[HN Gopher] TikTok Feeds Teens a Diet of Darkness
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TikTok Feeds Teens a Diet of Darkness
Author : Jimmc414
Score : 87 points
Date : 2023-05-13 20:30 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.wsj.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.wsj.com)
| [deleted]
| ingenika wrote:
| I think algorithm auditing should be a solution
| americanZero wrote:
| [dead]
| rdxm wrote:
| [dead]
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| Anyone who even briefly used Instagram, Snapchat, etc., in the
| last decade would know they were far from wholesome, especially
| when the 'influencer' stuff started gaining traction. So I would
| be surprised if TikTok failed to clear that low bar.
|
| In fact, it's so unlikely, considering the vastly greater
| scrutiny they're under, that I'm beginning to suspect it's more
| to do with geopolitics then any actual aspect of the social media
| platform.
|
| And it doesn't help that nearly every comment debates geopolitics
| whenever one of these articles is posted. Wanting Beijing to buy
| more soybeans, be less obstinate about the WTO, vote against
| Russia in the security council, etc..., is fine, but I'm getting
| tired of everything being dragged into this browbeating contest.
| CPLX wrote:
| Geopolitics has everything to do with it. Tik Tok would be
| banned immediately under any sane policy we have never allowed
| mass media outlets to be controlled by state agents of a
| hostile foreign power for obvious reasons.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| alluro2 wrote:
| I agree in principle - but why is TikTok different - why then
| not, for example, Instagram as well? Is the content on IG any
| better? Does Meta for some reason have any one individual's
| interests at heart more than TikTok?
| CPLX wrote:
| Those should be broken up for different long-standing and
| obvious reasons, namely that they're clearly prohibited by
| existing antitrust statute. That however is a different
| issue to foreign state controlled media.
| numpad0 wrote:
| The only problem with social media algorithms to anyone is
| that that anyone is in its line of sight through the
| operating end of it. It's generally inadvisable,
| uncomfortable and principally incorrect to stand downrange
| of such devices, that's all.
| kieselguhr_kid wrote:
| Someone help me understand why I should care more about the
| Chinese government having my data than my own. My own
| government actually has power over me.
| CPLX wrote:
| Because the Chinese state is autocratic and malevolent and
| has as a stated goal destroying American power and
| replacing it with their own anti-democratic power
| structures.
| kieselguhr_kid wrote:
| Setting aside the far more malevolent impact of American
| power, China has no way to use my data to oppress me. The
| US does, and routinely uses social media data against its
| own citizens and people abroad.
| CPLX wrote:
| We're talking about an instant, direct, and unobservable
| line into the psyches of tens of millions of American
| teenagers.
|
| The only reason this is even an argument is deep
| influence peddling and a staggering complacency towards
| the real long term motives of the CCP. Which are related.
| hax0ron3 wrote:
| This kind of fear about large-scale communist subversion
| was common back in the 1950s too, yet that generation of
| American kids turned out mostly fine.
| flangola7 wrote:
| If China destabilizes US democracy (more than Russia
| already has) that can definitely hurt you.
|
| But it's not a competition. Both are bad, both should be
| resisted. I want TikTok banned AND I want comprehensive
| laws forbidding Facebook and domestic government from
| abusing my information.
| ok123456 wrote:
| The lanyard class is really hitting the yellow peril button
| really hard.
|
| How about "Commercial Media Feeds Everyone a Diet of Darkness"?
| booleandilemma wrote:
| Right, and mainstream media is all sunshine, lollipops, and
| rainbows.
| richk449 wrote:
| We need a constitutional amendment banning infinite scroll.
| hax0ron3 wrote:
| There was plenty of darkness on the Internet back in the 90s when
| I was a kid using it, and I grew up just fine despite having
| access to hardcore pornography, gore, and all kinds of disturbed
| people's writings. I do not think that targeted algorithms make
| any significant difference in this regard.
|
| The "won't somebody please think of the children!!!" moral panic
| around social media annoys me. Hysterias about shadowy outside
| agencies infiltrating and subverting society usually annoy me in
| general, whether they are about Jews polluting the minds of good
| Germans, communists taking over Hollywood, the CIA being behind
| every revolution, shadowy Russians interfering in America's
| elections, or nefarious Chinese hurting American children by
| giving them access to information.
|
| Such theories often have some grain of truth to them. Obviously,
| there are lots of different groups out there running actual
| influence and subversion campaigns. But I think that such
| campaigns are typically nowhere near as centralized or as
| effective as the subversion theorists claim. The subversion
| theorists frame things in a way that discounts the agency of the
| supposed targets of the subversion, and I think this reveals what
| many of them actually think about those targets. It is an
| authoritarian mindset. "I, who am obviously a good guy, should
| protect these pawns from having their minds by subverted by this
| other power over there. Only I, not those other guys, should have
| the power to control the minds of the worthless plebs."
| rvz wrote:
| This really is no different to Instagram, but is even worse. The
| solution is not to replace Instagram or TikTok with another
| social network as clearly that doesn't work, but the real
| solution it is to delete your accounts and get off of these apps.
|
| One does not stop and quit their alcohol addiction by drinking a
| different brand of alcohol. So the only solution is to delete
| your account and these apps.
|
| Very simple, and it has always been possible [0]. So what is your
| excuse?
|
| [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-40654983
| laratied wrote:
| Deleting social media was trivial for me as an old man. I don't
| really care that much what people are doing and if I missed out
| on party invites I doubt I would have went anyway. I haven't
| been on Facebook in 10 years and have never been on Tiktok or
| Instagram.
|
| It is a completely different story though if I think of myself
| at 16. Teenage years were tough enough without anyone having
| social media. To be one of the outcast without social media is
| inconceivable. This is a total failure by adults to have put
| kids in this position.
|
| The craziest thing to me is that we don't just put the same
| limits on children on Tiktok that they do in China. It is as if
| children were getting free, unlimited cookies sent to them in
| the mail and we do nothing because "cookies taste good". "What
| do you want me to do? Kids love cookies!"
| andrewjl wrote:
| This seemingly reasonable argument also happens to benefit the
| pocketbooks of those who have ownership of these social media
| properties.
|
| Not to mention that putting the responsibility on individuals
| to solve systemic problems disproportionately impacts
| marginalized and underrepresented groups.
| macintux wrote:
| Deleting my account did nothing to alleviate the destructive
| impact Facebook has on teenagers. Had I a TikTok account,
| deleting it would similarly accomplish nothing for anyone but
| myself.
| nobody9999 wrote:
| >Deleting my account did nothing to alleviate the destructive
| impact Facebook has on teenagers. Had I a TikTok account,
| deleting it would similarly accomplish nothing for anyone but
| myself.
|
| A fair point.
|
| But while you won't be "saving the world," you will be
| getting _you_ away from such toxic cesspools.
|
| Unless you _like_ toxic cesspools. In which case, please do
| carry on. Good luck.
| captainkrtek wrote:
| I quit all social media a couple years ago by simply deleting
| everything. It's a bit different being in your late 20s and not
| on instagram, tiktok. I tried limiting measures but hated the
| compulsive aspects of needing to check in on social apps.
| Deleting everything has been great and no feeling of wanting to
| go back.
|
| Conversely, my partner has tried to use different apps,
| mechanisms, and so on to limit screentime, all with limited
| success. Social media usage is seriously addictive and
| compulsive. The number of times people just open their phone
| and compulsively check instagram is wild..
|
| I think the limiting piece for people is the social aspects,
| and feeling of missing out. Or that they feel its the main way
| to connect with friends.
| tstrimple wrote:
| > I quit all social media a couple years ago by simply
| deleting everything.
|
| They proudly declare on a social media website.
| captainkrtek wrote:
| Meaning conventional sites (FB, Instagram, Snapchat, etc).
| Not the internet at large
| q7xvh97o2pDhNrh wrote:
| TBH, Reddit has been pretty addictive for me. Currently
| working on breaking that addiction.
| captainkrtek wrote:
| Totally get it. I still visit sites like reddit (or HN)
| where you can browse and scroll interesting things.
|
| Think the bigger challenge for anyone who quits these sites
| is what to fill the time we spend scrolling with? We've all
| spent many years conditioned to simply open these apps to
| fill any time or moment of boredom, with low effort. Ive
| had to take up a number of interests, mostly physical, to
| keep busy and happy.
| jgilias wrote:
| There's this book called "Deep Work" that some people (me
| included) like. From the things I've taken from it one is
| "embrace boredom". Basically, being bored these days is a
| skill that takes development. And it really does wonders
| to having a clear mind, coming up with original ideas,
| etc. The biggest challenge when doing this is that I'm so
| accustomed to using the internet as part of my thought
| process that it's really difficult to not use it to
| verify some idea.
|
| But yeah, try learning to be bored.
| captainkrtek wrote:
| I agree with that philosophy, not trying to cram every
| free moment with content. For me embracing an athletic
| lifestyle has been a great way. While its not embracing
| boredom, its at least fun, fulfilling, and positive. Also
| language learning has been a great interest to pursue
| Xeoncross wrote:
| Keep these apps off your phone if you can.
|
| Use them on a computer when you decide you need to do something
| on them, not when they (ping) and beckon you to come consume
| content.
| paulcole wrote:
| I use my phone/iPad with no notifications on. I still ended
| up watching 2-3 hours of TikTok a day because the algorithm
| was so "good." I ended up deciding it was taking too much
| time away from the things I really liked and deleted it off
| my devices. I'll admit I still manually go to people's
| profiles I like to see what they're posting, but it's at most
| once a day for 1 minute rather than hours of mindless
| scrolling.
| Calvin02 wrote:
| I'm old enough to remember that the same media that's
| complaining about Social Media's affects on Teens is the same
| media that was after video games, Hollywood, music videos.
|
| Moral panic has always sold newspapers.
|
| I'm not saying you're wrong but I think this perspective has
| helped me see things a bit differently.
| api wrote:
| I thought those things were BS. Social media is different.
| It's addictive to a degree that goes far beyond TV or video
| games and the content is shockingly mindless and toxic.
|
| The average content on social media (at least if you let
| yourself be led by algorithms) is easily as bad as the worst
| content on cable TV. Some of it is worse than almost anything
| on TV in a very specific way: it's utterly mindless. I'm
| continuously shocked by the mindlessness of what trends on
| YouTube for instance. It lacks even basic plot or structure,
| just endless repetitive spectacle or people faking excited
| reactions while doing the most banal things. It barely
| qualifies as filler yet people eat it up.
|
| Then of course you have the political and cultural trash.
| Right, left, up, down, but no matter what it is it must be
| dumb and extreme and inflammatory. The most successful stuff
| in this category either serves to inflame hatred toward
| someone else or feed narcissism in the target audience.
|
| Absolute trash, it seems, is what maximizes engagement. I
| don't like what it says about humanity.
| 52-6F-62 wrote:
| I think it says what the mystics were always saying: Most
| people are like they're asleep.
|
| Great art works to break people out of that sleep--that
| includes pop music and TV and whatever else.
|
| The kind of garbage that gets elevated by these algorithms
| does the opposite--it buries peoples minds and numbs their
| senses. There's a lot of money to be made off of people who
| are continuously preoccupied rather than present and
| feeling.
| 908087 wrote:
| Video games, movies, and music weren't able to hit users with
| micro-targeted ads/propaganda/"content" meant to modify
| individual behavior in ways often harmful to them or society
| as a whole.
|
| Unfortunately even that has changed now that everyone uses
| streaming services and plays always-online games.
| Amezarak wrote:
| Maybe they were right, and social media is even worse.
|
| TV, for instance, has pretty clearly been a net negative due
| to its impact on the social fabric and people's, especially
| children's, minds. The fact social media is even worse
| doesn't change that.
| marcellus23 wrote:
| > TV, for instance, has pretty clearly been a net negative
| due to its impact on the social fabric and people's,
| especially children's, minds
|
| I don't think this is clear. What kind of effects do you
| think TV has had on the social fabric?
| gnz11 wrote:
| Heck, you can take that even further and say the entire
| hyper-consumption economy has been a net negative.
| retrac wrote:
| Society largely tuned out of the "does media impact its
| viewers psychologically or behaviourally?" debate in the 80s
| after the moral panic. And it was a moral panic.
|
| But I've always been uncomfortable with the opposite extreme
| position, the implicit reaction to the moral panic. The
| argument where TV, movies, games, social media, it's not
| possible for them to have any real effect on their viewers
| psychologically, regardless of content, even when they're
| exposed to dozens of hours a week in some extreme cases.
|
| That strains my credulity. There's been a lot of research
| done which suggests it is true; it has an impact. For
| example, exposure to violent media doesn't appear to cause
| violence by inducing insensitivity to horror and the disgust,
| as once hypothesized. But it does seem to cause anxiety about
| being the victim of violence. The more violent TV news and
| violent movies you watch, the more you overestimate your
| chances of being horribly murdered one day. But you know,
| maybe it does just make us violent. The American mass shooter
| phenomenon is, arguably, a media-propagated thing. Copycats
| upon copycats, inspired solely through media exposure.
|
| Similarly, sexualized material does not turn people sex-
| crazed, it makes them sex-negative and apprehensive about
| their own body image. As a general rule, the more porn you
| watch, the fewer sex partners you have. There has been a
| massive change in the sexual behaviour of young adults over
| the last couple decades -- they have literally half as much
| sex as we did in my generation. Could it possibly have
| something to do with the media boys watch?
| WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
| The West is pioneering the trash culture of social media, I find
| TikTok to be quite cheerful in comparison, I don't know what the
| purpose of this article is other than to spread anti-TikTok
| propaganda, which seems to be popular among today's elite
|
| There is a better strategy to counter foreign threats than
| blaming others for doing what you have been doing for decades, it
| makes you look like a fool
| rayiner wrote:
| I like Tik Tok. Even the Chinese propaganda is nice and
| wholesome.
| bluepizza wrote:
| I have looked into Tiktok a few times, looked at the feed, and
| search for a few tags, nothing particularly complex, topics
| like history, or k-pop.
|
| The amount of misinformation and disturbing videos I've seen
| was astonishing.
|
| "Trash culture" is a natural human phenomenon of which no
| culture has a monopoly on.
| andybak wrote:
| Dunno. I spent a few days diving into TikTok out of a sense of
| curiosity and a desire to "stay in touch".
|
| I found it got weird quite quickly without any conscious input
| on my part. Animal cruelty, conspiracy stuff and things that
| YouTube has never suggested.
| AtreidesTyrant wrote:
| lmao, this is straight untrue. how many family members have
| been lost because of YouTubes insane conspiracy stuff.
| numpad0 wrote:
| Social media suggestions varies person to person. TikTok
| gave me nothing memorable last I tried. YouTube seems to be
| a better place when I'm logged out in a fresh browser.
| Twitter and Reddit gives me very little fake/incorrect
| posts. None of above seems to be the case for anyone else.
| deepzn wrote:
| Agreed. TikTok in the wild without developing a curated feed
| of normal Human interests, can keep recommending sickening
| videos. I've seen the animal cruelty videos you saw too.
|
| Though, if you get out of the YT algorithm, for eg. in
| incognito mode, I've seen very poor recommendations as well.
| Like viral bait videos. But not like Tiktok.
| darth_avocado wrote:
| Not sure about animal cruelty, but you click on one Tim
| Dillon comedy bit on YouTube and for some reason the feed
| just immediately devolves into an endless stream of
| conspiracy stuff. Clicking not interested does little to
| change it, and even watched videos keep showing up again and
| again.
| worrycue wrote:
| Wiping your Watch History should fix it.
|
| I always remove objectionable videos I accidentally watch
| from my Watch History to prevent the algorithm from using
| it as a basis for recommending me stuff.
| spondylosaurus wrote:
| Hearing stories about YouTube recommending conspiracy
| videos always fascinates me because my own recommendations
| rarely veer in that direction, if ever. But I keep to a
| pretty strict diet of gaming/speedrun videos and bass
| (guitar, not fish) content, so what I see on my homepage
| almost entirely adheres to that.
|
| But then I watch one innocuous video outside of my core
| interests--say, washing machine repair how-to, or a clip of
| an old sitcom, and then my feed gets infected with Jordan
| Peterson or other weird shit and I'm like ah, _this_ is
| what everyone 's talking about! And I have to go prune my
| watch history until they vanish. It's bizarre.
| heavyset_go wrote:
| Facebook Reels has been showing me videos of animals being
| killed, and I've been keeping a list because it's absurd.
| hackernewds wrote:
| Why are you keeping this list?
| erulabs wrote:
| My wife uses TikTok sometimes. Her feed is mostly toddler related
| (we have a two year old), and is typically really light and
| happy. If she scrolls for more than about 10 minutes tho she'll
| get a video about a kid dying or being abused, and I find her
| crying and upset.
|
| I don't know if it's intentional or not - it's possibly not - but
| I know it makes her more sad than happy.
| than3 wrote:
| More than likely its intentional.
|
| One of the main reasons TikTok has been grilled by congress is
| because of China's stance and willingness to violate any law
| for their own benefit.
|
| One of those benefits not very commonly understood in America
| by the general populace is Political Warfare, which China calls
| the destruction of national will in their own documentation.
|
| The USMC University has an ebook that is freely available that
| describes what is done, why its important, and its effects. It
| is a worthwhile read, if you do further research on this know
| that Bezmenov is not credible; there are much more credible
| sources, that's not to say what he says is necessarily
| incorrect, the best deceit weaves truth into lies.
|
| The general gist is they seek to put people into a
| psychological state of demoralization, in that state you
| typically polarize into two separate groups.
|
| Apathetic and complacent where you don't react to anything, and
| the other where you lash out at anything that you perceive or
| triggers you (through psychological anchoring [using NLP
| vocabulary], and various form of isolation). The conflict
| between these three groups (apathetic, violent, rational)
| allows a smaller number of people to seize power in a
| destabilization event which is a regime change playbook that
| most governments have used at one point or another.
| Historically, the last stage of that playbook involves getting
| back to a new normal by consolidating, and eliminating
| detractors (those people that lashed out).
|
| Its subtle, and deceitful, but certain things you just can't
| give others the benefit of the doubt. Existential threats to
| your individual identity (which is what's often targeted during
| propaganda, and political warfare efforts), are one of those
| things. If its present, the source isn't credible and shouldn't
| be used regardless of what they say.
|
| P.S. There's also a lawsuit from a TikTok insider that just
| made headlines recently disclosing how code was in the app to
| allow CCP backdoor access to US data and amplify or de-amplify
| narratives according to Communist core values. If there was any
| question about TikTok's credibility and their narrative that
| they don't do this; that pretty much seals the deal given
| everything else assuming of course what was said is factually
| correct.
|
| They clearly would not have credibility, which would eliminate
| them as a potential choice in any risk management analysis you
| might need to do.
|
| [Link]: https://www.businessinsider.com/new-lawsuit-alleges-
| tiktok-o...
| 36933 wrote:
| Can you link that ebook, please?
| aaomidi wrote:
| Here's the solution here:
|
| 1. Proper data protection laws that apply universally to
| every company. No more "oh sorry we fucked up here's free
| credit monitoring". I'm talking fines of 5% base + 1% daily
| increase for every day they delay announcing their fuck up of
| global revenue. If they've tried to hide it and it comes out
| later, that company gets nationalized.
|
| 2. Actual lawsuits against the various social media companies
| that have actively aided in manipulating people. E.g
| Cambridge Analytica
|
| 3. Removal of any "limited liability" protections against
| execs that actively stood by and waited for this to happen.
| Execs being defined by the top 10-20% of the company by both
| assets and income (stock and cash)
|
| If you're talking about "communist core values" you're,
| respectfully, fallen into a weird propaganda trap. Nothing
| about China is "communist". North Korea calls themselves
| democratic, but no one actually calls them that.
|
| To me, your comment sounds like a bag of Sinophobia mixed in
| with a bunch of "ok" takes assuming you want this applied to
| everyone. Not just the new big baddie.
| Mizoguchi wrote:
| Telling the truth about the CPP and their absolute control
| of Chinese "private" corporations to spy and infiltrate
| their adversaries is not Sinophobia.
|
| The general Chinese population are not to blame here as
| they are just another victim of the CPP.
|
| Growing up my self in a totalitarian "communist" regime
| (none of them are communist for that matter, they
| incorporate socialist and communist ideas in their
| propaganda) I know there's nothing you can do as an
| individual to change the system and getting organized with
| other people is technically impossible, as the climate of
| fear and distrust is such that you don't dare to talk about
| anything closely related to politics among neighbors,
| friends and even relatives.
|
| We know what happens to Chinese exec, artists and athletes
| when they don't play by the CPP rules.
|
| Just imagine if in the US it was normal for people like
| Jeff Bezos, LeBron James or Jennifer Lawrence "dissappear"
| every time they confront the US government and the
| psychological impact that would have on the regular
| population.
| than3 wrote:
| While I agree with some of what you say, with respect, that
| latter part I think you've fallen into a flawed association
| trap through the use of corrupted language.
|
| Anyone that's educated in this area knows just because
| someone says something is true, it doesn't make it so, and
| discussing that wasn't even part of the comment so you are
| getting into the weeds.
|
| For your own edifice, can you (for yourself) tell what are
| the differences between socialism, communism, fascism and
| fabianism; and which ones are mutually exclusive? A google
| search surface view won't be much help with answering that;
| best resource is historical texts and essays.
|
| To me, you seem to have mixed objectives or have been
| seriously misled. You claim its new, but this in fact is a
| very old 'baddie' wrapped up in new clothing.
| windexh8er wrote:
| > The USMC University has an ebook that is freely available
| that describes what is done, why its important, and its
| effects.
|
| Can you share more specifics about this eBook? Thanks!
| parker_mountain wrote:
| It's not intentional in the sense that they're trying to do
| that to her, but their algorithm likely determined that showing
| a video in that cohort leads to increased use of their app.
| neilv wrote:
| > _It 's not intentional in the sense that they're trying to
| do that to her,_
|
| Do you know this for certain?
| parker_mountain wrote:
| I'm pretty sure "tiktok is specifically trying to make
| people sad" and "tiktok does not really care if they hurt
| people as long as they increase engagement" are two
| separate concepts.
| neilv wrote:
| Yes, and reportedly neither is a completely resolved
| question.
| ThrowawayTestr wrote:
| Is the former out of the question?
| erehweb wrote:
| What would TikTok's motivation be to make her sad?
| fear_and_coffee wrote:
| [dead]
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| The USA's FBI currently claims:
|
| _The counterintelligence and economic espionage efforts
| emanating from the government of China and the Chinese
| Communist Party are a grave threat to the economic well-
| being and democratic values of the United States._
|
| _Confronting this threat is the FBI's top
| counterintelligence priority._
|
| _To be clear, the adversary is not the Chinese people or
| people of Chinese descent or heritage. The threat comes
| from the programs and policies pursued by an
| authoritarian government._
|
| _The Chinese government is employing tactics that seek
| to influence lawmakers and public opinion to achieve
| policies that are more favorable to China._
|
| _At the same time, the Chinese government is seeking to
| become the world's greatest superpower through predatory
| lending and business practices, systematic theft of
| intellectual property, and brazen cyber intrusions._
|
| _China's efforts target businesses, academic
| institutions, researchers, lawmakers, and the general
| public and will require a whole-of-society response. The
| government and the private sector must commit to working
| together to better understand and counter the threat._
|
| https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/counterintelligence/the-
| chin...
|
| ByteDance's motives should, by now, be clear.
| andrewjl wrote:
| > algorithm likely determined that showing a video in that
| cohort leads to increased use of their app
|
| Development, selection, tuning, and ultimately deployment of
| that algorithm were all intentional actions.
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| No no no. You're confused.
|
| There is no _algorithm acting independently_. The
| responsibile agent(s) is(are) a person(people).
| parker_mountain wrote:
| No no no. You're confused.
|
| I didn't absolve the creator of guilt, I just said that
| it's unlikely they're intentionally trying to make her sad.
| They're just trying to increase engagement - at any cost.
| xapata wrote:
| Why? What motivates ByteDance?
| placatedmayhem wrote:
| Exactly. These outcomes are the results of the algorithms
| and their tuning, whether intentional or not. Humans are
| responsible for it and can tune it differently, to a
| different result. However, these new tunings may reduce
| engagement or other profit drivers, which a for-profit
| company will obviously not want to do.
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| And you... permit this to continue? Intentionally?
| suddenclarity wrote:
| Permit? Your wife? It's not a kid you can revoke internet
| access from.
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| No, that would be _unskilful_.
|
| I _protect_ my SO, with whom I cohabitate, by sharing my
| knowledge and experience with. By leading.
|
| If my SO starts exhibiting behaviour indicative of new
| psychological / physical pathology, we deal with it,
| together.
|
| We, _I_ , don't do _nothing_. That 's what's commonly
| referred to as _enabling_.
| jjj123 wrote:
| Where did the OP say they've done nothing? Isn't it
| entirely possible they've said how they feel about it,
| and their partner decided not to listen to them for
| whatever reason?
|
| I had a partner who smoked and continually encouraged
| them to quit. It took years. Pathological behaviors are
| hard to break.
| gg-plz wrote:
| [dead]
| carlosjobim wrote:
| Husband and wife have a duty to take care of each other. If
| TikTok is damaging her, he should not permit it. If he is
| abusing drugs that is destroying him, she should not permit
| it.
| xapata wrote:
| What do you mean by permit in this usage?
| dymk wrote:
| I'm interpreting it as in "Stand for it"
| xapata wrote:
| That's also vague. Do you mean that if the person does
| what you don't permit, you would leave the relationship?
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| _videos that promote restrictive diets and discuss self-harm and
| suicide._
|
| This sounds to me like a misguided attempt to "warn" and
| "educate" in the worst way possible.
| telotortium wrote:
| How long did they work for the alliteration in that headline?
| Jimmc414 wrote:
| https://archive.is/wQvnR
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