[HN Gopher] Experiments in Making Cocktail Ice
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Experiments in Making Cocktail Ice
Author : mhb
Score : 159 points
Date : 2023-05-16 13:04 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.alcademics.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.alcademics.com)
| foobarbecue wrote:
| When I was working on an ice climbing robot we spent a lot of
| effort trying to get large blocks of clear ice to test on. The
| thought was that we wanted repeatable experiments. But then we
| realized that perfectly dense water ice is so hard and tough that
| our robot would not be able to get an ice screw into it. So we
| ended up trying to make something more similar to glacial ice. To
| do that we bought a nugget ice machine, filled large aluminum
| bins of that, and then backfilled with water, and had the robot
| climb on those in a walk-in freezer.
|
| https://eos.org/articles/meet-iceworm-nasas-new-ice-climbing...
| aardvarkr wrote:
| That's incredibly cool, thanks for sharing it!
| classified wrote:
| Cocktail ice should be formed like a duck, swimming on the
| beverage.
| psd1 wrote:
| I had a very expensive old-fashioned once where the bartender
| chiseled a sphere of ice out of a block. It took about five
| minutes. The diameter was about 8cm or so.
|
| He created a very spherical sphere. I twizzled it round and
| round but could not detect any eccentricity. Clearance in the
| tumbler was even at all orientations.
|
| A carved duck might be more immediately impressive, but the
| sphere did blow my mind.
|
| It was a very good old-fashioned. I nursed it for 20 minutes -
| it didn't get watery, as they usually do.
| isleyaardvark wrote:
| Spheres have less surface area which reduce the watering down
| of the drink.
|
| Edit: though I would bet that's less of a factor than the
| initial temperature of the ice and the liquor.
| leblancfg wrote:
| Former bartender here. Having nice cocktail ice chunks at home
| isn't as complex as this might make it seem. No need for a clunky
| box in your freezer or costly gizmos.
|
| I keep a travel-sized coffee thermos in my freezer with about 2-3
| inches of water at the bottom. Takes 18-24 hours to create one
| chunk. If you time it right, 90% of the water freezes, and the
| water impurities pool at the bottom - pop out the frozen chunk
| and the result is clear ice. I store 4-5 of these in a zip-top
| bag until I have friends over and serve drinks.
|
| Best to use a thermos with a slight conical interior so it's easy
| to pop out the ice. Makes a nice plug-shaped, clear ice chunk.
| Then refill and restart the process.
| zygy wrote:
| Have a particular one to recommend?
| leblancfg wrote:
| Whatever's cheap and slightly conical - most will do. Worst
| case you let it sit for ~1h so it melts a little.
|
| From 10 seconds of Googling, something like this:
| https://browzefactory.com/products/tumbler-stainless-
| steel-2...
| Jarmsy wrote:
| An even lower equipment option I've had some success with: Just
| use any food container, such as an ice-cream box or tupperware.
| Part fill it and put in the freezer with no lid. It will start
| freezing from the outside in. When it is partly frozen but
| before it goes cloudy, break a hole in the top of the ice to
| allow the trapped liquid inside to escape, and put it back in
| for a few more hours until it is nearly all frozen. This way
| you can get a big mostly clear block with a cloudy bit in the
| middle (you can repeat the break and freeze to get it even
| smaller), which you can cut up and melt off any cloudy bits
| with warm water.
| TrainedMonkey wrote:
| Water expands when it freezes, in my head thermos is an
| extremely rigid structure, how do you stop it from rapturing?
| account42 wrote:
| I'm not sure if your end of the world planning needs to
| include your thermos.
| leblancfg wrote:
| Not an issue. It's only partially filled, less than half-way.
| As it forms, the ice floats and glides up the sides until
| it's like, 1mm higher than where it started.
| GordonS wrote:
| Simply don't fill it to the brim, allowing room for
| expansion.
| a_t48 wrote:
| The thermos is mostly full of compressible air
| angry_moose wrote:
| Only if its completely full. A travel thermos is ~6 inches
| deep and OP said to fill it to 2-3 inches.
| tecleandor wrote:
| I think the idea is leaving it open so it freezes from the
| top down. From what I've read there, the trick of clear ice
| is directional freezing.
|
| I've seen some other ideas like freezing water in a camping
| cooler with its top open.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| That's what I thought the idea was, too.
|
| But then, why aren't my ice-cubes made in the regular
| fridge tray clear? The same principle should apply: they
| should be clear at the top, where the tray is open.
| hollasch wrote:
| Ice in a tray freezes from all sides since it's not
| insulated. And indeed, the ice from your tray is crystal
| clear on the sides, with the cloudy ice at the center of
| the cube.
|
| In an insulated vessel, the sides and bottom remain
| liquid until the frozen portion grows down from the top,
| pushing the cloudy bit to the bottom, which you can then
| just lop off.
| wrs wrote:
| The thermos wall is an insulator, unlike the tray.
| Swizec wrote:
| > how do you stop it from rapturing?
|
| From the post you're replying to: _2 to 3 inches of water at
| the bottom_ ... _expands to fill the thermos_
|
| Air compresses. A lot.
| burnished wrote:
| Well you make sure it isnt baptized.
|
| But also as the ice freezes I believe it becomes more buoyant
| and that rigidity causes the ice to be lifted up when it
| exerts force on the thermos interior.
| fluxic wrote:
| Pun of the year.
| boringg wrote:
| Will be trying this. Thanks for the tip!
| dabluecaboose wrote:
| >If you time it right, 90% of the water freezes, and the water
| impurities pool at the bottom
|
| And even if you don't, worst case you end up with a cloudy end
| on your clear ice that can be easily removed by rubbing it on
| an aluminum sheet pan
| eutectic wrote:
| I'm not sure it will be so easy to get the ice out if you let
| it freeze solid.
| anamexis wrote:
| Well luckily there's an easy solution for that as well:
| letting it sit for awhile.
| leblancfg wrote:
| Or just passing the cloudy bit under hot water. Melts like a
| charm.
| jansan wrote:
| In one method he uses a silicone mold to make a clear ice ball.
| Note that these molds are also available for making four, six and
| 25 ice balls, so this may be a more efficient method than it
| looks, and no wire should be required.
| kualto wrote:
| I always thought the key to getting clear ice was to boil the
| water first so the oxygen goes out of solution.
| jcampbell1 wrote:
| That isn't the issue. The problem is an ice shell initially
| forms, then the water inside the shell needs to expand as it
| freezes but it has no where to expand. This creates internal
| stress and micro fractures and the resulting ice crackles due
| to internal stress. Clear ice requires a directional freeze.
| foobarbecue wrote:
| You might mean air, not oxygen. Air is mostly nitrogen. Water
| ice is 1/3rd oxygen atoms (or about 8/9ths by mass).
|
| Thinking more, molecular oxygen, O2, dissolved in water is a
| thing and it does have better solubility than nitrogen so maybe
| you did mean molecular oxygen.
|
| And yeah, we tried that, putting water in a vacuum chamber and
| pumping out the dissolved air. It didn't seem to make much
| difference.
| samwillis wrote:
| Interestingly freezing hot or boiled water can be quicker due
| to the Mpemba effect.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpemba_effect
| kevinmchugh wrote:
| Faster freezing is bad when you're trying to make clear ice.
| It's also bad to put hot water in your freezer - you're
| bringing the temperature of everything else up and then it
| has to refreeze. That'll damage the quality of whatever food
| is in the freezer.
| brenns10 wrote:
| This site has whole sections on "things that don't work" and
| "things that work, but not that well" based on experiments.
| Here's boiling water first:
|
| https://www.alcademics.com/2017/10/boiled-versus-rested-wate...
|
| (Works somewhat, but not well enough)
| leblancfg wrote:
| Doesn't really work - the real trick is to make sure your ice
| is crystallizing directionally. The impurities are the last to
| crystallize, so this pushes them out.
|
| Then you take your ice out of the container when it's 90% done,
| and your ice chunk is clear.
| alokedesai wrote:
| I've been making clear ice at home for a while--it's a great
| party trick and much easier to do than it seems.
|
| The best part is chiseling ice cubes from a large clear block of
| ice: use a serrated knife and a hammer and you will end up with
| perfectly square blocks of ice.
| boringg wrote:
| Interesting trick!
| burnished wrote:
| Excellent work! I think it was this person that launched my own
| home ice making journey.
|
| My process is simple and involves freezing in quart containers
| and then carving with a steak knife and rubber mallet. Watching
| the freezing process has been neat, at one point I get a shell
| that could be used as a glass by itself.
|
| This might be covered by the literature but my observation is
| that the ice becomes cloudy late in the freezing process which
| makes me suspect the issue is small fractures or imperfections in
| the crystal as a consequence of mechanical forces - the ice tried
| to occupy an area that is just a touch too small. This doesn't
| gel with other folks observations however who see cloudyness
| before the ice fully finishes freezing.
| joncrocks wrote:
| In case anyone wants an easy way to make nice, clear ice fairly
| easy in a home setting.
|
| https://www.wintersmiths.com/ - These guys make gadgets that you
| can put in your freezer and get very clear ice. Melt very
| well/evenly.
|
| You can also find details of their latest machine on kickstarter,
| which is a work in progress.
|
| edit: I have bought most of their products over the years,
| starting with their first ice-baller. And supported the phantom
| kickstarter, and their latest one.
| shermablanca wrote:
| I've purchased this one[1] and it makes almost perfect cubes of
| ice that are very clear and melt evenly and slowly. In my
| cocktail glass it is so flat that the whiskey does not permeate
| the bottom. The result is a beautifully clear square in the
| center of my glass when looking at it from above.
|
| Trick is to let the ice temper for a few minutes to acclimate to
| the room temperature before pouring your drink over it. Otherwise
| it will crack. Also good to spin it a few times in your glass to
| melt it a bit to get it perfectly flat.
|
| [1] ClearlyFrozen High Capacity (10 x 2 Inch) Home Clear Ice Cube
| Tray/Ice Cube Maker https://a.co/d/2E7YcmC
| mastax wrote:
| The margins on that must be incredible. An ice cube tray plus
| some foam packing material, for $40. Didn't even bother to
| encase the foam in a blow-molded shell like a cooler.
| bertronic wrote:
| I use this product too, love it!
| vrglvrglvrgl wrote:
| [dead]
| samwillis wrote:
| Somewhat related interesting fact, the UK ice market is dominated
| by one player who has brought out almost all other manufacturers,
| The Ice Co.
|
| This is a good article from a couple of years ago about them:
| https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/dec/10/super-cubes-ins...
|
| They have created a few "innovative" products, such as larger
| "clearer" ice cubes for cocktails - related to TFA - by spraying
| water into super cooled upside-down moulds.
| yojo wrote:
| Sounds like similar tech to the Kold-Draft machines in the US
| market.[1] During the height of the pandemic one of my
| neighborhood bars was selling bags of their cubes to stay
| afloat. Only good thing to come out of covid.
|
| 1: https://kold-draft.com/pages/why-kold-draft#technology
| rini17 wrote:
| Someone gonna come up with Czochralski process for
| monocrystalline ice :)
| maherbeg wrote:
| I also recommend storing your specialty ice in a brown paper bag.
| It'll keep for a surprisingly long while without sticking to each
| other!
|
| I have a premade directional ice kit and make 10 ice cubes per
| night and then throw them into the paper bags. We never run out
| of ice for weekend gatherings with this trick.
| JeremyNT wrote:
| There was a short-lived show called "Going Deep With David Rees"
| where the host explores this in a humorous manner.
|
| It's S1E1, I believe it is available on Amazon. You might be able
| to find excerpts on youtube.
| keith wrote:
| I've gotten excellent results using an aquarium pump in a cooler.
| Essentially making a tiny Clinebell ice maker in your freezer. If
| you position it right and use the right amount of power, you get
| zero cloudiness at any point in the block. Best sample I was able
| to make (the second slide is more impressive, not sure why I
| didn't post that first):
| https://www.instagram.com/p/BfRgI71B1h7/?hl=en
|
| Major hassle though. And is the aquarium pump food safe? Probably
| better to go with the directional freezing method.
|
| Regardless, I'm pretty sure Camper English mentions this
| somewhere in his archives - he's tried every single method as far
| as I can tell. He is the godfather of clear ice.
| ir77 wrote:
| is it me or pretty much all of those icecubes are infested with
| air bubbles?
|
| i'd think the "cocktail ice" criteria would be to be 100% clear.
| I make my own ice, usually in the winter, because it's fun when
| it's -20 outside and i stock pile it in a deep freezer for the
| remainder of the year.
|
| process: + fill a small cooler almost to the top with water +
| leave the lid open and leave the cooler outside over night, or 2
| nights, depends on the size + *key*: you want to remove the ice
| from the cooler before it freezes all the way through, ideally
| you want ~2 inches of water left on the bottom unfrozen. ice
| freezes from top to bottom, so all the air and impurities keep
| getting pushed down. this top layer will pretty much be perfect,
| you may have to wash off the top layer due to frost/snow that
| have accumulated over night. +. take your new slap of ice and
| score it with a bread cutting serrated knife, tap the knife with
| a wooden spoon and you'll have a perfect cut of a of a huge chuck
| of ice. keep serrating/hitting into smaller chunks.
| schwartzworld wrote:
| Boiling water before freezing is another way of removing
| dissolved gases.
| brenns10 wrote:
| Tested on this very website!
|
| https://www.alcademics.com/2017/10/boiled-versus-rested-
| wate...
|
| Conclusion they came to (your opinion may vary) is that it's
| not worth the time and energy to get e.g. 1/2" more clear
| ice.
| KevinGlass wrote:
| The author of the website not only describes this exact method
| but he also invented the method.
|
| If you scroll to the bottom of this page you can see an example
| of perfect clear, if not smoothed, ice:
|
| https://www.alcademics.com/2017/05/how-to-monogram-your-ice-...
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| > Hello! If you're heard of directional freezing, learned to make
| clear ice in a cooler or in a thermos, or purchased clear ice
| cube trays, that information all came from me, Camper English,
| writing here on Alcademics.
|
| > My big discovery of what became known as directional freezing
| was in 2009, and now it's used all over the world in smaller
| cocktail bars, in homes, and in the form of many commercial ice
| cube trays (none of which are owned by me, sadly).
|
| Interesting...
| ReptileMan wrote:
| Anyone being successful with some diy Peltier or compressor
| solution to make big blocks?
|
| I need big blocks, more than my freezer can cope, but not enough
| to justify couple of thousand EUR worth of machine.
| jrockway wrote:
| > I need big blocks
|
| I did some searching and at least in my neck of the woods it
| seems that such blocks can be ordered and delivered. Maybe you
| don't need to DIY and you can just buy what you need?
| dr_orpheus wrote:
| Can you justify a few hundred for a big chest freezer and a
| cooler? Then you can use the cooler method described in this
| link or in one of the other comments from ir77 on this thread.
| But just put the cooler inside the big chest freezer.
|
| https://www.alcademics.com/2010/08/a-homemade-giant-crystal-...
| ReptileMan wrote:
| It is also terribly slow. I was thinking about something like
| a cold plate on top of which there is pot of water with
| insulated sides that freezes from the bottom up - and
| something to move the water around. so you get constant
| remelt of the top layer so no impurities.
|
| A second hand ice cream maker could provide the cooling
| power.
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