[HN Gopher] Do the weirdest thing that feels right
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Do the weirdest thing that feels right
        
       Author : vitabenes
       Score  : 206 points
       Date   : 2023-05-09 15:56 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (charliebecker.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (charliebecker.substack.com)
        
       | ftxbro wrote:
       | I wish substack will just hurry up and make its medium.com or
       | quora turn so everyone will agree to ignore it and it doesn't
       | blogspam up every social media.                   "Why I don't
       | actually like greenfield projects."         "What I learned when
       | I stopped writing clickbait."         "When it's actually a good
       | idea to put all your eggs in one basket."         "When is it the
       | time to make a mountain out of a molehill?"         "What I
       | learned on my journey to stop turning the other cheek."
        
         | nuancebydefault wrote:
         | Personally I think one shouldn't judge an article based on in
         | which media it was posted first.
         | 
         | There are quite a lot good articles posted in each of the blog
         | sites you mentioned.
         | 
         | Compare it to people saying, it's sold at Walmart (just an
         | example) so it must be bad.
        
           | paulddraper wrote:
           | True, but not the strongest example...
        
           | adventured wrote:
           | I might even say Target, as Substack isn't so bad at this
           | point as to compare it to Walmart's lower-mid quality tier.
           | 
           | If you actually democratize writing/publishing/blogging (as
           | their product tries to; as many others have tried to), you're
           | not going to end up with a higher quality outcome than
           | Substack. It's practically impossible. That's what we have
           | the NY Times, Washington Post, Wired, The Economist, et al.
           | for.
        
         | bilsbie wrote:
         | Or the opposite
        
         | medstrom wrote:
         | Do you feel the same way about blogspot.com or wordpress.com?
         | If not, why not?
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | 1. Nobody really uses those dinosaurs for modern tech
           | writing.
           | 
           | 2. Neither platform is VC funded with the expectation of
           | hyper growth (which will eventually result in paywalls). One
           | of them is owned by Google (and is more likely to get
           | cancelled outright), and the other has grown naturally and
           | organically over two decades.
        
         | voytec wrote:
         | I think these are promoted on HN (Substack is an YC startup).
         | More than once there's been a substack link, older, with less
         | comments and less upvotes but placed higher on the main page
         | than newer posts with active discussions and more internet
         | points.
        
           | teej wrote:
           | It's not.
        
         | slothtrop wrote:
         | Substack has actually good writers who post content regularly.
         | Lots of people from the blogsphere migrated there.
        
           | bilsbie wrote:
           | If I start blogging should I use it or just post on long form
           | twitter now?
        
             | hammyhavoc wrote:
             | If you have to ask if you should use Twitter post-
             | acquisition when any audience you gather may not be there
             | in x time as Musk makes questionable decision after
             | questionable decision, the answer is "no". I feel like a
             | hostage to the platform in many ways as that's where my
             | biggest social audience is--not that I particularly use it
             | anyway these days.
        
               | bilsbie wrote:
               | I like the new subscriber features and longer videos.
               | Plus a long text limit.
        
               | lelanthran wrote:
               | So, you recommend that GP ignore his (in your words)
               | "biggest social audience"?
               | 
               | Do you not see the contradiction in what you wrote?
        
               | hammyhavoc wrote:
               | No, I've been on Twitter since the '00s, and have posted
               | over 100k+ tweets. It's not like you go on there and
               | suddenly become a success. It's all dependent on buying
               | ads these days.
               | 
               | A good chunk of my audience has left already, plenty
               | planning to etc. And just because there's a few tens of
               | thousands of followers doesn't meant it gets reach or
               | engagement like it used to. Seen that for most people.
        
               | alexb_ wrote:
               | >I've posted over 100,000 tweets
               | 
               | This is not the flex you think it is. If you've been on
               | for 15 years that's 18 tweets, constantly, every single
               | day. That's an absurd number.
        
               | hammyhavoc wrote:
               | Who says it's a _flex_? You 're projecting a lot here.
               | 
               | The whole point is illustrating that an audience doesn't
               | come out of nowhere and the company is now under new
               | management. History will not repeat itself, the world has
               | changed, what value I perceived in Twitter has now gone
               | because my audience there is in decline post-acquisition.
               | 
               | My investment of time is now worthless other than what I
               | took away from the platform in the long-term in terms of
               | biz and friends.
               | 
               | Back in the day, we used to use TweetDeck columns like
               | IRC channels in terms of hashtags, and new tweets on x
               | from y would appear in the relevant column. If you don't
               | know what is, imagine a group chat, but people come and
               | go. Of an evening, I could probably rattle off a couple
               | hundred tweets discussing and debating. Keep in mind the
               | original character count, and a simple response could be
               | a dozen tweets.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | It's well within reasonable limits; assuming most of your
               | karma comes from posts you've posted about 8 times a day
               | on HN. Sounds about right for a social media platform.
        
         | emsy wrote:
         | Says guy in HN comments
        
         | mock-possum wrote:
         | You can post anything there. You personally just keep happening
         | to see a particular brand of content linked off substack
         | because that's your bubble. Afterall, often do you make an
         | actual effort to find content on substack / medium that doesn't
         | fit that category?
        
         | TobyTheDog123 wrote:
         | What makes you think it'll make that turn?
         | 
         | Unless Medium is printing money from their terrible UX, I cant
         | imagine a company would want to replicate it.
        
         | irrational wrote:
         | I only started noticing substack URLs very recently. I haven't
         | even taken the time to figure out what substack is. I can't
         | figure out if I am late or if you are early in saying it has
         | already jumped the shark.
        
           | twic wrote:
           | I think what ftxbro is saying is that Medium and Quora have
           | both worthless content and a horrible user experience, and
           | people ignore them because of the horrible user experience,
           | so their worthless content does not get shared, whereas
           | Substack has worthless content but a pleasant user
           | experience, so its worthless content does get shared, and he
           | hopes that its user experience degrades, so this stops.
           | 
           | EDIT: Which is surprising; surely a fellow traveller of the
           | EA/LW crowd would understanding optimising for the maximal
           | update to your prior?
        
             | tough wrote:
             | I've been recently seeing the word enshittification to
             | describe this online phenomena.
             | 
             | I also would refer to Eternal September when we reference
             | any kind of online community
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
        
       | tikkun wrote:
       | This aligns very well with a model I personally use.
       | 
       | When I'm unsure, I complete the sentence in my head "I should do
       | _thing_ but I want to do _other_thing_"
       | 
       | If I'm still unsure, I try swapping the blanks in the sentence
       | around a few times and I see which one feels more true, which one
       | resonates more.
       | 
       | That normally helps me see which thing was something that I felt
       | like I should do, and which thing I actually want to do.
       | 
       | The separate questions here are how to learn to access more of
       | your inner intuition about what you want, and I think it mostly
       | comes from practice of seeing if you can notice and using the
       | method I mentioned above, and then seeing how you felt about the
       | result. There's also a separate question about how to make sure
       | your intuition is well informed, which I think comes from a
       | combination of: trying a lot of things in life so you have many
       | data points, being well rested and generally treating your body
       | well (good food, some exercise), and being mentally healthy
       | (calm, composed, peaceful).
       | 
       | Our sense of what feels right is kind of like what our
       | subconscious mind thinks would be best for us. And our
       | subconscious mind is exceptionally powerful, it's fantastic at
       | making predictions about short term emotional outcomes, it's seen
       | everything that's ever happened to us and how it turned out, and
       | so on. It'll serve you well to have a better relationship to your
       | subconscious and vice versa!
       | 
       | Some side notes that I could expand on:
       | 
       | * "You" are not you, I think we are mostly our subconscious but
       | our thoughts and words are the tool it uses to communicate and
       | interact with the world, and to plan
       | 
       | * Subconscious mind : conscious mind :: Pre-training : RLHF
       | 
       | * The conscious mind, the part of us that has thoughts, is more
       | like a limb, or a sense. It's more of a tool to interact with the
       | world, and to receive input from the world, and the actual 'us'
       | is something deeper, it's the part that has the 'wants'
       | 
       | * RLHF messes with the ability for GPT-4 to be well calibrated. I
       | suspect that's because of the "should" vs "want" / perception of
       | other people's perceptions introduced during RLHF.
       | 
       | * I wonder if psychedelics help access the subconscious mind /
       | "base model without RLHF" and I wonder if this is why certain
       | similar patterns seem to be noticed across different people who
       | do psychedelics - because they're accessing the things that their
       | subconscious mind has concluded, and many people's subconscious
       | minds reach similar conclusions because we're using similar data.
       | 
       | * A person who reads a ton of books is kind of like doing a "pre-
       | training" phase.
       | 
       | * Aligning a language model can borrow lots of methods from
       | effective parenting (by effective, I mean where both the child
       | and the parent end up happy), clicker training of animals, and
       | effective delegation and management of employees.
       | 
       | * Good advice is advice that helps people "want something they
       | feel like they should do but don't currently want to do" or
       | something that helps people "feel like they should do something
       | that they already want to do but feel like they shouldn't do"
       | 
       | * If you follow your "shoulds" you end up living surrounded by
       | things you felt like you should do
       | 
       | * Giving advice to other people is often your subconscious mind
       | telling you what it wishes you would do (and so whatever you say
       | to the other person is really either something you feel like you
       | should do, or something you feel like you want to do)
        
         | ycombinete wrote:
         | _"I should move back to South Africa, but I want to move to
         | Europe."_
         | 
         | No, doesn't sound quite right...
         | 
         |  _"I should move to Europe, but I want to move back to South
         | Africa."_
         | 
         | There it is
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | sph wrote:
       | > "Do the weirdest thing that feels right."
       | 
       | I prefer another version of the same idea: _" If it's worth
       | doing, it's worth doing badly."_
       | 
       | Cuts through any perfectionism, analysis paralysis and
       | overthinking. Go be shit at whatever you love. It'll feel better
       | than trying your best at something you don't really believe in.
        
       | robocat wrote:
       | I think the phrase "Do the weirdest thing that feels right" just
       | doesn't catch the meaning they're trying to explain[2].
       | 
       | I thought of a couple of alternatives, but can you think of a
       | sentence that captures the sense better, or a metaphor[1], or an
       | existing concept (perhaps in another language)?
       | 
       | [1] e.g. the road less travelled - although that particular
       | phrase has always bothered me because it doesn't imply roaming
       | over fields or bush bashing through jungles, but instead just
       | following the routes of others which is kind of self-defeating. A
       | road is definitely not what I am looking for here (alternatively,
       | some metaphorical popular roads are fabulous).
       | 
       | [2] a good blogpost on a personal discovery is hard to write -
       | how do you reproduce that epiphany in someone else through
       | writing? Couple of good topics there for a blogpost!
       | 
       | (Edited for clarity)
        
         | vaidhy wrote:
         | Almost everyone misunderstands "the road less travelled" poem.
         | The point is not to take the less travelled road, but it is
         | that it does not matter. Irrespective of the road taken, the
         | poet says he would be just connecting the dots in hindsight.
         | 
         | Here is a nice image that expounds on the same idea -
         | https://www.zenpencils.com/comic/60-robert-frost-the-road-no...
        
           | astrobe_ wrote:
           | Perhaps "off the beaten path" is more appropriate, although
           | it has apparently (non native speaker) both the meaning of
           | "less traveled" or "atypical".
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | el_don_almighty wrote:
           | Thank you for such a compelling link. It was a wonderful
           | interlude to my day and confirmed your thought.
           | 
           | In my mid 50s now and I find no solace in reconsidering past
           | decisions. I awake to a new world every day, thankful for the
           | fond memories, blessed that today holds new opportunities for
           | a future I cannot imagine.
        
           | robocat wrote:
           | Phrases take on their own memetic life and often, in popular
           | usage, do not carry the original meaning. Choosing a good
           | phrase matters to help keep the core idea alive.
           | 
           | Beautiful comic (with bonus nearly-localised references!)
           | Definitely shows two very popular life choices in New
           | Zealand.
        
         | lief79 wrote:
         | Ah yes, the false dichotomy of the road less travelled.
         | 
         | Fairly sure one of my friends in high school had an essay
         | trashed for taking that stance. Then again, he was a minimalist
         | with anything homework related, so it could have been justified
         | for other reasons.
        
       | uptownfunk wrote:
       | If you're not being strongly compelled from within by an idea,
       | then I wouldn't pursue it. I don't think it has to be weird
       | necessarily.
       | 
       | I've been working on a side project and there are so many little
       | problems that creep up that it really feels like you're running
       | an ultramarathon or climbing Everest.
       | 
       | If you don't have that very strong and deep calling from within I
       | don't think many will make it through that, and so you'll just
       | end up burning a lot of mental/physical/emotional energy on
       | something that doesn't pan out.
        
       | ricardo81 wrote:
       | Just a side comment to the article, it's great to see so many
       | substacks referenced on HN. It reminds me of the geocities of the
       | 90s, people free to post into the world as they please. Hopefully
       | the substack pricing model doesn't change to affect the input.
        
       | SeanAnderson wrote:
       | Well, now I feel a little better about having quit my job to work
       | on creating "digital ant farm meets mental health app", hah.
       | 
       | That said, I have mixed feelings about the article. On the one
       | hand, yes, there are very few, if any, objectively correct
       | answers on how to live life and so pursuing your own, unique
       | truth is empowering. On the other, humans are notoriously poor at
       | accurately weighting long-term vs short-term benefits. Plenty of
       | things feel right in the moment, YOLO and all that, but dwindle
       | as more information becomes available and doors close.
       | 
       | Maybe I'm just projecting my own insecurities onto what I see
       | others doing, though? As an example, a friend of mine was
       | recently laid off. We both live in SF and they work in Customer
       | Satisfaction for tech companies. They had recently switched jobs
       | and, when they were laid off, they received four months of
       | severance after having only worked for their employer for two
       | months. They felt like they had just received a gift, didn't care
       | about the macro-economic environment, and decided it was time to
       | travel to Costa Rica and participate in an Ayahuasca retreat.
       | They were so moved by their experiences that they skipped their
       | original flight home and extended their stay in paradise a week.
       | As they shared their story with me and my friends, I felt uneasy
       | for them and their situation. They seemed intentionally oblivious
       | to the changing labor landscape and I became worried for their
       | financial well-being, but, to them, the decisions all felt right,
       | the layoff was a blessing, and jobs always work out - right?
       | 
       | Who knows! Everyone has to live their truth and it's entirely
       | possible their view plays out well and I'm just a worrywart, but,
       | from my perspective, they were overvaluing the pursuit of doing
       | weird things that feel right. Similarly, I'm sure plenty of my
       | friends find my actions to be reckless. Quitting a job without
       | another lined up is something society speaks openly against.
       | 
       | It will always be tough to make objective counter-arguments
       | against living one's truth since luck plays a non-trivial role in
       | all of our lives.
        
         | paulddraper wrote:
         | Some company hands out 4 month severance package to 2 month
         | employees?
         | 
         | A gift indeed.
        
         | randomopining wrote:
         | People who are conservative like you probably overestimate how
         | much money they need to have saved. Plus how much less life can
         | cost if you're single without a family to provide for.
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | As an example of this...
           | 
           | During the pandemic, I took almost a year off from work of
           | any sort. I had eliminated all of the expenses I had that I
           | wasn't deriving real value from, and estimated how much I'd
           | need to have in the bank to afford the time of no income.
           | Then I saved up that amount.
           | 
           | At the end, I'd overestimated by about 4x and learned a great
           | lesson about how much money I actually need to live in the
           | manner that I prefer.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Heh, my calculations are always under, because I go
             | "mortgage + utilities + let's say $5 for ramen a day" and
             | miss a bunch of things.
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | I did my estimations by reviewing my bank statements for
               | the prior year. I was afraid of missing things, so wanted
               | some actual historical data. Then I added an extra safety
               | margin. I didn't want to have to break into my real
               | savings!
               | 
               | If I had spent a few months really tracking my spending
               | at a granular level, I think my estimate would have been
               | much closer to correct.
        
         | munificent wrote:
         | Because of my past, I carry around a big pile of financial
         | anxiety. The past few years of political and economic tumult
         | have been _really_ difficult for that even though thankfully I
         | 'm currently in a great economic position. But, paradoxically,
         | the better I am financially, the more stressed I feel because I
         | just have more to lose. Anxiety is a bitch.
         | 
         | Either way, my impression of the article is that by "weird",
         | the author doesn't mean "risky" or "impulsive" like you're
         | inferring. I interpreted it to mean more along the lines of
         | "wouldn't be appealing or resonating to many other folks."
         | Something that appeals strongly to your own particular quirks
         | and felicities.
         | 
         | Lots of people would want to take a few weeks in Costa Rica if
         | they got laid off. And after Pollan's "How to Change Your Mind"
         | there are a hell of a lot of people taking psychedelic trips.
         | That's not particularly weird.
         | 
         | Weird would be more like getting laid off and deciding to make
         | a go at becoming a full time poet.
        
           | mxuribe wrote:
           | > ...paradoxically, the better I am financially, the more
           | stressed I feel because I just have more to lose. Anxiety is
           | a bitch...
           | 
           | Sorry about your anxiety. But, thanks at least for helping
           | remind me (and likely others) that we who feel similarly are
           | not alone!
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | > my impression of the article is that by "weird", the author
           | doesn't mean "risky" or "impulsive" like you're inferring.
           | 
           | I agree. I think the author was pretty forthcoming about what
           | he meant: he meant that we often write off possible things we
           | want to do on the basis that they're "weird" -- in the sense
           | that we think others will reject those things.
           | 
           | But doing that is a trap and we shouldn't avoid options
           | purely based on what we think others will think about them.
        
         | jonahrd wrote:
         | From what you wrote, it sounds like they are already back,
         | still in their severance window, and took maybe a 2-3 week
         | trip?
         | 
         | This sounds like a very reasonable thing to do when you receive
         | a 4 month severance package. There's still time to look for
         | work. I assume your friend who works in tech also has some
         | amount of savings.
         | 
         | Life isn't a single track of work that you mustn't ever get off
         | or you will utterly fail. There's room for some amount of
         | leeway in moments like these.
        
           | SeanAnderson wrote:
           | Yup, you are correct on all accounts and I do agree. It's
           | just me projecting my insecurities onto them. I had a parent
           | die uninsured when I was 21 and my other parent fell into a
           | deep depression and became financially dependent on me. It's
           | only recently that I was able to get them onto Social
           | Security. My worldview has been one of "If I stop working my
           | loved ones will struggle." in a way I didn't exactly sign-up
           | for as I would a planned child or marriage. So, I sort of
           | implicitly assume everyone needs to be preparing for the
           | worst financial outcomes possible.
           | 
           | Quitting my job to pursue a creative project is basically a
           | direct response to having come into some money and having
           | reduced my dependents. It's a nice place to be, but is also
           | quite a foreign mindset to try and embody. Hopefully it feels
           | more natural in time. :)
        
             | djsavvy wrote:
             | Best of luck with your creative journey!
             | 
             | What are you working on?
        
               | SeanAnderson wrote:
               | Thank you, I appreciate it. The elevator pitch is:
               | 
               | Symbiant is a real-time, sci-fi ant colony simulation for
               | modern browsers. It draws inspiration from RimWorld,
               | SimAnt, Progress Quest, and Tamagotchi. You awaken to
               | find your consciousness trapped inside a satellite's
               | computer, sharing space with a damaged AI bent on
               | terraforming an alien world that you both now orbit.
               | Withered from eons of isolation, a chance encounter with
               | an ant colony provides you with hope, companionship, a
               | distraction, and, potentially, a way to help the AI
               | complete their directive.
               | 
               | Symbiant is a digital aquarium. Slow, calm, and a 24/7
               | source of simple entertainment. A respite primarily meant
               | for observation and reflection, you briefly command the
               | satellite just once per day and must use this time to
               | make prescient decisions which ensure your ants thrive
               | until your next check-in. The rest of your day is spent
               | simply observing the side-effects of your actions and
               | taking notes for tomorrow.
               | 
               | Symbiant is tactful mental health software. Its goal is
               | to help you be more consistent in your personal growth
               | and more aware of your mental health. Over the course of
               | real-world months, you help the protagonist grow their
               | pet ants, themselves, and yourself. A quick routine
               | involving breathwork, meditation, and self-reflective
               | journaling is gently woven into your daily self-care
               | habits all while the software masquerades as a colony
               | sim.
        
               | southwesterly wrote:
               | That sounds excellent. Best of luck with that. Do you
               | have a website?
        
               | SeanAnderson wrote:
               | Not yet. There's a discord link in my bio to follow along
               | for now and I will share my prototypes with the HN
               | community for feedback as it progresses. It's written in
               | Rust so, you know, it's basically required to hype it up
               | on HN. :)
        
         | kaba0 wrote:
         | This recent HN comment on another thread seems very on-point
         | here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35870453
        
       | Octokiddie wrote:
       | To recap:
       | 
       | - "weirdness" means what others will think is weird
       | 
       | - many options feel right
       | 
       | Therefore, following the advice in the title leads to the
       | selection of the path that works personally, and which is most
       | likely to be true to one's inner compass.
       | 
       | But I do wonder about the "feels right" part. The thing that
       | feels right often only does so in hindsight. In the moment, it
       | may feel very, very wrong.
       | 
       | This reminds me of something a speaker at a corporate
       | "Innovation" symposium during a summer internship once said many
       | years ago. There was talk after talk about how you have to "take
       | risk" and "push the envelope" and "think outside the box."
       | 
       | Then this guy stands up and gives the best heuristic I've ever
       | heard for identifying innovation in your actions. He said You'll
       | know you're innovating because you'll feel deeply uncomfortable.
       | 
       | Nothing makes you stand out like actually innovating. Nothing
       | makes you hated more than actually innovating. Nothing raises the
       | stakes of what you're doing like actually innovating. And
       | usually, nothing feels more wrong than actually innovating.
        
         | elliotec wrote:
         | I don't think "feels right" and "uncomfortable" should be
         | conflated, though. Many things feel right and uncomfortable at
         | the same time. Think of break ups, moving locations or jobs,
         | having children, and to your point, innovating.
        
       | fidrelity wrote:
       | Isn't what the author describes simply a mental model to amplify
       | an egocentric worldview?
       | 
       | Most people are about average and those 'alright, not weird'
       | decisions are on average the best decision not just for the
       | individual but also for society. That's why they're not weird.
        
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