[HN Gopher] How much can you earn creating content on Youtube?
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       How much can you earn creating content on Youtube?
        
       Author : Link-
       Score  : 159 points
       Date   : 2023-05-06 10:53 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.bassemdy.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.bassemdy.com)
        
       | nicksiscoe wrote:
       | This is entirely anecdotal, but reading the comments here it
       | feels like compensation for the bottom 50% of creators has gone
       | down in the last 5-ish years
       | 
       | I ran a Minecraft YouTube channel in high school in 2014 (I
       | thought I was too _late_ to get big on YouTube and shut it down
       | in 2016!) and made $500 a month with 2,500 subscribers. I
       | happened to have one video that got a few hundred thousand views,
       | which helped
        
         | mwidell wrote:
         | Yes, the event where everything went to shit is called the
         | Adpocalypse:
         | https://youtube.fandom.com/wiki/YouTube_Adpocalypse
        
         | bookofjoe wrote:
         | How often did you post a video, and how long were they,
         | roughly? I'm asking because my YouTube channel has about 2,500
         | subscribers but I've yet to see a penny.
        
       | moremetadata wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | elintknower wrote:
       | This guy only has 4k subscribers and averages only 1.2k views per
       | video... that's not good.
       | 
       | I run a channel that produces AI content / tutorials and I do
       | better than this only using 2-6 hours per week.
       | 
       | The devrel / dev content niche is hardly a niche anymore -
       | thinking about a market is everything and as others have said
       | building an audience you can market to with brand partners is
       | where most of the $$ comes from these days.
        
       | ZachSaucier wrote:
       | Ironic that the author has a principle of "no clickbait bullshit"
       | but the article uses a clickbait title since it only talks about
       | his personal experience.
        
       | lakomen wrote:
       | Dealing with Youtube's "copyright" department isn't worth the
       | trouble. Also the same content on a Adsense monezited site yields
       | factor 10 earnings vs Youtube.
       | 
       | Just one example of their copyright shenanigans:
       | 
       | A friend of mine prank called some water cleaning office
       | somewhere in Africa. He was put on hold, while on hold some music
       | played. Youtube wanted to know if he had the license for this
       | "elevator type" music, essentially single tone please hold the
       | line "music". Of course he didn't and he had to edit the video
       | and re-upload.
       | 
       | Who in their right mind thinks that this hold the line music is
       | copyrighted in a way that you couldn't post a conversation
       | containing that music in public? The attraction was what he and
       | them said, not the non-essential music to begin with.
       | 
       | So the same piece of audio on an Adsense site, no issues
       | whatsoever. And 10 times the earnings of the video.
        
         | macintux wrote:
         | > Who in their right mind thinks that this hold the line music
         | is copyrighted in a way that you couldn't post a conversation
         | containing that music in public?
         | 
         | Well, me for one. Honestly this sounds like a rookie mistake.
        
         | realusername wrote:
         | Copyright laws are just there to screw smaller creators, on TV
         | they have agreements with the monopoly license fee holders and
         | they just put whatever they want without asking anybody.
        
           | noAnswer wrote:
           | These agreements involve book keeping and money also.
        
         | jcranmer wrote:
         | Copyright is designed for an industrial content creation
         | context, and it does not have the flexibility it needs to avoid
         | the absurd results it reaches as it's been extended outside of
         | that context.
         | 
         | In this case, it's the same reason that $BLOCKBUSTER_FILM needs
         | to license $HIT_POP_SONG as the montage or mood-setting music
         | for part of their film. It's possible that there's a viable
         | fair use defense in this case, but defending it would likely
         | cost several orders of magnitude more than the lifetime revenue
         | of the video, and to be frank, even the fair use defense
         | ultimately seems weak to me.
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | YouTube doesn't have to engage in the absurdity at all. They
           | have safe harbor protection. All they have to do is process
           | DMCA takedowns in a timely manner rather that preemptively
           | flagging content on behalf of powerful interests. They do the
           | latter because they're in bed with the corporate media who
           | provide content for their subscription services.
        
         | saaaaaam wrote:
         | Hold the line music is absolutely copyrighted in a way that you
         | can't post a conversation containing that music to a channel
         | that you are monetising, without compensating the creators of
         | the music.
        
           | realusername wrote:
           | That sounds absolutely insane, you don't even request that
           | music to be played.
           | 
           | It's time for copyright to adapt to the 21st century.
        
             | MichaelZuo wrote:
             | It doesn't sound like they were blocked from ever sharing
             | the video, just that they can't make as much money off of
             | it.
        
             | noAnswer wrote:
             | The cleaning office didn't requested to prank called
             | either!
        
           | hiatus wrote:
           | Reminds me of how police played copyrighted music so they
           | could avoid being filmed.
           | 
           | https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/04/12/santa-
           | ana-p...
        
       | kachurovskiy wrote:
       | YouTube channel is a must if you run a business. Ran $100 of ads
       | and got zero orders. Spent a couple hours on a video and got 10.
        
       | kamel3d wrote:
       | His content is not good and thats why he not earning that much
        
       | evrimoztamur wrote:
       | I checked his YouTube account to see the kind of content he was
       | producing and honestly, not really impressed. None of these have
       | educational value per se and look (at a thumbnail glance) like
       | opinion vlogs.
       | 
       | For someone who's making a full-time living out of this sort of
       | work, I suggest checking out https://fasterthanli.me/ who writes
       | long-form technical articles on Rust, and provides similarly
       | educational and enjoyable videos on his YouTube channel. He wrote
       | about his journey and his decision to go full-time over at
       | https://fasterthanli.me/articles/becoming-fasterthanlime-ful...
       | 
       | I believe firmly that the type of content OP is producing is not
       | ones people find of monetary value. Educational content with a
       | semi-niche focus is the hot stuff if you are interested in
       | generating income. Provide service, obtain funds!
        
         | dopidopHN wrote:
         | I never heard of that content creator before and I wanted to
         | see by myself as well.
         | 
         | I picked a video on the utility and challenge of test engineers
         | because of all the thumbnails that the subject I had more
         | familiarity with.
         | 
         | The content is good IMO. I can't tell if great but it's not
         | garbage.
         | 
         | But you are right that it's not educational per se. It seems
         | akin to a podcast of Software lifecycle.
        
         | vasco wrote:
         | I don't think getting into producing educational content is a
         | viable strategy if someone is starting now and their goal is to
         | have a good living. Specially on youtube where you also have to
         | give away some of your privacy to the internet.
        
           | zamnos wrote:
           | For recorded media (ie not streaming on Twitch) you control
           | what you upload, so there's very little exposure you don't
           | want, other than giving your details to YouTube so they can
           | pay you. If that's too much exposure for you then becoming a
           | YouTube star may not be for you.
           | 
           | Eg What do the people that run Kurzgesagt look like? I have
           | _no_ idea, because almost all their content is animated.
           | Other YouTube stars choose to share some things, like what
           | they look like, but most don 't give away enough serial to be
           | stalked, and with good reason!
           | 
           | If you get to Mr. Beast level of recognizability, then you
           | have a whole slew of other problems, but you're not gonna get
           | there, so I wouldn't worry about those problems just yet.
        
       | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
       | Easy 10k per month in the finance niche with 4k video quality and
       | descent lighting.
        
       | rchaud wrote:
       | Making non-commercial videos about coding some product is the
       | equivalent of majoring in basket-weaving at Youtube University.
       | 
       | How much you make via advertising is directly proportional to
       | audience size and geographic distribution. Niches with large
       | audiences include video games, superhero movies/IP, makeup,
       | gadget review videos. And even then, ad revenue usually needs to
       | be supplemented by adding affilliate links and in-video
       | sponsorship messages.
        
       | paulette449 wrote:
       | "I have made a total of ... ~148 EUR from Youtube ad revenue"
       | 
       | From 173,000 views
        
         | gennarro wrote:
         | Yea I was interested in the article until seeing this. And
         | then:
         | 
         | > and my content went viral several times
         | 
         | Clearly there is misunderstanding of the platform, its scale,
         | and how to use it if you are seeing this as viral.
         | 
         | That said he seems to be off to a good start. It's just a slog
         | to get going unless you are going to go truly viral with shorts
         | but that won't happen with topics like software, etc
        
           | MichaelZuo wrote:
           | Yeah it seems odd. 1.73 million views is probably 'viral' for
           | a super niche topic, 17.3 million views for less niche
           | topics, 173 million views for music videos.
           | 
           | 173k views though... wouldn't have been viral since at least
           | 2008.
        
         | mattlondon wrote:
         | Yeah approx 1EUR/1000 views which I think is kinda "typical"
         | from what I have heard - the ranges I've heard are approx 1USD
         | to 5USD per 1000 views.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | What's idiotic about this market is that you can't set your
           | own price.
        
             | Ekaros wrote:
             | How would you set your own price?
             | 
             | Just not showing content when there isn't enough adds
             | available surely would drive away watchers. And the
             | advertisers are already bidding. Certain types of content
             | get higher pay.
        
               | ipaddr wrote:
               | Not show ads unless price is met
        
               | Ekaros wrote:
               | Hmm, that could work. And also Youtube as platform could
               | charge you for delivered content. So set high per
               | impression price and if you get more views than add
               | revenue Youtube would send you a bill. Could work, could
               | work.
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | Imagine you are inside a store that has magazines. The
               | magazines are all free, because they are filled with lots
               | of advertisements. Then someone says "It's crazy that
               | these magazines can't set their own prices". And someone
               | else says "How would you do that, nobody would pick up
               | the magazines".
        
               | Ekaros wrote:
               | The magazine might be free. But it might set the prices
               | for adds so high that it don't get filled. Or actually
               | make money. And some VC keeps throwing money at it as
               | surely at some point they will corner the market and make
               | money.
               | 
               | And the video makers and article writers can already
               | contact advertisers and ask for whatever price they want.
        
             | mattlondon wrote:
             | You could totally set up your own site and charge people to
             | view it, or strike your own advertising deals for your own
             | site's content.
             | 
             | But then you'd probably not get any of the benefits of
             | being on the YouTube platform (discoverability, advertisers
             | already on board, targeting etc), so it starts to make more
             | sense when you consider what the platform is giving you for
             | "free".
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | I mean, you could, but the point is that we're forgetting
               | that ads as a monetization model are taking away our
               | freedom to price our products as we choose.
               | 
               | It would be similarly ridiculous if all apps in the App
               | Store were free and you were paid some small amount per
               | app-invocation that you had no control over.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | How much did Google make from those views?
        
           | jsnell wrote:
           | The ad revenue split is reported to be 55% for the creator,
           | 45% for YouTube. (Except for Shorts, where the split is the
           | other way around.)
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | It is the classic & interesting question, but from watching other
       | creators it seems to miss a key variable: Reliability of
       | monetization.
       | 
       | Someone may love making videos, has a reliable core audience and
       | good views from western audience (and thus high pay rate).
       | However if it costs them 1k to make a vid and the algo is
       | hit/miss as to whether it gets demonetized or not then that
       | becomes a show stopper issue. If you make 3 vids a month and are
       | unlucky then you've got a -3k cashflow...so you're not eating
       | that month.
       | 
       | I've seen some move to Twitch as a result since core audience
       | will follow and subs are a bit more predictable (or rather not as
       | all or nothing)
        
         | tester457 wrote:
         | I've seen twitch let's players say they wish they prioritized
         | youtube first because they claimed youtube revenue is larger
         | and more reliable than twitch subs.
         | 
         | But gamers are able to publish a video nearly, a contrast from
         | the kind of youtuber that spends 1k on a video like you
         | mentioned.
        
           | Havoc wrote:
           | I guess youtube has the advantage of potential recurring
           | revenue from back catalog so I can see that creating a
           | reliable stream effect. Depends on type of content I think -
           | some types have very spiky first 48 hours. So either you're
           | monetized there or it's a dud video.
        
       | ryanthedev wrote:
       | "And just to be clear...I know exactly what I'm doing"
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Interesting. We could do the same thread for apps on the App
       | Store. I have the feeling that platform owners are painting a
       | picture that is far too rosy ...
        
         | Link- wrote:
         | Yep. That's exactly why I published this, I see a lot of how
         | "creator X made Y in Z time" and usually it's insane figures. I
         | never saw any realistic figures to gauge what the median might
         | actually look like. This post is it. This is what an average
         | channel performance looks like.
        
       | IshKebab wrote:
       | I think it's really difficult to answer that because revenue per
       | watch varies depending on the content, because different
       | industries are willing to pay different amounts for advertising.
       | 
       | I imagine if you have a popular channel to with anything around
       | money (banking, gambling, investing etc) or high value/margin
       | goods like makeup, cars, etc. then you make significantly more
       | than niche interest channels.
        
         | Link- wrote:
         | CPM (clicks per mille) varies greatly per geography and niche
         | indeed.
        
       | lucas_membrane wrote:
       | Here I see 116 writers complaining about the near-impossibility
       | of making a living via youtube, a property of one of the biggest
       | big dogs in the technological world. Consider the following:
       | 
       | 1. Youtube is a monopoly. 2. Youtube is obtaining unfair
       | advantages from its monopoly status to the disadvantage of
       | content creators, producing woesome despair and exasperation. 3.
       | There are laws that are supposed to prevent this in the U.S. and
       | other large jurisdictions. 4. Preventing this is even one of the
       | rare issues that has visible political support in each of the
       | major political parties of the U.S. 5. Dysfunctional democracies
       | are not. Make them work.
       | 
       | If this problem could be resolved without politics, I would
       | recommend that. If youtube had 4 or 5 significant competitors
       | with competitive markets for both creators and eyeballs, the
       | problem would be minimal. But there is about zero chance that
       | even a single youtube competitor will arise before 99.99% of
       | those now watching their funds dwindle as they produce videos
       | will have given up, despairing and exasperated.
        
         | e63f67dd-065b wrote:
         | What's the alternative that you're proposing? From what Google
         | has published, YT barely makes money even at the current 55/45
         | cut. Consider what they're doing --- hosting billions of hours
         | of video, at global scale, 365 days a year, for free. Nobody
         | wants this business because it's a _terrible_ business.
         | 
         |  _Despite_ all the above, YT is still _the_ primary platform,
         | along with Instagram, to which content creators and influencers
         | flock. People that "make it" on TikTok launch YT channels, for
         | example.
         | 
         | Not making a living on YT is not because of YT's monopolistic
         | status; YT video creation is the best of a bad bunch. The same
         | way most actors go to Hollywood and end up in poverty, most
         | aspiring YouTubers end up with time spent and not much earns.
         | 
         | All the truly big creators make, from what I recall, roughly a
         | third to half the money on Adsense, with the rest coming from
         | other sources (embedded ads, merch, Patreon, donations, etc).
        
       | flandish wrote:
       | I think I could enjoy uploading videos of me doing things I
       | enjoy. I noodle around with things from oil painting to writing
       | emulators. However, both are mostly me tinkering, researching,
       | "hello world" ing and then maybe producing.
       | 
       | Would be neat if someone else enjoyed it.
       | 
       | Maybe I'll try.
        
         | Link- wrote:
         | It's always worth a try! You never know what people will find
         | enjoyable to watch :)
        
       | CM30 wrote:
       | As someone who's posted videos for about 10 years, and posted
       | them seriously since 2017, the best period I ever had gave me
       | about PS1,500 for a couple of months worth of videos. Usually
       | it's closer to PS250 a month or something.
       | 
       | This is entirely from YouTube ads, since at the moment I don't
       | use Patreon, sell merch or run sponsorships. And it's for a
       | channel with approximately 33,000 subscribers.
       | 
       | So I can definitely back up this point from the article:
       | 
       | > Only a handful are getting rich in the process. The drive for
       | many of us is to add value to the world and share our knowledge.
       | 
       | Unless you're in a very lucrative niche (usually finance), you'll
       | need hundreds of thousands if not millions of subs to make a
       | living through YouTube ads and content creation alone. Hell, if
       | you're unlucky enough to be in a field where creating content on
       | a regular basis is tricky or overly time consuming, or where ad
       | clicks are low (usually animation or music), then you may
       | struggle to make enough for a living even then.
       | 
       | Of course, other means of monetisation do make more money than
       | ads alone. If you've ever wondered why ever big YouTuber starts
       | with an ad for Raid Shadow Legends/NordVPN/whatever, that's
       | because those endorsements are a more reliable way of making
       | money than ads alone are. Same with Patreon, donations, merch
       | etc... anything that isn't at the whim of Google is a much more
       | sustainable way of paying the bills.
       | 
       | But yeah, unless you're absolutely huge on YouTube (or have a
       | decently large following in a very high paying niche), then it's
       | not something you'll be able to turn into a realiable day job,
       | let alone a high paying, FAANG software engineer level one.
        
         | AviationAtom wrote:
         | The most successful content creators know how to brand
         | themselves and make a significant amount off such. I think
         | MrBeast would be the shining example.
         | 
         | I think MrBeast could be compared to a Jay-Z of this content-
         | creator era. What I think is noble about MrBeast, and a handful
         | of other creators, is their trying to give back.
        
         | zamnos wrote:
         | I don't disagree, but there are some that have managed to crack
         | the code, or maybe just right place, right time, but eg
         | kurzgesagt has a team of _60_ to run their channel, and also
         | they get a lot of outside funding for their channel. (they have
         | 20M subscribers, but my question is _how_ they got there, not
         | why are they successful now that they are there)
        
           | oblio wrote:
           | Black Swan aka long tail.
           | 
           | Most people starve.
           | 
           | It's not a valid career choice, it's a lottery.
        
             | system2 wrote:
             | I disagree. There is an algorithm and some people analyze
             | the trends to crack it.
        
               | oblio wrote:
               | And those people are the 0.01% and many admit they got
               | lucky, and at a certain point fame is close to self
               | sustaining.
        
         | bleah1000 wrote:
         | While most of this comment is true, there are lots of youtubers
         | that can make it full-time without getting millions of
         | subscribers. The key is that you can't rely on adsense, you
         | need to get as many different ways of getting income as
         | possible (patreon, sponsors, merch, etc).
         | 
         | From my observation, it seems an active base of around 200,000
         | subscribers seems to be where you can do it full-time. I've
         | even seen people with about 100,000 subscribers go full-time.
         | 
         | The trick is that you can't just be making videos, you have to
         | take on a lot of the business parts too. If you just want to
         | make videos and nothing else, then you would probably need
         | hundreds of thousands of views per video to make a living.
        
       | IdontKnowRust wrote:
       | I really like your channel, I'm a developer who wants to learn
       | more of the *Ops world in general.
       | 
       | But for me these platforms like YouTube have a big problem, they
       | force content creators to accept that everything in life have a
       | trade off, which in this case is quality x quantity. YouTube
       | values quantity in the end, while it's users values quality in a
       | strange way. Because of this, niche channels like yours, gets
       | less attention than it should be.
        
         | bemmu wrote:
         | Suppose today you go on YouTube and see 10 recommended videos.
         | 
         | There are thousands of videos it could put in these slots, so
         | they'll be ranked and only the very best (based on metrics and
         | your interests) will make the cut.
         | 
         | Video #11 might have been great, but wouldn't get suggested to
         | you merely because it had a few seconds lower average watch
         | time. Because of this I'd expect a 10% better video (like %,
         | watch time) would improve its views by some huge nonlinear
         | factor (maybe double?).
        
         | Link- wrote:
         | I appreciate your support I'm in it for the long game. In this
         | world the fastest way for growth is riding the waves. An
         | alternative is grinding to build an audience that appreciate
         | the value you offer. The latter takes years of consistent work.
        
       | andai wrote:
       | How does half of $2K (over 2 years!) go to taxes? Doesn't that
       | put you in the bracket where the government _gives_ you money?
        
         | gennarro wrote:
         | Presumably he has a high paying engineering role as well
        
         | veidr wrote:
         | not unless you don't get any other money
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | Many Americans are surprised to learn how much higher taxes
         | often are outside of America
        
           | ta1243 wrote:
           | California total taxes on a $100k income is 28% ---
           | https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-
           | calculator#a3rz8...
           | 
           | UK it's 24% -- https://listentotaxman.com/?ingr=79000
        
             | dragonwriter wrote:
             | 1. The California calculation includes state and federal
             | income and employee share of federal payroll taxes; the UK
             | site appears to include only income tax [see EDIT] (the UK
             | has more complicated payroll tax rates, but each of the
             | employee and employer share can be close to as much as the
             | _combined_ US rate of 14.85% below the Social Security cap)
             | [1].
             | 
             | 2. The UK has much higher consumption taxes than the US
             | (including California) with a 20% VAT and gas taxes close
             | to $3/gallon, compared to (in California) a maximum of
             | 10.25% sales tax and $0.725/gallon state+federal excise tax
             | on gas.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance-rates-letters
             | 
             | [EDIT: Actually, the UK calculation _does_ include
             | "National Insurance", which is the payroll tax equivalent,
             | but it is after the  "total tax due" that the parent used
             | for the comparison. With the employee share National
             | Insurance payment included, the UK total is 30%, higher
             | than the CA amount even before considering the impacts of
             | higher consumption taxes and the higher employers-share
             | National Insurance.]
        
             | woobar wrote:
             | Your links show that take home pay is higher in California
             | ($72K vs PS55K/$69K), despite higher tax rate.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | This is a result of including employee-share payroll tax
               | (FICA) in the California tax total, but not including the
               | UK equivalent (employee share of "National Insurance"),
               | which is listed after the "total tax due", as part of the
               | UK tax total.
        
         | bryanrasmussen wrote:
         | if you're in Denmark it would be easy to get to the point where
         | half would go to taxes, also some countries can have different
         | rates on what is your primary income and what is income earned
         | from secondary sources that are taxed higher. However in the
         | case of having a business that is generating taxable revenue
         | you are probably also buying things at times you can deduct, so
         | it's probably not as dire as all that - although depending on
         | how things are you might not want to deduct more than you
         | actually earn from your secondary source of income.
        
         | jklein11 wrote:
         | If you are doing content creation part time you are going to
         | have more income than the 2k. the 50% is likely the marginal
         | rate though and not the effective rate.
        
           | ta1243 wrote:
           | You should be able to offset a fair few costs against that
           | income.
        
       | fredgrott wrote:
       | Actually that holds out for all platforms including Medium, but
       | medium seem to actually pay better based on my exp:
       | 
       | 1. Monthly hits at 35k 2. Which means that realistically I should
       | be earning $350 to $700. Which in fact happens now!
       | 
       | The key seems to be advertising in sm in the right numbers. When
       | I increase my sm posting to fully daily and multiples using video
       | slide strategy I tend to get the right number of impressions to
       | drive traffic to my medium articles. In my case I need to post
       | 500-1000 postings a month and then I will see my earn per month
       | multiply by 10 to 100.
       | 
       | Impressions will always be the highest but with ads you have it
       | reversed in that you get paid for a distraction which is a
       | different set of metrics. This is good yt creators follow that up
       | with some market product to sell that the yt acts as ad for. In
       | my case my books act as the market piece that my medium articles
       | and yt reels advertise for.
       | 
       | I fully expect to be at 500k in the next 6 months using a
       | modification of GaryVee's content strategy and that is
       | concurrently with my current code and book writing schedule. So
       | yes it is possible even if you have a day job.
       | 
       | And, all while getting my ADHD under control using a modified
       | nootropics approach.
        
         | nibbleshifter wrote:
         | > getting my ADHD under control using a modified nootropics
         | approach.
         | 
         | I'm interested in reading about this
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
         | GaryVee's content strategy is to create pillar content then
         | repurpose it.
         | 
         | How do you find the time to post on social media 15-30 times a
         | day and create the extrapolated content? How do you create
         | quality social media content from based on your main content?
         | 
         | I am working FT on a startup and social media has been a
         | stumbling block for me because it takes a lot of time and I am
         | having trouble balancing building the product and
         | marketing/advertising it.
        
       | mwidell wrote:
       | I run a channel with 85k subscribers and around 10k views per
       | day. My monthly income breakdown is roughly this: - Youtube ads
       | $900 - Affiliate links $2500 - Brand deals $3000 (equates to one
       | sponsored video per month) - Patreon $350
       | 
       | Took me around 5 years of posting a video a week to get here. Now
       | I finally make a living. Started working full time about a year
       | ago. Before that 15-20h per week for years. I talked to some
       | other youtubers, and I think my "path" to making a living from
       | youtube, and my income breakdown, is pretty standard.
       | 
       | Key takeaway here is that youtube is a looong game. You will be
       | unlikely to succeed unless you love making the videos so much,
       | that you are happy to do it almost for free, consistently, for
       | years. And the money is not in adsense, but in brand deals and
       | affiliate links (which are often part of brand deals).
       | 
       | Here's my channel if anyone is curious:
       | https://youtube.com/MicaelWidell
        
         | oblio wrote:
         | How worried are you about copy cats ruining your business?
        
           | mwidell wrote:
           | Not at all. That's the beauty of being an influencer - it is
           | really hard to copy what you do, including personality and
           | all. Also, it takes years to build a following and a personal
           | brand. Sometimes people upload copies of my videos, but
           | youtube has a good system to notify me and take them down.
        
         | jeffwass wrote:
         | Thanks for this Micael, very helpful info and your channel is
         | pretty cool too!
         | 
         | Regarding the weekly video, are you saying you'd spend about
         | 15-20 hours per week on that one video to get to the status you
         | were at last year?
         | 
         | I've heard that regular releases are important for a channel to
         | be picked up properly by "the algorithm". Is this your
         | experience, and is that a critical to keep up the cadence of
         | one video per week?
         | 
         | I make music videos (basically myself playing keyboards) and
         | have never really gotten a good long-term traction with "the
         | algorithm" yet. Sometimes I get a burst of impressions for a
         | few days with corresponding views and subscribes, but these
         | come and go. I release ever few weeks, though some of my videos
         | are shorts, or just a few mins long for a single song.
         | 
         | I think a weekly release would be a real challenge, but maybe
         | that's what is needed to get to the next step? For me the real
         | time sink is all the time arranging and practicing to get to a
         | point I'm confident to even film myself playing.
        
           | mwidell wrote:
           | I spend on average around 10 hours per video. (1h ideation,
           | 4h filming, 5h editing+thumbnail). I make at least a video a
           | week, often 2 videos. How much time you spend per video will
           | be up to you. There are successful youtubers who spend just
           | 8h per video, while other successful youtubers spend A LOT
           | more.
           | 
           | I think of every video like a lottery ticket. I know a
           | certain percentage of them will become "hits", ie. give me
           | 100k+ views. And I know the more videos I make, the more of
           | these hits I get. I also know that over time I will get
           | better and better at my craft, and increase the likelyhood of
           | any video to become successful. I never had a schedule, and I
           | don't beat myself up if I don't post a particular week. I
           | just keep working on my videos a little every day, and post
           | the video as soon as it is done. It has resulted in 1-2
           | videos per week over time.
           | 
           | I know that it is probably best to keep a schedule with
           | strict times, because then the audience will show up once
           | they learn the schedule. But I am always too eager and can't
           | bring myself to not post immediately, and it has worked okay
           | for me :) Most important thing I think is that you don't take
           | long breaks of several months. I think your audience cares
           | about consistency, but not the algorithm.
        
             | jeffwass wrote:
             | Thanks for the reply, very helpful.
             | 
             | Well done for maintaining that publishing momentum. That's
             | a good strategy it seems, spending a little time each day,
             | but enough to maintain a weekly video at least.
             | 
             | Will give it a go and see if it helps. Cheers!
        
           | waboremo wrote:
           | I'm not 100% on youtube's algorithm, but I believe one of the
           | points it hammers is that it's no longer about catering to
           | the video but rather the viewer. So rather than think about
           | weekly releases to play into the algorithm, it's generally
           | better to focus on higher quality content that keeps
           | people/your subs engaged throughout.
           | 
           | Schedules are important for fans, it's easier to grasp that
           | they can check youtube at a certain day and see your new
           | video over hoping they enable notifications. However if the
           | schedule is far too much for you to handle, don't force a
           | weekly schedule! There are plenty of channels doing great on
           | a more spaced out release timing, but perhaps it's best to
           | encourage some sort of schedule on yourself just to keep
           | producing stuff.
           | 
           | As you said though you have to get to a point of feeling
           | confident to even film yourself playing. That's your #1 over
           | scheduling. Maybe livestreaming your practices could help
           | with that, on the plus you would also have a bunch of
           | livestreamed content you can edit down into future videos.
           | Doesn't suit everyone and livestreaming is definitely its own
           | challenge/realm, so it's just a suggestion! But I could see
           | it being good for getting over that whole perfectionism angle
           | we get ourselves into.
           | 
           | For music content specifically, it seems a lot of it revolves
           | around the hopes of getting people aware of your content
           | through fan stuff, and then pushing original stuff alongside
           | it. So piano covers of video game music (for example) and
           | then they also release original music; the former is easier
           | to create/tag/practice, the latter establishes uniqueness
           | amongst the sea of channels.
        
             | jeffwass wrote:
             | Thanks for the suggestions waboremo!
             | 
             | I never would have even thought to film myself practicing,
             | I would have thought it would be way too boring for any of
             | my subscribers to want to see.
             | 
             | Honestly I feel fairly camera shy, and in life I managed to
             | roll a 3 in charisma :-) Luckily I don't need to speak in
             | my actual published videos. But I'll give it a think and
             | maybe try it out some time.
             | 
             | Yeah I mix it up w/ covers and originals. Every cover is in
             | my own unique style, and has at least some bit of
             | originality in it.
        
               | waboremo wrote:
               | Definitely think a lot of creatives feel the same, that
               | practice is too boring or too raw but it's just a part of
               | the process! Some love seeing that process, and it gives
               | them another way to connect, others don't really care but
               | even just seeing the process on the channel can
               | demonstrate authenticity.
               | 
               | Lots of options even if you don't want to show your face
               | or voice as well. Like short videos on how do play the
               | chorus of (popular media here), with text/graphics on the
               | video to help people.
               | 
               | Don't discount external platforms as part of the entire
               | journey, they can feed into each other. Twitch-Patreon-
               | Youtube combination is really common, TikTok/Insta Reels
               | instead of Twitch is another. Best part of such video-
               | based combinations is content reuse, you don't need to
               | generate new content per platform, fantastic for
               | stretching out periods between intense recording
               | sessions. Then add in platform specific content (like
               | opening up some rough draft originals to Tiktok duets,
               | encouraging people to add their own lyrics), and you've
               | got quite a substantial cycle in place without much
               | serious effort due to all the reuse!
        
         | themodelplumber wrote:
         | Congratulations, that's awesome.
         | 
         | I'm curious, do you adjust or renegotiate your brand deals
         | periodically based on anything like metrics, value of their new
         | campaigns, etc.?
         | 
         | In general just curious about how those contacts work out for
         | you. Not in the game but have worked around it a lot, away from
         | YouTube.
        
           | mwidell wrote:
           | It is very hard to set a price. But when you are negotiating
           | with brands you soon get a feel for what you are worth. And
           | yeah I increase my rates over time if I grow the average
           | views per video.
           | 
           | Typically the deals are only on a video-for-video basis, even
           | if I had contracts lasting up to 5-6 months at most. So it is
           | easy to ask for a new price when you negotiate the next deal.
        
         | petepete wrote:
         | Hey Micael. I've been a subscriber for years, love your channel
         | and all things macro photography in general.
         | 
         | Really wasn't expecting you to pop up on hn!
        
           | mwidell wrote:
           | Appreciate that :) In a previous life I was a programmer/CTO,
           | so it's an old habit to visit HN.
        
             | agumonkey wrote:
             | Did you foresee a 5 year span before stable revenue (and
             | indirectly, did you have to alter your ways/work to have
             | better views and workflow) ? Also did you try other
             | platforms ?
             | 
             | Kudos on the dedication :)
        
               | mwidell wrote:
               | When I started I studied some other channels in the
               | photography niche. And I saw that you need around 100k
               | subscribers to make a living. I also saw that most of the
               | successful channels in this niche needed around 5-7 years
               | to get there. So yeah this was very much expected.
               | 
               | But I'm not doing this for the money. I do it because it
               | is the most fun project I have ever done. I would do it
               | for free. If I go too long without posting a video I
               | actually start feeling depressed. So for me it is
               | therapy. But it is nice to earn a living from doing
               | something you must do to be happy :) And also it feels
               | nice when people ask what I work with, to mention
               | something that actually earns me a living.
               | 
               | YouTube is pretty much the only viable platform if you
               | make long form content and want to earn money doing so.
        
         | dmuso wrote:
         | How do you deal with "talking to the void" at the beginning? I
         | speak publicly fairly regular and I get a lot of energy from
         | people in the crowd. I've done some YouTube and converted that
         | to podcast format. I can't seem to get motivated to do it as I
         | can't see/interact with people. People I know in my niche
         | community will tell me they watched my video or listened to the
         | podcast, I think "oh that's nice I guess" and I go back home to
         | stare at a camera and I can't seem to connect making a video
         | with audience interaction. Is this a thing? How do you think I
         | could deal with it?
        
         | naavis wrote:
         | I went to check out your channel just to realize I was already
         | subscribed. Well played!
        
       | hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
       | I started a YouTube channel at the end of 2017 and published on
       | YouTube on a regular basis for a bit over a year. My best year
       | was about $1,500. I've made $4,600 since I started the channel.
       | 
       | At the channel's peak, I was trying to publish a DIY video where
       | I would build something two or three times a month. I started the
       | channel because I enjoy making stuff and thought I would be able
       | to do more of it and maybe get paid to do it.
       | 
       | As I continued, I worked hard to polish my production style and I
       | realized I was prioritizing the video production over doing what
       | I loved. Making videos taking time away from actually making
       | stuff and making the projects take 10X longer. So I stopped.
       | 
       | I still post videos from time to time, but I try to do everything
       | in a single take and not spent more than an hour editing it. Last
       | year I finished a project I was pretty proud of and spent about
       | 20 hours working on a video and it only got 100 views after the
       | initial posting. For me, it takes a lot of self promotion to get
       | the algorithm to recognize the video as a good video and have it
       | be shown to more people. The self promotion part is something I
       | really dislike doing.
       | 
       | YouTube is great for people that love the process of making
       | videos because it's a win whether someone watches your video or
       | not. Editing can be fun, but for me it gets tedious and I prefer
       | doing a lot of other things.
        
         | okr wrote:
         | I wonder, what would come out, if all these editing things can
         | also be automated and optimized by an AI. Leaving the video
         | intact, but doing the cuts, translation, timestamps,
         | colorizing, densing, audio gaining, lighting, so it all looks
         | compared to things out there.
        
         | _davebennett wrote:
         | I think DIY content is so hard to make. For me, it usually
         | involves building stuff that I find interesting, but that is
         | usually super niche and doesn't appeal to a mainstream
         | audience. Thus, less views which makes the whole time spent on
         | making the video feel wasted compared to other projects I could
         | be doing.
         | 
         | On the other hand, I could try to build projects that might be
         | more mainstream for the better views, but then I'm spending
         | time creating stuff I don't want to make.
        
           | SkyPuncher wrote:
           | People who are interested in DIY are interested in the
           | process far more than the average person. They want to learn
           | techniques on how to build the things they want.
           | 
           | You can't build a Youtube channel by highlighting what you've
           | built. You have to explain how and why it's built the way it
           | was. The end result is maybe 5% of the value.
        
           | MaxikCZ wrote:
           | As a consoomer I find interesting that the production quality
           | has bigger say over which DIY projects I watch than if the
           | thing they are building aligns to my interest. For example
           | JohnnyQ90 is filming himself creating very high quality RC
           | cars from scratch, and despite me not having interest in
           | machining/rc cars I still watch basically all his videos.
           | 
           | Your interest being niche may not matter as much as you may
           | think.
        
             | _davebennett wrote:
             | That's a good point! Though, I would still argue that
             | things like RC cars are more mainstream then a video about
             | building a RISC-V emulator or re-implementing an existing
             | protocol.
        
               | MaxikCZ wrote:
               | You are right. Such concepts are truly abstract, such for
               | illustrations are hard to make. The matches may not be
               | perfect, but examples in this case come to mind:
               | 
               | [0]braintruffle - took the concept of computer fluid
               | simulation as main topic over detailing specific
               | implementation, few videos a year.
               | 
               | [1]Reducible - His explanation of GJK algo, even after
               | reading papers on it, made me appreciate it.
               | 
               | Both utilise extensive animation skills, mastering
               | meaning of video.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXs_vkc8hpY
               | 
               | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajv46BSqcK4
        
         | chongli wrote:
         | _Making videos taking time away from actually making stuff and
         | making the projects take 10X longer. So I stopped._
         | 
         | Check out Kenji Lopez-Alt [1]. He's an award-winning chef who
         | makes cooking videos by strapping a GoPro to his head and going
         | to work in his home kitchen. He has basically none of the fancy
         | production you see on cooking TV shows. Yet his videos are very
         | popular because he's a great chef and he tells you the why in
         | addition to the what and how.
         | 
         | I'm pretty sure he's made his setup just about as close to
         | optimal as possible in terms of minimizing the time he spends
         | on the video production part while still looking great. I think
         | his one bit of fancy production is that he has a nice spot by
         | the window to set a cooked dish for his thumbnail photograph. I
         | think a bunch of his cooking videos also do double duty to
         | supply photographs for his cookbooks, but that's unnecessary
         | for the vast majority of video creators.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.youtube.com/user/kenjialt
        
           | drBonkers wrote:
           | Do you reckon he uses the built-in microphone, or an
           | external?
           | 
           | This channel is amazing. I learn best by simply watching
           | others do, and this will surely help me advance my culinary
           | art!
        
             | chongli wrote:
             | He definitely does not use an external mic. You can tell
             | because of the reverb from his voice bouncing around the
             | kitchen getting picked up on the camera's internal mic. If
             | he wore a lapel mic he wouldn't have that problem!
             | 
             | But lapel mics cost money and they can be a pain to wear,
             | especially when you're cooking and need to keep your hands
             | free without anything dangling into the food or the fire!
        
             | 123pie123 wrote:
             | I've just watched over an hour of his videos, he's very
             | good.
             | 
             | Apart from the good format I found myself thinking the
             | audio is extremely good
        
           | SkyPuncher wrote:
           | Kenji isn't really representative of the path most people can
           | take.
           | 
           | His reputation is almost exclusively from his superb cooking
           | articles (and recipes). The Youtube channel is a side dish,
           | not the main course.
        
             | chongli wrote:
             | I said his videos are very popular because he's a great
             | chef. Nowhere did I imply that you can go from nothing to
             | famous person by strapping a GoPro to your head. I
             | mentioned Kenji because he's an example of someone who
             | makes great videos with absolute bare minimum production
             | effort. The person I replied to talked about how video
             | production had gotten in the way of the enjoyment of the
             | craft. I think Kenji's videos are a perfect example of how
             | to avoid that problem. That doesn't mean following this
             | advice will lead to instant wealth and fame.
             | 
             | Ultimately, there is no formula for fame because audiences
             | are fickle and trends are fleeting.
        
           | psanford wrote:
           | Even with Kenji's minimal setup he still said recently he
           | spends on average 6-8 hours per video on editing[0].
           | 
           | [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxOlI6QB0oI
        
         | sebazzz wrote:
         | > Making videos taking time away from actually making stuff and
         | making the projects take 10X longer. So I stopped.
         | 
         | Isn't that why a lot of YouTubers (or content creators,
         | whatever the name is), hire a videographer to do that work for
         | them?
        
           | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
           | So a lot of YouTubers start primarily self editing up until
           | they have enough of a following to hire someone's services.
           | It can be painful!
        
           | Broken_Hippo wrote:
           | If you have money laying around, sure. If not - and you
           | aren't really making money - then no. And even then, lots of
           | folks do their own editing.
           | 
           | It isn't all that different from other arts: If I paint, I
           | might be lucky enough to pay a gallery, either through
           | commission (often 40-60%) or through renting space (often,
           | monthly payment plus a lower commission). You might be able
           | to rent space. But most folks just have to do all the small
           | stuff themselves. It isn't uncommon for artists to spend more
           | time doing social media/advertising/mundane stuff than they
           | do creating art, if you are trying to make money.
           | 
           | I'm not as intimate with the music scene, but it seems a lot
           | of folks do similar stuff.
        
           | CM30 wrote:
           | They do, but you need a large following and a decent amount
           | of money for this to be affordable in the first place. I paid
           | someone I know to edit some of my videos for a while, and
           | even at a fairly low price, I would end up spending as much
           | money on the editing as the video paid out to begin with.
           | Same with thumbnails, a lot of big creators get someone else
           | to make them, but the prices there are quite steep too. I
           | used the same thumbnail designer as a few of my favourite
           | 100K subs YouTubers, and it was like $200-300 a thumbnail.
           | 
           | So it's probably like, $1-2K per video if you want someone
           | else to take care of the editing and thumbnail design
           | aspects. Hence you'll likely have to do this stuff yourself
           | for the few hundred thousand or so subs, at least if you
           | don't have FAANG/trust fund money on the side.
        
         | AnimalMuppet wrote:
         | Can you educate me a bit here? If you do it in a single take,
         | what do you _do_ in your hour of editing?
        
           | inconceivable wrote:
           | import the video from your device. cut out/speed up the
           | boring parts. add a voice over or music or corrections to
           | dialog. add intro screens, cut screens, transitions, titles.
           | tweak the audio, censor curse words if required. insert
           | images or screenshots you reference. insert labels/graphics.
           | export it. re-export it because you screwed something up.
           | upload to youtube. fill out their required forms. write
           | description, timestamps, link cards, end cards. create
           | affiliate links if that's what you're doing. follow up on
           | social media. etc. etc. etc.
           | 
           | you're probably thinking of streaming, which involves less
           | work, but you have to do it in real time with OBS or
           | whatever. maybe you're talented and can do it yourself, but
           | sometimes that involves a second person at the controls.
           | 
           | sure you can just upload a raw video straight from your
           | device. but this is exceedingly rare, because you've grown
           | accustomed to at least the basic round of editing - you
           | likely don't even realize what edits have happened. raw video
           | is incredibly boring. will anyone watch it? if not, then what
           | are you even doing that for?
           | 
           | you should try both sometime, it's not quite as easy or fast
           | as it sounds.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | I wonder how long it takes before someone makes an AI to do
             | it.
        
               | zamnos wrote:
               | Adobe Premiere, along with special purpose apps are
               | already here. take the raw video, chop it up into pieces,
               | grab the algorithimically determined "interesting" ones,
               | stick a recent audio track behind it. volia! not as good
               | as if you had a team helping you create content, but a
               | whole helluva lot easier.
        
               | b0bb0 wrote:
               | Can you share more about these services please?
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | Thinking a bit more about it, I guess you could have an
               | algorithm that detects the start of a fragment based on
               | speech (e.g. you say "fragment start!") and you could
               | rank the fragments at the end, e.g. "fragment stop score
               | 8!" I suppose you could do that with open source speech-
               | to-text tools. And use ffmpeg to cut and stitch
               | everything together.
        
               | tough wrote:
               | This exist, there's a software that will trim any non-
               | talking parts of your video with AI as a smart video
               | editor
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Editing is boring work because you have to go through hours
           | of video and find the right fragments and stitch them
           | together, then rewatch to see if the flow is right, etc.
        
             | hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
             | Exactly, selecting what to put in the video is incredibly
             | time consuming if you have a lot of footage. That's not
             | evening mentioning editing. Every time I watch a section of
             | video I would find things that can be improved. At a
             | certain point, you need to stop polishing and just finish
             | it.
        
           | michaelt wrote:
           | Well, you can't build much in the ~10 minutes of a typical
           | youtube video.
           | 
           | So presumably by "one take" hahamrfunnyguy means he:
           | 
           | * Stopped recording driving to pick up materials, placing
           | orders where there's a wait for parts to come in, and
           | suchlike.
           | 
           | * Stopped recording things speculatively, just in case he
           | decides to make a video later.
           | 
           | * Stopped worrying about 'narratives' and 'thumbnails' and
           | 'the algorithm' when working.
           | 
           | * Stopped cleaning off his hands and fussing with camera
           | settings to get the perfect shot of every step on every
           | machine.
           | 
           | * Stopped trying to make point-of-view videos and keeping an
           | eye on the camera screen, so he didn't need the tripod
           | between him and the workpiece.
           | 
           | * Stopped retaking any time he messed something up or flubbed
           | his lines or the audio came out bad.
           | 
           | * Stopped worrying about set dressing like having a
           | picturesque, tidy background for every shot
           | 
           | Then the editing process is just editing several hours of
           | video down to a few minutes and maybe recording a voiceover.
        
             | hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
             | Pretty good summary of all the stuff that goes into a DIY
             | build videos. Now I just show the finished product and talk
             | about some of the design details and problems solved along
             | the way. I think there's a lot of value in this sort of
             | content, but I haven't made enough of them to know if it's
             | something people actually want to watch.
        
               | tracker1 wrote:
               | Can't speak for others, but I have several channels I
               | follow where this is effectively the format... It's a bit
               | harder at times where it's just a tripod in the corner,
               | and might be more effective with a headband mounted gopro
               | depending on your work. But other than that, just
               | appreciate enough instruction and video to understand how
               | things are being worked on, usually fast forwarding (in
               | the edit) through the more laborious (time consuming)
               | parts.
               | 
               | But I follow such a wide variety of topics from
               | political, to technical, to PC gaming to food (keto,
               | general, other) and home construction or even electronics
               | DIY stuff. I think YouTube has trouble figuring me out...
               | I tend to get fed too much of one thing over time, and
               | have to go into my subscribe list (a few hundred) and
               | start watching from the more recent, or specific channels
               | depending on what I'm in the mood for.
        
       | tpoacher wrote:
       | Even better question:
       | 
       | For people who multiplatform, how does youtube compare to other
       | platforms, and how does monetization differ on those platforms?
        
       | ImKevinArcher wrote:
       | Thanks for sharing, I think affiliate links to specific apps or
       | products is the right way to go, as YouTube is paying a very low
       | amount for ads.
        
       | jamalone wrote:
       | Is there a specific reason why you have your link structured that
       | way? I'm surprised to see that many tags as subfolders to the
       | content, not sure I've come across that structure before. Just
       | curious!
        
       | dsir wrote:
       | In terms of monetization I think content creators are better
       | served focusing on leveraging their reach to build up a community
       | to support them instead of optimizing primarily for ad revenue.
       | Platforms like YouTube have continuously shown that relying on
       | automated ad systems is unreliable and puts your ability to
       | monetize subject to the whims of the advertisers. Many
       | established creators have wrongfully received demonetization
       | strikes against their channels threatening their livelihood.
       | 
       | It seems like the biggest asset that creators are creating are
       | the communities that form around them and their niche. The people
       | who consume content within a niche tend to be very likeminded and
       | often times quite willing to rally behind and support the
       | bastions propelling the niches that they identify with. Even for
       | smaller creators, I've seen time and time again that all you need
       | is one or two highly dedicated and engaged fans to make being a
       | creator an extremely lucrative endeavour.
       | 
       | I've been working on a platform to help content creators
       | diversify their revenue streams and offer their communities as
       | one of their product offerings in addition to their content. The
       | hope is to allow creators to better capture their community and
       | monetize from their niche.
       | 
       | https://sociables.com/creators
        
       | tzs wrote:
       | There's a section about YouTube in this video [1] by Samuri
       | Guitarist called "How Much Money Guitarists Actually Make Might
       | Surprise You". The YouTube money is covered in the "The Content
       | Creator" section.
       | 
       | Overall the video lives up to its title. I was in fact surprised
       | by how much guitarists actually make. The surprise worked both
       | ways--some of the ways guitarists might make money paid much
       | worse than I expected, and some paid much more.
       | 
       | [1] https://youtu.be/Ch7t9KGcOPk
        
         | AviationAtom wrote:
         | I think this data is subject to change quickly. I think content
         | creation has enjoyed it's "Dot-com Bubble" era. I think it's
         | already starting to change, but will likely very rapidly change
         | if a recession sets in soon, as many prominent economists are
         | expecting.
         | 
         | Content creation payments are fueled by advertising dollars and
         | it's easy to see that the advertising market has started to
         | contract, as evidenced by many of the modern news outlets
         | folding, driven in much part by loss of advertising revenues.
        
           | red_trumpet wrote:
           | > as evidenced by many of the modern news outlets folding
           | 
           | Which time frame are you talking about here? I had the
           | impression news outlets folded during the last 20 years
           | because ads went online?
        
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