[HN Gopher] Notes on rarely-seen game mechanics
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       Notes on rarely-seen game mechanics
        
       Author : luu
       Score  : 116 points
       Date   : 2023-05-14 21:09 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.plover.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.plover.com)
        
       | corysama wrote:
       | Kojima made a GBA game about a vampire hunter who was stronger in
       | the daylight. The cartridge featured a light sensor that could
       | detect if you were playing it out in the sun.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boktai:_The_Sun_Is_in_Your_Han...
        
         | snowram wrote:
         | Pointless rambling but I am tired of Kojima being titled as the
         | sole creator every time he is involved in a game. This cult of
         | personality is silly.
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | "Auteur theory": somewhat valid, but definitely hides a lot
           | of real creative input by a lot of people.
        
             | atoav wrote:
             | A game, much like a film, is usually a collective effort.
             | Most people don't even have the eyes to see the individual
             | parts that flow into such a work.
        
           | TonyTrapp wrote:
           | Game creators are also annoyed by it. ;) https://pbs.twimg.co
           | m/media/EFGyOnLWsAA0GF3?format=jpg&name=...
        
             | Minor49er wrote:
             | How ironic
             | 
             | If anyone else is a fan of the original Deus Ex, one of the
             | writers for it, Sheldon Pacotti, has been writing science
             | fiction for years:
             | 
             | http://sheldonpacotti.com/
        
               | tpoacher wrote:
               | I read Demiurge right after I played the original Deus Ex
               | for that reason. It was a masterpiece.
               | 
               | Haven't had the chance to read anything by Chris Todd yet
               | (the writer/curator of all the snippets you come across
               | within the game, as opposed to the plot itself), but I
               | remember enjoying his in-game style a lot too at the
               | time.
        
             | LelouBil wrote:
             | Great quote
        
           | AlexandrB wrote:
           | It's not ideal, but it's better than crediting the game
           | entirely to the publisher. Talking about studios can be
           | useful, but then you have to include a year or something
           | since the make up a studio can change radically over time.
           | There are definitely people in the industry that have an
           | outsized influence or a particular style/flavor to their
           | output.
        
             | waboremo wrote:
             | I would argue that it isn't better than crediting the game
             | to the studio. People can look into the game's credits to
             | see who actually worked on it. However when everyone keeps
             | going "Bob made this game", nobody bothers looking into who
             | else. They just become a deity of creation.
        
         | orbital-decay wrote:
         | This is a questionable mechanic - I'd even say a useless
         | gimmick that adds nothing substantial to the gameplay.
         | 
         | Dean Hall, the creator of the viral survival sandbox mod DayZ,
         | was obsessed with realism-based immersion, and also tried
         | something similar in his game in 2012. One of the updates tied
         | the in-game time to the real time at the location of the server
         | you were connected to. It also made the moonless and/or cloudy
         | nights _impenetrably_ dark, even GPU gamma correction wasn 't
         | able to help you see anything. Considering that the majority of
         | players played the game in the evening, that the game was set
         | in the fictional Balkan country (they only had an hour or so of
         | twilight at best), and that the night vision device was a top-
         | tier item hard to obtain in a survival sandbox, the majority of
         | players just played on servers in distant timezones, preferring
         | huge latencies to playing in the dark.
         | 
         | The update was reverted shortly after that, as it was obvious
         | that it degraded the gameplay quality immensely.
        
           | ttymck wrote:
           | You've made quite the generalization based on one example of
           | a real time MMO. I still acknowledge the artistry behind it
           | in the case of DayZ, and it's even more interesting within
           | the context of Kojima's career.
        
             | BizarroLand wrote:
             | If the game was designed for it, I could see the advantage
             | of having a synchronous day/night cycle in game for a few
             | reasons.
             | 
             | For instance, an RPG where your time of day combined with
             | in game locations could change what enemies spawn, or
             | characters that get sleepy and less capable after so long,
             | but it should also be able to cause unique time events to
             | happen, and not just spooky Halloween season or Xmas
             | spectacular, either.
        
         | autoexec wrote:
         | Sure you'd be stronger, but for those playing without a
         | backlight you'd also be nearly blind. The GBA SP would spare
         | you from struggling to make out anything on the GBA screen
         | under direct sunlight, but the cartage also went in at the
         | bottom facing you and the floor, not at the top facing the
         | outside world which might have made the sensor less effective.
        
           | everdrive wrote:
           | The original wide GBA, as well as the first run of the SP had
           | a reflective screen, and would look wonderful in direct
           | sunlight. It's only the second gen of the SP which had a
           | backlight (rather than a front light) and could not perform
           | in the sun.
        
             | xyzzy_plugh wrote:
             | Indeed, the original solution for the GBA was a peripheral
             | lamp to illuminate the screen just like natural light: The
             | Worm Light
             | 
             | It's almost as if the peripheral port was made for it.
        
             | autoexec wrote:
             | > The original wide GBA, as well as the first run of the SP
             | had a reflective screen, and would look wonderful in direct
             | sunlight.
             | 
             | None of mine ever did. The best lighting seemed to be
             | sitting with a lamp behind you but with actual sun overhead
             | everything was too dark to make out.
        
           | rzzzt wrote:
           | Nicely balanced mechanic.
        
           | janderson3 wrote:
           | Oh my. I had a GBA that me and my dad modded to be backlit.
           | Boktai was so good on that system. I didn't think about how
           | lucky I was that I could play the game pretty easily.
        
       | riffraff wrote:
       | Ah there's a fairly common perception game played at fairs in my
       | home region: guess the height of the hanging ham.
       | 
       | A ham (technical, a prosciutto) is hanged on a rope and people
       | have to guess how far it is from the ground.
       | 
       | The winner takes it home, of course.
        
       | dannyeei wrote:
       | My partners family plays a version of Canasta where you start
       | dealing by picking up all the cards you think you'll need to deal
       | and if you picked it perfectly you get another 100 points.
       | 
       | It's a great addition to the game and makes it a positive to be
       | the dealer.
        
       | ZeroGravitas wrote:
       | I think the "shake box" mechanic has been used twice by Nintendo,
       | once on the DS with sound, and once on the switch with haptic
       | vibration.
       | 
       | https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Nintendo-DS/Make-10-A-journ...
       | 
       | Make 10: The Nut Tapper subgame.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm8v_WJ3Xek
       | 
       | 1-2-Switch: Ball Count
        
         | Beldin wrote:
         | Surely one of the Wario Ware games does this at least for one
         | minigame? I mean, they're chockfull of weird game mechanics.
        
       | jayd16 wrote:
       | Short-term memory seems super common. Simon is an example similar
       | to the one given, and of course there's the popular matching
       | flipped cards mechanic you see in a lot of games.
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | The Mario Party series often implemented "strange game modes"
       | where you had to do things like blow on the controller microphone
       | just enough, etc.
       | 
       | They're fun for very short party games; but with many you could
       | see how they'd be horribly annoying over an entire feature-length
       | game.
        
       | mysterydip wrote:
       | One of my favorite sites to browse when I'm looking for
       | inspiration is this site of 300 game mechanics:
       | http://www.squidi.net/three/ . Even if I don't copy something
       | verbatim, reading through them starts my brain juices flowing,
       | and I'll remix them with some of my own ideas or combine a couple
       | together to get me unstuck on a problem I'm having with one of my
       | designs.
        
         | YokoZar wrote:
         | Is there a similar list of more generic or common mechanics?
         | I've always been curious if a list that contained things like
         | "tiles-based", "roguelike", "rhythm game" would yield
         | interesting results if combined randomly.
        
       | immibis wrote:
       | Chess-but-you-can-make-your-opponent-undo-a-move-by-chopping-off-
       | your-finger sounds like something out of an Iain M. Banks novel.
        
         | TomK32 wrote:
         | Have you seen The Banshees of Inisherin? Was in cinemas earlier
         | this year.
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | John Wick made the High Table take a move back by cutting off a
         | finger.
        
         | cainxinth wrote:
         | Ha, I just finished "The Player of Games," and I agree.
        
           | cwillu wrote:
           | "I must request that we engage in a wager of the body."
        
         | AndrewOMartin wrote:
         | Chess-but-you-can-make-your-opponent-undo-a-move-once-per-game
         | might actually be viable, but I can't begin to analyse the
         | implications on strategy.
        
           | aidenn0 wrote:
           | What about N times per (2N-1) game matches? so e.g. 4 times
           | in a best-of-seven match?
        
           | somat wrote:
           | The mechanics interest me more.
           | 
           | Do you just decide to make two moves?
           | 
           | That is you make a move, opponent makes a move, you undo your
           | opponent move. Now whose turn is it? is it your turn? where
           | you have effectively moved twice, your opponents turn? but we
           | can't can just let them make the same move, that goes against
           | the spirit of the thing. So perhaps their turn but they can
           | make any move except for the one you undid.
        
             | spadros wrote:
             | I read it more as you undo their last move and your last
             | move. Then you can replay and hopefully not fall into the
             | same trap.
        
         | geminger wrote:
         | Cf. Roald Dahl's "Man from the South"
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_from_the_South
        
         | whateveracct wrote:
         | Sounds like a Kaiji arc
        
         | mjd wrote:
         | Was there a game something like that in "Consider Phlebas"? I
         | thought about mentioning it in the article but decided it
         | wasn't worth the time it would take.
        
           | Loughla wrote:
           | There were body bets in Player of Games. In consider Phlebas
           | they had the game Damage where players bet/lost lives either
           | extra people you 'owned' or your own life depending on the
           | size of the game.
        
       | drb493 wrote:
       | Seaman for dreamcast utilized a microphone in which you would
       | talk to your fish (that also would develop to grow a human head).
       | It relied on voice commands. You could praise it, scold it, order
       | it to clean its tank. In response it would insult you or ask you
       | trivia facts.
       | 
       | The game also used the dreamcast clock to age the fish even when
       | the game was not running. It had an anti-cheat mechanism where it
       | would detect if you altered the clock and would punish the
       | cheater accordingly.
        
       | michaelbuckbee wrote:
       | It's likely outside the radar of anyone on HN without kids but
       | Roblox is a wild ecosystem of game mechanic mashups that I've not
       | seen anywhere else.
        
       | lostphilosopher wrote:
       | The Metal Gear Solid boss fight with Psycho Mantis is my favorite
       | example of rarely-seen game mechanics (in this case in a video
       | game).
       | 
       | (Spoiler alert on a game from 1998.)
       | https://www.thegamer.com/metal-gear-solid-psycho-mantis-boss...
        
         | Physkal wrote:
         | Very interesting, Was there any dialog clues that hinted to
         | that specific solution?
        
           | spondylosaurus wrote:
           | IIRC, if you take long enough to figure it out, you can call
           | your "support team" in-game and they'll give you hints about
           | trying the second controller port.
           | 
           | (Also I love that this and the comment chain immediately
           | above it are both Kojima games. Can't wait to see what kind
           | of mechanics he throws at us in DS2.)
        
           | fendy3002 wrote:
           | Yes, if you die once you'll get a call telling about it. If
           | you die the third time, you'll be able to break two statues,
           | nullify his mind reading.
           | 
           | Or, from youtube said, you can defeat him without both, since
           | he'll evade seven attacks and will be hit by the eight.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | Star Tropics (A great, if quite linear, action-RPG for the NES)
         | required you to dunk the actual game manual in water to solve a
         | puzzle.
        
           | no_wizard wrote:
           | Which in the 2019 re-release they neglected to handle[0]
           | leading to people being very confused. I bet they just
           | figured everyone would google it
           | 
           | [0]: https://web.archive.org/web/20190625150528/http://www.ni
           | nten...
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | I've played it so often that I have it memorized (it helps
             | that it's a fairly famous model of jet airplane too)
        
         | evandale wrote:
         | MGS has so many cool mechanics.
         | 
         | I was in university when Snake Eater came out and I got to play
         | it when I went home during the Christmas break. I got to The
         | End fight and had to go back. When I came back during March
         | break I didn't have to win the fight because he died.
         | 
         | https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/The_End#Avoiding_the_fight
        
         | doublerabbit wrote:
         | And that of needing the games cd case for Meryl's codec if you
         | wish to proceed further in the game, iirc.
         | 
         | Otacon: "there should be a codec number on the back of the game
         | box"
         | 
         | I do enjoy when they include pseudo-reality in to character.
        
           | ender341341 wrote:
           | I hated that one, cause it wasn't game box but disk case, and
           | in game I'd just picked up a disk and spent forever trying to
           | figure out how to look at the case before looking up the
           | answer.
        
           | spondylosaurus wrote:
           | You know the PlayStation Classic mini-console that came out a
           | few years back? They incorporated that puzzle into the
           | console's packaging: the back of the PSClassic's box includes
           | thumbnails for the 20 or so games that come installed, and
           | MGS's thumbnail is just a picture of Meryl's codec convo
           | screen. It cracked me up when I first saw it.
        
         | doctorpangloss wrote:
         | 4th wall breaking stuff is cool. A few other big games that
         | break the fourth wall in boss fights: Arkham Asylum
         | (Scarecrow), Undertale (Flowey), Pony Island (Asmodeus.exe).
         | Nier does something similar.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | btilly wrote:
       | Another pain tolerance game is https://www.amazon.com/Jumpin-
       | Banana-PP1048-Shocking-Tanks/d.... If you set your controller to
       | give you a bigger shock when hit, your shots do more damage and
       | it is easier to win.
        
       | glitchc wrote:
       | > Have-to-drop-out is often a bad game mechanic
       | 
       | Tell that to Fortnite and other battle-royale games.
       | 
       | > And there's that game where two players take turns hitting each
       | other in the face until one gives up or is too battered to
       | continue -- I don't know what it's called.
       | 
       | Hilarious!
        
       | lifefeed wrote:
       | Talking about pain tolerance using "Episode 13 of Survivor:
       | Borneo" is (accidentally?) a great example, because underneath
       | the game of pain was an incredible tactical decision by Richard
       | which ultimately won him the game.
       | 
       | (The short version is there were three players left: Richard,
       | Rudy, and Kelly. Rudy was popular, Kelly was a hard competitor,
       | and Richard was sly. If Rudy made the final two, he would win
       | against either of them. Richard and Rudy had long standing deal
       | to help each other, and if Richard broke that then Rudy would
       | vote against him from the final jury, and Richard had burned
       | enough bridges that he needed every vote he could get. By Richard
       | deciding to step down, he made the bet that Kelly would win the
       | challenge and the immunity, and would vote off Rudy, because she
       | would know she couldn't win against him. So Richard made the
       | final two, against Kelly, without burning his friendship with
       | Rudy. And he won.)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | adamredwoods wrote:
       | This article was a response to:
       | https://blog.plover.com/notes/alien-poker.html
       | 
       | >> Will we ever hear about why the aliens might already know how
       | to play Go?
       | 
       | Which I found a bit more interesting (as an avid board game
       | player).
       | 
       | >> "There is a mathematics game," said the alien.... "The game
       | involves a screee--" Some word that the autopilot couldn't
       | translate. The alien raised a three-clawed hand, holding a lens-
       | shaped object. The alien's mutually opposed fingers turned it so
       | that Louis could see the different markings on each side. "This
       | is a screee. You and I will throw it upward six times each. I
       | will choose one of the symbols, you will choose the other. If my
       | symbol falls looking upward more often than yours, the artifact
       | is mine. The risks are even."
       | 
       | >> "Agreed," said Louis. He was a bit disappointed in the
       | simplicity of the game.
        
       | titoasty wrote:
       | I made one with a weird game mechanics:
       | https://store.steampowered.com/app/1778910/Let_It_Slide/
       | 
       | You have to drag to move. Sounds painful, and it is. That's
       | really weird and you have to re-learn how to move your character,
       | which can be frustrating and show how used we are to standard
       | movements. After a few minutes you get used to it and it becomes
       | fun.
       | 
       | I made it when I researched how to "physically" play differently.
        
       | LanceH wrote:
       | It's not quite pain tolerance, but puts the competitor in duress
       | and wastes their time:
       | 
       | In the winter sport of biathlon (skiing and shooting), if a
       | target is missed, there are penalty laps around a small loop
       | before they can continue. It's partly a time penalty, but also
       | just uses up more of their reserve.
       | 
       | Then there is the steeplechase which is basically running around
       | the track with the misery of running in wet shoes.
       | 
       | Or maybe all of running, really. I was in a running club years
       | ago. Professional coach, and athletes from high schoolers to
       | hobbyists to the world record holder in the 5k. We were at
       | breakfast and one of the hobbyists asked when it stopped hurting
       | so much. The pros laughed and said, "It never stops hurting. It's
       | about making them hurt more."
       | 
       | Now that I think of it, my kids have seen great success in
       | wrestling from the same approach of just being more willing to be
       | miserable than their opponents. It's not simply a matter of being
       | more fit, either. People just give up due to pain at different
       | points.
        
       | aidenn0 wrote:
       | Definitely had friends play the "See who can hold your hand in a
       | candle flame the longest"
       | 
       | Also, drywall bingo: there's a wall of drywall that is about to
       | be demolished. Pick a spot near the middle of the wall and
       | headbutt it. If you hit a stud, you lose.
        
       | akuchling wrote:
       | Another perception game is Dive
       | (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/304324/dive), which has a
       | stack of translucent plastic sheets. Some of these sheets have
       | silhouettes of sea creatures on them (fish, sharks, even a whale)
       | and you need to estimate how many sheets down that shark is.
        
       | haizhung wrote:
       | A game involving pain tolerance is called ,,pain station" and
       | e.g. playable in the computer games Museum in Berlin.
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PainStation
       | 
       | Each time your opponent scores a hit in pong against you, you get
       | an electric shock. The person first letting to of the metal
       | handle delivering the shocks loses.
        
         | latchkey wrote:
         | Such a great scene:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI9_cLu5-JY
        
         | Karellen wrote:
         | > Dave continues, discussing a P.K. Dick story in which the
         | characters take turns holding their fingers in a cigarette
         | lighter. In the story, they're not burned, because Dick, but
         | you could imagine playing this as a brutal game in our non-Dick
         | universe. In fact I thought I might have heard of people
         | playing exactly this game, but I'm not sure.
         | 
         | Reminds me of Lawrence of Arabia:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvQViPBAvPk
         | 
         | > Ow. It damn well hurts!
         | 
         | > Certainly it hurts.
         | 
         | > Well what's the trick then?
         | 
         | > The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts.
        
           | yamtaddle wrote:
           | Given the amount of influence the book _Seven Pillars of
           | Wisdom_ pretty clearly had on _Dune_ , I wouldn't be a bit
           | surprised if that's a case of the film _Lawrence of Arabia_
           | (1962) influencing _Dune_ (1965)--that little exchange could
           | plausibly be the seed of inspiration that became the Gom
           | Jabbar scene.
        
         | throwbadubadu wrote:
         | Also heat and get your hand whipped.. and the hand whipping is
         | actually the most painful and leaves a permanent mark for few
         | days (so you can keep mocking your visiting friends/colleagues
         | for the rest of their trip :D).
         | 
         | See it in action here: https://youtu.be/JEfCGsXIeRY
        
       | Beldin wrote:
       | Eternal Darkness for the gamecube had a sanity meter. A bit
       | reduced sanity and you'd literally start seeing things. Even
       | lower and things got weirder... including faking a gamecube
       | reset, faking lowering the volume on your tv (with faked on-
       | screen volume bar), etc. The list of examples [1] is beautiful.
       | 
       | [1] https://eternaldarkness.fandom.com/wiki/Sanity_Effects
        
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