[HN Gopher] Fairbuds XL review: noise-cancelling headphones you ...
___________________________________________________________________
Fairbuds XL review: noise-cancelling headphones you can fix
Author : aquir
Score : 213 points
Date : 2023-05-11 10:50 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| mgsloan2 wrote:
| I love this concept! When I got tired of replacing headphones in
| the past I got some beyerdynamic dt770 modded by jfunk.org. They
| are repairable and durable. Though they are not natively
| bluetooth, can use a short cable + qudelix 5k to make them
| wireless. No noise cancelling.
|
| Would be very nice to have durable / repairable noise cancelling
| headphones. These headphones from fairbuds look great overall,
| but I'm skeptical of the durability of the hinges.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| These look really interesting.
|
| I'm curious if there are plans to sell these to American
| customers. Right now (IIUC) their website only ships to EU
| countries.
| somesortofthing wrote:
| I'm in the same boat. I got all the way to the checkout page
| before realizing that they won't ship to the US. Seriously
| considering buying these and asking a friend in the EU to ship
| them to me in hopes of them making spare parts available in the
| US before I break anything. Probably won't do it, but I've been
| waiting for years for a pair of bluetooth headphones that I
| don't have to constantly worry about breaking.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| I really hope they manage US availability some time soon. The
| FairPhone seems like it'd be a really good Android app dev test
| device, representing the average Android device well, being
| repairable (when the battery inevitably dies due to being
| plugged in frequently), and I would imagine being more friendly
| to third-party Android distros once official OS updates stop
| being provided.
| handwarmers wrote:
| I have been fixing my Bose QC 45 for many years too
| [deleted]
| m-axiom wrote:
| Qc45 were released on April 4th 2022
| r00fus wrote:
| Have QC45s. Bought in Jan, microphone died in Mar, took all
| of 2 weeks to replace (door to door) and I'm still using but
| wary of them now.
|
| Would have bought FairbudsXL instead as it's not clear that
| the QC45s have any benefit over them
| handwarmers wrote:
| Sorry, meant 35. I had to lookup which model looked like mine
| and got confused
| progbits wrote:
| Maybe OP meant 35. I have those since they came out (2016)
| and they are still going strong with daily use. I've replaced
| the earpads once for about $15 in parts. Battery life is
| reduced of course but not by much and I plan to replace those
| too.
|
| Whenever they break this looks like a good replacement.
| handwarmers wrote:
| Same here. Also got a wire that i use most of the time when
| i am in the office so i don't even notice the battery life
| degradation
| fnord77 wrote:
| QC45 have been out for only 1.5 years
| userbinator wrote:
| I see the point of the "fair" and "repairable" advertising for
| smartphones that usually have far more proprietary and limited-
| production parts, but headphones aren't exactly in the same
| situation. Almost all parts of them are already widely available,
| so much that you can easily make your own:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32375128
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| I've got a set of 6 year old $60 taotronics headphones that I
| just replaced the earpads on. Took 5 minutes and they use generic
| earpads available from AE or Amazon. The battery is soldered in,
| but is a generic lipo foil pouch accesible behind a screwed
| together earcup so I won't need to find a specific form factor or
| break any glued together stuff to get at it.
|
| I don't see this product as more "repairable" than other
| products. I do see that it has a lot of modules that are designed
| to be thrown away and replaced easily without throwing away
| unaffected parts.
|
| Repairable? Not in the strictest sense. I don't see schematics
| and board layouts for repair people. Are all components 0805 or
| bigger so a blown capacitor can be easily replaced? No way to
| know, because they haven't published how you would go about
| actually diagnosing and repairing failed components instead of
| tossing and replacing the module they are housed in.
|
| Honestly, for the price you might as well just pick up a nice set
| from a company like Bose that has a service and repair
| department, and a demonstrated commitment to longevity and
| quality.
| dry_soup wrote:
| The classic first reply to the Show HN: Dropbox thread lives on
| in this comment
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863
| dang wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29178442
| lozenge wrote:
| Do you think Bose actually repair anything? I always assumed
| they just replace it and recycle/destroy the old one.
| mh- wrote:
| I would assume they act similarly to Apple: quickly send you
| a refurbished replacement, and then go refurbish the one you
| sent in. For the small percentage of devices they receive
| that aren't able to be refurbished, they recycle/destroy.
| Throw73849 wrote:
| >Weight: 330g
|
| That is like Apple AirPods, those are very heavy and extended
| wear gets you tired.
|
| And most over-ear headphones are already pretty fixable. Most
| brands provide spare parts for like 20 years.
| jasonlotito wrote:
| > And most over-ear headphones are already pretty fixable. Most
| brands provide spare parts for like 20 years.
|
| Please, point me to the bluetooth/wireless noise-cancelling
| over-ear headphones that are pretty fixable at a level
| comparable to that of the Fairbuds here?
|
| Note, it must meat _ALL_ the criteria I listed. Missing
| anything makes answer worthless. e.g. If it offers everything
| except for bluetooth or noise-cancelling means it 's worthless
| in this context, and cannot be considered.
| Throw73849 wrote:
| I meant wired headphones.
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| Bose has repair service. It isn't self-service, so it depends
| if your goal is throwing less shit away, or being able to
| service your own devices.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| 'Repair service' often just means they'll throw it away for
| you and ship you a new one.
| jasonlotito wrote:
| I'm familiar with Bose's repair service. This is not the
| same as Fairbuds, and does not meet the minimum
| requirements stipulated.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> That is like Apple AirPods, those are very heavy and
| extended wear gets you tired._
|
| Then maybe Fairbuds should charge 600$ to sweeten the deal.
| nixpulvis wrote:
| Not buds; disappointed.
| duxup wrote:
| > EUR249
|
| It would be interesting to know if t would be viable to make
| these for the lower end market.... Or would consumers just
| replace them anyway?
| Aachen wrote:
| Owner of a 50EUR Bluetooth headphones pair, bought 10 years
| ago. Had to resolder a connector, and the head strap got
| cracked while in my backpack but works good as new again after
| wrapping a single piece of tape around the broken spot ~five
| years ago.
|
| Kinda waiting for something unrepairable to die so I can
| finally get headphones that can pair with more than one device
| at a time. New fabric would also be nice, I'd love if that were
| sold separately. Now that I've got a USB-C smartphone (had to
| say goodbye to micro two years ago and, with that, being able
| to use literally every charger in the house), having C on
| headphones would be nice as well.
|
| Feels like a waste to just throw a working product away, so I
| haven't so far. It's not at all in a sellable state.
| duxup wrote:
| I also have replaced the earpieces on my inexpensive
| headphones multiple times.
| badpun wrote:
| Does anyone know a test where they actually measured how well the
| noise cancelling does, compared to Sony and Bose flagships?
| goofymiron wrote:
| Awesome! My current noise-cancelling headphones have lost their
| noise-cancelling ability and bluetooth connectivity due to the
| battery dying. Can only listen to music over a cable now.
|
| Would have loved to be able to replace the battery in my
| headphones and imho this should be the standard for all
| headphones/electronic devices
| pca006132 wrote:
| How old is that headphone? My $100 sennheiser works well for 5
| years now, without any sign of battery dying... Although it
| does not have noise-cancelling.
| ipsum2 wrote:
| Which headphones do you have? It's not hard to replace the
| battery in most popular brands.
| MivLives wrote:
| I hope they do a true wireless earbuds set. Those tend to need
| repairing much more frequently.
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| They already have a TWS set. Not repairable sadly
|
| https://shop.fairphone.com/en/true-wireless-stereo-earbuds
| martin_a wrote:
| They already have those:
| https://shop.fairphone.com/de/accessories/true-wireless-ster...
|
| While I don't see spare parts for those, they claim to be "100%
| electronic waste neutral". Probably much harder/impossible to
| repair due to the form factor though, not sure.
| MivLives wrote:
| They have a 1/10 from iFixit on the repairability score.
| Aachen wrote:
| Not their only goal btw. Besides repairability, they also
| source from sustainable mines/suppliers (so far as
| reasonably possible, given that virtually nobody else
| creates demand for such a thing) with normal wages and
| such. And recycling is a thing but I'm less read up on what
| they do there.
|
| I still agree that they made a product nobody asked for
| just so they could get rid of the 3.5mm jack in their
| latest smartphone, until today that is (first time I see
| someone ask for fair earbuds!), but I do want to give them
| credit for their overall mission beyond just repairability.
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Are there wireless eaebuds with a better score? I imagine
| the form factor is quite limiting.
| gizmo wrote:
| The "sustainable" and "environment friendly" choice for
| headphones are wired headphones that are built like a brick. A
| good pair will last basically forever.
|
| Of course that isn't the market these headphones are in, but
| that's also the problem. New bluetooth standard? New advances in
| noise-cancellation? You won't get them. Even if these headphones
| are great (which I doubt) they're still destined for the garbage
| heap.
|
| Wireless headphones last a couple of years, where wired
| headphones last decades. These products won't be the exception,
| and the marketing angle (fair! environmentally friendly!
| repairable!) annoys me.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Not everyone wants to go jogging or working out with wired
| headphones. They always rub on your skin or on your clothes
| (especially in winter with may thick layers) with the rubbing
| sound transferring in your ears as you move around, or worse,
| snag on something and keep tugging down on my head giving me a
| bad neck posture (when the cable is routed under my
| shirt/jaket).
|
| The freedom of TWS earbuds can spoil you for life.
|
| Why don't we make TWS manufacturers to build their shit with
| replaceable cells? Most have normal Varta lithium cells inside.
| Surely they can make them replaceable the same way they are on
| the AirTags? They would be a bit bulkier and have less water
| resistance but I don't go swimming with them and as long as
| there's no cables I'm happy to tolerate a bulkier size.
| paulryanrogers wrote:
| I second this. After trying with many different kinds, it's
| just too big a hassle. Clips at strategic places can help,
| yet only work so long. Eventually something will snag and the
| headphones will break. Separate, wireless buds are
| significantly more comfortable.
| userbinator wrote:
| I'm not sure TWS buds with the shape of an AirTag would work,
| but I do think they could make them with something like an
| easily removable cap on the stem that holds the cell in
| place.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> TWS buds with the shape of an AirTag_
|
| You missed the point. The target wasn't to shape the
| earbuds like the AirTags but to allow the user to unscrew
| the lithium cell like it's possible on the AirTags.
| stavros wrote:
| But "repairable" and "upgradable" are not synonyms. I don't
| mind that my phone isn't upgradable, but I'd like to be able to
| easily change the battery when it dies of old age.
| indrora wrote:
| Okay but tell that to the mad lads that put an 11th gen
| processor (and complete custom motherboard) in the ThinkPad
| T60 from 2006: https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/tdf
| ea2/t700_crowd...
| ip26 wrote:
| Planned obsolescence can be a good thing. Cans from the fifties
| and sixties still work. Nobody wants to use them; they are
| heavy, uncomfortable, have poor performance, need an amp to
| drive, and use huge old school connectors. They are from a time
| when music was enjoyed seated in one place.
|
| Products that fail prematurely or wear out while the owner
| still wants them are poorly designed. The pinnacle of design is
| a product that works flawlessly until the day you are through
| with it, at which point every part fails simultaneously. Such a
| product wasted no excess material in being over-engineered, nor
| consumed exotic high performance materials when they were
| unwarranted, nor repair visits, nor extra fuel in transport.
| RobotToaster wrote:
| >The pinnacle of design is a product that works flawlessly
| until the day you are through with it
|
| What about the 2nd, 3rd, etc user of the item? You're
| ignoring the second hand market.
|
| I use Cameras that were made in the 30's, they still work
| despite the original user being "through with it" some time
| ago.
| alexvoda wrote:
| > Cans from the fifties and sixties still work. Nobody wants
| to use them; they are heavy, uncomfortable, have poor
| performance, need an amp to drive, and use huge old school
| connectors. They are from a time when music was enjoyed
| seated in one place.
|
| And there is still a market for them because some people
| still want to enjoy music seated and do nothing else at the
| same time. Of course, plenty more people want something else.
| adhesive_wombat wrote:
| > The pinnacle of design is a product that works flawlessly
| until the day you are through with it
|
| Indeed, but for maximum utility, the second hand market is
| included in the "you" here. Things can continue to be useful
| to _someone_ long after the first owner is through with them.
| ip26 wrote:
| Fair, I should probably say "the public" instead of "you".
| Many things enjoy a long second-hand life before the
| public's appetite for the product is gone.
| voldacar wrote:
| By "huge old school connectors" I assume you mean the 1/4
| inch TRS connector? Which is still totally normal on non-
| cheap headphones?
| scns wrote:
| More like 5 pin DIN connectors (MIDI) but different. If you
| take a lot at old electronics you will see things for the
| first time.
| FieryTransition wrote:
| Wouldn't that be too big? A typical failure point of all
| my wired headphones/buds has been the connector or
| whatever the connector plugs into. A bigger connector
| creates more leverage, which in turn creates more force,
| which has been a problem. So for mobile usage, wireless
| audio seems to just eliminate a whole range of problems
| and failure points, so it's not all good to use physical
| connectors?
| huehehue wrote:
| Many IEM earpieces can be disconnected from the cable, so you
| can switch out between a wired connection and a bluetooth
| adapter (or replace/repair those as needed, while keeping the
| drivers). I don't use bluetooth headphones, but it seems like
| an okay compromise.
|
| I will say that going direct isn't without problems, though. I
| can't tell you how many adapters and dongles I've lost. At this
| point it feels like a wash with how much ends up in a landfill.
| I'd love for everything to support 3.5mm but that's not the
| world we live in.
| fgeiger wrote:
| I work at Fairphone but am not at all involved with the
| headphones. Still, I know that this is an issue that we thought
| about and address.
|
| Headphones should keep working even if the manufacturer goes
| bust and stops providing software support. And even if your
| battery dies and spare parts are unavailable. That is precisely
| the reason why we also sell a cable with a 3.5mm jack for these
| cans. That way, this product is long-lasting and sustainable
| even in the (hopefully hypothetical) case that we are not able
| to support them anymore.
|
| That is the best out of both worlds: you get wireless
| connectivity and ANC now. And you will be able to use them for
| as long as you would with wired ones.
| FeistySkink wrote:
| Fairphone 4 doesn't have a 3.5 mm jack beacuse reasons. So
| much for sustainability.
| stainablesteel wrote:
| i've never had a pair of wired headphones last more than ~2
| years
|
| i usually buy cheap wired ear buds that i can listen to while i
| walk to work
| jlg23 wrote:
| > New bluetooth standard? New advances in noise-cancellation?
| You won't get them.
|
| > Wireless headphones last a couple of years, where wired
| headphones last decades.
|
| Those wired headphones that last decades also won't get any
| advances made during their lifetime...
| sargun wrote:
| I used to swear by V-Moda for portable headphones. They were
| highly repairable (you could replace the pads, band, cables, and
| even the driver if you really wanted). That was, until their
| Bluetooth enabled line. It had no parts available, and even at
| that was non trivial to fix with 3rd party parts.
|
| These days, I love my beyerdynamic headphones. I've replaced the
| drivers, cables, pads, etc over their 10 year life. Only recently
| have I retired my first pair because of an upgrade. That being
| said, there's no Bluetooth / wireless, but I'm largely okay with
| that. If I really needed it, I'd be fine with an external module
| that hooks up to the cable.
| mgsloan2 wrote:
| Same path for me, I like the v-moda headphones a lot, but the
| hinge mechanism is way too fragile, and the charge port broke,
| so the bluetooth pair was my last v-moda headphone. I also
| switched to beyerdynamic and have been very happy with them.
| Only downside of this durability is that they are not foldable
| - would be great to have headphones with a high durability
| folding mechanism
| fareesh wrote:
| One of the problems with headphones is that the cups tend to
| deteriorate over time - maybe sweat or the oil from the skin or
| something reacts with it and it starts to peel. After a few
| years, the cups are no longer available for that model and so you
| end up having to buy a new one.
| chefandy wrote:
| Have you looked at 3rd party replacement pads? I've never seen
| a pair of headphones with removable pads that I couldn't get an
| aftermarket replacement for-- usually better quality than the
| factory ones. Big round ones, smaller ovular ones, memory foam,
| leather velour or whatever finishes... always managed to get
| something that fit. Just measured and looked for something
| close. They mostly seem to attach the same way.
|
| Most recently, for a discontinued Audio Technica set that did
| not match _any_ of the standard AT pads, I got replacements
| from Wicked Cushions.
| ip26 wrote:
| The irony is that you'll have better luck finding quality 3rd
| party replacements for popular, widely sold "non-repairable"
| models (Sony, Bose, etc) than boutique "repairable" cans.
| JimmyAustin wrote:
| +1 to the Wicked Cushions suggestion. The pads on my Bose
| 700s split, and the Wicked Cushion replacements were thicker
| and had better isolation than the OEM pads. They seem to have
| held up really well over the last 12 months as well.
| moonchrome wrote:
| I think there replacement pads for a bunch of them (especially
| more expensive models)
| smodo wrote:
| Dekoni Audio do great and relatively inexpensive replacements
| for ear cushion pads. I've bought pads for my Sony ANC phones
| and they are at least as good as the factory ones.
| Aachen wrote:
| I haven't had that issue, but if you know that you do, in this
| case you can buy the cups separately. After trying it out for a
| few weeks or months to make sure it's a keeper, just order
| another pair of cups?
|
| I got the impression that they've had phone parts in stock for
| a very long time, but of course that's relative to the average
| phone age and I don't know how many years you'd be expecting.
| In this case, though, if you already know what you'll need
| ahead of time... that's a cheap thing to just keep in a drawer.
| Can't go out of stock if you already have them and thereby
| double the other parts' longevity.
| bornfreddy wrote:
| Curious: do they degrade over time in drawer?
| Aachen wrote:
| The person speculated that it might be from skin oils,
| which would make sense to me more than natural degradation
| across the timespan of a few years of doing literally
| nothing to them. But yeah, I don't actually know.
| GiorgioG wrote:
| I stopped reading at "Vegan Leather". Can we call it what it is?
| Plastic.
| uxcolumbo wrote:
| Because it wouldn't be very descriptive of the material texture
| & feel.
|
| Vegan leather is basically trying to explain to the customer
| that it is like leather but not made from animal skin.
|
| In the car industry they don't say seats covered in plastic -
| they say PU leather.
|
| Vegan leather is 100% PU leather.
| detaro wrote:
| > _Vegan leather is 100% PU leather._
|
| Or PVC. Or plant fibers stabilized with PLA and resin (those
| tend to make big deal about the "plant" part). or ...
| shjake wrote:
| I'm sure most customers are more aware of fake/faux/synthetic
| leather than vegan leather.
|
| It's an attempt to rebrand it since those terms generally
| have negative historical connotations
| smoldesu wrote:
| "Corinthian leather" is also meaningless, but it certainly
| doesn't stop ad copywriters from using the term if it sounds
| fancy.
| jack_pp wrote:
| Is it plastic though? I remember seeing youtube clips where
| some companies make "vegan leather" from mushrooms. Plastic
| isn't quite the correct word here, when I think of plastic I
| think of hard plastic like in tupperware.
| pengaru wrote:
| The complaint here is that it's nebulous b.s. marketing speak
| that only means "leather-looking without involving animal
| products" ... and _probably_ some kind of plastic.
| jack_pp wrote:
| Yeah I understood his comment but plastic would be just a
| wrong word for it.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| "Plastic" generates weird hang ups in many people apparently.
|
| Looking at phone reviews, how reviewers insist on metal/glass
| material as having a "premium feel", and plastic parts getting
| described at best as "plastic but not cheap", I'd understand
| wanting to change the terminology.
|
| The stone shouldn't be thrown at the maker on this one.
| masfuerte wrote:
| Plastic is ambiguous. There are many kinds. The word you want
| is pleather.
| orthoxerox wrote:
| [flagged]
| codeulike wrote:
| Why dont we call leather what it is - chemically treated skin
|
| Because we're allowed to put words to new uses
|
| Language is open-source
| thfuran wrote:
| That doesn't mean mean every conceivable use of words is
| helpful or desirable. "Vegan leather" is an oxymoron that
| only tells you what it isn't. It's barely more useful than
| "non-wooden".
| duxup wrote:
| I know what leather is.
|
| I've no idea what "vegan leather" is. Plastic, some sort of
| plant material, something else?
| thfuran wrote:
| You can't charge nearly as much for "plastic" as for "vegan
| leather" though.
| duxup wrote:
| It's funny how that works. I remember when fake leather
| was generally thought of as a bad thing, granted at times
| it could be really plastic like and brittle.... but at
| some point it clearly became both cheaper and really
| durable.
|
| I wouldn't mind if it just said "plastic" or "imitation
| leather". It's not a bad thing to my ears.
|
| I'm remodeling my house and all the flooring I'm looking
| at looks like wood.... but it is not wood and I like
| that.
| bornfreddy wrote:
| Is the platic leather durable though? Aside from the cars
| interior, I haven't noticed one that lasted more than a
| few years. Headphones are especially annoying in that the
| covers start falling apart long before other parts break.
| Kirby64 wrote:
| It can be. The answer is 'it depends'.
|
| The polyurethane based 'vegan leather' used in many
| automotive applications is typically more durable than
| leather. It also doesn't have any of the issues with
| regular leather related to drying out (it tends to crack
| if you don't add conditioners to it).
| gyanreyer wrote:
| [flagged]
| sircastor wrote:
| Because that's not what people care about in this context.
| People are looking at this picture and they see something that
| looks like leather. You say "Vegan Leather" and the message
| they get is "No animals were killed for this product."
|
| "I want the look and feel of leather, but not the specific
| ethical concerns."
| shjake wrote:
| Faux leather or synthetic leather seem honest enough.
|
| IMHO "vegan" implies it's made from plan material and/or
| biodegradable if not edible
| userbinator wrote:
| I see "vegan" and I think "plant-based", which I doubt is the
| case here.
| detaro wrote:
| Especially since we had the term "fake leather" or
| "imitation leather" for a long time.
| krick wrote:
| > "No animals were killed for this product."
|
| Then this isn't leather. Let's just call things by their
| names.
| willis936 wrote:
| There's a term for that that's been used for decades:
| pleather, or plastic leather.
|
| Rebranding just confuses the already confusing world of
| materials. It's a violation of the cooperative principle to
| sell a product: a shitty practice and not something on brand
| with "fair" and "open". Why not rebrand it "fossil fuel-based
| leather"?
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_leather
|
| https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/fashion/when-did-we-
| start-c...
| Arch-TK wrote:
| I have to ask, as I have never bought active headphones, all my
| headphones are user servicable already. I've even had to repair
| the soldering joints on my M40x once. The cables are all
| removable. The pads are easily replacable.
|
| Are active headphones really that much harder to service? There's
| no space constraints to warrant glue, clips and ultrasonic
| welding instead of screws.
| roywashere wrote:
| I have Sony WH-1000XM3 headphones where the headphone strap
| broke after a year and a half of light use. I was only able to
| order a non-ome replacement part from a third part on a
| different continent. Would have loved to be able to order Sony
| parts
| kubectl_h wrote:
| I have replaced the pads on my Bose QuietComfort 35s 3 times in
| the last 6 years of wearing them almost daily. It's pretty easy
| to do. Beyond that they've just worked, even though I've
| dropped them a bunch of times. Still have excellent battery
| life. One of the best products I've purchased in last decade.
| ziml77 wrote:
| Pads should be easily replaceable on all headphones. They are
| the part that wears out the fastest.
| ilaksh wrote:
| I like the little wired earbuds from Walmart that cost $5-10. If
| they wear out then you just replace them.
|
| The part that usually breaks for me on headphones is the
| connection from the cable to the actual speakers. So testing the
| wires one way or another fixes it temporarily which leads me to
| always contemplate trying to repair them but I don't know exactly
| where the connection problem is.
| userbinator wrote:
| The break is usually at the plug end or where the wires enter
| the housings. I've repaired many cheap earbuds by just cutting
| off and reterminating them.
| JonathanBeuys wrote:
| What are the best noise cancelling headphones to work in cafes?
|
| Im using Bose Quiet Comfort II and I always wish they would
| cancel better.
| nickserv wrote:
| I have the Jabra evolve2 85 and, while being ridiculously
| expensive, are the best I've used.
|
| Even better for calls than the Sony's, for me anyway.
|
| At this price point and quality though it's more about personal
| preference, choosing what's most important: comfort, voice call
| quality, music quality, etc
| YVoyiatzis wrote:
| SONY WH-1000XM5 are the best of the bunch, as of now. They
| offer superlative quality noise cancellation, which I can't do
| without.
|
| I have been waiting for Apple to update its AirPods Max before
| buying them, as I've heard much to be admired about them, but
| no luck yet.
|
| SONY is the one to beat. Expensive, but unrivaled NC and sound
| fidelity.
| Uvix wrote:
| Noise cancelling only really works for constant sounds (like
| airplane engines), not for background music/chatter.
| Aachen wrote:
| Why is that btw? When I first heard of noise cancelling a few
| years ago, I figured electrons travel faster than sound waves
| (by a few orders of magnitude), so they'd just have a mic on
| the outside and speakers on the inside, amplifier in between
| and connect plus and minus the wrong way around to create an
| inverse signal. No chips with delay needed, just an analog
| signal going directly from mic to speaker. Shouldn't that
| cancel literally all sound?
|
| Apparently they, instead, all use some software solution that
| mainly works for constant noises. I don't understand why
| bigfudge wrote:
| The Sony ones worked quite well for that when I tried them.
| Was genuinely impressed
| LegitShady wrote:
| You're right that it works best for that, but headsets with
| good noise cancelling tend to have good isolation and the
| noise cancelling does do some work to suppress other sounds.
| factorialboy wrote:
| The Sony XM5's are touted by most reviewers as the best for
| noise cancelling and calls in noisy environments, although
| Bose, Apple, Sennheiser etc. are right up there. Each model has
| it's pros and cons.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| I haven't tried XM4's or XM5's but I do have both XM3's and
| AirPods Max. The XM3's have excellent cancellation and are
| more comfortable, but have more of a bass-cannon sort of
| sound profile compared to the AirPods Max, which have
| cancellation almost as good but have a generally more
| balanced sound.
| LegitShady wrote:
| I have sony XM3 earbuds and the app has EQ. I assume the
| XM3 headset app does as well since its the same app.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| I'll have to play with that some. I knew of it but
| assumed the EQ was done on the phone rather than on the
| headphones, which if true kind of renders it moot because
| I use my headphones on several devices that the app
| doesn't run on.
| pulvinar wrote:
| Anyone know if these are prone to creaking? I've had to give up
| on otherwise great headphones because they developed a loud
| plastic-friction creak which I had no luck repairing. My
| Sennheiser HD4.50 so far seems immune to that, though has some
| drawbacks.
| metadat wrote:
| What did you try to resolve the issue? I immediately thought
| lubrication might help.
|
| But if the culprit is plastic weakening over time, R.I.P.
| pulvinar wrote:
| I don't remember exactly now, but I seem to remember trying
| different lubricants and no lubricant, but nothing worked. It
| was in the plastic-plastic hinges inside the cups.
| Saris wrote:
| No frequency response testing? Mic response testing? Head
| pressure measurement?
|
| Kinda hard to take this seriously as a review when they don't
| even show anything about performance of the product.
| Veen wrote:
| It's a review in a general interest newspaper for the average
| headphone buyer. Almost no one who buys headphones knows what
| any of those things are.
| Saris wrote:
| I get that but they didn't even compare to other common
| headphones, I'm not sure how this helps anyone buy them.
| hyperhopper wrote:
| You are on a site called Hacker News
| smoldesu wrote:
| We're on the site that mocks the guy who suggested a
| homemade alternative to Dropbox. People here are more
| product-focused than tech focused, generally.
| paulryanrogers wrote:
| The AV niche is deep and has plenty of its own communities.
| HN has a technical audience spanning many niches, yet not
| all of us are familiar or interested in the finer points of
| AV hardware.
| alexvoda wrote:
| Yet expecting the HN audience to be curious and to
| criticize a review for laking scientific precision when
| it was posted here is very much in line.
|
| We should strive to be more curious and to demand more
| science.
| NoboruWataya wrote:
| A Guardian review that dove deep into the science behind
| the headphones would be a worse review, in that it would
| be less useful to its target audience (who mostly don't
| know or care about that).
|
| Maybe your objection isn't with such a review appearing
| in the Guardian but rather with it appearing on
| HackerNews. That's fair, however, to me, what is
| interesting about this post is that the Guardian (again,
| a widely-read, general interest newspaper) is reviewing
| the Fairbuds (a new product pushed by a fairly niche
| company focused on repairability and sustainability). And
| the review is largely positive. That is, the post is
| interesting as a reflection of social acceptance of this
| product and not as an exploration of the science behind
| the product.
| mhitza wrote:
| Exactly. I'm gonna have to wait for the rtings.com review, the
| only source I use for headphones when the model I'm reviewing
| is on their site.
|
| I'm not aware of any other site (suggestions welcome) that do
| in-depth product reviews
| jbm wrote:
| "No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame." 2023 edition. The
| people who care about those concerns are in a VERY specific
| bubble, similar to people who argue about differences between
| the BSDs.
|
| I have an 9 year old pair of Bose QC35s and my primary interest
| is if the noise cancelling dulls the noise on a plane; the
| exact amount is frankly unimportant. I also care to see if I
| can replace external parts if they get damaged (flipped my
| bicycle when a homeless person stepped in front of me; this did
| a number on my QC35s that I had in my bag. Thankfully all the
| damage was surface-level and I'm not vain.).
|
| I'll only buy fixable electronics going forward.
| artogahr wrote:
| They look cool and I would love to be able to buy one but the
| sustainability tax seems too high to be a successful product to
| me.
| Kuinox wrote:
| WH-1000XM5 => $400
|
| Bose QC45 => $279
|
| Fairbuds XL => 249EUR ($272 if I convert right now)
|
| It's cheaper than two of the most popular headphones, how is
| there a "too high sustainability tax" ?!?
| manmal wrote:
| I can really recommend the WH-1000XM5 btw. They are quite
| light and work surprisingly well even with iDevices. I tried
| to call my dad while I mowed the lawn (electric mower, but
| pretty loud one) and he understood me well. Audio pass
| through sounds like the real thing, I'd just like to be able
| to turn it louder.
| Kuinox wrote:
| That's a change then because the WH-1000XM3 microphone is
| really crap.
| manmal wrote:
| The XM5 have 8 microphones, that's one of the major
| improvements over previous versions.
| nickserv wrote:
| NC headphones typically have multiple microphones, the
| more there are, the better the NC can be. This is because
| the first part of NC is detecting ambient noise, the
| second being generating soundwaves to cancel out what's
| picked up by the mics.
|
| With more mics it's possible to get more accurate NC,
| especially for directional sounds.
|
| However more mics won't necessarily mean better call
| quality, they may not even be used at all for voice.
|
| For example my Jabra NC pair has really good microphone
| quality for calls, this is done by having a dedicated
| boom microphone, in this case nothing to do with the
| multiple NC microphones.
| mh- wrote:
| rtings.com describe the recording quality as pretty bad
| still on the XM5[0], but with markedly better mic noise
| suppression than the XM3[1].
|
| (These are the most objective measurements I'm aware of.)
|
| [0]: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sony/wh-10
| 00xm5-wi...
|
| [1]: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sony/wh-10
| 00xm3-wi...
| gruez wrote:
| But what's the sound quality like? If they're in the price
| range of $300-400 premium headphones, but perform like $100
| headphones, that's still a "tax".
| gsora wrote:
| The price on noise canceling headphones is usually an
| indication of how good they do NC.
|
| The vast amount of Bluetooth NC headphones sound like their
| 100$ wired counterpart.
| usrusr wrote:
| Wireless headphones are essentially streetwear. Making their
| product too cheap would be an unforgivable mistake in that
| market.
| nickserv wrote:
| I use mine for remote work, they are so expensive I actually
| avoid wearing them outside as much as possible.
| ealhad wrote:
| It's not a "sustainability tax", it's "acknowledging people are
| not slaves nor are resources infinite"
| willcipriano wrote:
| "Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain
| solvent"
|
| It may not make sense to repair for many consumers. In a few
| years we might have better codecs or similar and you'll want
| to upgrade your crusty headphones anyway.
| rstat1 wrote:
| >>In a few years we might have better codecs
|
| This sounds like something could be done with a firmware
| update.
| lozenge wrote:
| Nope, for latency and battery reasons this would be done
| by a specific chip, e.g. https://www.icstation.com/audio-
| module-bluetooth-compatible-... /
| https://www.tinyosshop.com/ts8670
|
| The same's true on the smartphone transmitter side.
| ealhad wrote:
| Or the speakers themselves, eventually
| xena wrote:
| I really wish these were available in Canada.
| vegabook wrote:
| You've been able to fix Beyerdynamic DT770s forever, which is one
| reason why they're so popular with studios.
| squarefoot wrote:
| This, and not being BT, which is a no-no in studios for various
| reasons.
| nickserv wrote:
| Pretty different use though, and these are more complex having
| NC electronics and a rechargeable battery for wireless use.
| v3x3366 wrote:
| I certainly appreciate this idea. My WH-1000XM4s developed an
| issue where the NC has a feedback loop that sends a deafening
| shriek as soon as you place them on your ears and it lasts until
| you turn off the NC. I have to go through this (quite
| embarrassing in public) ordeal every time I turn them on. I'd
| just upgrade if they weren't so absurdly expensive in the first
| place.
| headsupernova wrote:
| My 3s do this as well but it's quite intermittent
| zaptheimpaler wrote:
| Those are basically just as repairable as the Fairbuds, and
| cleaning the insides has helped some people get rid of the
| feedback problem:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnFetuJajfI
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> WH-1000XM4s developed an issue where the NC has a feedback
| loop that sends a deafening shriek_
|
| Interesting. I have the original first gen WH-1000XM1s from
| 2006 and keep wanting to upgrade them to get the more advance
| NC and USB-C but they haven't broken down yet and they have no
| issues whatsoever, even the battery lasts long enough, while
| the modern ones seem plagued with various issues so I'm
| hesitant to upgrade.
| noman-land wrote:
| This has been happening to me lately. It's absolutely insane
| behavior that had the potential to permanently damage my
| hearing.
| PartiallyTyped wrote:
| I have the same issue with my earpods pro, it occurred after a
| couple of falls while wearing them, seems to be damage to a
| microphone or something.
| sircastor wrote:
| Do you think this is a hardware or a software problem? I have
| these headphones myself, and I really like them. This sounds
| awful. I had to do a factory reset on them recently because
| they stopped connecting to one of my devices.
| roland35 wrote:
| I have a similar issue with my airpod pros. I believe it is a
| microphone issue, especially since they work in non-noise
| cancelling mode just fine.
| millzlane wrote:
| Same, I have airpod pro 2nd gens and if I lay down on a
| pillow a certain way I get a very loud squeal.
| danielfoster wrote:
| I like the concept of repairability, but these headphones are
| honestly quite boring. "Fair" cannot be the only selling point.
| Offer something interesting and compelling.
| musTY8 wrote:
| It's good as a starting point though. It inspires similar ideas
| to hit the market and gives consumers a taste of
| sustainability.
| danielfoster wrote:
| Absolutely! I guess I am not the target market. I've had the
| same Bose headphones for four years and other than an easy
| earpad replacement, nothing has broken. I can't imagine
| needing to replace the battery.
|
| This seems somewhat like a solution looking for a problem.
|
| Probably the price surcharge for these headphones would be
| better spent on right-to-repair lobbying or even spent at
| ifixit.
| dabluecaboose wrote:
| There's nothing more sustainable than keeping the product
| you already own!
| RobotToaster wrote:
| I like the idea, but they look a little big to be called "buds".
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Fairphones would have been too confusing :p
| mh- wrote:
| Faircans, perhaps. I also expected them to be in-ear when I
| clicked.
| codeulike wrote:
| Headfairns
| philipov wrote:
| We have a winner!
| NoboruWataya wrote:
| As did I, particularly because Fairphone do actually offer
| in-ear earbuds: https://shop.fairphone.com/en/true-
| wireless-stereo-earbuds
| oreilles wrote:
| Fearphones
| smoldesu wrote:
| Fairpods Max?
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-05-14 23:01 UTC)