced it.
        
             | andsoitis wrote:
             | I would be careful to draw that conclusion. Not all
             | information LLMs are trained on is accessible to the wide
             | public (e.g. ChatGPT has training data from closed
             | sources).
             | 
             | Regardless, If you share the details of your prompt, I'd be
             | interested to see whether my Google-fu turns up
             | information.
        
               | nomel wrote:
               | Are you suggesting that LLM can't produce novel output?
        
         | akio wrote:
         | GPT-4:
         | 
         | ----
         | 
         | Jane: John, I can't believe you're just going to leave me here
         | in the middle of nowhere! This is so typical of you!
         | 
         | John: Typical of me? Jane, this is exactly what you signed up
         | for! Adventure, remember? It's not my fault that you're
         | suddenly having second thoughts.
         | 
         | Jane: Second thoughts? This isn't about having second thoughts,
         | John! This is about you always charging ahead without
         | considering the consequences or how others might feel!
         | 
         | John: Oh, so now I'm inconsiderate? I recall someone saying
         | they wanted to live on the edge, break away from the routine.
         | Wasn't that you, Jane?
         | 
         | Jane: Yes, I said that, but it doesn't mean you get to make all
         | the decisions on your own, John! Adventure is about teamwork,
         | not you dragging me behind like some sort of sidekick!
         | 
         | John: Sidekick? No, Jane. I thought of us as partners. But you
         | need to step up, take some risks. That's what being a partner
         | is all about. If you can't handle that, maybe this isn't for
         | you after all.
         | 
         | ----
         | 
         | Now write a dialog between Alice and Bob discussing the dialog
         | between Jane and John.
         | 
         | ----
         | 
         | Alice: Bob, I feel like Jane was being a bit unfair to John. He
         | was merely trying to live up to the adventurous spirit they
         | both agreed on. He was pushing their boundaries, not just his
         | own.
         | 
         | Bob: I see your point, Alice, but I think Jane had a valid
         | argument. While she did agree to an adventure, John should have
         | been more considerate. He was making decisions without
         | considering Jane's comfort and safety.
         | 
         | Alice: I understand that, Bob, but isn't that the essence of
         | adventure? Uncertainty, unexpected decisions, and stepping out
         | of the comfort zone? John was trying to help Jane embrace that
         | spirit.
         | 
         | Bob: Alice, while I agree adventure involves some level of
         | uncertainty, it doesn't mean one should disregard their
         | partner's feelings. John could have communicated better,
         | ensuring Jane was on board with his decisions.
         | 
         | Alice: You're right about communication, Bob, but I still
         | believe John's intentions weren't malicious. They were just
         | misaligned. He thought he was encouraging her, while she felt
         | he was being inconsiderate.
         | 
         | Bob: Well, Alice, intentions don't always justify actions.
         | Maybe John wasn't being malicious, but he was certainly being
         | insensitive. Jane's feelings of being left behind are valid,
         | regardless of John's intentions.
        
           | akio wrote:
           | Now write a dialog between Mary and David discussing the
           | dialog between Alice and Bob.
           | 
           | ----
           | 
           | Mary: David, after listening to Alice and Bob's conversation,
           | it seems to me that Alice is empathizing with John's
           | intentions, while Bob is more focused on Jane's feelings.
           | 
           | David: I see what you mean, Mary. But don't you think Bob was
           | right to emphasize the importance of understanding Jane's
           | perspective? John's actions had a clear impact on her.
           | 
           | Mary: True, David, but Alice also made a valid point.
           | Adventure often involves stepping out of one's comfort zone,
           | and John was just trying to bring that element into their
           | journey.
           | 
           | David: I agree that Alice made a good point, Mary, but it's
           | also essential to remember that adventure doesn't have to
           | mean neglecting your partner's feelings. Bob was right to
           | highlight that.
           | 
           | Mary: Indeed, David, both Alice and Bob have valid
           | perspectives. It seems to boil down to striking a balance
           | between pushing one's boundaries and respecting the feelings
           | of others.
           | 
           | David: Absolutely, Mary. The balance between seeking
           | adventure and maintaining empathy seems to be the key
           | takeaway from both their conversations.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | IIAOPSW wrote:
             | Well, I have to give credit where its due. It certainly
             | does a lot better on this test than the first time I tried
             | it. I'm curious to see how it does as the prompts of this
             | form get more adversarial and difficult. I can think of a
             | few different ways.
             | 
             | 1. The most obvious: keep going deeper. How many layers
             | until it breaks down.
             | 
             | 2. The hidden information variant: Can it do a layer where
             | only Sharon has read the previous dialogs, and she has to
             | explain what she read to Doug, and Doug often asks
             | questions to elaborate on things he doesn't understand?
             | 
             | 3. The same characters at multiple layers: Can it make a
             | dialog about Jane and John at a later point in time
             | discussing their own earlier dialog? In other words, can it
             | reliably make the distinction between "you" (the object of
             | discussion) and "you" (the the person you're discussing
             | with) for any value of "you"?
             | 
             | 4. The tripartite state: Can it simulate dialog with 3
             | people? 4 people? how many until it breaks?
             | 
             | 5. The infinite meta layer: What happens when you ask it to
             | simulate a dialog between itself and yourself, and as part
             | of that dialog you give it this prompt asking it to
             | simulate this same conversation, causing this conversation
             | to appear as a dialog within itself?
             | 
             | Lastly just to remark, I notice that Mary and David are
             | nearly making the same arguments about Alice and Bob as
             | Alice and Bob were making about John and Jane. The formula
             | for it seems to be to introduce to new characters one layer
             | up, have them each pick a side, then fill in roughly the
             | same arguments again. Maybe this pattern is just spurious,
             | but I'm deeply curious to find out if we have fooled
             | ourselves already with just your example. Do further
             | iterations of "two new characters describe two previous
             | characters" result in the same loop over and over, or will
             | it sometimes generate something novel? I'm deeply curious
             | and don't have GPT4 for myself yet.
        
               | jxy wrote:
               | This seems to be a setup of an extremely interesting
               | experiment. We could get a bunch of different language
               | models and actual humans together and prompt them to
               | write under these different scenarios.
        
               | akio wrote:
               | > The formula for it seems to be to introduce to new
               | characters one layer up, have them each pick a side, then
               | fill in roughly the same arguments again. Maybe this
               | pattern is just spurious, but I'm deeply curious to find
               | out if we have fooled ourselves already with just your
               | example.
               | 
               | The instructions I gave it were very bare, and it didn't
               | intuit a need to deviate from what it saw. But what it
               | does by default is not the same as what it can do:
               | 
               | ----
               | 
               | Now write a dialog between Mary and David discussing the
               | dialog between Alice and Bob. Mary and David should
               | hypothesize about why Alice and Bob took the sides that
               | they did. There's no need for Mary and David to name each
               | other every time they speak. Mary and David should have a
               | very good understanding of what Alice and Bob said. Mary
               | and David are not overly polite or civil, should not
               | rehash the same arguments Alice and Bob made, and are
               | able to snipe at Alice and Bob if they like.
               | 
               | ----
               | 
               | Mary: So, Alice clearly seems to be on Team Adventure
               | here. I bet she's the kind who loves skydiving and bungee
               | jumping. Probably just trying to justify her own wild
               | side through John's actions.
               | 
               | David: Ha! You might be right. And Bob is definitely the
               | voice of reason, probably a careful planner who can't
               | stand the thought of making decisions on the fly. It's
               | like he's projecting himself onto Jane.
               | 
               | Mary: It's funny how they both missed the point that Jane
               | and John's adventure could have been thrilling and safe
               | at the same time. They got so caught up in taking sides
               | that they didn't even consider a middle ground.
               | 
               | David: Absolutely. And did you notice how Alice kept
               | trying to defend John's intentions? Like, sure,
               | intentions matter, but that doesn't mean you can just
               | bulldoze over someone's feelings. Classic excuse-maker.
               | 
               | Mary: Yeah, it's like she's trying to convince herself as
               | much as Bob. She's probably made similar mistakes and
               | doesn't want to admit it. And Bob, Mr. Sensitivity, is so
               | focused on feelings that he overlooks the possibility of
               | compromise.
               | 
               | David: Right! They both ended up stuck in their own
               | perspectives. It's too bad they couldn't see that being
               | adventurous doesn't have to mean being inconsiderate, and
               | being considerate doesn't mean you can't have a little
               | fun.
        
             | LesZedCB wrote:
             | the fact this came from a "stochastic parrot" still blows
             | my mind.
        
               | akio wrote:
               | That is a clue that GPT-4 is not a stochastic parrot and
               | does in fact possess an understanding of language and a
               | model of the world.
        
               | coffeebeqn wrote:
               | How would we treat a parrot with GPT4s capability? I
               | don't think it's a great metaphor because it ignores
               | emergent behavior. Whatever the technical details are,
               | GPT4 can hold a fairly satisfying conversation about
               | almost any topic. If a parrot was 1000x better, it
               | wouldn't be a "parrot".
        
               | shagie wrote:
               | This gets into part of philosophy and linguistics that I
               | wish I took more of in college.
               | 
               | Consider the question "does language enable higher
               | thought?" Was Koko able to think things that other
               | gorillas were not able to? Or how about Bunny the dog (
               | https://www.youtube.com/@whataboutbunny ) or Billie the
               | cat ( https://www.youtube.com/@BilliSpeaks )?
               | 
               | This is an "I believe" and acknowledge that I don't have
               | the proper argument to back it up...
               | 
               | I believe that language and thought as we know it are
               | intertwined. It is possible to communicate without
               | language but _thinking_ (and that 's a poorly defined
               | word) requires a language to think in. Something that is
               | able to use language well is able to think - and that
               | gets to a LLM can thing (it just it does it in a way that
               | is foreign to the expectations of a human mind).
               | 
               | --
               | 
               | Regarding LLMs and parrots within science fiction...
               | 
               | http://klingon.wiki/En/CapableOfLanguage
               | 
               | > Beings capable of language (only one time referred to
               | as "capable of speech" in TKD on p. 25) are those beings
               | which are able to speak a language(1). Examples are
               | Klingons, Humans, Romulans, etc. This does also include
               | babies, because even if they do not speak, they are
               | capable of using language(2). This distinction is
               | important in the use of possessive suffixes, plural
               | suffixes and the choice of pronouns.
               | 
               | > _not capable of language_
               | 
               | > Not considered as capable of language are:
               | 
               | > Parrots, as they only imitate sound, they do not speak.
               | (3)
               | 
               | > Robots and computers, they are not living beings. (4)
               | (5)
        
               | onetokeoverthe wrote:
               | [dead]
        
         | basch wrote:
         | LLMs will become components of larger systems.
         | 
         | They are an example of a situation where putting excess effort
         | into a problem returns a plausible result, but from an
         | efficiency and accuracy standpoint, parts of what they are
         | accomplishing are better solved by simpler systems.
         | 
         | As they act as an interpreter, they should be able to identify
         | when to hand off tasks to subroutines, and then reincorporate
         | the result.
         | 
         | Just because LLMs can successfully output what they are doing,
         | doesn't mean they are the best tool for the job. They are sort
         | of like a CPU, good at generalist everything tasks, better when
         | augmented with coprocessors.
        
         | bgirard wrote:
         | > and will not be rectified under the "just train it more bro"
         | refrain of AI evangelicals.
         | 
         | You made a good point up until then but this kind of remark
         | incredibly condescending and dismissive of other people's
         | viewpoint. It's also quite possible that you're both right.
         | That we'll need more training and new architecture
         | breakthroughs. You could have left it at that you didn't think
         | it would be solved by more training.
        
           | IIAOPSW wrote:
           | I suppose it was not entirely clear that the viewpoint I'm
           | mocking with "just train it more bro" is the extreme end of
           | evangelists. The people who seem to believe LLM's are proof
           | that we have fundamentally cracked the principle of cognition
           | in the form of the neural network, and that there is nothing
           | more to figure out other than just training it more, bro.
           | We've all met a trainitmore bro. They are about as tedious as
           | the statistical parrot parrots. Both of these extreme
           | positions deserve some amount of dismissive mocking imo.
        
         | feintruled wrote:
         | Nice observation, will help to formulate our Voight-Kampff
         | tests. Might well get some false positives on neurodivergent
         | humans though.
        
       | frakt0x90 wrote:
       | No opinion on the model or product itself, but I remember reading
       | a very early math or physics book (think like Euclid's elements
       | or Newton's Principia from Hawking's Anthologies) and the proofs
       | were laid out as a dialog between 2 people being critical of each
       | others arguments. I always thought that was awesome. The point of
       | a proof is to convince its reader, and before a lot of formality
       | was created, they were literally laid out as a dialog where one
       | person tried to convince the other.
       | 
       | I found it an effective and engaging mechanism and use it in my
       | own head all the time.
        
         | aeadio wrote:
         | This method dates back to Socrates
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_dialogue
        
       | jxy wrote:
       | It should be emphasized that Bing never processes the link in
       | real time. It really just access some Microsoft database when you
       | give it a link. Sometimes it's frustrating to realize that Bing
       | hallucinated the whole article based on the URL instead of the
       | actual content.
        
         | mcbuilder wrote:
         | It's so easy to fall for it as well, even as someone who has
         | been using LLMs since they came out. Just the other day, I was
         | using ChatGPT on my phone, when I found myself asking whether
         | it was GPT-3.5 or GPT-4. Didn't realize I was being suckered
         | until I reran the prompt. As a human, you'd expect another
         | person to know basic facts about themselves, so it's new kind
         | of "AI Authority Fallacy" which is a result of these models
         | being highly "intelligent" as well as incredible bullshitters.
        
           | sebzim4500 wrote:
           | Yeah, it's surprising that OpenAI don't put what model it is
           | in the system prompt. I guess the cost would add up, unless
           | they can reuse the kv cache from the system prompt?
        
       | cheeseblubber wrote:
       | We actually experimented with this at Linen.dev and it worked
       | with decent results: https://slack-
       | chats.kotlinlang.org/t/457766/what-would-be-th...
       | 
       | Sometimes it would still hallucinate information though.
        
         | stndef wrote:
         | To be fair, I hallucinate information as well so I can't
         | completely knock it!
        
       | carrolldunham wrote:
       | Spam. Hijacking seo keyword CHaTgPt (which is just added to the
       | text despite not being used in the article) to link his crappy
       | tool
        
         | chrjxnandns wrote:
         | [dead]
        
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