[HN Gopher] Apple previews Live Speech, Personal Voice, and more...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple previews Live Speech, Personal Voice, and more new
       accessibility features
        
       Author : todsacerdoti
       Score  : 557 points
       Date   : 2023-05-16 12:07 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
        
       | nerdjon wrote:
       | I find it interesting that they are not waiting to talk about
       | this at WWDC since I assume these features are tied to iOS 17. I
       | wonder if that means that the simplified apps won't be available
       | to developers (I don't see an App Store so I guess that makes
       | sense).
       | 
       | All of these features do seem really awesome for those that need
       | it. Particularly the voice synthesis. I honestly just want to
       | play with that myself and see how good it is and I am curious if
       | they would use that tech for other things as well.
       | 
       | The whole new simple UI I can really see being a major point.
       | Especially if it includes an Apple Watch component and can still
       | be synced with one for the safety features a watch has.
       | Particularly fall detection.
       | 
       | Edit:
       | 
       | Maybe I missed it but this brings up an interesting problem. Is
       | the Voice Synthesis only stored on the device and never backed up
       | or synced to a new device. Can you imagine your phone breaking or
       | you needing to upgrade after you lost your voice (but you had
       | previously set that up) and you can no longer use it?!?
       | 
       | I fully understand the privacy concerns of something like this
       | being lost. But this isn't like FaceID that could just be easily
       | re-created in some situations. So I really hope they thought
       | about that.
        
         | snowwrestler wrote:
         | Apple has a way to encrypt sensitive data locally and store to
         | iCloud, then de-encrypt it locally later. They are kind of hit-
         | and-miss with when they do this. But they certainly can do it,
         | so it should be possible to securely back up a voice profile.
         | 
         | FaceID is not backed up to iCloud. That is in part because it
         | is a local-only feature. And it is in part because people's
         | faces change over time, so requiring them to re-enroll their
         | face with each new phone ensures accuracy over time.
         | 
         | It may also be sensor-dependent; the model produced and stored
         | by an iPhone 14 might not "make sense" to an iPhone 16, if the
         | hardware is different.
        
           | nerdjon wrote:
           | True, but they have made choices of where they will and will
           | not do this in the past.
           | 
           | I can see the privacy reasons not to have this data sync, but
           | given the reasons you would be doing it in the first place
           | the risk of loosing those recordings or the data for the
           | voice would be a huge risk.
           | 
           | I don't doubt that Apple could sync this data, I just hope
           | that they are. I don't see anything about that happening on
           | this document so I worry that they won't for privacy
           | concerns.
        
         | extra88 wrote:
         | > I find it interesting that they are not waiting to talk about
         | this at WWDC
         | 
         | May 18 is Global Accessibility Awareness Day. There will be
         | many accessibility-related announcements this week.
         | 
         | https://accessibility.day/
        
         | simonbarker87 wrote:
         | This is a pattern they have gotten into in the last few years.
         | Announce accessibility features a few weeks before WWDC. I
         | think it's so they don't have to spend time on important
         | features for the target demographic knowing that they will get
         | swamped out by all the major OS features in the news cycle.
        
         | dagmx wrote:
         | they do this every year. It's because accessibility awareness
         | day is later this week.
        
         | samwillis wrote:
         | If they didn't save Personal Voice for WWDC, just think what
         | they may have ready to announce there. On its own Personal
         | Voice would have been a headline grabbing announcement, but
         | they dropped it now. That suggests to me exciting things.
        
           | nerdjon wrote:
           | I have been starting to wonder if this really is going to be
           | a very packed WWDC. Between this announcement and the Final
           | Cut Pro (and the other tool I don't remember now)
           | announcement.
        
       | specialist wrote:
       | This announcement links to demo reels of actual users. More of
       | this, please.
       | 
       | I wish Apple would produce Starfire style demos showing off their
       | products. In context narratives showing how real people use
       | stuff. Covering features old and new.
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfire_video_prototype
       | 
       | I so want the voice interface future. I became addicted to
       | audiobooks and podcasts during the apocalypse. Hours and days
       | outside, walking the dogs, hiking, gardening.
       | 
       | I made multiple attempts to adapt to Siri and Voice Activated
       | input. Hot damn, that stuff pissed me off. Repeatedly. So I'd
       | have to stop, take off gloves, fish out the phone, unfsck myself,
       | reassemble, then resume my task. Again and again.
       | 
       | How very modal.
       | 
       | This mobile wearable stuff is supposed to be seamless,
       | effortless. Not demand my full attention with every little
       | hiccup.
       | 
       | So I just gave up. Now I suffer with the touch UI. And
       | aggrevations like recording a long video of my pocket lint and
       | invoking emergency services.
       | 
       | Maybe I should just get a Walkman. Transfer content to cassette
       | tapes.
        
       | oidar wrote:
       | Apple's assistive and accessibility features (on mobile) has
       | always been way ahead of Android's - but this taking it to the
       | next level. Talk about a moat.
        
         | lern_too_spel wrote:
         | Android has on-device speech to text for what is happening
         | around you and what is going on in phone calls built-in, which
         | iOS still cannot do, and allows third party accessibility
         | services. Apple remains far, far behind.
         | 
         | For example, iOS's newly announced Detection Mode features have
         | been available since Android _6_.
         | https://support.google.com/accessibility/android/answer/9031...
         | 
         | iOS still doesn't have anything like Direct My Call, which is
         | so useful that I use it as an unimpaired person.
         | https://guidebooks.google.com/pixel/optimize-your-life/use-d...
         | 
         | In general, just like with applications that aren't for
         | accessibility, it is better to use a platform that lets you
         | customize the system to fit your specific needs. We, as
         | technologists, should understand this better than most. iOS
         | simply fails here.
        
           | robertoandred wrote:
           | An app working with Android 6 does not mean it's been
           | available since Android 6. That app was released in 2019.
        
           | nerdjon wrote:
           | I understand where you are going with this.
           | 
           | But "We, as technologists" need to understand that that
           | customization is a hard thing for many people. Most people,
           | especially the people that part of what is announced today is
           | targeted at, need something that is baked into the operating
           | system and easier to manage.
           | 
           | If an accessibility feature requires someone to get the help
           | of someone else to setup it is already a failure right out
           | the gate. They are still reliant on someone else to help
           | manage their phone.
           | 
           | Now yes there are situations where this is impossible to
           | avoid, particularly for vision impaired people since you need
           | to first set that up (but even that there are attempts to
           | address this by the phone setup having those systems turned
           | on by default).
           | 
           | But those are the exceptions and should not be the rule for
           | accessibility features.
           | 
           | Edit:
           | 
           | Just to be clear there is obviously a market for highly
           | customizable accessibility tools similar to the Xbox Adaptive
           | Controller which would need someone else's assistance with.
           | 
           | But not everyone needs this level of support and where
           | possible we should be making tools that allow someone to be
           | fully self reliant and not rely on someone else for setup.
        
       | hassancf wrote:
       | Summary:
       | 
       | "Apple has announced new accessibility features for its devices,
       | including Live Speech, Personal Voice, and Point and Speak in
       | Magnifier. These updates will be available later this year and
       | will help people with cognitive, vision, hearing, and mobility
       | disabilities. Live Speech will read aloud text on the screen,
       | while Personal Voice will allow users to create a custom voice
       | for their device. Point and Speak in Magnifier will provide a
       | spoken description of what is being pointed at. These new
       | features are part of Apple's ongoing commitment to making its
       | products accessible to everyone."
       | 
       | By Bard in 100 words
        
       | nixpulvis wrote:
       | I guess I'm happy about this... but I find it kinda sad too.
       | Apple used to be the minimalist, clean, and champions of the "it
       | just works". Now so many people are getting lost in the gestures,
       | repaint/caching, warring apps and incompatible standards, that
       | this pairing down is increasingly necessary.
       | 
       | It strikes me as something of a halfway point to a phone version
       | of CarPlay. A safety feature that needs immediate investment. Car
       | focus is overly prescriptive, and focus in general doesn't make
       | my phone really safe in the car. And DO NOT start with me about
       | Siri.
       | 
       | I could rant forever, so don't let that take away from the meat
       | of this announcement.
        
       | apozem wrote:
       | Personal Voice is remarkable. Millions of people will be able to
       | create a synthetic voice to help themselves communicate.
       | 
       | We live in the sci-fi future we always dreamed of. Sure, it's a
       | dystopian future, what technology.
        
         | mynameisvlad wrote:
         | What, exactly, is dystopian about an on-device generated voice?
         | 
         | This is about as non-dystopian of an implementation as you can
         | get.
        
       | marban wrote:
       | SPJ would be proud.
        
       | abledon wrote:
       | Finally! Such a simple idea thats taken so long. My parents &
       | grandparents are going to LOVE this.
       | 
       | Only thing they need now is a simplified user interface for Apple
       | Podcasts, 1 click button to listen to the latest episode of a
       | certain podcast on there
        
       | efields wrote:
       | Love the timing of this.
       | 
       | "AI is gonna destroy jobs" vs. "Secure on-device AI can improve
       | your quality of life."
       | 
       | Narratives matter.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | Marketing matters. Apple's "narrative" is breaking their
         | "privacy is a human right" motto so they can kowtow to China
         | and keep their manufacturing margins. That's not very
         | reassuring to people who want truly private AI hardware, but
         | Apple can fix that with marketing.
         | 
         | If you trust them to provide a secure model, I'd wager you
         | haven't fully explored the world of iCloud exploitation.
        
           | efields wrote:
           | I trust them more than I should but less than I could.
           | 
           | In theory researches and hackers can and do watch network
           | traffic while training an on-device model. Apple doesn't want
           | their position of "on device AI is better for the consumer"
           | to be tarnished, so I trust them to not screw around with
           | this.
        
         | precompute wrote:
         | I, for one, don't want a voice cloner in every hand. These
         | things are very, very destructive. Obviously, this is a post
         | about a new apple feature (even though great voice cloning has
         | existed for months) so all the fanboys are unable to control
         | their enthusiasm.
        
       | SoftTalker wrote:
       | Several comments expressing delight at the personal voice thing,
       | I think it sounds completely creepy.
        
       | frankus wrote:
       | I've been digging into Apple's (existing) accessibility features
       | last week and it made me think about what (for lack of a better
       | term) an "accessibility first" app architecture might look like.
       | Current app UIs are all about how to visually represent the
       | objects you can interact with and the actions you can take on
       | them, and then accessibility features are layered on top.
       | (Warning: half-baked idea that's probably been tried countless
       | times) what if you started with semantic information about the
       | objects and the actions you can take on them and then the GUI is
       | just one of several interaction modes (along with voice,
       | keyboard, CLI, etc)?
        
         | w10-1 wrote:
         | Obviously developers who design semantically for different UIs
         | would be far, far ahead. And Apple API's can be used there.
         | 
         | The harder problem is building accessibility API's for
         | oblivious developers, so they can retrofit at the last minute
         | before release (as usually happens). Apple's done a pretty good
         | job there, harvesting the semantics of existing visual UI's to
         | adapt for voice/hearing.
        
         | jdlshore wrote:
         | This was the original premise of the Smalltalk Model-View-
         | Controller architecture. (Not to be confused with web MVC,
         | which reused the name for something else.) The "Controller" in
         | Model-View-Controller refers to the input device, and a given
         | Model can have multiple independent Views and Controllers. The
         | "Model" is supposed to an object that's a semantic
         | representation of the underlying thing being manipulated.
         | 
         | One of the visible impacts of MVC is that changes occur in
         | real-time: you modify a value in a dialog, and everything
         | affected by that value instantly updates. This is already
         | common in Mac apps (in contrast to Windows apps, which
         | typically want you to press "ok" or "apply"), so it wouldn't
         | surprise me if Apple was already using a modern MVC variant.
         | It's a well-known pattern.
        
           | alexjm wrote:
           | In the Apple documentation for MVC, "controller" refers to a
           | class that sits between the model and view. When data changes
           | in the model, it updates the view; and when the user
           | interacts with the view, it passes events to the model.
           | 
           | https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ge.
           | ..
           | 
           | Elsewhere, the documentation contrasts the Cocoa and
           | Smalltalk versions of MVC where all three pieces communicate
           | directly:
           | 
           | https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Co.
           | ..
           | 
           | Like you said, this separation means you can "drive" the same
           | model through different UIs. That's one of the things I
           | always thought was cool about AppleScript support -- the app
           | exposes a different interface to the same model.
        
       | robin_reala wrote:
       | The Personal Voice feature is making me tear up. Pretty much the
       | most human use of AI I've seen so far.
        
         | nohaydeprobleme wrote:
         | For ease of reading for other users, here is a quote from the
         | article about the Personal Voice feature:
         | 
         | "For users at risk of losing their ability to speak -- such as
         | those with a recent diagnosis of ALS (amyotrophic lateral
         | sclerosis) or other conditions that can progressively impact
         | speaking ability -- Personal Voice is a simple and secure way
         | to create a voice that sounds like them.
         | 
         | "Users can create a Personal Voice by reading along with a
         | randomized set of text prompts to record 15 minutes of audio on
         | iPhone or iPad. This speech accessibility feature uses on-
         | device machine learning to keep users' information private and
         | secure, and integrates seamlessly with Live Speech so users can
         | speak with their Personal Voice when connecting with loved
         | ones.
         | 
         | "At the end of the day, the most important thing is being able
         | to communicate with friends and family," said Philip Green,
         | board member and ALS advocate at the Team Gleason nonprofit,
         | who has experienced significant changes to his voice since
         | receiving his ALS diagnosis in 2018. "If you can tell them you
         | love them, in a voice that sounds like you, it makes all the
         | difference in the world -- and being able to create your
         | synthetic voice on your iPhone in just 15 minutes is
         | extraordinary."
        
           | sork_hn wrote:
           | I wonder if I could use this to build a AI voice for my aging
           | parents so I can hear their voices after they pass away?
        
             | garblegarble wrote:
             | You could also just record some conversations with them? I
             | think hearing them actually speak about their experiences
             | and memories would be much more impactful than hearing a
             | simulation of them, no matter how accurate
        
         | heywhatupboys wrote:
         | Do the diseased get to loose their voice when they are gone?
        
         | sswezey wrote:
         | Honestly, I wish this was around 10 years ago to save my late
         | mother's voice. I saved all my voicemails I have from her and
         | wish I could hear more from her.
        
       | easton wrote:
       | Finally! Grandma mode! With how hard it is to find uncomplicated
       | dumbphones that work on AT&T, this will be an alternative for if
       | we need to get my grandma another phone.
        
         | KyeRussell wrote:
         | My first thought was "I'm totally going to turn this on on an
         | off day".
        
         | ChicagoBoy11 wrote:
         | this was my first thought as well. I could immediately see how
         | this would totally allow my grandmother to be independent while
         | using a smartphone!
        
       | knaik94 wrote:
       | One of the most useful accessibility features, as someone who
       | doesn't require any, has been the live caption feature. I have no
       | hearing or vision impairments, but I do struggle with ADHD. It
       | was launched a while ago, along with audio detection for things
       | like doorbells or alarms. I was hoping multi-language
       | translations to be announced along with this. Currently things
       | are still limited to English (U.S.) or (Canada) audio and text.
       | 
       | It's been so helpful to be able to read a short transcript of
       | what was just said. The live caption feature works on video
       | calls, and while multi-speaker captioning isn't perfect, it
       | mostly works. I also really like how Android, iOS, and Windows
       | all seem to keep feature parity among the operating systems. I
       | wonder how Google and Microsoft will respond to this and I wonder
       | how Personal Voice will work for communication outside of the
       | Apple ecosystem.
        
       | aaronbrethorst wrote:
       | Frankly, I think Assistive Access could be great for a lot of
       | boomer parents/grandparents. My dad is unwilling to learn how to
       | use a smartphone and this could be sufficiently approachable to
       | let him overcome his fear of it.
        
       | sergiomattei wrote:
       | Assistive Access looks great! This is perfect for my grandfather
       | with Parkinson's, who often struggles with his phone due to the
       | deterioration of his motor skills.
        
         | alden5 wrote:
         | Same thought here! it really sucks that 3g networks shut down
         | making most flip phones functionality useless. there really
         | aren't any modern smart phones designed for people who want
         | something easy to use which makes this announcement so exciting
        
       | nitins_jakta wrote:
       | Great stuff. Next, would love to see Apple give an option for
       | people sensitive to temporal dithering or PWM.
       | 
       | It triggers migraines (or vestibular migraines), tension
       | headaches and dizziness in a minority.
       | 
       | See https://www.change.org/p/apple-add-accessibility-options-
       | to-..., or FlickerSense.org, or LEDStrain.org forum.
        
       | at-fates-hands wrote:
       | I had two relatives die from ALS.
       | 
       | When my grandfather lost his ability to speak, it was frustrating
       | for him because he was such an intelligent, articulate person.
       | Having a disease that renders your voice useless and then having
       | to communicate via a small whiteboard for him was not fun. He
       | couldn't write fast enough and often times felt like a burden
       | because we would all be waiting to see what he wanted to say.
       | 
       | the Live Speech features for people with ALS will be a game
       | changer. It saddens me this wasn't around when my grandfather
       | passed, but am optimistic others who have this horrendous disease
       | can utilize it to continue to communicate with their families
       | even when ALS has taken their voice.
        
       | bigdict wrote:
       | "Assistive Access distills experiences across the Camera, Photos,
       | Music, Calls, and Messages apps on iPhone to their essential
       | features in order to lighten their cognitive load for users."
       | 
       | I might use this myself even though I'm not disabled.
        
         | matwood wrote:
         | Accessibility is for everyone.
        
         | sparsevector wrote:
         | Agreed. Presenting this feature solely as a tool for users with
         | cognitive disabilities might undersell its potential. There's a
         | significant number of smartphone users who only utilize a small
         | fraction of the available features and would prefer a simpler
         | interface focusing on the 10% of features they actually use.
         | Interestingly, this demographic includes both less tech-
         | literate users, who might feel overwhelmed by the complexity,
         | and extremely tech-literate users who know exactly what they
         | need and prefer clean, distraction-free tools.
        
           | Corrado wrote:
           | My 84 year old mother does remarkably well with her suite of
           | Apple products. However, it would be nice to simplify some
           | things. She only calls or chats with a limited number of
           | people. Reworking the phone and messenger apps to use large
           | pictures of the people would be a benefit. Something similar
           | for the camera / photos app would be great as well.
        
             | dfinninger wrote:
             | You can pin messages in iMessage, which turns it into a big
             | photo. Also when you hit the search button in Photos it'll
             | show you big images of people's faces if you want to see
             | photos of a particular person (if you've trained your phone
             | on those faces).
             | 
             | I do wish the "favorites" view in the phone app made the
             | headshots big like iMessage, though.
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | > I might use this myself even though I'm not disabled.
         | 
         | Also see curb cuts (1)
         | 
         | (1) https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/curb-cuts/
        
           | teddyh wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Curb_cut_effect&o.
           | ..
        
         | pimlottc wrote:
         | Not all disabilities are permanent! Sometimes you're just
         | situationally disabled, i.e. you're in the car, or carrying a
         | child, or sleep-deprived, or just stressed out.
         | 
         | Accessibility features can help everyone.
        
         | KyeRussell wrote:
         | Time to rethink your understanding of disability.
        
       | achalkley wrote:
       | Great preparation for Reality Pro
        
       | jalada wrote:
       | I know there's a lot of concerns about generative voices, but
       | it's a shame the only solution is 'insist on a live recording of
       | random phrases'. For those whose voices have already degenerated,
       | but who have hours of recordings available from historical
       | sources (e.g. speech therapy sessions), it's too late to ask them
       | to record something fresh.
       | 
       | Don't get me wrong, it's fantastic to see the tech being used
       | this way. My Dad has lost most of his speech due to some kind of
       | aphasia-causing condition and if this had been available just a
       | year or two ago it could've been a big help for him; it's
       | reassuring that others earlier in the journey will benefit from
       | this.
        
         | desro wrote:
         | You may want to check out Rhasspy/Piper [0,1]. The Piper page
         | includes training instructions.
         | 
         | [0] https://github.com/rhasspy
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/rhasspy/piper
        
         | elicash wrote:
         | It's not necessarily the only solution, just the one Apple has
         | started with. My guess is that at least in part there are
         | technical reasons, since even this structured approach will
         | require overnight processing (source: WaPo) by Apple.
         | 
         | I do think additionally, in the case for a situation like with
         | your dad, Apple would need to verify that he is the same person
         | that there's hours of audio of. That strikes me as a difficult
         | at Apple's scale.
        
           | nier wrote:
           | Archive link for mentioned Washington Post article:
           | https://archive.is/CPk7H
        
       | nntwozz wrote:
       | Apple accessibility features are second to none. They have been
       | leading the charge ever since Mac OS X 10.0 Cheetah 22 years ago.
        
       | victor106 wrote:
       | Apple gets lot of flak here in HN. But these features are really
       | commendable.
       | 
       | The personal voice feature is one of the best uses of AI I have
       | read about in recent times.
       | 
       | Kudos to Apple!!!
        
       | johnwayne666 wrote:
       | > Users who are sensitive to rapid animations can automatically
       | pause images with moving elements, such as GIFs, in Messages and
       | Safari.
       | 
       | That's so nice. I hate when stuff moves in my vision when I'm
       | trying to read something.
        
       | kasperset wrote:
       | Always nice to see accessibility features. I would love to see a
       | way to share settings. There are so many hidden features and iOS
       | settings is getting crowded and is very difficult to use. A
       | "simplified" mode where only few selected apps are available like
       | they have shown in the press release would be nice even for not
       | so challenged people.
        
       | billiam wrote:
       | Not sure why everyone thinks local language processing,
       | generation and voice synthesis has anything to do with privacy.
       | Apple's business model has supported their relatively pro-privacy
       | approach (along with how bad they are at a lot of cloud services)
       | but doing anything useful with a 30B token LLM stored on your
       | machine is still going to require the Internet, and your AI
       | Personal Assistant will be just as tracked and cracked as you are
       | today.
        
       | cglong wrote:
       | Off-topic, but I'm getting tired of Apple creating a Proper Noun
       | for every new feature they want to include in marketing. They're
       | always so vague and/or obtuse that I keep forgetting them and
       | what they mean. As an example, I thought I knew what ProMotion
       | was but am realizing now that I was confusing it with True Tone.
        
         | heywhatupboys wrote:
         | point of Apple products is that users don't have to care
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | If you haven't looked at the accessibility features on your
       | iPhone, you should check them out. There's some interesting stuff
       | there already. Though it's a little awkward to use, the facial
       | gesture functionality is really interesting.
       | 
       | I feel that many features currently focused on accessibility will
       | soon be integrated into the main user interface as AI becomes a
       | more important part of our computing experience. Talking to your
       | phone without a wake word, hand gestures, object
       | recognition/detection, face and head movements, etc. are all part
       | of the future HCI. Live multimodal input will be the norm within
       | the decade.
       | 
       | It's taken a while for people to get used to having a live mic
       | waiting for wakewords, and it'll take them a while to get used to
       | a live camera (though this is already happening with Face ID),
       | but sooner than later, having a HAL 9000 style camera in our
       | lives will be the norm.
        
       | zackkatz wrote:
       | a) These features are truly moving. I didn't expect to get
       | emotional from a press release. b) It's gonna be a bonkers
       | keynote if they're releasing this before WWDC.
        
       | zakki wrote:
       | I'm exited to try Personal Voice feature. If it happened years
       | ago I could create the voice of my parents, grand parents and
       | other close people to me. It will be wonderful to hear their
       | voice again. Hmm I wonder if we can extract a voice from a video
       | and feed it to Personal Voice.
        
         | sergiomattei wrote:
         | Omg! I must do this now with my grandma
        
       | ciabattabread wrote:
       | > Assistive Access includes a customized experience for Phone and
       | FaceTime, _which have been combined into a single Calls app_
       | 
       | Hmm... telegraphing a future change?
        
       | pcurve wrote:
       | I'm in my mid 40s, and I can see myself using these because I can
       | no longer read things clearly without reading glasses, including
       | restaurant menus.
       | 
       | And yay to the super tacky looking deep drop shadows and rounded
       | corners. Hate them all you want, but they're good for affordance.
        
       | JustSomeNobody wrote:
       | Is it digitally watermarked so that I know I'm listening to an AI
       | version of someone's voice?
       | 
       | If not, why did Apple think I would not want to know that bit of
       | information.
        
       | classified wrote:
       | I'd like to see text-to-speech applicable to iBooks so you can
       | have whole chapters read to you. Not as good as an audio book,
       | but better than nothing.
        
         | robin_reala wrote:
         | So I agree that easily available speech controls would be a
         | nice benefit, but Books is fully compatible with VoiceOver
         | already (and has been since VoiceOver's launch).
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | This is problematic because it competes with audiobooks.
         | Presumably Apple wants to sell audiobooks and also doesn't want
         | to piss off publishers. Kindle provides a (mediocre) text-to-
         | speech feature, but only for books where publisher have
         | consented to it. Apple's strategy seems to be to have
         | publishers (rather than readers) use their AI-powered digital
         | narration service:
         | https://authors.apple.com/support/4519-digital-narration-aud...
        
       | andy_xor_andrew wrote:
       | Apple really is the sleeping giant on AI.
       | 
       | It would be totally within their MO to suddenly wake up, and turn
       | this cutting edge AI stuff, which no one is quite sure what to do
       | with, into a killer app with super high quality. Fingers crossed.
        
       | santiagobasulto wrote:
       | Off-topic: when you work with multiple monitors, wouldn't you
       | like some sort of eye-tracking mechanism that could identify what
       | window you're looking at, and immediately shift the focus to
       | that?
       | 
       | I have several consoles open in different monitors and sometimes
       | I accidentally run commands in some because the focus is in some
       | other one :/
        
         | crims0n wrote:
         | How would that work when you just want to glance at another
         | window but not bring it into focus?
        
       | felipemesquita wrote:
       | The main issue I see older people have with iPhones is unrelated
       | to ui complexity. iOS' worst parts are services/updates where the
       | user is frequently asked for Apple ID passwords and shown
       | confusing ads for Apple services like iCloud Photo Library that
       | end up making photos more complicated to use as some pictures are
       | now unavailable without internet. More parts of the iOS
       | experience are getting unnecessarily tangled with server side
       | services that require unpredictable prompts to get acceptance to
       | terms and conditions, logins, and traps that make you set up two
       | factor auth or buy an unnecessary subscription.
        
         | qgin wrote:
         | These things are the bane of my existence with my Mom's iphone.
         | She is blind but is not able to use all the swiping/tapping
         | features of Voiceover due to a tremor. She mostly uses the
         | phone with Siri only and that works well enough until a popup
         | decides to appear.
        
         | ec109685 wrote:
         | I agree that apple prompts for iCloud passwords way too
         | frequently and doesn't have the ability to authorize with
         | another device (despite the fact that you could reset your
         | password from another device).
         | 
         | "Type your password to buy this item on the App Store". Why?
        
           | falcolas wrote:
           | > "Type your password to buy this item on the App Store".
           | Why?
           | 
           | Because store items can be quite expensive (particularly the
           | microtransactions), and it's using a stored credit card. I
           | too get bugged by the plethora of prompts, but this is a good
           | example of when to use one. Plus, after doing it once you can
           | tie it back to Face ID or Touch ID and not have to enter it
           | again for quite some time.
        
             | ec109685 wrote:
             | Store items have much, much less value than your personal
             | data on the device and that can be accessed just with your
             | passcode.
        
               | falcolas wrote:
               | Financial transactions are held to a higher standard
               | (i.e. there's a bunch of laws around them) than device
               | access. That said, you can make your device passcode as
               | complex as your Apple ID password if it's a tradeoff
               | you're willing to make.
        
       | rado wrote:
       | This is great, though they should really fix accessibility
       | basics: keyboard control in App Store etc. I contacted Apple
       | Support about keyboard control of the Look Around feature in
       | Maps, not sure they even understood the request. Directed me to
       | an unsolicited ideas disclaimer.
        
       | samwillis wrote:
       | Firstly compliments to Apple for all these incredible
       | accessibility features.
       | 
       | I think there is an important little nod to the future in this
       | announcement. "Personal Voice" is training (likely fine tuning)
       | and then running a local AI model to generate the user's voice.
       | This is a sneak peak of the future of Apple.
       | 
       | They are in the unique position to enable _local_ AI tools, such
       | as assistance or text generation, without the difficulties and
       | privacy concerns with the cloud. Apple silicone is primed for
       | local AI models with its GPU, Neural Cores and the unified memory
       | architecture.
       | 
       | I suspect that Apple is about to surprise everyone with what they
       | do next. I'm very excited to see where they go with the M3, and
       | what they release for both users and developers looking to
       | harness the progress made in AI but locally.
        
         | ec109685 wrote:
         | The question is whether there will be models that can't fit
         | into an iPhone that apple will miss out on because they find
         | cloud based personalization so abhorrent.
         | 
         | Agree these are tremendously good features and having them run
         | locally will provide the best possible experience.
        
           | samwillis wrote:
           | My hope for the surprise is an almost order of magnitude
           | increase in memory on these chips. That wold be
           | transformative for local AI.
        
             | fastball wrote:
             | Order of magnitude increase in memory without a
             | corresponding increase in size is a pipe dream if I've ever
             | heard one.
        
               | samwillis wrote:
               | We're all aloud our pipe dreams, the future is built on
               | them.
        
             | astrange wrote:
             | Have you tried using less memory?
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | _The question is whether there will be models that can't fit
           | into an iPhone that apple will miss out on_
           | 
           | Fortunately, Apple isn't an adolescent, so it doesn't suffer
           | from FOMO.
           | 
           |  _because they find cloud based personalization so
           | abhorrent._
           | 
           | I'm not even sure what "cloud based personalization" means to
           | the user, other than "Hoover up all of your personal
           | information."
        
             | whimsicalism wrote:
             | > I'm not even sure what "cloud based personalization"
             | means to the user, other than "Hoover up all of your
             | personal information."
             | 
             | It means having actually good ML.
             | 
             | I see so many posts around here saying Apple is absolutely
             | well positioned to dominate in ML. It's just not true.
             | 
             | Nobody who is a top AI player wants to work at Apple where
             | they have few if any AI products, no data, don't pay
             | particularly well, not a big research culture, etc. etc.
             | 
             | The _only_ thing they have going for them in this space is
             | a good ARM architecture for low power matrix
             | multiplication.
        
         | mupuff1234 wrote:
         | Do users actually care whether something is local or not?
         | 
         | (Edit: In terms of privacy as there are benefits in terms of
         | speed and offline work)
         | 
         | It's not like we're not already storing all of our media on the
         | cloud (including voice), passwords and other sensitive data.
        
           | s3p wrote:
           | No, it is not. We are not ALL doing this, maybe you are
           | though.
        
           | drewbeck wrote:
           | Local also solves any spotty connection issues. Your super
           | amazing know everything about you assistant that stops
           | working when you're on a plane or subway or driving through
           | the mountains is very less amazing. If they can solve it,
           | local will end up being way way smoother of a daily
           | experience.
        
           | deanc wrote:
           | Yes. The amount of times I ask Siri on my homepod "What time
           | is it?" and it replies "One moment..." [5 seconds] "Sorry,
           | this is taking longer than expected..." [5 seconds] "Sorry, I
           | didn't get that".
           | 
           | I have to assume this is due to connectivity issues, there is
           | no other logical reason why it would take so long to figure
           | out what I said for so long, or not have the data on what the
           | time is locally.
        
             | slowmovintarget wrote:
             | It's shipping the recording to get recognized, interpreted,
             | and mapped to commands.
        
           | ambicapter wrote:
           | Apple has positioned itself as big on privacy, turning
           | privacy into a premium product (because no other big tech
           | company has taken that stance or seems willing to), further
           | entrenching Apple as the premium option. In that respect I
           | think users will "care" about privacy.
        
           | heyjamesknight wrote:
           | I do, when I'm without a quality internet connection and a
           | basic request to Siri to turn on a timer fails.
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | A lot of end users do not and they have no interest in
           | spending the time figuring it out. That's why it's very
           | important that the companies behind the technology we use
           | make ethical choices that are good for their users and when
           | that doesn't happen, legislators need to step in.
           | 
           | Apple has been on both sides of that coin and what is ethical
           | isn't always clear.
        
             | fastball wrote:
             | > companies need to be ethical
             | 
             | > what is ethical isn't always clear
             | 
             | So...?
        
               | criddell wrote:
               | So communicate. Have guiding principles for the company.
               | Be open about the choices you make and why you make them.
               | Listen and respond to criticism.
        
               | otterley wrote:
               | Apple has one: "Privacy is a fundamental human right."
        
               | LocalH wrote:
               | Not for their employees, otherwise they'd develop a setup
               | to keep personal and company information separate
               | internally. https://www.theverge.com/22648265/apple-
               | employee-privacy-icl...
        
               | wstrange wrote:
               | Except when it impacts profits (I E. China)
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | Absolutely, in terms of speed.
           | 
           | Even with something as simple as dictation, when iOS did it
           | over the cloud, it was limited to 30 seconds at a time, and
           | could have very noticeable lag.
           | 
           | Now that dictation is on-device, there's no time limit (you
           | can dictate continuously) and it's very responsive. Instead
           | of dictating short messages, you can dictate an entire
           | journal entry.
           | 
           | Obviously it will vary on a feature-by-feature basis whether
           | on-device is even possible or beneficial, but for anything
           | you want to do in "real time" it's very much ideal to do
           | locally.
           | 
           | Edit in response to your edit: nope, on privacy specifically
           | I don't think most users care at all. I think it's all about
           | speed and the existence of features in the first place.
        
           | hosteur wrote:
           | Yes. I am a user. And I care.
           | 
           | I think most users care if actually given the choice.
        
             | j2bax wrote:
             | Agreed, which is why Facebook was so devastated by opt in
             | tracking...
        
           | Someone wrote:
           | > Do users actually care whether something is local or not?
           | 
           | I think most don't, but they do care about latency, and
           | that's lower for local hardware.
           | 
           | Of course, it's also higher for slower hardware, and mobile
           | local hardware has a speed disadvantage, but even on a modern
           | phone, local can beat in the cloud for latency.
        
           | insane_dreamer wrote:
           | Yes
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | > They are in the unique position to enable local AI tools
         | 
         | Nothing special about Apple with regards to AI. M2 beats x86 in
         | power efficiency, but not significantly better than other ARM
         | processors.
        
           | shepherdjerred wrote:
           | I think the parent is referring to the Apple Neural Engine in
           | Apple Silicon, which aren't widely used today (as far as I
           | know)
        
         | jayd16 wrote:
         | Is it really that unique a position? Doesn't Google's pixel
         | phones have a neural core and similar architecture as well?
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | A lot of people buy Android. But very few people buy Pixel:
           | 
           | > _In a world dominated by iPhones and Samsung phones, Google
           | isn 't a contender. Since the first Pixel launched in 2016,
           | the entire series has sold 27.6 million units, according to
           | data by analyst firm IDC -- a number that's one-tenth of the
           | 272 million phones Samsung shipped in 2021 alone. Apple's no
           | slouch, having shipped 235 million phones in the same
           | period._ [1]
           | 
           | [1] https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/why-google-pixels-arent-
           | as-...
        
             | JustSomeNobody wrote:
             | How is this at all an answer to @jayd16's question?
             | 
             | The number of phones Google has sold is completely
             | irrelevant to the fact that they too do local ai and have
             | hardware on device for processing it.
        
               | crazygringo wrote:
               | Because jayd16 was responding to samwillis's comment
               | about Apple being in a unique position.
               | 
               | Part of that unique position is already being a popular
               | product. Google adding a bunch of local ML features isn't
               | going to move the needle for Google if people aren't
               | buying Pixels in the first place for reasons that have
               | nothing to do with ML.
               | 
               | If Google's trying to roll out local ML features but 90%
               | of Android phones can't support them, it's not benefiting
               | Google that much. Hence, Apple's unique position to
               | benefit in a way that Google won't.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _number of phones Google has sold is completely
               | irrelevant to the fact that they too do local ai_
               | 
               | How will they make money? For Apple, device purchases
               | make local processing worth it. For Google, who
               | distribute software to varied hardware, subscription is
               | the only way. For reasons from updating to piracy,
               | subscription software tends to be SaaS.
        
               | barkerja wrote:
               | Does Google do on-device processing? Or do they have to
               | pander to the lowest denominator, which happens to be
               | their biggest marketshare?
               | 
               | If the answer is no, then does it make sense for them to
               | allocate those resources for such a small segment, and
               | potentially alienate its users that choose non-Pixel
               | devices?
               | 
               | Also, if the answer is no, this is where Apple would have
               | the upper-hand, given that ALL iOS devices run on
               | hardware created by Apple, giving some guarantees.
               | 
               | (I don't know this answer, it's a legitimate ask)
        
             | pier25 wrote:
             | > _But very few people buy Pixel_
             | 
             | I've wanted to buy a Pixel for years but Google doesn't
             | distribute it here. It's not like I'm living in some remote
             | area, I live in Mexico, right next door.
             | 
             | The first couple of years I assumed Google was just testing
             | the waters, but after so many Pixel models I suspect it's
             | really just more of a marketing thing for Android. They
             | don't seem to have any interest in distributing the Pixel
             | worldwide, ramping up production, etc.
        
             | jayd16 wrote:
             | Pixel is just an example of Google owning the stack end to
             | end but the Qualcomm chips in the Samsung phones have
             | Tensor accelerator hardware and all mobile hardware is
             | shared memory. I think samwillis was referring to the
             | uniqueness of their PC hardware and my comment was that
             | they're simply using the very common mobile architecture in
             | their PCs instead of being in a completely unique place.
        
           | Grustaf wrote:
           | The uniqueness is not in hardware it's in trust. And the
           | ability to make software for normal human beings.
        
             | JustSomeNobody wrote:
             | Trust. That's an interesting word.
             | 
             | Personally, I don't trust corporations. Their motive is
             | always money.
        
               | reaperducer wrote:
               | _Personally, I don 't trust corporations._
               | 
               | How do you eat?
        
               | nawgz wrote:
               | Because a food corporation that sells food that kills
               | people is unlikely to make piles of money.
        
               | paganel wrote:
               | Not for lack of trying.
               | 
               | If anyone were to write a chronological history of
               | regulations imposed by different authorities throughoug
               | history I think that it is a fair assumption to make that
               | regulations related to making bread would already show up
               | in the first chapters of the book.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | whimsicalism wrote:
             | I don't trust Apple to make usable/working ML products,
             | whereas I do trust Google to do those things.
             | 
             | I would never, for instance, rely on Apple's "Translate"
             | when Google is available.
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | Apple's maps, navigation, and routing are also inferior
               | to Google's
        
               | sbuk wrote:
               | Depend on where you are. In my experience, Google's times
               | are way too optimistic and the route finding in London is
               | shit.
        
             | asveikau wrote:
             | Sounds more like fanboyism to me.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | birdyrooster wrote:
           | Google has the absolute worst ARM silicon money can buy
           | (Tensor G2), go look at the benchmarks it's comical they
           | would charge $1800 for a phone with it.
        
             | Grazester wrote:
             | Comical or not it gets the job done and I think this was
             | the idea.
        
         | uncletammy wrote:
         | > They are in the unique position to enable local AI tools,
         | such as assistance or text generation, without the difficulties
         | and privacy concerns with the cloud.
         | 
         | I don't see why client-side processing mitigates the privacy
         | concerns. That doesn't stop Apple from "locally" spying on you
         | then later sending that data to their servers.
        
           | marricks wrote:
           | Ok, sure, but surely you see how it is that much harder to
           | do?
           | 
           | Also since Apple is built around selling expensive devices
           | and services you could also see why they'd have much less
           | incentive to spy and collect data than, say, Google or
           | Facebook?
           | 
           | The cynicism of "everything is equally bad so why care" is
           | destructive.
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | Now. It was just two decades ago that Apple was on life
             | support. That could happen again. And the temptation would
             | be much stronger to start monitizing their user's data.
        
               | marricks wrote:
               | Very good point: if things changed drastically they could
               | change drastically.
        
           | aardvarkr wrote:
           | Nope but that is something that can be monitored and
           | investigated, pretty easily I might add.
        
         | huijzer wrote:
         | Sounds plausible. Also due to the news yesterday that Apple
         | uses 90% of TSMC's 3nm space in 2023 [1]. Whereas everyone is
         | talking about a recession, Apple seems to see opportunities. Or
         | maybe they just had too much cash on hand. Also possible.
         | 
         | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35947339
        
           | thorncorona wrote:
           | I thought this is because everyone else is interested in N3E
           | while Apple is happy to book on N3B?
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | Density doesn't _always_ matter. I 'm reminded of Apple's 5nm
           | M1 Ultra struggling to keep up with Nvidia's 10nm RTX 3080 in
           | standard use. Having such a minor node advantage won't
           | necessarily save them here, especially since Nvidia's
           | currently occupying the TSMC 4nm supply.
        
             | IOT_Apprentice wrote:
             | Apple is rumored to be taking 90% of TSMCs 3nm production.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | It will be quite the showdown, then. The M1 struggled to
               | compete with current-gen Nvidia cards at release, we'll
               | have to see if the same holds true for M3.
        
             | Someone wrote:
             | > Having such a minor node advantage
             | 
             | Is that a minor advantage? I would think that, the smaller
             | the nodes get, the larger the impact of a 1nm difference.
             | Because transistors have area, I think the math, in
             | [?]transistor count would be 3nm:4nm =  1/3 2:1/42, and
             | that's 1,777... so a 3nm node could have 75% more
             | transistors on a given die area than a 4nm one (roughly).
        
               | Kirby64 wrote:
               | 4nm -> 3nm no longer means size goes down as a result
               | directly ratiometricly. You have to look at what TSMC is
               | claiming for their improvements. They're claiming 5nm ->
               | 3nm is a 70% density improvement (I can't find any 4nm ->
               | 3nm claims)... so 4->3 must be much less.
               | 
               | Also, most folks seem to have gone directly from 5nm to
               | 3nm, and skipped 4nm altogether.
        
             | valine wrote:
             | Nvidia is somewhat encumbered by their need to optimize for
             | raster performance. Ideally, all those transistors should
             | be going toward tensor cores. Apple has never really taken
             | the gaming market seriously. If they wanted to, they could
             | ship their next M3 chip with identical GPU performance and
             | use all that new 3nm die space for AI accelerators.
        
             | philistine wrote:
             | You're comparing a pickup truck with a Main Battle Tank. An
             | RTX 3080 is an electricity hog and produces heat like a
             | monster. No wonder it performs better than an M1 Ultra with
             | a worse node tech.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | The RTX 3080 consumes ~300w at load, the M1 Ultra
               | consumes ~200w. If you extrapolate the M1 Ultra's
               | performance to match the 3080, it would also consume
               | roughly the same amount of power.
               | 
               | Is this not a battle-tank-to-battle-tank comparison?
        
               | lbourdages wrote:
               | Since when is there a full fledged CPU in an RTX 3080?
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | You can run an RTX 3080 off anything with enough PCI
               | bandwidth to handle it. Presumably the same goes for
               | Apple's GPU. We could adjust for CPU wattage, but at-load
               | it amounts to +/-40w on either side and when we're only
               | testing the GPU it's like +/-10w maximum.
               | 
               | The larger point is that Apple's lead doesn't extrapolate
               | very far here, even with a generous comparison to a last-
               | gen GPU. It will be great at inferencing, but so are most
               | machines with AVX2 and 8 gigs of DRAM. If you're
               | convinced Apple hardware is the apex of inferencing
               | performance, you should Runpod a 40-series card and prove
               | yourself wrong real quick. It's less than $1 and well
               | worth the reality check.
        
               | lbourdages wrote:
               | My point was mostly that the 200W TDP you quote is for
               | the whole package (CPU, GPU, RAM, plus the Neural network
               | thingy and the whole IO stuff). A 120W figure for the GPU
               | is more realistic.
               | 
               | I'm not pretending the Apple chips are the be-all-end-all
               | of performance. They certainly have limitations and are
               | not able to compete with proper high end chips. However I
               | can confidently say that on mobile devices and laptops,
               | competition is largely behind. Sure a 1000+$ standalone
               | GPU will be faster, but it doesn't fit in my jeans. It's
               | the same as comparing a Hasselblad camera with the iPhone
               | 14 pro...
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | The competition is all fine, though. They have enough
               | memory to run the models, they have hardware acceleration
               | (ARMnn, SNPE, etc.) and both OSes can run it fine.
               | Apple's difference is... their own set of APIs and
               | hardware options?
               | 
               | How can you justify your claim that they're "largely
               | behind"? It sounds to me like the competition is neck-
               | and-neck in the consumer market, and blowing them out at-
               | scale. It's simply hard to entertain that argument for a
               | platform without CUDA, much less the performance crown or
               | performance-per-watt crown.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | cubefox wrote:
         | > Apple silicone is primed for local AI models with its GPU,
         | Neural Cores and the unified memory architecture.
         | 
         | Is there any information on how they are doing with respect to
         | local AI compared to other Smartphone SoCs? (Snapdragon,
         | Tensor, Kirin, Helio etc)
        
         | yyyk wrote:
         | >They are in the unique position to enable local AI tools
         | 
         | The only unique Apple thing here is how bad their AI products
         | here and how behind they are in AI. This is the only thing that
         | matters here - performance is adequate or better for the other
         | processors out there, but you can't get anywhere without the
         | appropriate software. Maybe they'll get smart enough to buy
         | some AI startups/companies to get the missing talent.
        
           | andy_ppp wrote:
           | Which AI products that they have actually implemented are
           | bad? I think Siri is pretty poor to be fair and improves at a
           | glacial pace. Pretty much everything else I'd say is state of
           | the art from things like text selection from images, cutting
           | out of image subject, their computational photography, even
           | Map directions have come a long way.
        
             | yyyk wrote:
             | When people talk about AI they mean the new tech like LLM
             | or Diffusion, and the only relevant Apple offering (Siri)
             | is way behind and there's no evidence they have anything to
             | replace it.
             | 
             | (Aside, their image manipulation and Map is worse - though
             | with Maps I dunno what's the underlying issue, and OCR was
             | already mostly solved. I'm far from a photography expert so
             | can't compare there).
        
               | brookst wrote:
               | With Apple it is always good to draw the distinction (as
               | you did) between them _being behind_ and there being no
               | evidence of them not being behind.
        
               | yyyk wrote:
               | True that. But I won't give Apple credit for products we
               | can't see or assume good performance without proof. As
               | they say in the movies: "Show me the money".
               | 
               | I'll say though that no multibillion company is under
               | existential threat. Not Apple, not Google and not even
               | Intel. At worst they will lose a couple tens of billions
               | and some marketshare. Even IBM still exists and took a
               | long long time to fall to where it is still today.
        
         | rodgerd wrote:
         | > I think there is an important little nod to the future in
         | this announcement. "Personal Voice" is training (likely fine
         | tuning) and then running a local AI model to generate the
         | user's voice.
         | 
         | My Kiwi accent needs this _so bad_.
        
         | detourdog wrote:
         | Just yesterday I started using a new maxed out Mac mini and
         | everything about it is snappy. I have no doubt that it is ready
         | for enormous amount of background processing. Heavy background
         | work is the only way to use the processing power in that little
         | computer.
        
           | samwillis wrote:
           | Think Siri+ChatGPT trained on all your email, documents,
           | browser history, messages, movements, everything. All local,
           | no cloud, complete privacy.
           | 
           | "Hey Siri, I had a meeting last summer in New York about
           | project X, could you bring up all relevant documents and give
           | me a brief summary of what we discussed and decisions we
           | made. Oh and while you're at it, we ate at an awesome
           | restaurant that evening, can you book a table for me for our
           | meeting next week."
        
             | throw384624 wrote:
             | I would love if Apple created a personal iCloud device too.
             | 
             | Let me sync my information to something local.
             | 
             | I know there's Nextcloud, but it's not as seamless as
             | iCloud.
        
               | tough wrote:
               | We should get the European Union to force Apple to offer
               | an Icloud Local server thingy
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Yes and we should also have EU regulators at every design
               | meeting for every company. They did such a good job with
               | the GDPR making the user experience better on the web
        
             | tomcam wrote:
             | Apparently, you are not an actual user of Siri, because I
             | get jack shit out of her. speech to text is infinitely
             | worse than the first week Siri was released.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | Siri has felt like abandonware for years. My hope is
               | something like a ChatGPT model is its replacement soon.
        
             | igammarays wrote:
             | This is already available with Rewind.ai + their GPT plugin
             | and I've already asked such questions and got good answers.
        
               | edgyquant wrote:
               | Thats not what's being discussed though, which is Siri
               | having these abilities built in
        
               | samwillis wrote:
               | Rewind.ai looks awesome, but only like 10% of what I'm
               | thinking Apple could do.
        
             | mattl wrote:
             | Sounds like Knowledge Navigator
             | 
             | https://youtu.be/umJsITGzXd0
        
             | blitzar wrote:
             | "Playing _Our Last Summer_ by ABBA on Apple Music "
        
             | nicbou wrote:
             | I _love_ Steve Jobs ' "bicycle for the mind" metaphor, and
             | what you describe is the best possible example of this
             | concept. A computer that does that would enable us to do so
             | much more.
             | 
             | This is the sort of AI I want; a true personal assistant,
             | not a bullshit generator.
        
               | y04nn wrote:
               | It appears that we are tantalizingly close to have the
               | perfect voice assistant. But for some inexplicable
               | reason, it does not exist yet. Siri was introduced over a
               | decade ago, and it seems that its development has not
               | progressed as anticipated. Meanwhile, language models
               | have made significant advancements. I am uncertain as to
               | what is preventing Apple, a company with boundless
               | resources, from enhancing Siri. Perhaps it is the absence
               | of competition and the duopoly maintained by Apple and
               | Google, both of whom seem reluctant to engage in a
               | competitive battle within this domain.
        
               | lamontcg wrote:
               | It is probably a people problem. The people who really
               | understood Siri have probably left, the managers left
               | running it are scored primarily on not making any
               | mistakes and staying off the headlines. Any engineers who
               | understand what it would take to upgrade it aren't given
               | the resources and spend their days on maintenance tasks
               | that nobody really sees.
        
               | slowmovintarget wrote:
               | It's more likely a perverse incentive problem. Voice
               | activated "assistants" weren't viewed as assistance for
               | end users. They were universally viewed as one of two
               | things: A way of treating the consumer as a product, or a
               | feature check-box.
               | 
               | That Siri went from useful to far less useful had more to
               | do with the aim to push products at you rather than
               | actually accomplishing the task you set for Siri. If
               | Apple actually delivers an assistant that works locally,
               | doesn't make me the product, and generally makes it
               | easier to accomplish _my_ tasks, then that 's a product
               | worth paying for.
               | 
               | When anyone asks "who benefits from 'AI'?" the answer is
               | almost invariably "the people running the AI." Microsoft
               | and OpenAI get more user data, and subscriptions. Google
               | gets another vehicle for attention-injection. But if I
               | run Vicuna or Alpaca (or some eventual equivalent) on my
               | hardware, I can ensure I get what I need, and that
               | there's much less hijacking of my intentions.
               | 
               | So Microsoft, if you're listening: I don't want Bing Chat
               | search, I want Cortana Local.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Doing what Siri is doing is not rocket science. It's a
               | simple intent based system where you give it patterns to
               | understand intents and you trigger some API based on it.
               | 
               | Once you have the intents parsing, it should be just a
               | matter of throwing man power at it and giving it better
               | intents.
               | 
               | Yes, I have experience with building on top of such a
               | system.
        
               | IOT_Apprentice wrote:
               | It appears to be a leadership issue. Tim Cook wanted
               | butts in seats at the corporate site, the Siri/AI Guys
               | wanted to still work from home.
               | 
               | And the AI team seemed to NOT want to be hidden in terms
               | of discussion of industry ideas with peers at other
               | firms.
               | 
               | They went back to google. Magic 8 ball time.
               | 
               | Who have they hired since then?
               | 
               | Who knows?
               | 
               | Who in leadership is allowing them to succeed?
               | 
               | Results unclear try again.
               | 
               | Who has a clear vision of why to build ALL ONBOARD the
               | users device?
               | 
               | Results unclear try again.
        
             | bredren wrote:
             | > All local, no cloud, complete privacy.
             | 
             | This is already felt in use of Stable Diffusion, where M2
             | is fully capable offline.
             | 
             | Anything that can be done to reduce the need to "dial out"
             | for processing protects the individual.
             | 
             | It erodes the ability of business and governmental
             | organizations to use knowledge of otherwise private matters
             | to target and influence.
             | 
             | The potential of moving a HQ LLM like GPT to the edge to
             | answer everyday questions reminds me of my move from Google
             | to DDG as my default search engine.
             | 
             | Except it's even a bigger deal than that. It reduces
             | private data exhaust from search to zero, making going to
             | the net a backup plan instead of a necessity.
             | 
             | Apple delivering this on device is a major threat to
             | OpenAI, which will have to provide some LLM model with
             | training that Apple can't or won't.
             | 
             | Savvy users will begin to leer at having to produce queries
             | over the wire, feeding valuable data (proven by ShareGPT)
             | 
             | Even then, Apple will likely chose to or be forced to open
             | up on device AI to allow user contributed apps like LORAs
             | which would ask the question why does OpenAI need to exist?
             | 
             | Also fascinating the potential to do this at the Server
             | level for enterprise. If Apple produced a stack for
             | enterprise training it could replace generalized data
             | compute needs, shifting IT back to local or intranet.
        
             | precompute wrote:
             | >Think Siri+ChatGPT trained on all your email, documents,
             | browser history, messages, movements, everything. All
             | local, no cloud, complete privacy.
             | 
             | That sounds absolutely horrifying if you remove the "all
             | local" part. And that part's a pipe dream anyway. Plus,
             | when using a model you'd basically become subservient /
             | limited to the type of data in the model, which would
             | necessarily abide by Apple's TOS, so a couple of hundred
             | million people would be the Apple TOS but in human form. I
             | don't understand why apple fanboys don't get this. Apple is
             | pretty shoddy when privacy is concerned. Are these apple
             | employees making these posts?
        
             | addandsubtract wrote:
             | Fat chance Apple will alow us to do this locally. More
             | like, upgrade to Apple Cloud Plus to get these features.
             | But yeah, I've also dreamt of what my Apple hardware
             | _could_ do.
        
               | fastball wrote:
               | Apple already does all existing AI stuff locally. The
               | main one being categorizing images in your Photos
               | library.
        
               | danieldk wrote:
               | Why not? They do on-device training of face recognition:
               | 
               | https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/recognizing-
               | peopl...
        
               | insane_dreamer wrote:
               | Actually Apple is much more device-first than cloud-first
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | All of my current experience with Siri tells me there is a
             | 50-50 chance of the result coming back as "Sorry, I have
             | having trouble connecting to the network" or playing a
             | random song from Apple Music.
             | 
             | Just last night, we were entertaining our toddler with
             | animal sounds. It worked with "Hey Siri, what does a goat
             | sound like?", then we were able to do horse, cow, sheep,
             | boar, and it somehow got tripped up on pig, for which it
             | responded with the Wikipedia entry and told us to look at
             | the phone for more info.
        
               | detourdog wrote:
               | The more they can move Siri on device the less that will
               | happen.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _there is a 50-50 chance of the result coming back as
               | "Sorry, I have having trouble connecting to the network"_
               | 
               | Doesn't the locally-run LLM bit solve this particular
               | grievance? I'm picturing a personal AI a la Kim Stanley
               | Robinson's _Mars_ trilogy.
        
               | basch wrote:
               | Yes. I dont understand the criticism of the current Siri
               | in this context, the point of a language model on the
               | device would be to derive intent and convert a colloquial
               | command into a computer instruction.
        
               | smileybarry wrote:
               | Today I asked Siri for the weather this week. She said
               | daytime ranges from 31C to 23C, so I then asked "on what
               | day is the temperature 31 celsius?". And, of course, what
               | I got back was "it's currently twenty seven degrees".
        
               | hn_version_0023 wrote:
               | The only requests that work consistently well for me are:
               | 
               | "Hey Siri, whats the weather?" and "Hey Siri, what the
               | X-day forecast". Everything else is a huge mess.
        
               | te_chris wrote:
               | The weather ones are so annoying: "Is it going to rain
               | today?". "It looks like it's going to rain today". "What
               | time is it going to rain today?". "It looks like it's
               | going to rain today".
        
               | dmd wrote:
               | me: hey siri weather
               | 
               | siri: The temperature is currently 54 degrees. Expect
               | clear skies starting in the evening, going down to 52
               | degrees tonight.
               | 
               | me: hey siri what's the high today
               | 
               | siri: the high today will be 84 degrees
               | 
               | me: hey siri will it rain today?
               | 
               | siri: Expect heavy thunderstorms around noon
               | 
               | Note nothing it said in the original was actually
               | wrong...
        
               | coldtea wrote:
               | > _All of my current experience with Siri tells me there
               | is a 50-50 chance of the result coming back as "Sorry, I
               | have having trouble connecting to the network" or playing
               | a random song from Apple Music._
               | 
               | Well, this is about adding ChatGPT-level smartness to
               | Siri, not just the semi-dumb assistant of yore.
        
               | wlesieutre wrote:
               | Federico Viticci's S-GPT is doing some pretty neat things
               | using Shortcuts
               | 
               | https://www.macstories.net/ios/introducing-s-gpt-a-
               | shortcut-...
               | 
               | Some examples from that blog post:
               | 
               | > I'm feeling nostalgic. Make me a playlist with 25
               | mellow indie rock songs released between 2000 and 2010
               | and sort them by release year, from oldest to most
               | recent.
               | 
               | This doesn't just return a list of songs, it will create
               | the playlist for you in Music.
               | 
               | > Check the paragraphs of text in my clipboard for
               | grammar mistakes. Provide a list of mistakes, annotate
               | them, and offer suggestions for fixes.
               | 
               | > Summarize the text in my clipboard
               | 
               | > Go back to the original text and translate it into
               | Italian
               | 
               | I haven't tried it myself, but it has other integrations
               | like "live text" where your phone can pull text out of an
               | image and then could send that to GPT to be summarized.
               | 
               | Version 1.0.2 makes improvements for using it via Siri
               | including on HomePod.
        
               | smcleod wrote:
               | Siri was so good before iOS 13, I'm not sure what they
               | did in that release but it went from around 90-95%
               | accuracy and 80-90% contextual understanding - down to
               | 70% and 75% respectively.
               | 
               | As someone who dictates more than half of their messages
               | and is an incredibly heavy user of Siri for performing
               | basic tasks I really noticed this sudden decline in
               | quality and it's never got back up there - in fact, iOS
               | 16 really struggles with many basic words. Before iOS 13.
               | I would have been able to dictate these two paragraphs
               | likely without any errors however, I've just had to edit
               | them in five places.
        
               | iknowstuff wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | I thought the lack of ability to execute on current
               | "easy" queries would indicate something about ability to
               | execute something as complicated as figuring out the
               | restaurant you ate at and making a reservation. At least
               | anytime in the next few years.
        
               | fwlr wrote:
               | I don't think it does. This isn't a hypothetical Siri v2
               | with some upgrades; it's a hypothetical LLM chatbot
               | speaking with Siri's voice. I recall one of the first
               | demonstrations of Bing's ability was someone asking it to
               | book him a concert where he wouldn't need a jacket. It
               | searched the web for concert locations, searched the web
               | weather information, picked a location that fit the
               | constraint and gave the booking link for that specific
               | ticket. If you imagine an Apple LLM that has local rather
               | than web search, it seems obvious that this exact ability
               | that LLMs have to follow complicated requests and "figure
               | things out" would be perfectly suited to reading your
               | emails and figuring out which restaurant you mean. With
               | ApplePay integration it could also go ahead and book for
               | you.
        
               | s3p wrote:
               | HN is the only place where you can get paragraphs of text
               | and comments that argue in circles about a nonexistent
               | issue.
        
               | jonathankoren wrote:
               | Yeah. It's been my experience, the longer the comment,
               | the predictably more unhinged and/or pedantic it becomes.
        
               | coldtea wrote:
               | And yet the parent makes a very specific (and correct)
               | comment, that this wont be Siri with some upgrades, but
               | Siri in the name only, with a totally different
               | architecture.
               | 
               | Whereas yours and your sibling comment are just
               | irrelevant meta-comments.
        
               | jonathankoren wrote:
               | At least the irony of this comment isn't lost on one of
               | us.
        
               | sebzim4500 wrote:
               | Aside from anything else, your claim is absurd. There are
               | huge parts of the internet dedicated to exactly that.
        
               | coldtea wrote:
               | You'd think that, but you'd be wrong.
               | 
               | Microsoft voice assistant was equally dumb as Siri, but
               | ChatGPT is another thing entirely. Wont even be the same
               | team at all, is most likely.
               | 
               | So nothing about their prior ability, or lack thereof, to
               | make Siri smart means anything about their ability to
               | execute if they add a large LLM in there.
        
               | mason55 wrote:
               | Siri today is built on what's essentially completely
               | different concepts from something like ChatGPT.
               | 
               | There are demos of using ChatGPT to turn normal English
               | into Alexa commands and it's pretty flawless. If you
               | assume Apple can pretty easily leverage LLM tech on Siri
               | and do it locally via silicon in the M3 or M4, it's only
               | a matter of chip lead time before Siri has multiple
               | orders of magnitude improvement.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | That would be a pleasant surprise!
        
               | rschoultz wrote:
               | That experience likely isn't transferable to Siri, that
               | has deeper problems. People, me included, are reporting
               | their problems with Siri, e.g. setting it to transcribing
               | what they and Siri says as text on the screen, and then
               | are able to show that given input as "Please add milk to
               | the shopping list" results in Siri responding "I do not
               | understand what speaker you refer to.", in writing.
               | 
               | Likely problems like these could be overcome, but
               | preparing better input would probably not address the
               | root cause of the problems with Siri.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | joshspankit wrote:
               | You've touched on what is probably the biggest reason I
               | don't use Siri more: Apple does not limit it to what's
               | important to me as user.
               | 
               | I have thousands of contacts, lots of photos, videos, and
               | emails, all in Apple's first-party apps and yet Siri is
               | more likely to respond with a popular song or listing of
               | news articles that's only tangentially connected to my
               | request.
        
               | Smoosh wrote:
               | > me as user
               | 
               | This becomes more complicated when Siri is the interface
               | on a homepod in a shared area. Who's data and preferences
               | should be used? Ideally it would recognise different
               | voices and give that person's data priority, but how much
               | can/should be shared between users? Where are these data
               | - they shouldn't be in the homepod, so it would have to
               | task the phone with finding the answer. I'm sure
               | something good could be done here, but it wouldn't be
               | easy.
        
               | GeekyBear wrote:
               | > All of my current experience with Siri tells me there
               | is a 50-50 chance of the result coming back as "Sorry, I
               | have having trouble connecting to the network" or playing
               | a random song from Apple Music.
               | 
               | Meanwhile, Google and Amazon have decided that the data
               | center costs of their approach just aren't worth it.
               | 
               | >Google Assistant has never made money. The hardware is
               | sold at cost, it doesn't have ads, and nobody pays a
               | monthly fee to use the Assistant. There's also the
               | significant server cost to process all those voice
               | commands, though some newer devices have moved to on-
               | device processing in a stealthy cost-cutting move. The
               | Assistant's biggest competitor, Amazon Alexa, is in the
               | same boat and loses $10 billion a year.
               | 
               | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/03/google-assistant-
               | mig...
               | 
               | Both companies made big cuts to the teams running their
               | voice assistant tech.
        
             | sroussey wrote:
             | I'm working on something very much like this!
        
           | hammock wrote:
           | Do you think it would be good/capable for audio or video
           | editing?
        
         | brookst wrote:
         | UMA may turn out to be visionary. I really wonder if they saw
         | the AI/ML trend or just lucked out. Either way, the apple
         | silicon arch is looking very strong for local AI. It's a lot
         | easier to beef up the NPU than to redo memory arch.
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | I think pretty much any multicore ARM CPU with a post ARMv8
           | ISA is looking pretty strong for local AI right now. Same
           | goes for x86 chips with AVX2 support.
           | 
           | All of them are pretty weak for local training. But having
           | reasonably powerful inferencing hardware isn't very hard at
           | all, UMA doesn't seem very visionary to me in an era of
           | MMAPed AI models.
        
             | danieldk wrote:
             | _I think pretty much any multicore ARM CPU with a post
             | ARMv8 ISA is looking pretty strong for local AI right now.
             | Same goes for x86 chips with AVX2 support._
             | 
             | Apple Silicon AMX units provide the matrix multiplication
             | performance of many core CPUs or faster at a fraction of
             | the wattage. See eg.
             | 
             | https://explosion.ai/blog/metal-performance-shaders
             | https://github.com/danieldk/gemm-benchmark#1-to-16-threads
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Yes, and generic multicore ARM CPUs can run ARM's
               | standard compute library regardless of their hardware:
               | https://github.com/ARM-software/armnn
               | 
               | Plus, the benchmark you've linked to is comparing
               | hardware accelerated inferencing to the notoriously
               | crippled MKL execution. A more appropriate comparison
               | would test Apple's AMX units against the Ryzen's AVX-
               | optimized inferencing.
        
               | danieldk wrote:
               | Nope, the benchmarks are done by disabling the MKL AMD
               | cripple (I did these benchmarks). It's not faster with
               | eg. AMD BLIS.
        
             | brookst wrote:
             | The visionary part is having a computer with 64GB RAM that
             | can be used either for ML or for traditional desktop
             | purposes. It means fewer HW SKUs, which improve scale
             | economy. And it means the same HW can be repurposed for
             | different users, versus PCs where you have to replace CPU
             | and/or GPU.
             | 
             | For raw ML performance in a hyper-optimized system, UMA is
             | not a big deal. For a company that needs to ship millions
             | of units and estimate demand quarters in advance, it seems
             | like a pretty big deal.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Is it very different from their previous desktop lineup?
               | I'm under the impression that Intel Macs can also run ML
               | models with acceleration.
        
               | brookst wrote:
               | Very different. Intel Macs had separate system RAM and
               | video RAM, like PCs.
               | 
               | Apple Silicon doesn't just share address space with
               | memory mapping, it's literally all the same RAM, and it
               | can be allocated to CPU or GPU. If you get a 96GB M2 Mac,
               | it can be an 8GB system with 88GB high speed GPU memory,
               | or a 95.5GB CPU system with a tiny bit of GPU memory.
               | 
               | Apple's GPUs are slow today (compared to state of the art
               | nvidia/etc), but if Apple upped the GPU horsepower, the
               | system arch puts them far ahead of PC-based systems.
        
       | vrglvrglvrgl wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | dzhiurgis wrote:
       | They would enable 10x more people if they allowed to use their
       | assistant with 3rd party language recognition service that
       | supports languages remaining 60% of worlds population...
        
       | tailspin2019 wrote:
       | This really is Apple at their best. In fact it's technology at
       | its best.
       | 
       | Nice to have something to comment on that doesn't elicit any
       | cynicism!
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | I still can't use it in my own hardware products. This is
         | reusability at its worst.
        
       | bkandel wrote:
       | Another underserved group of users is people with ADHD. I think a
       | "minimize distractions" mode at the OS level would be very
       | welcome by a lot of people.
        
         | dagmx wrote:
         | The OS does have focus modes as of a year or two ago. You can
         | set it up to only allow the apps and notifications you want.
         | 
         | Plus you can have multiple to suit the context you're in
        
       | tikkun wrote:
       | I wonder if the "make the buttons larger" features will also help
       | apps prepare for when we are using them on virtual reality and
       | augmented reality, where they need to be bigger and with fewer
       | options.
        
       | KyeRussell wrote:
       | I 100% believe that Apple is putting real effort into co-design
       | of these features in a way that other similarly positioned
       | companies do not.
       | 
       | As someone with a disability, these features--even those do not
       | cater to my disability--speak to me in a much more direct way
       | than the typical "let's guess what the disabled people want"
       | bucket of accessibility features.
        
       | Legtar wrote:
       | This is completely incomprehensible to me. Okay, Russia's image
       | is far from being the best now, and it's hard for many to even
       | stand next to it. But Apple does not go away and continues to
       | collect money.
       | 
       | Yes, and they speak Russian not only in the Russian Federation.
       | Almost the entire former CIS could use it, but here they cut it
       | down to only Ukrainians. Disabled people from Kazakhstan, Belarus
       | and other countries somehow guilty?
        
       | ChildOfChaos wrote:
       | Honestly without needing to personally use the accessibility
       | features, I think I might be taking a look at the new layouts,
       | because I really yearn to make my device more minimalistic, there
       | is just to much going on in modern devices.
       | 
       | But Bravo to Apple once again for doing excellent accessibility
       | features and continuing to improve them.
        
         | efields wrote:
         | Accessibility makes life better for everybody. A lot of
         | accessibility boils down to rethinking the obvious to enable
         | _more_ use cases. "Things that might make your life better."
         | Dig around in those settings and you might find your phone can
         | do things you never thought of.
        
           | kayodelycaon wrote:
           | There are so many. One feature most people don't know about
           | is macOS can speak the current time every 60, 30, or 15
           | minutes. (Settings > Control Center > Clock) It's a very old
           | feature.
           | 
           | Most people can't understand why they would want a computer
           | speaking the time, it would drive them nuts. I have ADHD and
           | no sense of time passing. It helps me offload keeping track
           | of time. (Which is otherwise continuously looking at a
           | clock.)
           | 
           | I also turn off every auto-playing feature in any app that
           | supports it. Some types of motion can be highly distracting.
           | That can trigger a panic attack if I'm constantly needing to
           | redirect my focus away from it. (If this sounds strange, it
           | causes me to feel trapped in a tiny closet. Anxiety is a
           | bitch.)
           | 
           | Google's latest video conferencing iteration lets people spam
           | flying emoji. It's a "fun" feature that is absolute hell for
           | me. Fortunately, there is a buried setting to remove it from
           | my view.
        
             | efields wrote:
             | I never thought about using that feature but I should for
             | the same reasons. I have a LCD digital clock right under my
             | monitor even tho the OS has a clock of course. But as soon
             | as I'm "immersed" in something, or the menubar is obscured
             | bc I do keep some apps fullscreen, time does not exist.
             | 
             | It also has the temp and humidity and looks attractive and
             | runs on usb: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088LZRT94/r
             | ef=ppx_yo_dt_b...
             | 
             | Its a good clock.
        
         | thiht wrote:
         | I have a habit of checking the accessibility features from time
         | to time, there's great stuff in there :)
         | 
         | My favorite is Spoken Content > Speak Screen: you can swipe
         | down with two fingers from the top of the screen and it'll read
         | the written content for you. I use it to read articles in
         | Safari while I'm brushing my teeth or walking my dog
        
       | DrScientist wrote:
       | Computers being able to impersonate your voice is clearly an area
       | that is a danger in AI.
       | 
       | The tech has been around a while, but is getting better and
       | better.
       | 
       | If I had a job as a voice-over artist, I'd be worried.
        
       | qgin wrote:
       | These features that will be built into the operating system are
       | things that otherwise would have cost someone hundreds to
       | thousands of dollars before... if they even existed at all.
       | 
       | I love that Apple chooses to invest in these areas of
       | accessibility that are extremely difficult to make sustainable
       | businesses out of without charging users exorbitant sums.
        
       | jmbwell wrote:
       | Aside: "Apple Newsroom _needs your permission_ to enable desktop
       | notifications. " Boo. Boo this page.
       | 
       | It only needs that permission if I _want_ to enable that. C 'mon,
       | Apple. You know better than this.
        
       | Alifatisk wrote:
       | Didn't apple work on their own search engine? What happened to
       | that?
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | It's not unusual for Apple to build the pieces it needs for
         | "moonshot" efforts (e.g. a search engine good enough to replace
         | Google) over the course of many years. Apple likely started
         | thinking about this over a decade ago, and you can see
         | precursors in things like Siri suggestions and search, App
         | Store and Apple Music search, Apple Photos search, etc.
        
       | elicash wrote:
       | I'm not the target audience for these features, and don't want to
       | speculate on behalf of others, so I'll just focus on my own
       | needs...
       | 
       | Live Speech: I actually answer unknown phone numbers (usually)
       | and would like text-to-speech on my calls because I've started to
       | get concerned about what can be done, fraud-wise, with even small
       | samples of my voice. So in this case, using another's voice is
       | fine, even preferred. (Edit: I suppose I'd actually prefer a
       | voice-changer here, which is less related to this accessibility
       | feature. But I think Apple is unlikely to do that.)
       | 
       | Personal Voice: When my girlfriend texts me when I'm out with my
       | AirPods, I think we'd both like me to hear her message in her
       | actual voice rather than Siri's. This feature doesn't allow for
       | that yet, but the pieces are all there.
       | 
       | Finally, Apple needs to detect and tell me when I'm listening to
       | a synthetic voice, including when it's not being generated by
       | Apple. There's fraud potential here. I'm clearly excited about
       | this tech, but I want to know more on this front.
        
         | jansommer wrote:
         | A voice changer for unknown or blocked caller id's is actually
         | a great idea. Just looked in F-Droid and the Play Store, where
         | there seems to be no such app. Preventing callers from sampling
         | my voice is a concern I did not know I have.
        
         | thiht wrote:
         | > Personal Voice: When my girlfriend texts me when I'm out with
         | my AirPods, I think we'd both like me to hear her message in
         | her actual voice rather than Siri's.
         | 
         | That's genius!
        
           | smith7018 wrote:
           | It's also hard to do privacy-wise unless every text message
           | she sends pre-generates the audio message using her on-device
           | voice and then attaches it. That would make every message use
           | 10x as much bandwidth, storage, and battery power. (10x is a
           | random number but you get the point). Seems cute but really
           | impractical.
        
             | tshaddox wrote:
             | 10x compared to what though? FaceTime (and similar) is
             | already full-duplex video and audio, which I have to
             | imagine is at least another 10x on top of what you're
             | describing. Are we really budgeting our computer resources
             | so strictly that this would even show up as more than a
             | rounding error?
        
             | kevinsundar wrote:
             | I would think that your phone could request audio messages
             | from the sender only when necessary. They already sync
             | things like your DND status to show others so this would
             | just be another flag. Messages could also then alert the
             | sender that their message may be read aloud in their
             | Personal Voice. Or maybe allow turning this on per
             | conversation.
        
           | packetlost wrote:
           | I think I'd rather just eliminate the ringing portion of a
           | phone call (when I have airpods in) and instead just let a
           | trusted list of contacts talk directly into my ear (1-way)
           | until I "answer" and open up a 2-way channel.
        
             | RandallBrown wrote:
             | Not sure if you ever had a Nextel phone, but they had a
             | cellular walkie talkie feature for awhile. It was pretty
             | popular in my high school circa 2003, but I remember kinda
             | hating it.
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | The "answer" button seems to serve to also say "I'm ready
             | to listen" as much as it does to say "I'm ready to say".
             | IMO this kind of goal is better covered by voice messages,
             | or, at least, starting with a voice message. This allows
             | the receiver to pick when they are ready to hear it
             | (including immediately), replay it as needed, and choose
             | when they respond (if at all). Many of these are benefits
             | for the sender as much as the receiver.
        
             | kevinsundar wrote:
             | Isn't this the walkie talkie feature built into the Apple
             | Watch? Could be ported over to iPhone.
        
           | hosteur wrote:
           | Also a bit creepy.
        
         | smileybarry wrote:
         | > Finally, Apple needs to detect and tell me when I'm listening
         | to a synthetic voice.
         | 
         | There's already some version of this in "Hey Siri" detection --
         | if I record myself with a prompt and play it back, my HomePod
         | briefly wakes up at the "Hey Siri" but turns off mid-prompt. I
         | guessed it was some loudspeaker detection using the microphone
         | array, but it could be a mix of both?
        
         | kwertyoowiyop wrote:
         | I was thinking it would be fun just to have Siri use a Personal
         | Voice, but your idea is better! And it could just offer to make
         | your Personal Voice data available along with your Contact
         | picture.
        
           | bnj wrote:
           | While that sounds like it would unlock some very cool
           | experiences it also scares me to think about the potential
           | abuses of making personalized voice models fairly easily
           | available. It seems like the sort of thing that would need to
           | stay secure on your own device. It would be great to see some
           | kind of middle ground where a text to speech mechanism would
           | generate audio output and send that, rather than make the
           | model itself available.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | somebody78978 wrote:
         | > When my girlfriend texts me when I'm out with my AirPods, I
         | think we'd both like me to hear her message in her actual voice
         | rather than Siri's
         | 
         | And then you can use voice to text to text her back, and she
         | can hear it in your voice! It's just like a phone call from 30
         | years ago, but one that requires infinitely more processing
         | power!
        
           | elicash wrote:
           | Genuinely funny reply. But (a) whether I prefer typing or
           | speaking, and (b) whether I prefer reading or hearing, is
           | very context-dependent and might not be the same for the
           | person at the other end -- and so yeah I think having
           | flexibility there is good! If I'm on AirPods and not on my
           | phone, I'd like to hear the message. CarPlay, too. When
           | actively on my phone, I prefer to type, even if on AirPods.
           | CarPlay, I shouldn't probably be typing ever. So yeah,
           | generating text and speech simultaneously and having the end
           | result be situational is in fact a good thing.
           | 
           | It's worth noting this is already how iPhones work and people
           | already love it. What I'm suggesting additionally is
           | substituting Siri's voice for a DIFFERENT customized
           | synthetic voice in a very specific circumstance. I'm not
           | advocating for using synthetic voices where there currently
           | aren't any here.
        
           | Someone wrote:
           | On the plus side it would use less bandwidth. That phone call
           | from 30 years ago probably used (ballpark) 64kilobits/second.
           | This could use a lot less and have higher audio quality.
           | 
           | See it as data compression on the wire.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | _It 's just like a phone call from 30 years ago, but one that
           | requires infinitely more processing power!_
           | 
           | And latency!
        
           | throwaway54_56 wrote:
           | > It's just like a phone call from 30 years ago
           | 
           | Disagree that it's the same at all. Sending discrete messages
           | at your leisure is quite a different experience than a real-
           | time conversation.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _It 's just like a phone call from 30 years ago, but one
           | that requires infinitely more processing power_
           | 
           | There are folks who couldn't, for a variety of reasons, do
           | that thirty years ago. This feature is for them. The rest of
           | us get to _e.g._ more naturally text a response to a call
           | we're listening into on a flight.
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | Can't you already do that with iMessage's voice delivery
             | feature?
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _Can 't you already do that with iMessage's voice
               | delivery feature?_
               | 
               | Voice memos? No. I would have to, at some point, speak
               | it. If you're referring to text-to-speech, there is a
               | difference between having your speech read in a different
               | voice and your own.
        
         | MourYother wrote:
         | > When my girlfriend texts me when I'm out with my AirPods, I
         | think we'd both like me to hear her message in her actual voice
         | rather than Siri's.
         | 
         | Other consequences of this feature:
         | 
         | - typos and autocorrect become even more hilarious
         | 
         | - you can still use her voice after you break up; heck, you
         | probably don't ever need to date the person
         | 
         | - at this point: why wouldn't you pick Scarlett Johansson?
        
           | microtherion wrote:
           | > you can still use her voice after you break up
           | 
           | Which is potentially quite problematic as you could abuse
           | this for all sorts of social engineering purposes.
        
         | masklinn wrote:
         | > Personal Voice: When my girlfriend texts me when I'm out with
         | my AirPods, I think we'd both like me to hear her message in
         | her actual voice rather than Siri's. (This feature doesn't
         | allow for that yet, but the pieces are all there.)
         | 
         | Neat idea, same with carplay, having it reliably imitate the
         | voice of the person who sent the message would make it a lot
         | nicer.
         | 
         | Though they would need to get all the TTS and intonation right
         | first, which IME is not the case, I think having the right
         | voice but the wrong intonation entirely would be one hell of an
         | uncanny valley.
        
           | NoGravitas wrote:
           | When my computer talks to me, it needs to be in Majel
           | Barrett's voice. Anything else is just not acceptable.
        
             | xen2xen1 wrote:
             | Surely Shatner has sold his voice already like Bruce Willis
             | did? I'd pay to hear my morning information read in the
             | voice of the shat, in the format of a captain's log.
        
       | devinprater wrote:
       | I wish they'd have a year of fixing accessibility bugs instead of
       | making feature after feature. Like they had one release of 16
       | where if you opened the notification center with a Braille
       | display connected, which is crucial for Deaf-Blind people, the
       | display would disconnect. This was brought up during betas, but
       | it still made it into production. Now there's this bug where if
       | you're reading a book with your Braille display, after a page or
       | two you can't scroll down a line to continue reading. Also
       | they've been working on a new speech platform, and it's pretty
       | buggy.
       | 
       | I'm not saying Android is any better. We get a new Braille HID
       | standard, in 2018, and the Android OS doesn't support it yet. So
       | what does the TalkBack team have to do? Graft drivers for each
       | Braille HID display into TalkBack, Android's screen reader like
       | VoiceOver, with another driver coming in TalkBack 14 cause of
       | course they can't update Android Accessibility suite like they do
       | Google Maps, Google Drive, Google Opinion Rewards, and even
       | Google Voice gets an update every few weeks. I mean, the
       | accessibility suite is not a system app. If it were, it could
       | just grab Bluetooth access and do whatever. But it's not, so it
       | should be able to be updated far more frequently than it is. It's
       | sad that Microsoft out of all these big companies that'll talk
       | and talk and talk, which doesn't always include Apple, that has
       | HID Braille support in the OS. Apple has HID Braille support too.
       | Google doesn't, though, neither in Android or ChromeOS. They just
       | piggy-back off of BRLTTY for all their stuff.
        
         | specialist wrote:
         | Organizationally, I'd love a separate "cleaning crew", whose
         | primary job is chewing thru the back log. Outside of the
         | release cycle.
         | 
         | There's dozens of us who revel in polish, fit, and finish.
        
         | latexr wrote:
         | It's not just accessibility, everything about their operating
         | systems is crawling with bugs piling up on each other. They
         | have bugs in Passwords, bugs in Shortcuts, bugs in permissions,
         | bugs in Clock... I can no longer even trust that setting an
         | alarm will be done for the correct time.
        
         | thfuran wrote:
         | It seems like just about the whole industry is massively over-
         | prioritizing feature delivery over bug fixing and UX polish.
        
         | w10-1 wrote:
         | "if you opened the notification center with a Braille display
         | connected"
         | 
         | This sounds obvious, but imagine all the combinations of all
         | the features that can interact, and then imagine having to test
         | them all manually, because there's no automated model for
         | specific Braille displays.
         | 
         | For decades, integration testing teams outnumber developers.
         | It's just a hard problem, particularly at Apple's scale. It's
         | not unlikely that there are only 10's of users experiencing a
         | bug (though this one likely has thousands), and that it would
         | take doubling or tripling the size of teams to find all these
         | bugs before release.
        
           | dotancohen wrote:
           | OP is taking about fixing issues that the users already found
           | and reported.
        
       | scosman wrote:
       | The is is amazing. I have a non speaking person in my life and
       | the idea of them being able to create their own unique voice is
       | so powerful. Stephen Hawkins kept his voice synth years after
       | better tech was available because he wanted to keep his voice.
       | 
       | If anyone here is interested-in or working-on open-source tech
       | for the non speaking please reach out. I'm building tech that
       | uses LLMs and Whisper.cpp to greatly reduce the amount of typing
       | needed. What apple has here is great, it still requires typing in
       | real-time to communicate. Many of the diseases that take your
       | voice also impact fine motor control, so tools to be expressive
       | with minimal typing are super important. Details (and link to
       | GitHub projects) here:
       | https://scosman.net/blog/introducing_voicebox
        
       | mouzogu wrote:
       | I put a white wallpaper on the iPad because of my astigmatism,
       | and the clock is invisible because the colours dont inverse like
       | Android.
       | 
       | The icons and toolbar items do not scale up to respect my
       | accessibility display/font settings.
       | 
       | even windows 10 allows me fine grained control over all UI sizing
       | elements. but Apple apparently has other priorities.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | FredPret wrote:
         | Does Invert Colors not work for you? Settings -> Accessibility
         | -> Display & Text Size -> Classic Invert or Smart Invert
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | mouzogu wrote:
           | I will try thanks
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | You can also configure the Accessibility Shortcut (triple
             | click on side button) to toggle it on demand.
        
             | FredPret wrote:
             | On the same page is a Zoom option that gives you a
             | magnifying pane you can move around, and I know there's a
             | way to increase the system font size as well.
        
         | knolan wrote:
         | I've just set a white wallpaper on my iPad and the clock and
         | date are displayed as block on white. On my dark wallpaper the
         | clock and date are displayed inverted as white. This works with
         | dark or light mode also with background dimming on or off.
        
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