[HN Gopher] The Language of Democracy
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The Language of Democracy
Author : samclemens
Score : 18 points
Date : 2023-05-06 14:56 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.dissentmagazine.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.dissentmagazine.org)
| johnea wrote:
| I very much agree with a lot of the conclusions. But the
| descriptions of experience, such as education just serving
| individual students whims, as opposed to providing rigorous
| knowledge of topics, I find completely counter to my personal
| experience.
|
| I went to university during the era or the writings, early 1980s.
| My course work in electrical engineering was very techincally
| rigorous. i got no credit for "radio programs", or anything like
| that.
|
| Even the few humanities electives I was reequired to take (I
| chose "History of Eastern Religions", "Survey of Art History",
| among others) where difficult courses requireing ressearch and
| informed writing.
|
| I consider myself very left aligned politically, but I do agree
| on the distruction currently being caused by DEI policies.
|
| The modern idea that one primarily needs to affiliate with a
| specific identity, this being practiced both among the wing-nuts
| and the woke-nuts, does appear very present, salient and central
| to the disintegration described as "the reign of universal
| ignorance" in the article.
| zztop44 wrote:
| I graduated in the early 2010s and mostly studying philosophy
| and gender studies. In my experience of that time period, these
| too were difficult courses requiring research and informed
| writing. Certainly, doing well at school required knowing the
| material and having something to say.
| cassepipe wrote:
| From wikipedia's Christopher Lasch entry, here is a quote from
| his:
|
| ``` A feminist movement that respected the achievements of women
| in the past would not disparage housework, motherhood or unpaid
| civic and neighborly services. It would not make a paycheck the
| only symbol of accomplishment. ... It would insist that people
| need self-respecting honorable callings, not glamorous careers
| that carry high salaries but take them away from their families
| ```
|
| This is very dishonest to me it seems to weaponize an existential
| seemingly anticapitalist critique ("The goal of life is not to
| accumulate money but to answer a calling) _against_ feminism.
| Feminists were not disparaging motherhood or unpaid work like if
| it was _above_ them to do it. They criticized the fact that it
| was considered _their_ work and had indeed no opportunity for
| other _callings_
|
| That's not even an interesting angle of attack against capitalism
| because it tells you capitalism is only about people trying to
| get richer. Sigh, I'll pass.
|
| Addendum: This seems to fit "Romantic anticapitalism" as defined
| by Michael Lowy. He had some interesting takes about it IIRC.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Lasch
| whitemary wrote:
| > _Feminists were not disparaging motherhood or unpaid work
| like if it was above them to do it._
|
| Were? When are we talking about? This sounds like Lasch, in the
| 90s or maybe 80s, comparing 3rd wave feminism to 2nd wave
| feminism. I think you are talking past him either way, but it
| helps to be specific. Ultimately, your claims aren't
| contradicting his.
| 7373737373 wrote:
| Also recommended: "The Language of the Third Reich" - the
| language of authoritarian fascism. It's scary to see aspects of
| it being used all around the world.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTI_%E2%80%93_Lingua_Tertii_Im...
|
| This is taught in German schools, but should be taught everywhere
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTI_%E2%80%93_Lingua_Tertii_Im...
| nico wrote:
| What democracy?
|
| Please show me a true democracy
|
| The US is not it
| local_crmdgeon wrote:
| Is democracy a good idea? Is it working out for India and Mexico
| and the rest of the middle-income countries?
|
| We're all supposed to love Democracy by default but ... I don't
| know anymore.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > Is democracy a good idea?
|
| Yes, but being a periphery state in the neoliberal economic
| order is not.
| krapp wrote:
| Many people believe that every human is essentially equal to
| every other and has an equal right to life, liberty and the
| pursuit of happiness, and that a government that represents the
| will of the people, even imperfectly, is preferable to a
| dictatorship.
|
| I don't know why you would say we're all supposed to love
| democracy "by default" as if there weren't centuries of
| history, philosophy and bloody conflict behind that point of
| view.
| woooooo wrote:
| Many people say that. Revealed preference raises its head
| when it comes to the real world, and it turns out American
| interest is a better predictor.
| krapp wrote:
| Americans, despite their bellyaching, live in a democractic
| republic and can afford to indulge in romantic fantasies
| about benevolent dictatorships (as they often do about
| civil war and revolution,) while remaining safe from
| (edit:likely) ever having suffer their consequences. People
| who have actually lived under dictatorships, meanwhile,
| very rarely seem to recommend it over democracy.
| zztop44 wrote:
| Government is a thing that forces everyone to follow their
| rules. You can't opt in or opt out. On face value that's
| extremely coercive and bad.
|
| I think of democracy as a "good idea" being not necessarily
| about being the system that delivers the best governance
| outcomes, but rather about providing some measure of legitimacy
| for the coercion inherent to government.
| jeezfrk wrote:
| Democracy is the worst form of government....
|
| except for all the other ones (including unstable anarchy).
| theklub wrote:
| You want a monarchy?
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