[HN Gopher] The Life and Science of Richard Feynman (1992)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Life and Science of Richard Feynman (1992)
        
       Author : okfine
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2023-05-12 07:43 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nybooks.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nybooks.com)
        
       | babuloseo wrote:
       | This is amazing, I don't like the part about womanizing behaviour
       | etc, I think it should be omitted from the article, other than
       | that 10/10 autobiography.
        
         | ftxbro wrote:
         | I feel like his womanizing behavior was bad and that it was
         | also somehow wrapped up in his attention seeking and other self
         | promoting drives that made him so well known. I don't think it
         | should be hidden.
        
           | nearmuse wrote:
           | I am really tired of dirt being brought up each time a
           | discussion of a renowned figure is happening. It obviously
           | detracts from the inspiration or immersion people are trying
           | to derive from bringing up those renowned figures. They are
           | intentionally focusing on the positive aspects, and those who
           | are bringing the garbage up are intentionally detracting from
           | it.
        
             | chowells wrote:
             | You think there's a problem reminding readers that
             | venerated people aren't good role models? Why? Why not
             | strive to be _better_ than them, intentionally moving past
             | their flaws?
        
           | guenthert wrote:
           | Mr Feynman is well known (among other) for his work in the
           | field of quantum electrodynamic theory (for which he won the
           | Nobel price), his diagrams, his lectures and his work in the
           | commission investigating the challenger catastrophe.
           | 
           | Are those the self-promoting drives you refer to?
        
             | mrgoldenbrown wrote:
             | When it comes to how we was self promoting, I think it's
             | fair to look at his autobiography (edit: autobiographical
             | anecdotes is probably a better description of the book)
             | (Surely You're Joking Mr Feynman). In which he describes
             | his own redpillish behavior towards women, and brags about
             | how he would troll waitresses by purposely setting up time
             | bomb messes for them to cleanup.
        
             | moritzwarhier wrote:
             | I assume that the parent commenter was referring to being a
             | good teacher and charismatic lecturer.
        
         | UniverseHacker wrote:
         | How is "womanizing" a concept that makes sense, or has any
         | meaning in modern times?
         | 
         | If I understand correctly, it describes a man that only has
         | casual relationships with women. The implication being that all
         | woman only want long term committed relationships, and any man
         | doing this must be somehow exploiting or tricking the woman.
         | 
         | Nowadays, it is widely accepted that preferring casual
         | relationships is within the range of normal preferences for
         | both men and women- some people prefer it, others don't. If
         | both women and men can choose and prefer consenting casual
         | relationships, the concept that a man can be a "womanizer"
         | seems to be paternalistic and infantizing to women. It also
         | implies some sort of old fashioned 'duty' on the part of a man
         | to essentially marry anyone he dates, even if they realize they
         | are incompatible, and neither has a desire to stay together.
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | Eh, the biography sometimes veers heavily into redpill
           | territory. He has a frank discussion of negging in order to
           | seduce women. I personally think #canceled is far too eager
           | to throw the baby out with the bathwater and if you just
           | cruise through that section with the mentality that he's a
           | product of his time then it's still a fascinating work.
           | 
           | I also personally think that there are multiple parts of the
           | book that have been "spiced up" because that's the kind of
           | personality he has.
        
           | tshaddox wrote:
           | There's no need to do mental gymnastics around the definition
           | of the word "womanizing" as if all criticisms of Feynman's
           | behavior can be reduced to that single word and then
           | dismissed by opining over the definition of that single word.
           | In reality, there are a fair number of much more specific
           | claims about his behavior that are not reducible to that
           | single word and can be described without even using that word
           | if one finds it impossible to move past that word.
        
             | southernplaces7 wrote:
             | Go ahead and name these "problematic" claims if you like.
             | It's long since tiresome to see so many historical figures
             | with co much to recommend them being judged through an
             | obsession with their failures to live and think like 21st
             | century human beings of a specific and still very debatable
             | set of morals.
        
               | tshaddox wrote:
               | I'm confident you can find the claims in mere minutes if
               | you genuinely haven't seen them and are interested.
        
               | southernplaces7 wrote:
               | Likewise. Vague things that it's absurd to use again and
               | again in any mention of all the enormous contributions
               | that Feynman made to science and an interest in science
               | among younger people. The polarization towards this one
               | specific thing, which in this case also happens to be
               | vague, speaks of a tacitly puritanical need to paint
               | black anyone who somehow decades ago didn't fit just
               | right with a specific notion of modern moral correctness.
               | Laughable idiocy.
        
               | olddustytrail wrote:
               | I couldn't. All the accusations are vague to the point of
               | uselessness. What is the convincing claim in your eyes?
        
               | tshaddox wrote:
               | I have no inside information and I haven't done any
               | particularly focused research into any of the claims. I'm
               | only referring to extremely widely known and very easy to
               | find claims that are much more specific than the single
               | word "womanizing." I'm not trying to convince anyone of
               | their veracity or litigate details of claims on a point
               | by point basis. I just think it's disingenuous to reduce
               | all such claims to a single or imply that they're vague
               | or difficult to find.
        
               | olddustytrail wrote:
               | It's not widely known to me and I found concrete claims
               | difficult to find.
               | 
               | Why are you so shy about simply naming specifics on a
               | subject you claim is widely known and easy to find
               | information on?
        
               | logdap wrote:
               | [dead]
        
       | chrisbrandow wrote:
       | This book had such a big impact on me. Really helped fuel my love
       | of science and gave me a sense of the scientific community as a
       | special group of people.
        
       | JackFr wrote:
       | Possibly my favorite biography.
        
         | interfixus wrote:
         | Yes, it's all the way up there. As these coincidenses will
         | sometimes have it, I just dug out my old paperback copy from
         | the basement a few days ago, and looking mightily forward to a
         | reread.
        
       | michael_nielsen wrote:
       | I've heard that Murray Gell-Mann said of this book that "Jim
       | Gleick has written a biography about Feynman's genius in order to
       | illustrate his own". A bit backhanded, perhaps, but it captures
       | the essence well: it's an extraordinary book about an
       | extraordinary person. The best biography I've ever read, along
       | with Skidelsky's one-volume Keynes.
        
       | sillysaurusx wrote:
       | > He joined a fraternity, one of the two that took in Jews.
       | 
       | This was a surprising reminder that things were very different in
       | 1935.
       | 
       | I wonder, is there any group like this today? "One of the two
       | that took in X" for any X seems like an interesting formula for
       | locating outliers, whether good or bad.
       | 
       | A lot of nasty examples come to mind, but it's hard to know how
       | Jews were regarded at the time. I wonder what the official
       | justification was for denying access to Feynman.
       | 
       | (I'm half Jewish on my father's side, and I only discovered this
       | by accident a few years ago. So I've been trying to research my
       | heritage wherever I can.)
        
         | eig wrote:
         | I graduated from MIT undergrad a few years ago. There were
         | certainly no restrictions on cultural background in the
         | fraternities, though certain fraternities (and some dorm
         | floors) did have reputations for having disproportionate of
         | people coming from a particular ethnicity (e.g. asian) or
         | heading towards a particular career path (e.g. finance, or
         | medicine). FWIW I almost joined a frat that I would've been a
         | minority in, but I never felt excluded while rushing that or
         | any of the other frats.
        
         | jhbadger wrote:
         | And he only went to MIT as an undergraduate because his first
         | choice Columbia had a "Jew quota" and they had already admitted
         | all the Jews they wanted to for that year. Besides the
         | antisemitism, it's also a reminder that in the 1930s MIT was
         | seen as a good, but not particularly elite school and would be
         | somebody's backup school.
        
           | sillysaurusx wrote:
           | Now that's fascinating. Thank you. Both that Columbia was as
           | regarded as MIT and that MIT hadn't achieved its current
           | fame.
           | 
           | It's odd to realize that I've always thought of MIT as MIT,
           | yet (obviously, now) it wasn't always that way. I wonder what
           | the tipping point was.
        
             | zamfi wrote:
             | MIT was only a few decades old at the time -- having been
             | founded about 75 years prior. Columbia was over twice as
             | old at the time (185 years) and was well-established as a
             | global center of physics research.
        
             | hawk_ wrote:
             | Makes me wonder how big a role did the "Jew Quota" or
             | similar discriminatory practices played in holding back the
             | likes of Columbia. Also whether we will see a similar
             | effect over next 50 years with affirmative vs non-
             | affirmative schools.
        
             | jhbadger wrote:
             | Probably WWII, with the American radar research program
             | (not as famous as the Manhattan Project but probably
             | equally or more important) centered there.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Gunsights too. That was how Doc Draper who later
               | pioneered inertial navigation and whose lab designed the
               | Apollo Guidance Computer first made his name. (Draper
               | Labs is no longer formally affiliated with MIT as it was
               | divested during the Vietnam War.)
               | 
               | But WWII was probably a major catalyst in the US to the
               | rise in prominence of all the great science and
               | engineering research universities. (There are actually a
               | lot of inventors from that era like Draper who although
               | they were also theoreticians to some degree one suspects
               | might not fit in with a modern research university
               | faculty.)
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | There were a ton of membership organizations that, probably
         | even quite a bit later, required one or more members to vouch
         | for you and generally excluded people who didn't fit the
         | generally WASPy mold. (And often male--male only organizations
         | were quite widespread until relatively recently and AFAIK frats
         | --as well as sororities--can be single-sex but mostly based on
         | the fact that some level of living arrangements are OK to
         | restrict one sex or the other.)
        
           | ioblomov wrote:
           | Surprisingly, Columbia didn't accept women until 1983. Like
           | Harvard and Radcliffe, it was affiliated with the all-female
           | Barnard.
           | 
           | https://www.nytimes.com/1982/01/23/nyregion/columbia-
           | plans-t...
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | A _lot_ of well-known private colleges /universities were
             | single-sex, albeit sometimes with exchange programs, until
             | recently and there remain significant single-sex,
             | especially all-women, colleges today. Dartmouth, another
             | Ivy, didn't go co-ed until 1972.
             | 
             | A lot of universities, especially those more focused on
             | science and engineering, that were technically co-ed--even
             | from their start in the 1800s--also didn't have a lot of
             | women for a long time. The percentage of women at MIT was
             | still under 20% in the late seventies.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-05-12 23:01 UTC)