[HN Gopher] The New York hotel destination fee scam (2020)
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The New York hotel destination fee scam (2020)
Author : walterbell
Score : 31 points
Date : 2023-05-06 03:52 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.travelforaliving.co.uk)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.travelforaliving.co.uk)
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| Resort fees are still everywhere. You gotta pay for that pool
| access and two water bottles per day!
|
| At least Marriott will start displaying them in the booking
| process: https://onemileatatime.com/news/marriott-display-rates-
| trans...
| eli wrote:
| It took a lawsuit though. The FTC should just mandate the fees
| be shown up front.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| We have a weird legal system where Marriott gets sued for
| something being done by many hotels and the outcome is that
| only Marriott has to be transparent about this. It's tough to
| even call this the bare minimum to help consumers who have
| such little power in this situation.
|
| I'm glad bills for the Junk Fees Prevention Act, which would
| address this, were introduced in March/April, but they
| haven't had any movement since. It's sad when stuff like
| this, which would appeal to any American that doesn't own a
| hotel can't get passed probably because people who do own
| hotels just have that much more political power...
|
| https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/916
|
| https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2463
| eli wrote:
| Biden called for the legislation in his State of the Union
| speech, so of course Republicans feel obligated to obstruct
| it.
| avidiax wrote:
| This practice is more generally known as "drip pricing"[1], and
| it is definitely a dark pattern.
|
| My feeling is that the travel search engines should define a
| standard for a certain category of travel, and then show the
| price that achieves that standard. That this hasn't happened
| shows a sort of industry capture or lack of competition, IMO.
|
| If a hotel is said to be 4-stars, then amenities like WiFi, gym,
| and pool access should be included in the rate. If they have a
| resort fee, that should be included on the search engine.
|
| For airfare, economy class should have a reserved seat, printed
| ticket, with X inches of legroom, Y inches of width, 1 standard
| carry-on, 1 check-in bag, a soft drink and crunchy snack of your
| choice for short flights, and a meal at 4+ hours. Whatever price
| that ends up being is what is shown on the search engine. If it
| requires "economy plus" to achieve that level of service, then
| that's what you get if you search for "economy" class fares.
|
| Let the search engine have a "steerage" search class for the
| 2-star hotel experience at a 4-star hotel, and the "water costs
| extra" economy airlines.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drip_pricing
| CaptainZapp wrote:
| I'm not opposed to unbundling for flight tickets. If you don't
| have checked luggage or don't need to eat, why pay for it?
|
| What riles me up is when airlines intentionally provide a
| shitty experience when you're not willing to pay the higher
| price. To me, as a status flyer this is s form of blackmail and
| I'm not willing to play.
|
| Their error of thinking (looking at you, Lufthansa Group, but
| others likely pull the exact same shit) is that I don't only
| buy cheap flights, but will sometimes splurge for a business
| ticket in long distance.
|
| Just this February my business went to the Omanis (which also
| offer the better product).
|
| Being treated like shit on short distance flights was not the
| only reason, but certainly a factor.
| throwaway22032 wrote:
| The problem is that eventually it becomes ridiculous to the
| extent that the process feels, well, just mean.
|
| For example, budget flights in Europe have no cabin baggage
| included other than a very small bag. There's enough space in
| the cabin, and logically the cost of adding another 10kg to
| each person can't be more than 10-15% of the ticket, but it's
| way more than that to add a normal sized bag.
| jmyeet wrote:
| I didn't know this existed in NYC. It's well known in Vegas
| (which the article mentions) where it's called a "resort fee".
| It's paid at check out and is mandatory. And yes, it's to have a
| lower sticker price for rooms.
|
| Airlines do it too. There are "fuel surcharges" and other fees
| that aren't really fees. It's just a way to make the ticket
| appear cheaper.
|
| Uber got in trouble some years ago by adding a "safety fee" to
| their fares. What did this buy? Absolutely nothing. They just
| pocketed it.
|
| And of course concerts are a big one for added on fees that may
| well double the price (or more).
|
| And let's not get started on AirBnB and their "cleaning fees".
|
| I hate this crap. The only price you should be able to quote is
| the all-inclusive price. And mandatory fees should be part of
| that price. It should be illegal (ie false advertising) to do
| otherwise. It just goes to show how feckless the FTC is.
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| A few months ago President Biden announced his war on "junk
| fees" which should include this, but it appears the
| administration has ADHD and quickly forgot about it.
| FireBeyond wrote:
| > by adding a "safety fee"
|
| Hell, a lot of these companies (even ISPs) tried to avoid the
| bad blood around things like this by actually listing them as
| taxes, until they were told they could not call anything a
| 'tax' that wasn't actually required by and paid to a government
| entity.
| rottencupcakes wrote:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20230506035236/http://www.travel...
| version_five wrote:
| I was charged an "urban fee" by a business hotel (a Fairmont
| property) that I used to stay at regularly, because I once had to
| book it though a discounter because of a company's travel policy.
|
| I used to be an elite member at their hotels and they've now lost
| all my business for it, which obviously isn't important to them
| because they didn't even respond to the email I sent them
| complaining. They must be making enough scamming people this way
| that they don't care.
|
| Personally I'm not very price sensitive, I'm happy to pay to get
| my preference. But I'm very sensitive to getting ripped off. If
| someone wants to charge me a certain price, they better bake it
| into the up front cost. If they lie to me and make me pay more
| later, it's literally theft and I'm not giving business to
| criminals, like Fairmont.
|
| All that said, the airline industry used to have a much bigger
| problem with lying about the up front price and then adding in a
| bunch of extra fees when you pay. But ~20 years ago now I think
| there was some legislation, at least where I am, that required
| them to advertise the real price. The same should apply to
| hotels.
| tristor wrote:
| I've always hated the resort fees. They're an absolute scam.
| Hotels went from having free WiFi anyway, to having free WiFi and
| charging a "resort fee" for covering the amenity of free WiFi.
| Food and beverage credits are basically never worth it. At least
| you had something for loyalty in the past, HHonors Diamond would
| get you free breakfast at any Hilton property globally. No more,
| you get $10-$18/day in F&B credit, when it typically costs
| $35-60/day for breakfast. To add insult to injury, the locations
| you most likely will encounter resort fee scams are also
| locations that tax the ever-loving shit out of you. Nothing galls
| me more than visiting San Francisco and having to pay extra taxes
| on top of the normal already high taxes in California/SF because
| I'm city-center. Yep, definitely worth the extra money as I dodge
| mentally ill people, needles, and human feces to walk from my
| hotel past a luxury boutique to get a burger for dinner at a
| corner diner where it's only $25 for a simple burger instead of
| the $45 the hotel charges.
|
| I've traveled a lot, I've never once got my money's worth out of
| a resort fee. At least in Las Vegas there's a way to decline it,
| but they just won't let you connect to the WiFi from the room. If
| you're in Vegas for anything other than a business trip, you're
| probably not going to be spending much time on WiFi anyway, and I
| have unlimited 5G data on my mobile phone + tethering. It's
| absolutely a scam, and it's ridiculous you get taxed on paying
| bullshit fees, it's just a way for the government to scam you too
| at the same time they give businesses a pass for scamming you
| with bullshit fees.
| cameldrv wrote:
| To me it's not about getting "your money's worth." If they want
| to charge extra for the pool or a couple of bottles of water,
| fine, as long as it's optional. These are always mandatory fees
| though. If I have to pay it, it should be included in the
| displayed price, and there shouldn't be any surprises at
| checkin.
| pxx wrote:
| Wait what? Afaik there's no way to decline a Vegas resort fee
| without being a member of the relevant casino rewards program
| in the requisite status tier.
| tristor wrote:
| Yes, you can decline them. I do this every single time at
| check-in if I'm not on a business trip. If you decline them,
| then you won't be able to use WiFi since you have to connect
| with your last name and room number through the captive
| portal at most properties. This may be property specific, I
| usually stay at MGM properties. If I'm on a business trip I
| don't care because it's not coming out of my pocket, and I
| usually can't choose the hotel I am staying at unilaterally.
|
| The resort fee basically covers access to specific amenities
| (theoretically), if you decline it you will be giving up
| access to those amenities, that are otherwise not "free".
| YMMV.
| pxx wrote:
| No you can't and I can't find a single report that doesn't
| confirm.
|
| https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g45963-i10-k8695916-I
| s...
|
| Specific policy: https://www.mgmresorts.com/en/mgm-
| rewards/daily-resort-fee-w...
|
| A lawsuit that specifics names them as mandatory:
| https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/mgm-
| re...
|
| When was the last time this supposedly worked? These are
| posts from seven years ago...
| tristor wrote:
| It's been awhile, I go to Vegas so much for work the last
| few years (pandemic not-withstanding) that I haven't done
| a personal trip in awhile. I have one planned this year
| though in September, so if I remember I'll report back
| how it goes then, because I absolutely plan to reject the
| resort fees.
| CaptainZapp wrote:
| It seems, though, that those fees are really an American
| problem.
|
| I've never encountered crap like this in Europe or Asia.
|
| The worst I encountered, in Penang, was that VAT was not
| included and charged extra.
|
| City tax may also be charged seperately, but we're talking 2-5
| Euro per person / night. Shit, like charging an additional 50$
| per night for nothing, just because they can just doesn't
| happen.
| jamesdhutton wrote:
| I have had the experience myself of getting an unexpected and
| mandatory "resort fee" added to my nightly rate in NYC, and I
| agree it's a scam. I read somewhere that the practice came about
| as a result of price comparison websites. It gives hotels a way
| to appear near the top of the list when you sort by price, by
| displaying a bogus price that excludes the resort fee. They bury
| the resort fee in the small print. This is exactly how I got
| suckered. I think it reflects poorly on the price comparison
| sites as well as the hotels.
| yadaeno wrote:
| When I stayed in New York, I was asked to pay a $95 a night
| "cleaning fee" after I paid for the room in advance. Definitely
| avoid "yotel" if you can.
| ghaff wrote:
| ??? I regularly stay at a Yotel in Manhattan and have never
| encountered that. It's recent if it's the case.
| zachruss92 wrote:
| I am pretty sure this is a way for hotels to appear competitive
| on deal websites/apps. When I use like HotelTonight the "Resort
| Fee" is not included in their price. It's definitely a dark
| pattern and I wish they were just up front about it and allow
| consumers to make informed decisions.
| johnwalkr wrote:
| Using VPN to access European versions of booking sites will
| usually let you see listings with all fees included as required
| by law, although a shady hotel in New York can probably get
| away with adding a totally hidden fee for a while.
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