[HN Gopher] Chaos Communication Camp 2023 - Call for Participation
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Chaos Communication Camp 2023 - Call for Participation
Author : todsacerdoti
Score : 50 points
Date : 2023-05-09 19:08 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (events.ccc.de)
(TXT) w3m dump (events.ccc.de)
| humanistbot wrote:
| I'm interested in these topics, but I don't speak German and
| absolutely hate camping. Burning Man is a big no for me because
| of the camping aspect alone. I don't want to have to step off a
| plane and figure out how to buy a bunch of camping equipment in
| another country, haul it to a rural park where it looks like
| there is only a limited bus service, and then figure out what to
| do with it before flying back. Is this event not for me? It's OK
| if not.
| Canada wrote:
| I'm with you, I prefer to stay in a nearby hotel. If you go,
| prepare to deal with shelling out a lot for taxis and figuring
| out rides with people.. it is a really fun event. I went in
| 2015, and I haven't been to anything quite like it.
| dijit wrote:
| I will say this, even if I am aware that I will be crucified for
| saying it; because we all have heroes and villains and try to
| think the world is black and white -- and we especially don't
| like to think poorly of the people who's political opinions we
| agree with.
|
| However: I have gone really sour on the CCC since 2019.
|
| I agree with a lot of the political opinions they express but the
| method in which they express them really makes me feel as if
| they're trying to bring the movement down.
|
| For example: I have been tangially related to a degree of
| bullying behaviour in the under the guise of "everyone who
| disagrees with me is a right wing troll".
|
| I might go back to the events, it's still the best computer
| conference in Europe in my opinion.
|
| I must express to them how skittish on the events I have become
| though (and this is my way of making _them_ know that, even if I
| 'm quite certain people will loudly disagree with me on the basis
| that "if you disagree with them then you are probably also a
| right wing troll"). Which, anyone who knows me will certainly
| disagree with and it's not like I'm hiding behind a throwaway. I
| will gladly take the downvotes to express this, it proves
| nothing.
| the_third_wave wrote:
| It is really sad to see how the _Code of Conduct Crew_ has
| infiltrated the Chaos Computer Club and turned the Chaos
| Communication Camp into yet another target for the thought
| police. This really stands diametrically opposed to the
| original intent of these hacker camps and, if allowed to
| continue, can be the death knell for this type of gathering of
| free minds.
|
| One of the keynote speakers for H2K was Jello Biafra, the
| frontman for the Dead Kennedys. His message of "don't criticise
| the media, _become the media_ " was well received and has in
| many ways come to fruition with the advent of "alternative"
| media ranging from individuals to well-organised groups
| publishing text, audio and video over the 'net. The message was
| clear, freedom of expression is core to the somewhat anarchist-
| leaning crowd which tends to go to these meetings. The Code of
| Conduct Crew's message seems to be "don't criticise us, _obey
| us_ ". While this is not the first time a "somewhat anarchist
| organisation" [1] gets taken over by authoritarians it would be
| a big loss if they succeeded.
|
| [1] anarchist as in "a herd of cats", not as in "people in
| trench coats throwing bombs"
| 1827163 wrote:
| Is that something to do with Geek Feminism and the imposition
| of "codes of conduct" on conference attendees? And doing so has
| politicized the events? If that is true, then it's yet another
| example of pressure groups imposing their agenda on these
| events. It started roughly in 2014. Or was there a general
| political shift which coincides with this, at the time? Anyway,
| I have stopped going to these events because of the politics,
| particularly the censorship aspect.
|
| These "codes of conduct" go against my fundamental principles
| of freedom of speech and liberty, the whole reason I got
| involved in open source in the first place. They prohibit far
| more than rude or aggressive behavior. And they are a specific
| political group's attempt to control what we can say at these
| events and on occasion, even outside them.
|
| Whatever it was, _something_ changed politically in 2014 - 2016
| timeframe or so. Maybe a major social media platform changed it
| 's policies which allowed this behavior to flourish? I'm wildly
| speculating here.
|
| Prior to that we didn't really care about anything political,
| other than civil liberties at these conferences? But there
| wasn't really this left-wing / right-wing divide back then. At
| least not from what I remember.
|
| After thinking about it for a while, yes, nobody cared if you
| were liberal or conservative before that.
|
| I'm not going to allow any chilling effect to prevent me from
| speaking up about it, and I'm taking any downvotes and flagging
| as well. It will be interesting to see what happens. It's good
| that this site doesn't delete flagged posts, it just hides them
| from view by default.
|
| That way we avoid the "spiral of silence" effect that leads to
| self-censorship. If we all did the same, then this problem,
| assuming it is valid, would not have existed in the first
| place.
| schmidtleonard wrote:
| > I'm not going to allow any chilling effect to prevent me
| from speaking up
|
| Please pick your battles.
|
| In any case, good luck.
| 1827163 wrote:
| Someone has to speak up, otherwise we will remain in the
| present situation, which sounds very dire indeed. OK,
| whatever it is, it's my first foray into it, and I hope I'm
| treading carefully enough?
| slily wrote:
| At face value, most of the codes of conduct that popped up
| recently look reasonable, but they were introduced in
| response to a movement that has replaced this simple,
| straightforward and truly inclusive idea of treating everyone
| respectfully with an obsession about labels, group
| representation and calling out any remote perceived slight
| towards protected groups.
|
| Sometimes I wonder if I would have better professional
| opportunities or job safety if I specified that I am
| homosexual on LinkedIn and behaved flamboyantly instead of
| keeping it to myself. This call for participation reinforces
| that feeling with language like "[We] especially want to
| encourage FLINTA* (Female, Lesbian, Inter, Non-Binary, Trans,
| Agender) and Queer individuals, BIPOC and humans from the
| Global South to submit their talks, workshops or Lightning
| Talks."
|
| Once, I saw a regular attendee in another conference complain
| that there are too many white males, suggesting that they
| should refrain from attending, and perhaps send a woman or a
| person who is not white to represent their company instead,
| and "threatening" to withdraw himself because he is also a
| white male. Of course no one openly disagreed with him. The
| risk to personal reputation and even employment is too high.
| The conversation definitely turned quiet after this, however.
| I do think we are being led around by extremists, and I am
| happy to eat some angry replies, downvotes, and flags to have
| a chance to express this as well.
| woodruffw wrote:
| As someone who was planning on going to CCC for the first time
| this year: this is very oblique, and doesn't give me the
| context that I need to understand your grievance.
|
| What _exactly_ is the problem with CCC, and what happened in
| 2019?
|
| (I didn't downvote you.)
| dijit wrote:
| If I am specific people will come to defend people or attack
| others.
|
| I'm being purposefully unspecific.
|
| The message is intended to be read by the people who are
| enforcing vague rules, making hit groups, publicly
| humiliating others and in one case using physical force (and
| smugly).
|
| The people I'm referring to know exactly who they are, and
| the people who surround them know who I am referring to also.
| Which is the only people that a message such as this is meant
| to be serving. It's not meant as a warning to anyone else.
|
| I'm quite sure you will have fun at CCC it really is a blast
| - please don't read it as a warning. It is quite likely that
| you will feel the environment hints at what I am referring
| to, but I doubt it will affect your enjoyment unless you
| cross one of these people --- which is very unlikely of
| course, but it's something I am personally very wary of.
| Krasnol wrote:
| This isn't more than a conspiracy theory than?
|
| You're not ready to give substance to your accusations,
| while simultaneously expecting us to accept your theory
| that there is some kind of conspiracy going on against your
| opinion and those who conspire would be those who
| "understand" your broad and unfunded accusations. Because
| this is the only way it wouldn't make your comment above
| look like just another conspiracy.
|
| Paradox.
| 1827163 wrote:
| And that is the essence of the "spiral of silence", because
| everyone stays quiet about it, then the problem never gets
| tackled by the community. It's precisely how totalitarian
| regimes work.
|
| We should all make a considerable effort to gather as much
| evidence as possible, so it can be forwarded to law
| enforcement for investigation? We have audio recorders,
| covert body cameras, you name it, they are all readily
| available and inexpensive nowadays (assuming it's legal to
| do so, which depends on the jurisdiction).
| crimsoneer wrote:
| It's such a spiral the op can't actually describe
| anything specific other than implying some nebulous
| silencing scheme?
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(page generated 2023-05-09 23:01 UTC)