[HN Gopher] Launch HN: Clearspace (YC W23) - Cut back on screen ...
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Launch HN: Clearspace (YC W23) - Cut back on screen time
Hey HN, we're Royce and Oliver, the founders of Clearspace
(https://www.getclearspace.com). We make an iPhone app that helps
you reduce compulsive phone use. It regulates your social media
experiences and app usage, saving you from impulse opens and
mindless scrolls. Here's a demo:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zXLYvtG1zZ6ZRq01eGc8jlsn70v...
During the pandemic, we found ourselves spending more and more of
our lives on digital content. Youtube, Instagram, Twitter, even HN
were always _right_ there, and the impulse to open and consume
became stronger than ever. We realized how much of our technology
use was compulsive rather than intentional. Willpower alone was not
enough to solve the problem. Most of these products have been
designed to activate dopamine feedback loops and, to be blunt, keep
users hooked [1]. Not wanting to be addicted, we started cobbling
together "attention protection stacks": iPhone shortcuts, Chrome
Extensions, custom /etc/ files, anything to create digital
environments that aligned with our own goals rather than the
engagement metrics of big tech. We had some surprising successes
with that, so we decided to build a comprehensive and approachable
solution. We began with our worst pain point: mindless scrolling on
our phones. How it works: you tell us what apps you want to reduce
your usage of (edit: and websites! we just rolled out website
support this week), and we do the following to train better habits:
(1) App Intercepts: we inject a mandatory 15 second breathing
exercise before opening apps you've added to Clearspace. This helps
to break the dopamine feedback loop that your brain has learned,
where tapping an app icon yields an instant reward. (2)
Intentional Sessions: at the end of said breathing exercise, you
tell us how long you want to use an app for. Then you enter and
we'll pull you out after that amount of time. (3) Cumulative
Progress: each day you stay below your intended time limit adds to
your streak of successes. Over time, protecting your streak
frequently becomes more important than a "quick scroll" before bed
(and if you get a 100 day under-budget streak, we'll send you a
hat). (4) Teammates: you can add "teammates" who will receive
automatic texts if you exceed your budget on an app, remove it from
Clearspace, or delete Clearspace entirely. You may notice how this
is fighting fire with fire: we use tech to limit your tech use,
social features to curtail social media, and so on. The mechanisms
built into the big apps have such a conditioning effect on the
brain, they're nearly impossible for most people to resist. We
invoke similarly powerful mechanisms on _your_ behalf, to help your
life be less dominated by these things. Some of this only recently
became technically possible. The new ScreenTime API from Apple
allows users to connect apps on their phone to third party apps
(like us). We receive opaque "tokens" for each user app selection
and we can perform actions on the tokens, which affects the apps
without us knowing what the actual apps are. We can add and remove
"shields" to a token, which presents an obstructing interface over
an app or website. We can display a user's usage of a token over a
time period and display that data to them. Btw, after 3M "app
intercepts" (a 15 second wait), we've found that people opt _not_
to continue to the app they tried to open 54% of the time. We think
that says something about how much of our social media use as a
society is compulsive rather than intentional. Here are some
typical testimonials from users who have been recovering their time
by using our app:
https://twitter.com/martindaniel4/status/1630175865496584193,
https://twitter.com/timzyu/status/1632551744340123650,
https://twitter.com/jandralee/status/1650674167174377473 If you're
an iPhone user, we'd love for you to try our app and let us know
what you think! We have a freemium model: adding one app is free,
paid tier gives you unlimited apps. Your feedback on the app would
be deeply appreciated and more broadly we'd love to hear about how
you've navigated this problem in your life. [1] though maybe not
HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=77173,
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=372593.
Author : anteloper
Score : 157 points
Date : 2023-05-10 15:19 UTC (7 hours ago)
| vira28 wrote:
| Here is a simple change I did which reduced my phone usage:
|
| 1. Deleted all the native social media apps from phone
|
| 2. Stored passwords in a vault on my personal laptop
|
| If I do need to "use" a site, I've to do it only through my
| personal laptop.
| [deleted]
| lvkv wrote:
| How does Clearspace differentiate itself from One Sec, which has
| existed in this space for almost two years (if not longer)?
|
| I'm particularly interested in: - Is Clearspace cheaper over
| time?
|
| - Does Clearspace work on websites as well as apps?
|
| - Does Clearspace require manual Shortcuts setup like One Sec
| does?
|
| - Are there features here that I don't know I want?
| anteloper wrote:
| great question. a few ways
|
| 1. no, we're more expensive (at least last I checked they were
| 3.99/mon we're 6.99/mon or 44.99/yr)
|
| 2. yes we just rolled out website support this week.
|
| 3. no manual shortcut setup. just one click to add an app you
| want to moderate. (for websites you can go to an app you've
| added and just type in which web domains should apply to that
| app.)
|
| 4. yes, probably! we can pull you out of app sessions, which I
| personally find to be a game-changer. friction on the way in is
| great, but I tend to get lost in suggested content once I'm
| actually in an app. I need to be ripped out after a few
| minutes, and we do that. also adding "teammates" to receive
| automated texts when I'm slipping up has been very helpful for
| me personally.
| ferrous69 wrote:
| > no manual shortcut setup. just one click to add an app you
| want to moderate
|
| Is that true? When I click an app I'd like to moderate I see
| yellow text saying "Finish Setup!" Then I'm brought to the
| recorded video explaining how to do the shortcut setup.
|
| One click set up would be sweet, but I'd be somewhat
| surprised to hear apple lets you do the whole shortcut setup
| for the user.
|
| Would also be nice if the interrupt after your chosen amount
| of time were more intrusive, like apple's screentime
| notification is. And if you could make us do the breathing
| exercise again at that point.
|
| Regardless, think the app is very cool. I've been using a
| flip phone for a while to break phone addiction, which has
| been great overall. But I still keep my iphone around for
| things like traveling and a night out where I may need to use
| uber, and this seems like a great middle ground.
| bmarquez wrote:
| How would your company protect itself against Sherlocking? (when
| an OS adds features previously available as 3rd party apps)
|
| It seems like Google's Digital Wellbeing or the Apple equivalent
| could steal these features.
| anteloper wrote:
| Ultimately, this wouldn't be the worst thing. We actually hope
| that a lot more attention will be paid this issue by the big
| players (from a personal and mission standpoint). That being
| said, we don't actually think the best party to have helping
| you moderate your engagement with devices is the the one
| selling you the device.
|
| They may implement some of the same features but will always
| have to do some internal calculus on providing a smooth user
| experience and mitigating over-engagement. Our main goal is to
| equip people to reclaim control over their relationship with
| their devices - we think this is * probably * best solved by a
| startup
| jtlicardo wrote:
| This is great. When do you plan to release the Android version?
| anteloper wrote:
| Optimistically targeting end of this year, drop your email here
| and you'll be the first to know when we're live :)
| https://www.getclearspace.com/#newsletter
| fastball wrote:
| I've been using the app for a few months to gatekeep Twitter and
| Instagram, and my only real issue is that sometimes when those
| apps are _linked_ to from other places, I just want to be able to
| quickly see it _and then_ stop my doomscrolling. e.g. if my
| friend sends me a tweet, I want to be able to click the link,
| read the tweet, and then be immediately locked out of the app.
| With the current system, I click the link, have to do the whole
| 10s breathing exercise + quote, then read the tweet, and I still
| have a bit of time to mess around in the app before I 'm locked
| out. So I actually end up spending more time distracted in those
| situations than I otherwise would.
| anteloper wrote:
| love this callout, this is definitely on our roadmap. we refer
| to it internally as "one-tweet." basically - we'd love to be
| able to either
|
| 1. render that single tweet on the shield so you don't even
| have to enter the app to see it
|
| or
|
| 2. let you passively stack up all the links you get sent
| socially, like a reading list, so you can work through them all
| at once.
|
| will keep you posted on which way we go but definitely going to
| address this because it's a pain-point of mine as well.
| jxramos wrote:
| ha, that's the first time I ever heard that term
| "doomscrolling", definitely feels that way in many places.
| Makes me think of what the opposite would look like. Something
| in the direction of https://www.dictionary.com/e/pop-
| culture/glow-up/ but for websites.
| nhourcard wrote:
| love this. note that i struggled to find UK's country code in
| your list.
| joewhatkins wrote:
| The nag/friction that happens every time I try to open the app
| when I'm under buddget on this has cut down my doomscrolling so
| much. Really a fan of this approach - Twitter usage is down
| probably 95%. General stoke on this is really high!
| panchtatvam wrote:
| If one needs to use an app to reduce the time spent on apps, then
| the person already has no self control. Since your app promotes
| such ideology of people who are slaves to technology,this app
| actually promotes such a repressive machine dependent society.
|
| Technology is supposed to serve society not rule or govern its
| habits. People should be taught to use technology not be a slave
| to it by using non-technology means.
|
| ---
|
| ydi kisii vykti vishess ko is epp kaa pryog krke epoN pr ho rhii
| smy kii brbaadii ko roknaa pdd rhaa hai to us vykti kaa svyN pr
| niyNtrnn hii nhiiN hai / kyoNki aapkaa epp aise log jo ki
| tkniik ke gulaam haiN kii kuvicaardhaaraa ko prclit krtaa hai to
| yh epp asl meN aisii mshiin nirdhr smaaj ko prcaar krtaa hai /
|
| tkniik smaaj kii sevaa krne ke liye hai uspr niyNtrnn yaa uskii
| aadtoN pr raaj krne ke liye nhiiN / logoN ko tkniik kaa pryog
| krnaa sikhaayaa jaanaa caahie naa ki uskaa gulaam bnnaa vo bhii
| binaa tkniikii maadhymoN se /
| dang wrote:
| Ok, but please don't take HN threads on generic flamewar
| tangents. This is in the site guidelines:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
| wnolens wrote:
| Not all of us are as perfect as you.
| csmeder wrote:
| Hi Royce and Oliver, I have a suggestion: look into dimming the
| screen slowly for the last 30-60 seconds before you pull a person
| out of the app. This will greatly decrease the annoyance of being
| pulled out. It gives you time to anticipate being done with your
| session. I do this with my toddler.
|
| We let him use our phone to look at family videos while we are
| changing him. If I turn the phone off abruptly, it can be
| frustrating for him at times. However, if I manually dim the
| screen more and more (and lower the volume more and more), it
| feels natural that the phone is getting "tired". He is then okay
| with leaving the phone.
| lifeisstillgood wrote:
| It's this and a thousand other "hacks to handle human failings"
| that will allow us to have the promise of technology while
| minimising the downsides - just as we did for weavers looms,
| coal power and so on
| prionassembly wrote:
| Do you have physical brightness buttons? Do you have any more
| gradual transition hacks?
|
| Our 2-yr old doesn't have access to phones at all -- except
| perhaps when he grabs one that's lying around; but then he
| expects it taken from him. But he's so taken with TV that we
| plan screen time in reverse: start at dinner time and subtract
| how much time we want him to be there. Our whole approach to
| tantrums is having something else lined up rather than just
| shutting things off and leaving a void. I'm fascinated by your
| methods.
| jxramos wrote:
| he's probably just surreptitiously using control center to
| dial things down. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202769
|
| One thing I discovered recently was that iPhone volume
| buttons decrement the volume 1/16 at a time.
| csmeder wrote:
| Correct, as he gets older this won't work because he will
| understand what I'm doing.
|
| I've thought about writing an app that shows a pre set
| collection of videos from my photo library and then slowly
| turns down the brightness after a few minutes. If anyone
| want to build this let me know. I'd love to use it.
| csmeder wrote:
| We don't have a tv in the house. And we don't use our
| phones/iPad in front of our son. So the only time he sees a
| screen is when we are changing his diaper. The only exception
| has been when we are all sick we watch a family movie on the
| iPad with him. And if I'm being honest a few Saturday
| mornings I'll watch a show with him while we are waking up.
|
| I use control center to lower the brightness.
| anteloper wrote:
| This is brilliant, will absolutely hack around with it this
| weekend. I think it's possible to temporarily modify brightness
| on iOS as a third party app, thanks very much for the
| suggestion
| pfista wrote:
| Instead of brightness, you could make the screen go black and
| white. I already do this to reduce my screen time. You can
| set screen colors in accessibility, and scrolling instagram
| is much more boring when it's in B&W.
| nomat wrote:
| same. wish there was a shortcut i could place on my home
| screen as a toggle though.
| Aaronstotle wrote:
| I have my triple tap set to B&W, definitely makes things a
| lot less interesting.
| gukov wrote:
| I had that and found it to be less effective since it was
| so easy to disable it.
|
| I'm now using the iOS shortcut automation turning on the
| BW mode at 10pm and then disabling it at 5pm.
| jh00ker wrote:
| Wow! Brilliant idea!
| paolomaffei wrote:
| Absolutely gold suggestion. This might just be the future for
| most internet-connected device use, and particularly for
| children/supervised use like you're describing.
| Kareem71 wrote:
| Freedom.to has been working pretty effectively for me on Android.
| You guys care to comment on why your approach may be better?
| Definitely willing to try you guys out
| anteloper wrote:
| We don't have an android solution yet, so stick with them for
| now :)
|
| We found Freedom's VPN solution to be great for completely
| blocking out distractions when you don't need any internet and
| want to focus in on certain tasks. That can be helpful for
| mobile too, but we've found the day-in-day-out experience of
| injecting "intentionality" just-in-time to be more effective
| for us than pre-scheduled "allowed" and "not allowed" blocks.
| mauz wrote:
| Been using this for the past couple of weeks; reduced my
| instagram usage time by over 80%. Loving the approach you took
| for this!
| anteloper wrote:
| thank you! these anecdotes are literally what get us out of bed
| in the morning
| Aea wrote:
| Love the idea of interrupting the "dopamine loop" with a delay
| vs. simply tracking or restricting usage. I worked on creating a
| Chrome Extension several years ago for myself and I can't believe
| I didn't have this (in retrospect) obvious idea. I have a few
| concerns:
|
| * The UI feels somewhat unpolished for asking me to purchase an
| annual plan on signup.
|
| * I would prefer a free version that is fully featured for a
| short trial period that later reverts to a limited (one app)
| version. I have more than one problem app and it's hard to get a
| feel right now.
|
| * Can I overlap schedules (i.e. open during lunch and any time
| during the weekend)?
|
| * How do I set this up for something like YouTube? I have several
| modes of using this app: 1) mindlessly watching 5-10 minute
| videos looking for the next one, or 2) setting up a long playlist
| while I'm working out and treating it as a podcast app. I only
| want to prevent the former.
| anilshanbhag wrote:
| I can relate to this. I created SuperFocus
| (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/superfocus-stop-
| sc...) with a similar idea. Dopamine loop is a big problem. I
| have tried site blockers / SuperFocus which is a feed blocker
| but there was something missing and have been looking for the
| magic solution. Just signed up for Clearspace and immediately
| felt this is it.
|
| Planning to rewrite SuperFocus later this week to do the same
| on desktop as most of my time spent is on the desktop browser.
| paolomaffei wrote:
| Hey this is great and something I started on working myself.
| Just a note that if you pin the extension on the extension
| page itself it gives a very, very confusing message of
| "SuperFocus works on Youtube, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter,
| and Instagram.
|
| SuperFocus is not yet available for
| dboceidahklphhjpfbpnicodnbkoiokn."
|
| thought it was a bug before I realised that must be the
| chrome extension id, but it's quite likely people will first
| open the extension on this tab as that's where you teach them
| to pin it
|
| keep up the good work!
| anteloper wrote:
| - fair enough, for some users they reach us at a point of "I'm
| wholesale re-arranging my digital life RIGHT NOW" so they'd
| prefer to subscribe annually at signup and remove all barriers
| to better digital habits while they're in the mindset of habit
| change. will give this some thought.
|
| - we've been thinking about experimenting with this model. I
| personally find it annoying forgetting to unsubscribe to things
| I only wanted to trial but I understand your use case.
|
| - yes you can do this - quick demo here:
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W7gU6ZhlA-fiLx0T2j5h9A14rdc...
|
| - hmm, you could alter your youtube session options so that
| your only options are 45 minutes or longer? this wouldn't
| explicitly prevent you from shorter sessions, but might cause
| you to think "wait I don't have 45 minutes right now - forget
| it". would be curious to hear if that works for you.
| lukko wrote:
| Really cool! I did try One Sec, but actually setting up the
| shortcut to divert is quite tedious, and it only works at the
| point of opening the restricted app.
|
| I like the UI, just wondering if the 'Breathe' prompt will get
| old quite quickly. I created an app (https://www.lungy.app) that
| tries to make each breathing session feel very different,
| hopefully making it feel fresh each time - I wonder if more
| variation would work in this case too.
| eks391 wrote:
| 15 seconds isn't very long. By making those seconds not boring
| (engaging the user), I feel that would cause the opposite
| effect of the intended self-reflection and friction the 15
| seconds are supposed to create
| anteloper wrote:
| This is INCREDIBLY cool. And yes - the breathe screen
| definitely does get old, but fortunately the friction continues
| to do its job.
|
| Would you be interested in collabing?
| lukko wrote:
| Yep, definitely. I think it'd be a good fit - email hello
| [at] lungy [dot] app
| abpavel wrote:
| Truly Awesome! However "the website is not supported" is a
| dealbreaker for me. I do my doom scrolling through browsers, as
| the apps have already been restricted through screen time.
| anteloper wrote:
| This is actually a bit of a misnomer at the moment, we need to
| update our messaging - but you can in fact restrict any
| websites you want.
|
| To do it, open clearspace and tap one of the apps you've
| already set up. Then click the "websites" section. You'll be
| able to associate domains there, so whenever that app is
| unlocked, those websites will be as well. Otherwise they're
| restricted.
|
| Hope this helps! Literally just rolling out website support so
| need to update the messaging in a few places, thanks for
| flagging.
| Multiplayer wrote:
| This isn't working for me on my macbook with the chrome
| extension. I've added cnn.com, nytimes.com, etc and I can
| still get to them on chrome with the extension. I've
| restarted my browser. Or am I misunderstanding that this is
| possible?
| ekanes wrote:
| I also doomscroll on a laptop. +1 for a MacOS version
| someday.
| itake wrote:
| Does this work for launching apps throw search? I've been wanting
| to try it, but I assume you're doing the "replace an app with a
| shortcut that redirects trick." I think the original all can
| still be found via search?
| anteloper wrote:
| It does yes! We actually aren't doing the "replace with a shift
| that redirects" trick. We're able to intervene on the native
| app by integrating with the new ScreenTime API
| efields wrote:
| but I like screens
| mustacheemperor wrote:
| I'm a Clearspace user who found this app via a post on HN, and I
| can't thank the creators enough. I have not fully extracted
| myself from use of Reddit yet, but it's remarkable how effective
| this app was at breaking my cycle of opening, scrolling, closing,
| and reopening less than an hour later. I've tried other
| screentime management apps, but it seems like something about
| Clearspace's approach with the centering exercises and the
| intentional choice to spend X minutes browsing changes your
| mental relationship with the feed.
|
| I genuinely feel as though I am more present during idle moments
| and have reclaimed time to myself - truly to myself - during my
| weekends.
|
| I am very grateful for Clearspace. Now, I just wish you'd release
| a Firefox extension so I can lock down Reddit from my computer
| too.
| moneywoes wrote:
| What's the distinction between the IOS inbuilt feature that does
| this?
| cwoolfe wrote:
| Great work! Thanks for sharing.
| TobyTheDog123 wrote:
| Wow. I didn't know Apple let apps have that level of restriction
| on other installed apps. Perhaps I'm behind on my iOS APIs. I'd
| be eager to learn more on what kind of parental-control/screen-
| time magic goes into this.
|
| This is really cool, like incredibly cool.
|
| Screen Time reminders just did not work for me, it was a no-
| brainer to just hit "Get more time" and put in my passcode, but
| this adds a lot more friction.
|
| Still, I think it's a bandaid on a larger problem, and if I was
| truly addicted (which I very well could be), I would just change
| the settings or uninstall the app. Not a problem you can solve,
| of course, but this is still a great leap forward.
| tedmiston wrote:
| The biggest problem I experienced with Screen Time is that when
| an app is outside of its limits, push notifications from it do
| not get delivered. So enabling the feature caused me to end up
| missing out on timely push notifications. Sometimes the
| notifications during the downtime got delivered later and
| sometimes they just never appeared at all.
|
| This seems like a bug to me, or at best a very unintuitive side
| effect. I wish there were a way to still have push
| notifications delivered normally and only have Screen Time
| effect actual app usage.
| anteloper wrote:
| totally agree - exceptionally unintuitive side effect. we've
| been pushing on the apple support ecosystem to add the
| ability to "shield" apps without obstructing their
| notifications, and other developers have been piling on.
|
| fingers crossed for WWDC23
| tedmiston wrote:
| > ... if I was truly addicted ... I would just ... uninstall
| the app. Not a problem you can solve, of course, but this is
| still a great leap forward.
|
| Their feature of triggering a text to a trusted friend for
| accountability if you do this was really clever.
| anteloper wrote:
| We might be able to get there at some point. Yes you can
| uninstall us, but if you have a support network that
| automatically gets notified if you uninstall us, you might
| think twice about it.
| atleastoptimal wrote:
| I get the feeling that all these "digital detox" apps, if they
| aim to scale and make more money, will do so by "whitelisting"
| certain popular apps by making access to them relatively easier,
| bottlenecking the competitors.
|
| Let's say it's the future, 10% of phone users have some version
| of this on their phone. Snapchat pays them 10 million to reduce
| the penalty for using Snapchat auto-suggest Instagram on the
| block list.
| anteloper wrote:
| that's an interesting one - it's one of the reasons we've opted
| for consumer subscription as a business model. we want our
| interests to be firmly aligned with our users best intentions
| for themselves. they pay us to spend less of their life doing
| things they ultimately don't are about. we make money by
| helping them spend less of their life doing things they
| ultimately don't care about. as long as that's true, I think it
| would be pretty easy to say no when snapchat comes along asking
| for a service-specific friction reduction.
|
| our real hope is actually that tools like clearspace tip the
| balance of power to individuals. if snapchat or IG are taking a
| real hit, they'll finally be incentivized to minimize
| "regrettable time" spent on their apps. that's probably an
| easier task than doing a backdoor deal with a company who makes
| its money but protecting its users from regrettable screen
| time.
| tedmiston wrote:
| How long until you get a FAANG acquihire offer where they quietly
| shut this app down? /s (kinda)
| jh00ker wrote:
| Right? Looking at you, Apple...
| Fraaaank wrote:
| What is the difference between Clearspace and One Sec
| (https://one-sec.app/) ?
| anteloper wrote:
| a few differences!
|
| - one tap to set up an app with us (rather than creating an
| automation in your shortcuts app)
|
| - we can pull you out of an app at the end of the time you
| intended to use it for
|
| - we support restricting websites
|
| - we let you accumulate your progress over time via a streak,
| which is quite motivating (at least for me personally)
|
| - we have a social accountability layer, via "teammates" who
| receive updates when you exceed your budgets or remove tracking
| for an app
| [deleted]
| oidar wrote:
| ok. I tried it out, bought the subscription and it's super buggy.
| The blanks screens between the flow are just not smooth at all.
| Having to manage the notifications and the inbetween screens - is
| a mess. And when the you get an error that this app has been
| prevented from opening b/c it is restricted - and get caught in a
| loop - it's pretty off putting. Back to shortcuts for me.
| anteloper wrote:
| sorry for the frustrating experience. it sounds like something
| went wrong here - would you mind opening the app -> settings ->
| report an error?
|
| that way I'll be able to see your user id and track down the
| issue.
| awwstn wrote:
| i found this a few weeks ago and have been really enjoying it.
| i'm on the paid plan. my screen time on twitter and instagram has
| gone down significantly as a result of the slight inconvenience
| every time i open them. and doing the breathing exercise before
| plunging into hellish social media is also surprisingly
| refreshing.
|
| the app is a little bit buggy, which sometimes makes it
| impossible to "pause" it. but one could argue that's a feature
| not a bug!
|
| overall impressed with Clearspace's clever approach to this
| issue.
| postcynical wrote:
| Same here. Managed to wean off twitter. No longer feeling the
| urge or need to check it.
| anteloper wrote:
| appreciate that! definitely working through the bugs one by one
| - both bugs in our code and frankly bugs in the ScreenTime API
| itself. but we're starting to converge on a stable state, and
| to their credit Apple has been fairly responsive in moving the
| API along and responding to developer requests.
| hackitup7 wrote:
| I downloaded One Sec a few days ago based upon an HN rec, and
| it's been really great for this class of problem
| stusmall wrote:
| This is something I'll happily pay for. Love to see the freemium
| model. Can't wait for the Android version
| anteloper wrote:
| Optimistically targeting end of this year, drop your email here
| and you'll be the first to know when we're live :)
|
| https://www.getclearspace.com/#newsletter
| paolomaffei wrote:
| Great work! I think apps like this will be seen as pioneers in
| the age of getting back our attention. From somebody else very
| interested in the topic, with a pending HN application for a
| startup app in the same space
| breck wrote:
| My phone broke about a year ago and I never replaced it. That has
| made my life a lot better. More time to be in the moment with
| people and think. Highly recommend it.
|
| (I have an iPad Pro as you still need something that can run
| apps, but there's no risk of me lugging that thing around)
| ttamslam wrote:
| Did you replace it with a "dumb" phone for emergencies?
| breck wrote:
| No. For emergencies have had to rely on nearby human beings,
| like the 1990's.
| roycebranning wrote:
| Any crazy stories from this?
| eks391 wrote:
| I have dreamed of ditching the phone but haven't because so
| many sites that require a phone number to make an account, and
| some that use that number to validate your identity. How do you
| get around this?
| cmpaul wrote:
| Take my money.
| topthendown wrote:
| I know I need something like this
| _rohan wrote:
| Looking at my screen time stats, I spend most of my phone time in
| the browser. Is there a way to restrict specific websites instead
| of the browser as a whole?
| anteloper wrote:
| Yep you can do that! See
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35890537 in this thread
| for explicit instructions :)
| akshithg wrote:
| I've been using onesec[1] for a year now it's been working great
| for me. Additionally works great on the browser I use.
|
| Onesec uses the shortcut/automation on iOS to intercept app open
| and not the screen time api you mentioned. So it does take a
| little time for the initial setup, that's the only friction I
| remember from a long time.
|
| Just putting it out there.
|
| I do like the additional social feature here. Would give it a
| try.
|
| 1. https://one-sec.app/
| anteloper wrote:
| they've executed brilliantly, glad to see it's working well for
| you. along with the one-tap setup and social accountability
| features you point out, other noticeable differences between
| their solution and our are
|
| - we can pull you out of an app at the end of the time you
| intended to use it for
|
| - we support restricting websites
|
| - we let you accumulate your progress over time via a streak,
| which is quite motivating (at least for me personally)
| noahchumsky wrote:
| One sec lets you restrict websites! But the other two
| features you listed are compelling. I may give it a try
| a2dam wrote:
| I've also been using one sec, and ended up paying for Pro use.
| A feature I really like is the ability to increase the duration
| of the waiting period every time you successfully open the app
| within a 24 hour period. Just a suggestion if you're looking
| for them.
|
| It's also very rigorous about switching to the app from other
| apps, to the point where even if you quickly switch out it will
| make you wait again when switching back. The ability to bypass
| this within a 10 minute window (or whatever) is what made me
| pay for it. Not sure if yours does the same thing, but thought
| I'd suggest that too. I'll give yours a try. Thanks for making
| my phone better!
| vrglvrglvrgl wrote:
| [dead]
| pantojax45 wrote:
| Why/how is your app better than setting native screen time limits
| in iOS? Doesn't that accomplish the same thing (except tapping
| numbers rather than seeing a quote).
|
| (All that said, glad you're poking at this issue!)
| anteloper wrote:
| a few ways! but the most succinct answer is that with
| clearspace, no learned behavior path can become a compulsive
| habit for quickly getting more scrolling.
|
| every configuration of screen time limits we've tried has ended
| with us learning the quickest behavioral path to more scrolling
| (ie: quickly tapping "5 more minutes", entering passcode, etc).
| anteloper wrote:
| more tactically:
|
| 1. we hit you with friction _every_ time you enter an app you
| want to moderate your engagement with. with screen time
| limits, as long as you 're under your budget, you'll get
| through no problem. in time this means you learn that early
| in the day is the best time to use social apps. we think this
| is a second order failure.
|
| 2. we let you stack your progress over time with your streak,
| which seems to be a far better behavioral motivator for
| staying in line with your goals.
|
| 3. we report usage for the apps you actually care about
| moderating. (I basically ignore my native screen time report,
| because "being up 25% this week" might mean I went on a long
| drive and was using maps to navigate, or that I doom-scrolled
| in bed until 3am.) we try to report data you actually care
| about (there's a ton we still need to do on this front, but
| we're getting better at it)
| ekanes wrote:
| Love what you're building!
|
| You mentioned to lukko above (lungy.app) that you might be
| interested in collabing, and then above you mention
| streaks... wanted to make sure you knew that with apps you
| can "call" other apps via shortcuts/urls and even get
| return data. At some point I'm hoping to work with a
| streaks app (rather than build it myself) etc etc.
| renewiltord wrote:
| My problem is that I use Chrome to check something reasonable and
| then find myself exiting this fugue state after I have made a
| dozen comments on various social media boards like HN or Reddit.
| When I've tried things that block browser before, they interrupt
| my normal work. That's frustrating so I disable them.
|
| Without sophistication I am never going to use a piece of
| software that just blocks apps.
|
| I hope your software is able to help people who have the problem
| but don't use the website version of things.
| keenmaster wrote:
| Do the usage limitation controls also apply to Safari and other
| mobile browsers?
|
| I.e. if I add the Facebook app to clearspace, can I also add
| friction to using Facebook.com? This looks great by the way
| anteloper wrote:
| yes - you can. this works "out of the box" for safari (ie - if
| you add facebook, you'll have to go through friction to reach
| facebook.com on safari without doing anything else.)
|
| we just added support for chrome and other browsers by allowing
| you to associate domains with apps you've added. so associating
| facebok.com with your facebook app applies that same friction
| regardless of browser now.
| joewhatkins wrote:
| When I had it block the Twitter mobile app, it also blocked
| twitter.com - I assume the same thing will happen if you block
| Facebook. The founders have mentioned they're adding support
| for blocking specific websites soon.
| [deleted]
| Gerard0 wrote:
| Serious question: are we sure we get a dopamine reward/thing when
| we do this? Has this been proven?
|
| Not saying this "addiction" does not exist. I like some "drugs"
| and smoke and my phone is by far the worst and hardest to
| manage/quit.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| No, it's modern day bloodletting. Dopamine is involved in
| almost everything and that's why this weird metaphor of
| 'dopamine fasting' blaming it for random things became popular,
| however there is no scientific basis for it.
| (https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/dopamine-fasting-
| misunde...)
|
| It's not an addiction in any serious sense of the term and it's
| arguably misleading and disempowering people. Not every habit
| change needs to be framed as addiction battling.
| blast wrote:
| There's no single definition of addiction. Gabor Mate's sense
| of the term seems serious enough, and screentime/socialmedia
| habit certainly fits: a behavior that gives relief or
| pleasure but in the long run causes harm, and you can't give
| it up despite those negative consequences.
| anteloper wrote:
| yes - more and more research is cropping up around the chemical
| response to social media usage but here's a particularly
| succinct paper - dopamine reward is absolutely associated.
|
| https://www.iomcworld.org/open-access/neurotransmitter-dopam...
|
| To Barrin's point, the jury is still out on formally qualifying
| this as "addiction" - and for most people the context of habit
| change is apt.
| computing wrote:
| Signed up right away. How does it work?
| ericyd wrote:
| A pertinent question indeed - the OP was entirely devoid of
| detail!
|
| /s
| verse wrote:
| Hope you make an Android version
| endisneigh wrote:
| though I do like this app. this app, along with onesec really
| illustrate what's annoying about modern tech development. why pay
| monthly for something whose feature set rarely changes? something
| like this ideally should be $10 once.
| anteloper wrote:
| We actually do expect our product to change quite a bit over
| time, basically because of the nature of the arena we're
| playing in. platforms will change over time, as will they apps
| we're helping moderate, and we'll always be trying to integrate
| as seamlessly as possible to play defense for our users.
|
| As such, we think a recurring subscription is the best way to
| align our interests with our users and make sure we're building
| the right thing over time. When customers are consistently
| paying, if we don't consistently deliver the value they're
| paying for, they leave. It means we're in a tighter feedback
| loop with users about what's working and what isn't.
|
| Basically we think it's mission-critical that the technology
| protecting your attention to be as well built as the tech
| trying to exploit it, and our best guess at the moment is
| recurring subscription is the best way to accomplish that.
| wnolens wrote:
| Struggling with this right now and would pay immediately if it
| were available on Android. Keep it up!
| [deleted]
| chandureddyvari wrote:
| I've been using Screen zen for quite some time now. I found it to
| be incredibly useful. Curious to know how clearspace is different
| from screenzen, given the latter is free on app store.
| https://apps.apple.com/in/app/screenzen-screen-time-control/...
| anteloper wrote:
| A few ways!
|
| - social accountability via teammates
|
| - data reporting and streaks - we think displaying habit-change
| progress should have a cumulative and compounding effect.
| streaks are proving particularly effective for our users in
| this regard
|
| - website support for non-safari browsers
|
| - more complex scheduling - Screenzen will let you specify
| 1-3pm on MWF, for example, but not 1-3pm and 9-11pm MWF)
|
| - much, much more to come. we're building for the cross
| platform future
| louhike wrote:
| According to the app description, it's free for a limited time
| though.
| YPCrumble wrote:
| What is the benefit of this over Apple's default screen time
| app?
| anteloper wrote:
| a few ways! but the most succinct answer is that with
| clearspace, no learned behavior path can become a compulsive
| habit for quickly getting more scrolling.
|
| every configuration of screen time limits we've tried has
| ended with us learning the quickest behavioral path to more
| scrolling (ie: quickly tapping "5 more minutes", entering
| passcode, etc).
| TechBro8615 wrote:
| I love the concept. Have you guys considered selling dumb phones?
| If done right I think you could make them a cool status item, or
| build a brand around the general idea of reverting to less
| addictive tech.
| anteloper wrote:
| we had a fun idea around a one month challenge -
| sendmeyourphone.com.
|
| basically you sign up, we mail you a dumb phone with
| instructions for putting your smartphone sim card in, and you
| mail us back your smart phone. after 30 days we send it back
| with some swag saying you did it and some instructions for
| restarting your digital life with good habits post-detox.
|
| would love to get around to it, but channeling steve jobs for
| now - "focus means saying no to a hundred other good ideas"
| rd wrote:
| are there docs available on the screentime API? I remember
| looking into doing this a while back, and nothing was available
| as recently as 6 months ago. would love to chat more about this
| if you have the time - any email i can reach you at?
| anteloper wrote:
| yes docs (albeit fairly sparse ones) are now available - feel
| free to email me, oliver@getclearspace.com
| ryanisnan wrote:
| This looks great! The only thing I'd really advocate for is not
| pricing the app ridiculously. I tried Opal for a while, but their
| pricing model per month is a bit ridiculous. Effectively a
| subscription service for what should be a single-purchase app
| demonstrates developer greed.
|
| Edit: I'm a bit disappointed to see monthly fees here. Can you
| help justify to me why an app like this demands ongoing cost?
| anteloper wrote:
| I hear that. The truth is that it's not solely about generating
| revenue, but aligning interests and making sure we're building
| the right thing over time. When customers are consistently
| paying, if we don't consistently deliver the value they're
| paying for, they leave. It means we're in a tighter feedback
| loop with users about what's working and what isn't.
|
| It also lets us plan for the long term since we have a decent
| idea of what our revenue will be. Particularly in this space
| that's going to be important - we'll have to continuously
| evolve to changes in the platforms we're operating on and the
| apps themselves that we're helping restrict. Basically we think
| it's mission-critical that the technology protecting your
| attention to be as well built as the tech trying to exploit it,
| and we see this as * probably * the most effective way to
| accomplish that.
| ryanisnan wrote:
| Thanks for the reply. Ultimately my willingness to pay would
| come down to how things improve for me using it. I'll perhaps
| give the paid plan a try.
|
| One possible thing I'd recommend on a trial is to have more
| of a real(?) experience. Curious how the one-app limitation
| ends up conveying in terms of realized value. Will report
| back.
|
| Thanks again, and nice looking product.
| snickmy wrote:
| I was wondering on IOS what api you are using to interject app
| call.
| cwoolfe wrote:
| "Some of this only recently became technically possible. The
| new ScreenTime API from Apple allows users to connect apps on
| their phone to third party apps (like us). We receive opaque
| "tokens" for each user app selection and we can perform actions
| on the tokens, which affects the apps without us knowing what
| the actual apps are. We can add and remove "shields" to a
| token, which presents an obstructing interface over an app or
| website. We can display a user's usage of a token over a time
| period and display that data to them."
| martingalex2 wrote:
| It is wholly interesting that such a tool is needed. We need a
| new generation motivated by self-control and at an early age be
| critical of how technology triggers dopamine responses. I would
| be interested in seeing clinical classification of app addictions
| as a real health issue that deserves treatment. The real answer
| is to put down the phone. We (in this industry) are all complicit
| in the creation and promulgation of this problem.
| diehunde wrote:
| Wouldn't it be easier not to give kids phones or tables until
| they are a certain age? I feel like the only reason my friends
| and I aren't addicted to apps is because we didn't grow up
| having a smartphone available all day. I got my first
| smartphone when I was about 20, so I never developed the
| compulsion of having it around me all the time
| 542354234235 wrote:
| I would disagree. I don't think it is on people to just be more
| "motivated by self-control". I think it is an industry making a
| highly addictive product that needs to be properly regulated.
| Similar to regulating the tobacco industry in how much nicotine
| could be in cigarettes, the marketing to children, the
| restriction of the most addictive flavors, etc. The answer
| cannot just be "to put down the phone" the same as it
| wasn't/isn't just to put down the cigarette.
|
| I think that digital devices/apps/etc. need left and right
| limits on addictive mechanisms like variable reinforcement
| schedules. Or maybe it is too late for that and the genie is
| out of the bottle. Maybe it is impossible to regulate, and big
| data and deep learning will allow apps to exploit deeper and
| deeper psychological mechanisms in our minds to highjack our
| attention until it is impossible to break out of it. The
| digital equivalent of fentanyl in a world were we evolved to
| handle opium poppy plants.
| jahewson wrote:
| Why build an app when you can just replace humanity with
| something different and not reflective of actual humans?
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