[HN Gopher] Chaos Communication Camp 2023 - Call for Participation
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       Chaos Communication Camp 2023 - Call for Participation
        
       Author : todsacerdoti
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2023-05-09 19:08 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (events.ccc.de)
 (TXT) w3m dump (events.ccc.de)
        
       | humanistbot wrote:
       | I'm interested in these topics, but I don't speak German and
       | absolutely hate camping. Burning Man is a big no for me because
       | of the camping aspect alone. I don't want to have to step off a
       | plane and figure out how to buy a bunch of camping equipment in
       | another country, haul it to a rural park where it looks like
       | there is only a limited bus service, and then figure out what to
       | do with it before flying back. Is this event not for me? It's OK
       | if not.
        
         | Canada wrote:
         | I'm with you, I prefer to stay in a nearby hotel. If you go,
         | prepare to deal with shelling out a lot for taxis and figuring
         | out rides with people.. it is a really fun event. I went in
         | 2015, and I haven't been to anything quite like it.
        
       | dijit wrote:
       | I will say this, even if I am aware that I will be crucified for
       | saying it; because we all have heroes and villains and try to
       | think the world is black and white -- and we especially don't
       | like to think poorly of the people who's political opinions we
       | agree with.
       | 
       | However: I have gone really sour on the CCC since 2019.
       | 
       | I agree with a lot of the political opinions they express but the
       | method in which they express them really makes me feel as if
       | they're trying to bring the movement down.
       | 
       | For example: I have been tangially related to a degree of
       | bullying behaviour in the under the guise of "everyone who
       | disagrees with me is a right wing troll".
       | 
       | I might go back to the events, it's still the best computer
       | conference in Europe in my opinion.
       | 
       | I must express to them how skittish on the events I have become
       | though (and this is my way of making _them_ know that, even if I
       | 'm quite certain people will loudly disagree with me on the basis
       | that "if you disagree with them then you are probably also a
       | right wing troll"). Which, anyone who knows me will certainly
       | disagree with and it's not like I'm hiding behind a throwaway. I
       | will gladly take the downvotes to express this, it proves
       | nothing.
        
         | the_third_wave wrote:
         | It is really sad to see how the _Code of Conduct Crew_ has
         | infiltrated the Chaos Computer Club and turned the Chaos
         | Communication Camp into yet another target for the thought
         | police. This really stands diametrically opposed to the
         | original intent of these hacker camps and, if allowed to
         | continue, can be the death knell for this type of gathering of
         | free minds.
         | 
         | One of the keynote speakers for H2K was Jello Biafra, the
         | frontman for the Dead Kennedys. His message of "don't criticise
         | the media, _become the media_ " was well received and has in
         | many ways come to fruition with the advent of "alternative"
         | media ranging from individuals to well-organised groups
         | publishing text, audio and video over the 'net. The message was
         | clear, freedom of expression is core to the somewhat anarchist-
         | leaning crowd which tends to go to these meetings. The Code of
         | Conduct Crew's message seems to be "don't criticise us, _obey
         | us_ ". While this is not the first time a "somewhat anarchist
         | organisation" [1] gets taken over by authoritarians it would be
         | a big loss if they succeeded.
         | 
         | [1] anarchist as in "a herd of cats", not as in "people in
         | trench coats throwing bombs"
        
         | 1827163 wrote:
         | Is that something to do with Geek Feminism and the imposition
         | of "codes of conduct" on conference attendees? And doing so has
         | politicized the events? If that is true, then it's yet another
         | example of pressure groups imposing their agenda on these
         | events. It started roughly in 2014. Or was there a general
         | political shift which coincides with this, at the time? Anyway,
         | I have stopped going to these events because of the politics,
         | particularly the censorship aspect.
         | 
         | These "codes of conduct" go against my fundamental principles
         | of freedom of speech and liberty, the whole reason I got
         | involved in open source in the first place. They prohibit far
         | more than rude or aggressive behavior. And they are a specific
         | political group's attempt to control what we can say at these
         | events and on occasion, even outside them.
         | 
         | Whatever it was, _something_ changed politically in 2014 - 2016
         | timeframe or so. Maybe a major social media platform changed it
         | 's policies which allowed this behavior to flourish? I'm wildly
         | speculating here.
         | 
         | Prior to that we didn't really care about anything political,
         | other than civil liberties at these conferences? But there
         | wasn't really this left-wing / right-wing divide back then. At
         | least not from what I remember.
         | 
         | After thinking about it for a while, yes, nobody cared if you
         | were liberal or conservative before that.
         | 
         | I'm not going to allow any chilling effect to prevent me from
         | speaking up about it, and I'm taking any downvotes and flagging
         | as well. It will be interesting to see what happens. It's good
         | that this site doesn't delete flagged posts, it just hides them
         | from view by default.
         | 
         | That way we avoid the "spiral of silence" effect that leads to
         | self-censorship. If we all did the same, then this problem,
         | assuming it is valid, would not have existed in the first
         | place.
        
           | schmidtleonard wrote:
           | > I'm not going to allow any chilling effect to prevent me
           | from speaking up
           | 
           | Please pick your battles.
           | 
           | In any case, good luck.
        
             | 1827163 wrote:
             | Someone has to speak up, otherwise we will remain in the
             | present situation, which sounds very dire indeed. OK,
             | whatever it is, it's my first foray into it, and I hope I'm
             | treading carefully enough?
        
           | slily wrote:
           | At face value, most of the codes of conduct that popped up
           | recently look reasonable, but they were introduced in
           | response to a movement that has replaced this simple,
           | straightforward and truly inclusive idea of treating everyone
           | respectfully with an obsession about labels, group
           | representation and calling out any remote perceived slight
           | towards protected groups.
           | 
           | Sometimes I wonder if I would have better professional
           | opportunities or job safety if I specified that I am
           | homosexual on LinkedIn and behaved flamboyantly instead of
           | keeping it to myself. This call for participation reinforces
           | that feeling with language like "[We] especially want to
           | encourage FLINTA* (Female, Lesbian, Inter, Non-Binary, Trans,
           | Agender) and Queer individuals, BIPOC and humans from the
           | Global South to submit their talks, workshops or Lightning
           | Talks."
           | 
           | Once, I saw a regular attendee in another conference complain
           | that there are too many white males, suggesting that they
           | should refrain from attending, and perhaps send a woman or a
           | person who is not white to represent their company instead,
           | and "threatening" to withdraw himself because he is also a
           | white male. Of course no one openly disagreed with him. The
           | risk to personal reputation and even employment is too high.
           | The conversation definitely turned quiet after this, however.
           | I do think we are being led around by extremists, and I am
           | happy to eat some angry replies, downvotes, and flags to have
           | a chance to express this as well.
        
         | woodruffw wrote:
         | As someone who was planning on going to CCC for the first time
         | this year: this is very oblique, and doesn't give me the
         | context that I need to understand your grievance.
         | 
         | What _exactly_ is the problem with CCC, and what happened in
         | 2019?
         | 
         | (I didn't downvote you.)
        
           | dijit wrote:
           | If I am specific people will come to defend people or attack
           | others.
           | 
           | I'm being purposefully unspecific.
           | 
           | The message is intended to be read by the people who are
           | enforcing vague rules, making hit groups, publicly
           | humiliating others and in one case using physical force (and
           | smugly).
           | 
           | The people I'm referring to know exactly who they are, and
           | the people who surround them know who I am referring to also.
           | Which is the only people that a message such as this is meant
           | to be serving. It's not meant as a warning to anyone else.
           | 
           | I'm quite sure you will have fun at CCC it really is a blast
           | - please don't read it as a warning. It is quite likely that
           | you will feel the environment hints at what I am referring
           | to, but I doubt it will affect your enjoyment unless you
           | cross one of these people --- which is very unlikely of
           | course, but it's something I am personally very wary of.
        
             | Krasnol wrote:
             | This isn't more than a conspiracy theory than?
             | 
             | You're not ready to give substance to your accusations,
             | while simultaneously expecting us to accept your theory
             | that there is some kind of conspiracy going on against your
             | opinion and those who conspire would be those who
             | "understand" your broad and unfunded accusations. Because
             | this is the only way it wouldn't make your comment above
             | look like just another conspiracy.
             | 
             | Paradox.
        
             | 1827163 wrote:
             | And that is the essence of the "spiral of silence", because
             | everyone stays quiet about it, then the problem never gets
             | tackled by the community. It's precisely how totalitarian
             | regimes work.
             | 
             | We should all make a considerable effort to gather as much
             | evidence as possible, so it can be forwarded to law
             | enforcement for investigation? We have audio recorders,
             | covert body cameras, you name it, they are all readily
             | available and inexpensive nowadays (assuming it's legal to
             | do so, which depends on the jurisdiction).
        
               | crimsoneer wrote:
               | It's such a spiral the op can't actually describe
               | anything specific other than implying some nebulous
               | silencing scheme?
        
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       (page generated 2023-05-09 23:01 UTC)