[HN Gopher] Vitamin K2 supplements fail to slow calcium buildup ...
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Vitamin K2 supplements fail to slow calcium buildup in heart
Author : simmerup
Score : 30 points
Date : 2023-05-08 21:11 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.heart.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.heart.org)
| bitL wrote:
| That's sad, I was hoping to soften the impact by taking K2
| supplements now before I get old. What else beside K2 would you
| recommend for a healthy cardiovascular system?
|
| - Diosmin:Hesperidin 9:1?
|
| - Rutin?
|
| - Arginine?
|
| - Curcumin?
|
| - Ginkgo?
|
| - Nattokinase?
|
| - Serrapeptase?
|
| - Lumbrokinase?
|
| - Omega 3?
|
| - Pycnogenol/OPC?
|
| - Hawthorn berry?
|
| - Kyolic?
| candiddevmike wrote:
| I almost started taking natto/serra supplements but there's too
| many reports of it causing bleeding. Seems like natto as a food
| (fermented soy) is better, but I can't source it locally.
| bitL wrote:
| Yeah, I have heard of that. But natto is supposed to be rich
| in K2, some K2 supplements are made out of natto.
| lr4444lr wrote:
| Cardiovascular exercise at various intensities, done almost
| every day, and high quality sleep.
|
| Supplement and nutrition research as a disease prophylactic
| (aside from avoiding the usual suspects) is nowhere near as
| solid what we know about exercise and rest.
| bitL wrote:
| OK, good point. Assuming 60 minutes of on average moderate
| cardio a day, which supplements would you recommend?
| tharkun__ wrote:
| I would supplement with swiss chard. Really good as the
| "green" in bacon and scrambled eggs but if kale or collard
| greens are more your thing I would supplement that to your
| favorite dish instead.
| lr4444lr wrote:
| I don't think you'll go wrong with omega3. I take it, it
| seems to have a low adverse risk profile.
| kypro wrote:
| Before you randomly start popping supplements the first thing
| you should be doing if you care about maintaining a healthy
| cardiovascular system is getting regular blood tests, ideally
| at least one a year.
|
| Not managing high triglycerides or high LDL cholesterol will
| put you at a much higher risk than not taking any specific
| supplement. Some people are genetically prone to heart disease
| in which case monitoring your cholesterol and taking
| pharmaceuticals to manage it (if needed) can significantly
| reduce your risk.
|
| The other thing you should do before you start popping
| supplements is get your diet right. Reducing sugar, eating less
| processed foods, consuming healthy fats (especially EPA), and
| intermittent fasting - these will all help dramatically more
| than taking any supplement.
|
| Then there is exercise. Doing a 20-30 mins of high intensity
| exercise a few days a week will help reduce your resting heart
| rate, improve your metabolism and help maintain a healthy
| cardiovascular system.
|
| The only supplement I think there is currently good evidence to
| take for heart health is high dose EPA, but it's pretty
| expensive... I use Pharmepa Restore personally which I take due
| to a family history of heart disease. High quality fish oil
| supplements with DHA and EPA probably have a minor benefit,
| while cheap fish oil supplements are probably mostly useless
| for several reasons. If you're going to take fish oil for heart
| health take one that's pharma-grade and high in EPA.
| gleenn wrote:
| Capsaicin is supposed to be good as per a news article I can't
| seem to find but agree with sibling comment that exercise and
| sleep as well as low cholesterol diet are all good.
|
| (Edited phrasing)
| jodrellblank wrote:
| I don't recommend it per se, but Dr William Davies' HeartScan
| blog makes the testable claim that there is a cheap noninvasive
| scan which gives a good proxy measure of calcium buildup in the
| heart, and that using it he has interventions which measurably
| reduce such buildup, and they overlap with common alternate
| diets like reduced wheat, carbs, I forget what else.
|
| I'm not claiming this is right, but if it is both testable and
| measurable and not just unsupported claims, it seems it should
| get more attention. He's also a cardiologist not an internet
| tree doctor. I don't know if he's a quack.
| Alex3917 wrote:
| If you do the 8 things the CDC says to do, you're already in
| the top 1% of the US population for cardiovascular health. Just
| doing those things is going to be a lot more effective than
| taking any supplements.
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| Calcium is critical to start the chemical cascade of the clotting
| process.
|
| Vitamin K also helps you clot.
|
| I can't fathom what the line of thinking is here.
| bitL wrote:
| K2 was supposed to help endothelium as well and was known for
| enabling calcium to move from blood to bones.
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| Magnesium seems like a better guess and seems to not have
| been studied for aortic stenosis though it does help with
| vascular calcification.
|
| https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/ATVBAHA.117.309182
|
| Especially since heart murmur is a symptom of aortic stenosis
| and magnesium is critical to regulation of the heartbeat.
|
| https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/aortic-
| stenos...
|
| https://health.clevelandclinic.org/magnesium-for-heart-
| palpi...
| bitL wrote:
| Which magnesium type? Oxide, glycinate, threonate...?
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| My recollection is citrate and glycinate are
| bioavailable.
| gedy wrote:
| I was taking reasonable amounts of Magnesium (SlowMag)
| daily, however it seemed to trigger muscle twitches and
| fasculations after a while. YMMV
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| I don't know what you mean by _reasonable amounts daily._
| biggoodwolf wrote:
| Meh, one of its cofactors is magnesium, unless they controlled
| for that, this is meaningless.
| lr4444lr wrote:
| vitamins tested, both at baseline and at intervention, or just
| give the subjects the pills and image the arteries? I'm guessing
| the latter, as is almost always done. And we call this
| "science"....
| comicjk wrote:
| If the proposed intervention is giving a pill, it seems fair to
| test that instead of a proxy. The study had hundreds of people;
| if the effect were big enough to be clinically significant they
| hopefully would have detected it, even with some patients
| failing to take the pills.
| lr4444lr wrote:
| I'm talking about assaying the subjects' blood for prior and
| subsequent levels of the vitamin under test. Inasmuch as we
| have no way to tell whether they took the pills, we don't
| know whether the groups were properly randomized for their
| pre-intervention levels, diets, or effectiveness at
| metabolizing the supplement. It may even be the case that
| people with high CAC scores in the first place (the test
| population) already suffers from one or more of these
| problems across the board.
|
| It isn't that hard to test people's blood, and yet the
| researchers prefer us to take it on faith that their sorting
| of control and intervention groups ironed all of this out? If
| I sound unreasonable, I don't apologize for it: public health
| decisions are important.
| [deleted]
| moremetadata wrote:
| [dead]
| ekianjo wrote:
| > But Diederichsen said most foods contain insufficient levels of
| vitamin K2 to make an impact on heart health - with one
| exception. Natto, a traditional Japanese food made from fermented
| soybeans, is high in vitamin K2.
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