[HN Gopher] What were the worst jobs for poor Romans in Ancient ...
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What were the worst jobs for poor Romans in Ancient Rome?
Author : BerislavLopac
Score : 50 points
Date : 2023-05-15 12:28 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.quora.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.quora.com)
| BirAdam wrote:
| Mining and military service are definitely worse than groveling,
| especially since Rome did have the bread line.
|
| The military definitely had a pay advantage (and it got better
| over time in the imperial era, so much so that it began to
| bankrupt the state), but Rome was always killing people, either
| Romans or barbarians. The warfare was absolutely horrifying by
| modern standards, and I imagine that even the best warriors of
| Rome would have had severe PTSD. Add in practices like decimation
| and the life of a warrior could be shorter than any other.
|
| As for mining, most miners were slaves. Worse, many slaves were
| captured and conquered people. Rome had slaves that were treated
| well too (accountants, physicians, potters, bakers, barbers, and
| so on), especially after various reform movements (legal claims
| could be made against slave owners who mistreated slaves, but it
| is not certain just how successful these claims were), but the
| majority performed brutal work in bad conditions (beyond mining,
| many prostitutes were also slaves, and some of the worst parts of
| construction in Rome were done by slaves).
| bragr wrote:
| My understanding from historians answering similar questions
| about ancient Romans is that we really don't know much about the
| average Roman because almost nothing was written down about them
| and even less survives to this day.
| woodruffw wrote:
| It's a little nuanced. We know about some aspects of the
| average Roman citizen's life: the details of their class and
| labor statuses, their political enfranchisement, the effects of
| the Roman economy on their livelihood, urbanization trends
| through the Republic and Empire, etc. We also know a decent
| amount about what they ate, what they wore, etc.
|
| We know many of these things either because they're discussed
| in comparison to an actual subject, or via inference with
| described subjects (i.e. descriptions of the lives of political
| candidates, bureaucrats, soldiers, slaves, and lesser sides of
| noble families).
| RobotToaster wrote:
| Being Vedius Pollio's servant?
| tacker2000 wrote:
| Please dont post quora links. Whilst the questions and answers
| might be interesting, the whole site its just a minefield of ads,
| SEO spam, forced logins, etc...
| karaterobot wrote:
| If the content is interesting, I think it's worth posting. If
| people think the ads and dark patterns make it not worthwhile,
| they should not upvote the post, and just let it sink down off
| the front page.
| Aperocky wrote:
| The complete downfall of quora is surprising tbh.
|
| Trying to cash out before they reached critical point? At one
| point about a decade ago through my spotty memory they are
| pretty on par with reddit in terms of adoption and reputation.
| _-____-_ wrote:
| Quora has fulfilled its purpose of generating training data
| for large language models, by answering the majority of
| questions people have ever thought to search for on the
| premise of "I wonder if anyone's asked this question before."
| Now that ChatGPT has read all the answers, Quora can fade
| into the sunset while ChatGPT regurgitates its answers with
| precision as part of an ad-free conversation.
| ztrww wrote:
| which is a bit sad since the majority of answers on Quora
| are worse than useless...
| lph wrote:
| Seems like only a matter of time before LLM-powered search
| is also injecting ads. "Ancient Romans had a difficult life
| with a variety of unpleasant jobs. But after work, they
| liked to kick back and enjoy all-new garum-flavored
| Doritos!"
| markwkw wrote:
| To me it became unbearable after it became flooded with
| people trying to add content without bringing any actual
| insight. They'd largely reuse existing materials or top
| google/wikipedia results and used certain style that became
| annoying to me (I wonder if others also started noticing the
| 'quora-style' answers)
| Kye wrote:
| I remember asking for the scientific basis for the EPA's
| recommendations on UV exposure. I had this idea an actual
| scientist or someone who's done relevant research might
| answer. All I got were spun versions of the citeless blurb
| on the EPA's website. That was when I knew Quora was dead.
|
| (kind of an aside after this point)
|
| Meanwhile, ChatGPT (via Phind) just keeps giving me answers
| on the efficacy of sunscreen at blocking UV light. Nothing
| on what research went into deciding how much UV is too
| much. I want to know what actually makes UV 11 or UV 5, or
| why UV 2 is considered safe. It's the first time it's been
| 100% useless. I can't seem to get it to stick to the actual
| question no matter how I phrase it.
|
| Maybe it's one of those ass-pull recommendations where no
| one really knows. I know people who sunscreen religiously
| and still got skin cancer, and people who don't get much
| sun who got it.
| balder1991 wrote:
| I feel like all the good people disbanded as that happened.
| I noticed answers became increasingly anecdotes that looked
| like a blog post in the style: "10 years ago I was working
| with my father, when I noticed...". It's been years I
| simply ignore Quora when it shows up in a search cause I k
| ow it will be the same generic garbage as those SEO
| websites.
| heywhatupboys wrote:
| and also has less scholary value than an emo blogpost from a
| 2088 scene girl
| sb618 wrote:
| One thing they don't mention is that the pay for being a
| legionnaire was (as far as I know) quite a bit better than
| average.
| zerr wrote:
| How did rich people keep their wealth? Interesting, they had
| banking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking_in_ancient_Rome
| lifeisstillgood wrote:
| Sometimes those bankers were disrupted by Judeans coming in an
| smashing up the nice open plan lending atriums. Really need the
| firm hand of government to prevent repeat offending
| sslayer wrote:
| You just know at least one person got nailed for it.
| candiddevmike wrote:
| Supposedly
| bjourne wrote:
| Actually the vandalism was from the Galileans. The Judeans
| totally adored their market makers.
| Eumenes wrote:
| The mines of Ancient Spain (modern Andalusia mostly) most
| definitely "employed" the sorriest souls
| gumby wrote:
| Not a terrible job, but uncertain was parasite. Basically you
| were paid to accompany someone and say how good they were. One of
| the few things I remember from high school was translating some
| plays in which a parasite was part of the cast.
|
| (Another thing I remember was the supposed punishment for
| parricide: to be sewn into a sack with a rooster, a cat, and some
| stones, and then be tossed into the Tiber.)
| BirAdam wrote:
| Ancient punishments were insane. Death was usually just a side
| effect of whatever the actual punishment was. Bothered me for
| weeks after reading about that stuff.
| htag wrote:
| One thing, it's ambiguous if they are speaking of only jobs
| inside the city, or any job in the republic/empire. It's also
| ambiguous if this is limited to jobs only performed by free
| individuals. Some things that didn't make the list.
|
| * Free individuals sometimes became Gladiators
|
| * While very clean for ancient standards, their sewage system
| required a lot of manual maintenance.
|
| * We know sailors we subject to scurvy, which suggests they spent
| most of their time on ship and had very poor diets.
|
| * Prostitution was legal.
|
| * Without an understanding of germ theory, anyone dealing with
| very sick or dead individuals could be subject to poor health
| outcomes.
|
| * Lots of work would have been extremely physically taxing by
| today's standards. Lifting heavy things. Farming with hand tools.
| Blacksmithing.
| jcranmer wrote:
| You've omitted the mines, which were a pretty notorious place
| to work, and I'd personally rank it the worst job of the lot.
| My understanding is that the miners were almost all slaves
| because of the poor working conditions.
| antognini wrote:
| People convicted of certain egregious crimes would commonly
| be sentenced to hard labor in the mines.
|
| This was the punishment that astrologers received for
| violating certain regulations around astrology. (Their
| clients were executed.)
| Eumenes wrote:
| People are still working in mines like that today and for a
| long time, I'm guessing.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| Mining was among the worst types of work with very little
| chance of doing it for longer. Which is why it was allmost only
| slaves doing it, like most of the other hard work, which is why
| there allways needed to be new wars to get new slaves to keep
| the system running.
| ztrww wrote:
| I think mines switching to free labor to some degree in the
| imperial period since slaves became more scarce and expensive
| CydeWeys wrote:
| I do think this is the actual answer. Brutally backbreaking
| work (literally breaking rocks with simple tools for 12+
| hours per day every day), in poor conditions, and constantly
| inhaling dust that destroys your lungs to the point that
| you're constantly coughing up black mucus.
|
| Being a rower on a ship was a terrible job too, but at least
| you had fresh air to breathe.
| CydeWeys wrote:
| One particularly unpleasant job (I believe often performed by
| slaves) was making charcoal. More man-hours went into making
| charcoal than went into the actual blacksmithing, as it was so
| coal-intensive. Entire regions were denuded of trees. And then
| of course you had lumberjacks.
|
| Honestly, following around some rich person in Rome sounds
| easier than the hardest manual labor jobs.
| laratied wrote:
| Working with the sewage system is what first came to my mind.
|
| As far as germs that is so modern. Ignaz Semmelweis was
| considered a moron for suggesting that doctors wash their hands
| between handling dead bodies and delivering babies.
|
| He died in 1865 with the establishment believing he was
| basically spreading misinformation.
| vkou wrote:
| Also, are we talking about jobs, or work?
|
| Subsistence farmers worked, but didn't have 'jobs'. A
| blacksmith worked, but might have had a 'job', or, depending on
| how many people were working under him might have been more of
| business operator.
|
| Being in _any_ army sucks, so soldiering wasn 't exactly a
| great 'job', either - although it often provided opportunities
| to rob and enslave other people.
| christkv wrote:
| Legionnaire :)
| bombcar wrote:
| Farming is the big one - if your job sucked too hard you'd just
| go back to being a subsistence farmer like most everyone else.
| explaininjs wrote:
| Was arable land easy to come by for a poor Roman or would you
| be more likely to have a landlord requiring some cut?
| rurp wrote:
| In general no, it wasn't easy for poor folks to get their
| own farm land, and it became harder as time went on.
|
| A plot of land was a common millitary pension; soldiers
| would retire there and work the land after putting in
| enough service time. This worked well while there was
| plenty of decent land in Italy, but became a worse deal
| over time. Once the prime land was taken up soldiers had to
| settle for plots of varying quality far from their
| homeland, which was much less pleasant as you'd expect.
| bombcar wrote:
| The poorest would likely "sign on" to an existing farm as
| a farmhand - the story of the Prodigal Son implies that
| concept was known in antiquity.
| BirAdam wrote:
| Not at all. It was so hard to get land that "land reform"
| was a constant political point.
| baron816 wrote:
| If you've ever wondered what would've happened if Nazi Germany
| had won the war and had become a Thousand Year Reich, Rome is
| basically your answer. Militarism, War, Genocide, Slavery--it's
| all right there.
| kami8845 wrote:
| Here is what GPT-4 has to say on the subject:
|
| ---
|
| In Ancient Rome, the socio-economic divide was significant, and
| many poor Romans had to endure difficult, unpleasant, and
| dangerous jobs to survive. Some of the worst jobs for poor Romans
| during that period were:
|
| Sewer Cleaner (Cloaca Maxima): Sewer cleaners were responsible
| for maintaining and cleaning the sewer systems in Rome. These
| workers had to wade through human waste, animal carcasses, and
| other refuse in the dark, damp, and disease-ridden underground
| passages.
|
| Tanners: Tanners processed animal hides to make leather. This job
| involved soaking hides in vats of urine to remove hair and then
| treating them with a mixture of lime, water, and animal feces.
| Tanners were exposed to foul smells and harmful chemicals, and
| their work often led to skin and respiratory problems.
|
| Fuller: Fullers were responsible for cleaning and bleaching
| woolen garments. They stomped on clothes soaked in a mixture of
| water and human urine, which acted as a natural detergent.
| Fullers were constantly exposed to the strong smell of urine and
| faced a high risk of skin infections due to the ammonia content.
|
| Gladiator: Gladiators were slaves, prisoners of war, or criminals
| who fought in the arena for the entertainment of the Roman
| public. They faced brutal combat, often resulting in severe
| injuries or death. Although some gladiators gained fame and
| fortune, most lived a short and brutal life.
|
| Miner: Roman miners, often slaves or criminals, worked in
| dangerous conditions, extracting valuable metals and minerals
| such as lead, silver, and gold. They faced the constant risk of
| cave-ins, toxic fumes, and lung diseases due to prolonged
| exposure to dust.
|
| Street Cleaner: Street cleaners had to collect and dispose of the
| garbage, waste, and excrement that littered the streets of
| Ancient Rome. This job exposed them to infectious diseases and
| putrid odors.
|
| Litter Bearer: Litter bearers carried wealthy Romans in litters
| (a type of carriage) through the streets. This physically
| demanding job often involved carrying clients up steep hills or
| for long distances under the hot sun.
|
| Agricultural Laborer: Many poor Romans worked as agricultural
| laborers on farms, tending to crops and animals. These workers
| faced long hours in the fields, inadequate shelter, and meager
| food rations.
|
| These jobs highlight the challenging and often hazardous
| conditions experienced by the poor in Ancient Rome, who had to
| endure such occupations to make a living.
| bmarquez wrote:
| The Ancient Romans used a sponge on a stick for washing
| themselves after defecating. I always wondered who was
| responsible for cleaning and replacing those sponges in public
| latrines.
| qingcharles wrote:
| They used the three shells to clean the sponges.
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| amazingly there's a game (nearly) based on that value
| proposition: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/20082/pecunia-
| non-olet-g...
| cgio wrote:
| In Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) the name of the profession
| with the responsibility of applying the sponge was
| sphougkokolarios, sfougokolariis where sfougo is the sponge,
| kolos is what you imagine it to be in context. The term is
| still used metaphorically in modern Greek.
| idlewords wrote:
| "Mining" is rarely the wrong answer for worst job in any
| premodern era. Incredibly taxing physically, dangerous,
| claustrophobic, and with the constant risk of fire and being
| buried alive. The only silver lining for ancient miners was that
| they had little chance of living long enough to experience the
| long-term toxic effects of their vocation.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| It's definitely mining for Rome, mining was done more or less
| exclusively by slaves and life expectancy was short.
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