[HN Gopher] Unix Koans
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       Unix Koans
        
       Author : nimbius
       Score  : 182 points
       Date   : 2023-05-06 03:40 UTC (19 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (prirai.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (prirai.github.io)
        
       | gravypod wrote:
       | Seems similar to this: http://www.mit.edu/~xela/tao.html
       | 
       | Wish there was a hard copy. Would make a great goofy gift for
       | coworkers.
        
         | teddyh wrote:
         | Hard copy of that page has ISBN 0-931137-07-1:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tao_of_Programming
        
         | thesuperbigfrog wrote:
         | >> Wish there was a hard copy.
         | 
         | Hard copy:
         | 
         | https://www.amazon.com/UNIX-Programming-Addison-Wesley-Profe...
         | 
         | Soft copy:
         | 
         | http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/
         | 
         | http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/
         | 
         | The original Unix koans are found in Appendix D:
         | http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/unix_koans.html
         | 
         | Additional Unix koans were added (and removed) over time:
         | http://catb.org/~esr/writings/unix-koans/
        
       | quantum_state wrote:
       | Nice!
        
       | arendtio wrote:
       | > "And how many hours would you require to implement and debug
       | that C program?" asked Nubi.
       | 
       | How about "How many hours would you require to write the shell
       | script so that it handles all allowed file names appropriately?".
       | As far as I am concerned the classes of errors are certainly
       | different, but shell scripts have their own pitfalls.
       | 
       | Just yesterday I came across a one-liner that didn't work as soon
       | as the filename had a space in the filename.
        
         | shhsshs wrote:
         | Then you are not using enough quotes in your shell scripts.
        
           | teddyh wrote:
           | Most people know about quotes to handle spaces. The real
           | trick is to handle file names which start with a hyphen.
           | 
           | (And if you _really_ want to level up, write your scripts to
           | handle file names with _embedded newlines_.)
        
       | teddyh wrote:
       | Real URL: http://catb.org/~esr/writings/unix-koans/
        
         | DonHopkins wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | tasuki wrote:
           | Why? The author might be a vile racist, but his site is the
           | source for this collection. The link posted here just strips
           | the editor's introduction[0] which I personally found
           | valuable.
           | 
           | [0]: http://catb.org/~esr/writings/unix-
           | koans/introduction.html
        
             | microtherion wrote:
             | Regardless of the merits of the material and its author, I
             | think the primary site, if anything, should be used.
             | 
             | If you find this valuable/entertaining enough to read then
             | read it at the original URL.
             | 
             | If you find the author vile and/or the material not worth
             | the time, linking to a ripped off copy of it doesn't make
             | things better.
        
             | Fnoord wrote:
             | Because of the paradox of tolerance, and because you might
             | not wanna connect to an extremist's website. You could
             | argue you don't wanna read their writings either but AFAICT
             | the writing is solid.
        
           | worthless-trash wrote:
           | Why ?
           | 
           | Are we living in a world now where if one part of someone
           | sucks we assume that everything from that person is evil ?
           | 
           | Is that how tribal we're going ?
        
             | baremetal wrote:
             | It seems only people who are loaded up on current buzzwords
             | to be upset about are like that. On both sides.
             | 
             | Well adjusted people are able to overlook an offense.
             | 
             | "A person's wisdom yields patience; it is to one's glory to
             | overlook an offense." - Proverbs 19:11
        
           | tarxvf wrote:
           | ESR is explicitly anti-racist and always has been from what
           | I've seen, so this is a very confusing post.
        
             | DonHopkins wrote:
             | Well that's a bald faced lie.
             | 
             | https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/816447812661551108
             | 
             | https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/780839196231630848
             | 
             | https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1273510887463124992
             | 
             | https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond#Political_bel
             | i...
             | 
             | Political beliefs and activism
             | 
             | Raymond is a member of the Libertarian Party and a gun
             | rights advocate.[24] He has endorsed the open source
             | firearms organization Defense Distributed, calling them
             | "friends of freedom" and writing "I approve of any
             | development that makes it more difficult for governments
             | and criminals to monopolize the use of force. As 3D
             | printers become less expensive and more ubiquitous, this
             | could be a major step in the right direction."[25][26]
             | 
             | In 2015 Raymond accused the Ada Initiative and other women
             | in tech groups of attempting to entrap male open source
             | leaders and accuse them of rape, saying "Try to avoid even
             | being alone, ever, because there is a chance that a 'women
             | in tech' advocacy group is going to try to collect your
             | scalp."[27][28]
             | 
             | Raymond has claimed that "Gays experimented with unfettered
             | promiscuity in the 1970s and got AIDS as a consequence",
             | and that "Police who react to a random black male behaving
             | suspiciously who might be in the critical age range as
             | though he is an near-imminent lethal threat, are being
             | rational, not racist."[29][30] A progressive campaign, "The
             | Great Slate", was successful in raising funds for
             | candidates in part by asking for contributions from tech
             | workers in return for not posting similar quotes by
             | Raymond. Matasano Security employee and Great Slate
             | fundraiser Thomas Ptacek said, "I've been torturing Twitter
             | with lurid Eric S. Raymond quotes for years. Every time I
             | do, 20 people beg me to stop." It is estimated that, as of
             | March 2018, over $30,000 has been raised in this way.[31]
        
               | tarxvf wrote:
               | https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/29/us/splc-leadership-
               | crisis/ind...
               | 
               | http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4278
               | 
               | It's really telling that you included the bit about guns
               | and gun rights in support of your assertion that he's
               | racist. It reads more like you're upset with his politics
               | overall?
        
               | baremetal wrote:
               | It's strange how incoherent some peoples views are, they
               | are so mixed up inside they cant even stay on topic and
               | create a cogent argument.
        
               | DonHopkins wrote:
               | So you tolerate his racism because you like his politics?
               | Or is tolerating racism part of your politics too?
               | 
               | "Unfortunately, this doesn't cover the BLM crowd, which
               | would have an average IQ of about 85 if it's
               | statistically representative of Americans blacks as a
               | whole. I've never tried to train anyone that dim and
               | wouldn't want to." -Eric S Raymond
               | 
               | "In the U.S., blacks are 12% of the population but commit
               | 50% of violent crimes; can anyone honestly think this is
               | unconnected to the fact that they average 15 points of IQ
               | lower than the general population? That stupid people are
               | more violent is a fact independent of skin color." -Eric
               | S Raymond
               | 
               | "And for any agents or proxy of the regime interested in
               | asking me questions face to face, I've got some bullets
               | slathered in pork fat to make you feel extra special
               | welcome." -Eric S Raymond
               | 
               | "A clash of civilizations driven by the failure of
               | Islamic/Arab culture (though I would stress the problem
               | of the Islamic commandment to jihad more than he does). I
               | think he [Steven den Beste] is also right to say that our
               | long-term objective must be to break, crush and
               | eventually destroy this culture, because we can't live on
               | the same planet with people who both carry those memes
               | and have access to weapons of mass destruction. They will
               | hate us and seek to destroy us not for what we've done
               | but for what we are." -Eric S Raymond
               | 
               | "When I hear the words "social responsibility", I want to
               | reach for my gun." -Eric S Raymond
        
               | tarxvf wrote:
               | (More related discussion)
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15513074
               | 
               | http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=142
               | http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4994 Note the page numbers of
               | those URLs. From the first one:
               | 
               | """ Let's start with a strict and careful definition: A
               | racist is a person who makes unjustified assumptions
               | about the behavior or character of individuals based on
               | beliefs about group racial differences.
               | 
               | I think racism, in this sense, is an unequivocally bad
               | thing. I think most decent human beings would agree with
               | me. But if we're going to define racism as a bad thing,
               | then it has to be a behavior based on unjustified
               | assumptions, because otherwise there could be times when
               | the fear of an accusation of racism could prevent people
               | from seeking or speaking the truth.
               | 
               | There are looser definitions abroad. Some people think it
               | is racist merely to believe there are significant
               | differences between racial groups. But that is an abuse
               | of the term, because it means that believing the
               | objective truth, without any intent to use it to prejudge
               | individuals, can make you a racist. """
               | 
               | You're continuing to act as if you hate his politics and
               | refuse to read what he writes in good faith, and fail to
               | cite quotes. I guess from the previous discussions this
               | is a pet project of yours. Calling out problems and
               | explicitly trying to figure out solutions where everyone
               | is on equal footing is the opposite of racism.
               | 
               | For my own pet project: Public school systems are failing
               | to teach effectively but it disproportionately impacts
               | minorities due to systemic income inequality (suburbs
               | with 'good schools' being richer). (My mom thinks this is
               | done on purpose and stems from old-school racists still
               | upset about desegregation, and lately I think she's right
               | - too many inner city schools are turning people out
               | without even the ability to read for it to be an
               | accident.) In your worldview, ESR would be giddy about
               | this and want it to continue. Does that really seem like
               | something he would agree with, to you?
               | 
               | From my reading of his blog, I can't really see my way to
               | a world where he would. He seems like a
               | libertarian/egalitarian that would want to improve
               | education for everyone, so it's very difficult to see
               | _how_ you 're getting to your conclusions, nevermind try
               | them on for size.
        
               | tarxvf wrote:
               | > So you tolerate his racism because you like his
               | politics? Or is tolerating racism part of your politics
               | too?
               | 
               | From the start this thread is because I questioned the
               | description of him as a racist, so I clearly don't
               | believe he's a racist. Tolerating racism is very much
               | _not_ a part of my politics, or your accusation of him
               | being a racist wouldn 't bother me in the slightest.
               | Obviously.
               | 
               | Still not sure why you've consistently tried to cast
               | phrases that disagree with you politically but have
               | absolutely no bearing to race as racist in tone, somehow.
               | At least this last set of quotes, minus the context,
               | facially _appear_ to be racist. That's an improvement! I
               | couldn't substantiate the first couple. He could
               | plausibly have just made the originals disappear, but at
               | this point I'm losing interest. If he was a racist, and a
               | presumably unapologetic one, why is it not in his blog,
               | and why is his blog in stark contrast to your claims?
        
               | baremetal wrote:
               | Calling people racist is hateful.
               | 
               | Even if they are racist.
               | 
               | Let's love and not hate. don't make it worse by adding
               | hatred to an already awful situation.
               | 
               | "You cannot solve a problem with the same mind that
               | created it." - Albert Einstein
        
               | nicoco wrote:
               | Hate the racism, not the racist! I agree. All we need is
               | love, for fuck's sake.
        
             | teddyh wrote:
             | Just FYI about DonHopkins: in the past, in response to
             | exchanges like this here on HN12, and despite my identity
             | not being public here on HN, user DonHopkins _tracked me
             | down_ and emailed me several times (despite me not
             | responding), writing unhinged rants accusing me of racism
             | because of some bookmarks I had saved (also not public,
             | which he _also_ tracked down) since they contained links
             | to, among other things, some people whom he found
             | objectionable.
             | 
             | Just so you know what to expect.
             | 
             | 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26211920#26222246
             | 
             | 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26215112#26234284
        
           | baremetal wrote:
           | What kind of mentality could this post be described as?
           | 
           | Calling people racist is hateful.
           | 
           | Lets love and not hate.
        
       | roblh wrote:
       | If you go to that website and then back to hn, the hn background
       | looks blue.
        
         | inportb wrote:
         | So it does! Neat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterimage
        
       | b1c837696ba28b wrote:
       | is < this | the > way
        
       | l0b0 wrote:
       | I don't get Master Foo Discourses on the Two Paths. "Three pounds
       | of VAX!" Anyone?
        
         | alexjurkiewicz wrote:
         | Restating the koan: The UNIX way values both simplicity of
         | implementation and correct behaviour in all circumstances.
         | These values are often in tension. You must not follow these
         | values blindly. They apply only at the right time.
        
         | djha-skin wrote:
         | The original koan has a monk asking "What is Buddha?" With the
         | Master's response being "This flax weighs 3 pounds", referring
         | to the flax in his garment. The koan is intended to point out
         | the practical nature of the Buddhist religion. Buddha to the
         | master is all the things he does as part of his worship, and
         | there are practical aspects to that worship such as buying 3 lb
         | of flax. "Buddha is as Buddha does".
         | 
         | Unix nature being "3 lb of VAX", the most popular hardware
         | running Unix at the time, suggests that practicality is more
         | important than idealistic purism. Tigers like to stay on the
         | ground but sometimes they jump in the air so saying "tigers are
         | creatures of the ground" have exceptions that make sense. A
         | similar idea applies to eagles. These exceptions are part of
         | nature.
         | 
         | Exceptions to the rule in favor of practicality are okay and
         | still make sense. These exceptions are still part of Unix
         | nature.
        
         | jimhefferon wrote:
         | It comes from a famous koan. Google "three pounds of flax".
        
         | kqr wrote:
         | I know the traditional Unix worse-is-better philosophy holds
         | simplicity of implementation as a higher goal than consistency
         | of interface. I don't know how that ties into tigers and VAXen,
         | though.
        
       | makeitrain wrote:
       | https://youtu.be/lE4UXdJSJM4
        
       | vrglvrglvrgl wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | Affric wrote:
       | That was a great read. Very fun. And wise.
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | _Sounds_ very wise.
        
       | isoprophlex wrote:
       | I love these. Maybe someone can help me locate a hacker koan I
       | once read, but can't seem to find anywhere... it was a
       | particularly humorous dig at java-style object oriented
       | programming in a corporate environment; the novice spends their
       | day lugging an object all through the corporation, peeling off
       | layer after layer, only to find an empty method returning
       | nothing.
       | 
       | Somehow I can't find it, or the collection it was in, anywhere...
       | maybe this rings a bell with anyone.
        
         | mjw1007 wrote:
         | This one? http://www.thecodelesscode.com/case/110
        
           | isoprophlex wrote:
           | Oh yes, that's the one! Thank you so much!
        
         | traverseda wrote:
         | Somewhere in here I think
         | 
         | http://thecodelesscode.com/contents
        
           | isoprophlex wrote:
           | Thanks! Many more forgotten gems in there, too..!
        
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       (page generated 2023-05-06 23:03 UTC)