[HN Gopher] Let slime moulds do the thinking (2010)
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Let slime moulds do the thinking (2010)
Author : no_kill_i
Score : 24 points
Date : 2023-05-08 05:28 UTC (17 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| marymkearney wrote:
| Slime molds are also incredibly beautiful and diverse. There's a
| photographer whose specialty is gorgeous macro shots of slime
| molds. https://mymodernmet.com/barry-webb-slime-mold/
| ta20211004_1 wrote:
| I find the "super computer slime" stories that pop up every once
| and a while (including in academic contexts, occasionally),
| pretty annoying.
|
| Usually they have fun examples of problems these things can
| solve, but we don't actually think they're doing something
| fundamentally different from a greedy algorithm or trial and
| error optimization? And they're slow as slow can be. So, not that
| exciting?
| johnnyjeans wrote:
| They're primarily exciting because they exist at a fringe of
| research and challenge prevailing biological dogma that
| specialized organs (specifically the animal kingdom's
| specialized organs, the nerves) are required for complex
| behaviors and intelligence. They are an extremely important
| research area for philosophy of mind and their study has only
| provided more and deeper mysteries.
|
| Slime molds aren't ready-made solutions to practical problems.
| They're a signposted paradigm shift that indicates we need to
| re-evaluate some of our a prioris. Alongside advances in
| understanding complex behaviors in plants, slime molds
| represent one of the largest challenges to long-standing
| assumptions we've had for millenia. Unfortunately the response
| to recorded behaviors of adaptation, memory, learning, problem
| solving in things without neural structures has hilariously
| been to shift goal posts and underline said neural structures
| as a prerequisite to these things being meaningful. Silly
| things like "super computer slime" and pop science articles
| drown out the incredibly important experimental observations
| made about these beautiful organisms, this much I agree with.
| ta20211004_1 wrote:
| Thanks for your perspective and insights. I'll take a more
| charitable view on this topic in the future. :)
| revolvingocelot wrote:
| Try this lens: dragonflies are one of nature's most incredible
| predators, with a 90-97% success rate of hunts. The precise
| data varies, but almost all more complex animals have a
| dramatically lower success rate. Well, so what? Harbour
| porpoises have a ~90% success rate, too.
|
| It's interesting because dragonflies only have about 10,000
| neurons, whereas harbour porpoises have like 14 and a half
| billion. Slime molds aren't meaningfully intelligent at all,
| but they can work out problems our primate brains had to work
| quite a long time to systematize. This suggests, to me at
| least, that dragonflies and slime molds are worthy of further
| consideration.
|
| ...that said, I try not to read the popsci articles about
| either.
| tobr wrote:
| Those are some interesting numbers, but I don't understand
| the connection. Slime molds are exciting because dragonflies
| are better hunters than porpoises despite having a
| millionfold fewer neurons?
| digging wrote:
| Both slime molds and dragonflies are amazing because they
| flaunt much of what we know/believe about intelligence.
|
| Neurons are obviously excellent at handling and developing
| "intelligent" behavior, but it turns out they're not as
| necessary as we thought and there may be extreme efficiency
| gains possible (for specialized problems) over what
| traditional neural architecture indicates.
| throwawaymaths wrote:
| It's of the same vibe as "electricity solves a maze" or "water
| solves a maze", imo
| johnnyjeans wrote:
| No, it's not even remotely comparable. Neither electricity
| nor water changes propagation rules in response to stimuli
| and pre-emptively employs techniques to adapt to changing
| conditions.
| throwawaymaths wrote:
| Water's propagation rules for solving a maze are in fact
| dynamic and _definitely_ not what you might expect. I bet
| if you wrote a sim for it you would get it wrong on your
| first shot.
| cornhole34 wrote:
| There are works using slime mold as logic gates. But i do not
| think any work has gotten past that to make a full on computer.
|
| https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140327100335.h...
|
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S136970211...
|
| edit: it is also used as a sensor:
|
| https://techxplore.com/news/2022-12-scientists-smartwatch-po...
| driggs wrote:
| Highly recommend the documentary "The Creeping Garden" for an
| insightful look at slime moulds and intelligence:
|
| http://www.creepinggarden.com
| m463 wrote:
| (slightly related) I've heard Fantastic Fungi is supposed to be
| good
| fnordpiglet wrote:
| I for one welcome our new physarum polycephalum overlords.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| When you're tasting yoghurt, it's tasting you.
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