[HN Gopher] A mansion hidden directly under the Bay Bridge
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A mansion hidden directly under the Bay Bridge
        
       Author : thunderbong
       Score  : 339 points
       Date   : 2023-05-04 09:25 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sfgate.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sfgate.com)
        
       | ciabattabread wrote:
       | That ramp in the back was a _recent_ development?! [0]
       | 
       | [0] https://www.sfcta.org/projects/i-80-east-side-ramps-project
        
       | jimnotgym wrote:
       | I'm sure there would be plenty of people who would want to live
       | in a place like that, even with the traffic!
        
       | pyuser583 wrote:
       | Very sad. Understandable, but sad.
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | Seems like the perfect place for a museum, tbh.
        
         | dontblink wrote:
         | Could be one about WW2 actually!
        
         | sidewndr46 wrote:
         | There's already a significant museum in Nimitz's hometown:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Museum_of_the_Pacific...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | w10-1 wrote:
       | It's hard to imagine that sentimental navy brass can gum up a
       | critical roadway for over a decade -- contributing to the many-
       | billion-dollar increase in bridge cost from the original plan.
       | 
       | The interplay between civilian control of the military and the
       | military putting bases or jobs in every congressional district is
       | dicey.
        
         | meindnoch wrote:
         | NIMBYism runs deep in California.
        
         | mulmen wrote:
         | How do we fix it? Compulsory service with a peaceful election
         | in exchange for higher education and lifelong healthcare?
        
       | startupsfail wrote:
       | Cars really should be put underground. Electric cars going in
       | tunnels, not gasoline cars spewing the exhaust from the top of
       | the bridge.
       | 
       | ... _The mansion's bright white siding is turning dull and black
       | from car exhaust._ ...
        
         | cowsandmilk wrote:
         | Turning black is almost certainly from tire dust, which
         | electric cars also produce.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | I'm all for that, if you're able to pay for it!
         | 
         | Sadly, boring tunnels is a teensy bit more expensive than
         | paving roads... :(
        
           | startupsfail wrote:
           | Every bit helps. If you look at the Central Expressway (Bay
           | Area) and compare it to Lawrence Expressway. Lawrence sits
           | above, goes via an overpass and generates a lot of noise.
           | Central, on the other hand had been lowered down. And lets
           | smaller roads to pass over it. A lot less noise.
        
         | eastbound wrote:
         | It puts the fun into "In 2000 we'll have flying cars" when the
         | whole XXth century was spent building highways and ramps that
         | were higher and higher into the air, and the whole XXIth will
         | be spent trying to put them underground. The real futurist
         | landscape is a city like Lyon in France, or Amsterdam, where
         | cars are put away and we walk or bike to work.
        
           | lobochrome wrote:
           | Hem-hem Tokyo Hem-hem
        
           | startupsfail wrote:
           | Flying cars is a dream of baby boomers. To everyone else,
           | this is a nightmarish scenario of unending noise and exhaust
           | spewing from these baby boomers flying over the residential
           | areas.
        
           | systemtest wrote:
           | Most of the times I have worked in Amsterdam people did not
           | go to work by bike or on foot. Most people came in by car,
           | the second largest group used the train into Amsterdam and
           | only a small part was able to walk or bike to work. Those
           | were usually upper-management, people able to afford housing
           | in Amsterdam and not living in the surrounding suburbs and
           | satellite cities. For them it was still a 25 minute bike ride
           | to the industrial estate that the office was in, so sometimes
           | they would call an Uber to work.
           | 
           | Anecdotal though.
        
           | tomrod wrote:
           | We have plenty of flying cars today thanks to our crumbling
           | infrastructure! It's that infernal hard stop at the end
           | that's the problem. /s
        
         | Zetice wrote:
         | Why tunnels tho? Or rather, why single occupancy vehicles in
         | tunnels? It just feels like a public transit system with extra
         | steps...
        
           | lotsoweiners wrote:
           | Because a lot of people will never want to take public
           | transit even if it was more convenient than it is now. In the
           | US outside of NY, Chicago, SF, and perhaps a few others
           | public transit sucks. Even adding 5 new light rail lines
           | isn't going to change things in Houston when most people want
           | suburban life and only go downtown for a sporting event or
           | concert.
        
             | beowulfey wrote:
             | I'm not sure if your first sentence is true, but it's an
             | interesting idea. My gut says even the most staunchly anti-
             | local transit folks would still gladly use public transit
             | in a city that has a good system (e.g. if they were to
             | visit Paris, or Tokyo, etc).
             | 
             | Saying people would _never_ use transit even if it were
             | more convenient doesn't match the pattern of what I've
             | observed actual humans do. It would be nice if there was a
             | study on this.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Visiting vs living is very different. Everyone I worked
               | with in Rome drove to work, but the people I worked with
               | were admittedly of a certain group.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | fakedang wrote:
         | Or, you know, shift the entire building away, brick by brick,
         | if it's historically important for the city?
        
         | sva_ wrote:
         | I've been living on a busy street for the first time and the
         | amount of fine dust from car exhausts is absolutely staggering.
         | Never again.
        
           | nine_k wrote:
           | I think it's mostly not exhaust but the dust from the road
           | top layer and from tires. Electric drive helps little with
           | that.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Brake dust, too. You find it all over things near
             | completely electric rail lines, which have no gas or tires.
        
         | cyberlurker wrote:
         | If an electric car is in an accident and the battery catches
         | fire, my understanding is it is very difficult to get under
         | control.
         | 
         | Something I am curious about is what will happen when we have
         | hundreds of electric cars going through the Lincoln Tunnel?
         | Will battery fires be better or worse than gas fires?
        
           | mulmen wrote:
           | The numbers say EVs catch fire at a lower rate than ICE so
           | presumably there would be fewer, although EV fires are more
           | intense.
           | 
           | https://www.autoweek.com/news/a38225037/how-much-you-
           | should-...
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | It takes a decade and many billions of dollars to dig a single
         | tunnel in most cities in this country. So best of luck with
         | your plan..
        
           | RC_ITR wrote:
           | It's an interesting chicken and egg problem in America.
           | 
           | Have people lost the will to think big because others before
           | them have failed, or do people assume that they will fail
           | because they don't think big.
           | 
           | I guess the asset-light strategy works sometimes (a lot of
           | cities are regretting mass transit investments post-
           | pandemic), but it sure doesn't seem to lead to better quality
           | of life.
        
           | startupsfail wrote:
           | I understand that the price of a tunnel is somewhat
           | comparable to the bridge.
        
             | ink_13 wrote:
             | You are misinformed. Consider the engineering challenges
             | alone.
        
             | avree wrote:
             | "A frequently cited rule-of-thumb in transportation
             | engineering is that tunnel construction costs two to three
             | times as much as bridges, and that simple rule of thumb
             | explains why there are so many more bridges than tunnels in
             | operation today."
             | 
             | What gives you your understanding? Mine is from multiple
             | sources at the top of Google for the query "price of tunnel
             | versus price of bridge"
        
               | startupsfail wrote:
               | I've never said it was the same. Somewhat comparable. In
               | practice bridge is likely more expensive, if you take in
               | the externalities accumulated over the lifespan of the
               | bridge full of cars.
               | 
               | Engineering costs its a matter of volume, what kind of
               | ground you need to dig, expertise and experience. If you
               | can get something like the Boring company up, costs would
               | drop down.
               | 
               | And engineering costs don't account for externalities of
               | having a bridge full of noisy cars hanging there,
               | polluting in every modality: view, noise, smell,
               | splitting the neighborhood, reducing walkability,
               | destroying the property value.
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | The bridge is literally on top of a bunch of faults.
               | Tunnels are even more of a death trap. No thanks.
        
       | jdechko wrote:
       | I'm genuinely interested in the environmental discussion that
       | took place during engineering that led to this decision. There
       | are a couple of federal statutes pertaining to construction of
       | roads on (or near) historic properties (FHWA Sec. 106 and 4f). I
       | can't imagine that this was an ineligible historical resource
       | given its age and historical significance.
       | 
       | Even the alterations to view itself could have qualified, so I'm
       | assuming that there were no feasible alternatives. There may also
       | be some other nuances that the article didn't cover, so I'm not
       | completely certain, but it's enough that I'm curious.
        
       | virtualwhys wrote:
       | FTA, $500 per day to rent an historic mansion overlooking the bay
       | (i.e. before the bridge obstruction)
       | 
       | I have a family wedding to attend back east this autumn and we're
       | looking at around that (before "service fees" and taxes) to sleep
       | 5 out in the sticks of New Hampshire -- short-term housing has
       | truly gotten out of hand, basically everywhere.
        
         | iLoveOncall wrote:
         | Yeah Airbnb has become so outrageously expensive and is so much
         | less convenient than a hotel that it's almost never worth it
         | anymore, it's crazy.
        
           | kaiwen1 wrote:
           | Negotiate if you're staying for a month or more. I frequently
           | get prices that are less than half the asking price.
        
             | herbst wrote:
             | You can always negotiate. When I did nomading I regularly
             | only booked on or two days with booking and then asked for
             | a deal for one or two more weeks if I liked the place.
             | 
             | At least the 15% or so fee from booking portals are easily
             | waved. If you are off season and the hotel is empty anyway
             | they often are happy to go even further.
        
           | switchbak wrote:
           | Things must be different here (BC, Canada). I can't think of
           | why I'd ever rent a hotel room when AirBnB's are usually a
           | similar price and way more comfortable (usually).
           | 
           | Unless I had a worry about cancellations I suppose.
        
             | kelnos wrote:
             | I live in the US, and for most places I travel in-country,
             | my experience is similar to yours.
             | 
             | There are exceptions, of course.
        
             | iLoveOncall wrote:
             | They are comfortable during the stay, but not when you
             | arrive or leave and waste so much time there.
             | 
             | I never know if that Airbnb will have toilet paper, towels,
             | shampoo, dishwashing liquid, etc. and for everything that
             | they don't I have to do a supermarket trip and buy a
             | quantity that would last 2 months when I'm staying 2 days.
             | 
             | Then when you leave, despite paying 20% of cleaning fees,
             | you may be asked to do the dishes, vaccum the floor, etc.
             | 
             | All of that together has an extremely high cost, especially
             | on a vacation.
        
             | prmoustache wrote:
             | In europe my experience is kind of the oposite. Airbnbs
             | have been incrementally more expensive over the years. Thet
             | are now as expensive as hotels, but without the quality of
             | service.
             | 
             | Only times I enjoy airbnb are when I am travelling alone,
             | don't need more than a room, and want to actually have the
             | opportunity to chat and get tips from the host.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | AirBnB is like the proverbial curled girl:
             | 
             | When she was good, She was very good indeed, But when she
             | was bad she was horrid.
        
           | dmd wrote:
           | I have the exact opposite experience -- as someone who always
           | wants two adjoining rooms (for kids). Doing that in a hotel
           | tends to cost as much as 3 times what an Airbnb would cost,
           | and the airbnb is more comfortable. You just need to actually
           | read reviews.
        
             | culopatin wrote:
             | Well you have a very particular scenario, but in most
             | cases, having to clean up everything, take the trash out,
             | doing dishes, cleaning grill, taking linens out, collecting
             | towels and starting the washer while still getting kicked
             | out at 10? And paying hundreds for cleaning on top of that?
             | You can't enjoy the last day and you're paying for it.
        
               | dmd wrote:
               | I must be staying in very different airbnbs than you. I
               | have never had to do any of that. But I only stay with
               | Superhosts and only 4.8 or higher.
        
               | virtualwhys wrote:
               | Been there, not even sure how it's legal to charge a
               | (usually quite substantial) cleaning fee while having the
               | guest do 1/2 the work.
        
               | late2part wrote:
               | In a Napoleonic legal system it might not be. Perhaps the
               | question you should ask instead is why is it not illegal?
        
               | madaxe_again wrote:
               | You choose poorly, I'm afraid to say. I ask my guests to
               | do nothing but lock the door behind them, and I don't
               | charge a cleaning fee.
        
               | culopatin wrote:
               | Yeah blame me all you want but you're an exception, not
               | the rule. Good for you though and I hope to find more
               | hosts like you.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | AirBnB just needs to add a "no cleaning fee" search
               | option.
        
               | coolsunglasses wrote:
               | I've never had to do any of that. AirBNB is way cheaper
               | for my family of 6 (3 adults, 3 kids)
        
               | toofy wrote:
               | you've been very lucky. the list of "chores" i've had to
               | do at the airbnbs i've stayed at is unreal. even worse
               | when i was paying absolutely ridiculous cleaning fees.
        
               | squeaky-clean wrote:
               | If there's a high cleaning fee I just don't do the
               | "chores"
        
               | kelnos wrote:
               | I've found that level of chores to be pretty rare (and
               | nonexistent in more recent years), and there was a push
               | over the last year or so (from Airbnb to their hosts) to
               | do away with much of that sort of thing. Not sure how
               | well it worked, though. At any rate, reading through
               | reviews usually tells you if the chores are excessive.
               | And if it doesn't, and you end up doing more work than
               | you'd like, you can always include that in _your_ review.
               | (I also noticed that nowadays many hosts advertise  "no
               | chores" in their listing description, or even listing
               | title.)
               | 
               | Personally I don't mind taking out the trash and starting
               | the dishwasher before I leave. I draw the line at doing
               | laundry or actual cleaning, though. I'm always torn on
               | being asked to strip the beds that we've used. On one
               | hand... annoying... but on the other, that tells me that
               | they won't waste water and electricity/gas cleaning stuff
               | that doesn't need to be cleaned, which I like. Sorta in
               | the same line as when a hotel will ask you to hang towels
               | that you're ok with using multiple times, and leave
               | towels you want washed on the floor or in the tub.
               | 
               | My assumption is that part of the reason for the
               | excessive chores is that it's harder to turn around a
               | property for a new guest when the cleaning crew isn't on-
               | site. At a hotel, housekeeping just goes from room to
               | room down the hall until they're done, and the hotel
               | often has some amount of slack so even if housekeeping
               | isn't completely finished, they can still check in new
               | guests as they arrive.
               | 
               | At an Airbnb, the cleaning crew may not even be at the
               | property for the entire run of a dishwasher. But I
               | suspect the hosts that want you to do things like start
               | laundry don't have an extra set of bedsheets and towels:
               | in that case, screw them, they're being cheap and making
               | you work for it.
               | 
               | > _You can't enjoy the last day and you're paying for
               | it._
               | 
               | You pay for nights, not days (same as a hotel).
               | Regardless, I don't think I've ever "enjoyed" my last day
               | in any kind of rented accommodation where the check-out
               | time is noon or earlier. The entire morning is always
               | about getting ready to leave.
        
             | casenmgreen wrote:
             | I'm hearing AirBnB have for a little while now been playing
             | fast and loose with reviews - genuine and fair negative
             | reviews are being blocked, and it looks like this is to
             | prevent (short-term) loss of revenue to AirBnB.
        
             | extr wrote:
             | Yeah what I've found with Airbnb is these days you need to
             | optimize way harder for host quality/reviews and less for
             | your actual preference in terms of location, price,
             | furnishings. If the place has a 4.95, you will get what you
             | pay for. 4.5-4.8 = there many be some hiccups. < 4.5 you
             | might as well go to Vegas and put the money on black.
        
           | r00fus wrote:
           | It's sad because AirBnB has also similarly shrunk the "suite"
           | class of room that we as a 5 person family need. So we're
           | forced into using AirBnB/VRBO because hotels only offer 2+2
           | (and most rental sites don't let you even look for 5 person
           | rooms). Ugh.
        
             | bastardoperator wrote:
             | I'm trying to book multiple(4) rooms for 9 people and most
             | places I've searched just don't seem to support the idea of
             | a group traveling. I don't want to call every place, I'm
             | just trying to shop.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Sometimes, letting professionals help is the only way.
               | They already know the places that can accommodate your
               | party's size, and can often get very competitive rates.
        
               | whitemary wrote:
               | Hiring this type of professional does not come at a
               | "competitive rate"
        
               | t-writescode wrote:
               | Travel Agents tend to be free (for the traveler), what
               | are you talking about?
        
               | perfmode wrote:
               | where does one find a travel agent?
        
               | WJW wrote:
               | Unless they are also free for the person renting out the
               | place, wouldn't they simply raise the price by the cost
               | of the travel agent?
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Similar to apartment locators, the "agent" is often paid
               | by a commission from the apartment rather than by the
               | person using the service. So this is one of those cases
               | where you are the product.
        
               | aetherson wrote:
               | No doubt. But probably not specifically for this stay, so
               | basically all the people who also rent this place without
               | using a travel agent are subsidizing your use of the
               | travel agent.
        
             | ptudan wrote:
             | Just search for 4. You're almost never going to get in
             | trouble for sleeping 2 adults and 3 kids in a hotel room
             | for 4.
        
               | mc32 wrote:
               | Often you can find that they will charge $xx per
               | additional person, if you go over the listed figure (if
               | you choose to declare the overage).
        
               | late2part wrote:
               | More often they will declare >N persons a 'fire safety
               | hazard' and refuse for your safety and security. And to
               | help them make more revenue.
        
               | itsmartapuntocm wrote:
               | Cruise ships do this too, even if the extra person is an
               | infant.
        
               | ahi wrote:
               | From personal experience, just stick the youngest on the
               | floor
        
               | tomcam wrote:
               | That's outrageous. You could trip over one and sprain
               | your ankle. We just tied ours outside and told people the
               | kids identified as dogs.
        
               | 0_____0 wrote:
               | What? Why?
        
               | garbagewoman wrote:
               | The author probably intended it to be an hilarious joke,
               | but they assumed you are as well versed in Fox News
               | identity politics as they, sadly, are
        
               | tomcam wrote:
               | You're right about the first part. I don't have Fox News
               | so I'm not sure about the second part. I'm not
               | particularly sad about it but thank you for your concern.
        
               | runlaszlorun wrote:
               | Personally, I got a good laugh out of it...
        
               | byyyy wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | greenhorn360 wrote:
               | There's an active genocide going on but you just had to
               | go there. This would have still been funny without this
               | tired, old, cliche of a "joke"
        
               | brd529 wrote:
               | This has been our experience
        
         | ClimaxGravely wrote:
         | Pardon the sidebar. What does FTA stand for? Googling the term
         | doesn't seem to yield results that make sense to me.
        
           | deodar wrote:
           | From The Article, I assume.
        
           | coolsunglasses wrote:
           | From the article
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | AtNightWeCode wrote:
         | Hotels in SF are affordable for some reason.
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | Well, you're obviously not looking for abandoned navy mansions.
         | Don't worry, I'm not charging for this valuable tip.
        
         | stdbrouw wrote:
         | They mention this was before the Loma Prieta earthquake which
         | was in 1989; if we take inflation from 1980 to now into account
         | that'd be $1600-1900 today. Probably still good value, esp.
         | given the view, but I guess it does depend on how it was
         | furnished at the time.
        
         | samstave wrote:
         | I, too, choose this man's Dead Wedding.
        
         | smeej wrote:
         | New Hampshirite here: Wherever you're trying to stay, it sounds
         | like you're doing it wrong...
         | 
         | Unless you're trying to be in, like, Lancaster during PorcFest
         | or something.
        
           | fsckboy wrote:
           | you got me so excited!... till I could find no mention of
           | pork and porcfest in the same sentence
           | 
           | tl;dr Porc refers to porcupines, which is their mascot for
           | libertarians
        
           | cdchn wrote:
           | Funny I had never heard about PorcFest until just now and
           | drove by Roger's Campground less than an hour ago.
        
             | smeej wrote:
             | It's not that PorcFest is especially widely known. It's
             | just that Lancaster doesn't have much in the way of
             | inventory, and it books up for that one week, even though
             | the event is at a campground.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | Car centric American infrastructure rears its ugly head once
       | again. A once beautiful view spoiled by the concrete monstrosity
        
         | gregoriol wrote:
         | But hunderds of thousands times more useful is the bridge than
         | the house
        
         | systemtest wrote:
         | Public transit still needs bridges to cross bodies of water.
        
       | nchudleigh wrote:
       | The ads on this site are unbearable on mobile.
        
         | onychomys wrote:
         | Brave blocks ads natively in their mobile browser, you should
         | give them a shot.
        
           | manquer wrote:
           | Many sites are using adblocker blockers (including this one)
           | 
           | don't know about Brave but mblock origin fails for this site
           | on Firefox mobile on iOS
        
             | mardifoufs wrote:
             | ublock works on kiwi browser on android for this website.
        
             | seszett wrote:
             | I use uBlock on Firefox Android, as well as AdAway (which
             | functions as a DNS adblocker) and I had no problem, and no
             | ad.
        
             | KronisLV wrote:
             | > don't know about Brave but mblock origin fails for this
             | site on Firefox mobile on iOS
             | 
             | uBlock Origin with Firefox on the desktop seems to work for
             | me, though there probably are a few differences between
             | mobile and desktop.
        
               | manquer wrote:
               | A lot, Firefox ( and every other browser on iOS) are
               | effectively skins on Safari. Apple will only allow third
               | party browsers that use WebKit on the App Store.
        
           | tomrod wrote:
           | There is a lot I don't like about Brave, but I can't fault
           | them for having the best mobile app on market (for me).
           | 
           | Why not Firefox? Bad redesign release a few years back and
           | now discernible way to change the accessibility so it holds
           | always. Old.reddit text is too small to be read no matter
           | what I've tried.
           | 
           | None of the other browsers on Android I've found to be worth
           | the time.
        
       | prepend wrote:
       | This seems like a cool place to secretly camp.
        
         | hackernewds wrote:
         | with that proximity to San Francisco, that idea likely has
         | already been oversubscribed
        
           | prepend wrote:
           | Yeah, but likely there's some cycle of "there's lots of
           | guards scaring away campers so no one camps, guards get lazy
           | and it's empty so good for camping"
        
       | ihaveajob wrote:
       | Fun fact: You can reach it by bike from the east bay now, and it
       | makes for a fun ride. Just be careful for side winds!
        
         | inferiorhuman wrote:
         | Fun fact: You _still_ can 't reach Treasure Island or Yerba
         | Buena island by foot or bike from San Francisco. People living
         | on TI are entirely dependent on Muni and private automobiles,
         | and even then SFMTA tried to cut service to Treasure Island a
         | few years back.
        
           | SmellyPotato22 wrote:
           | Recently a regular ferry that goes between the island and the
           | ferry building was established. It's a very pleasant ride and
           | they allow you to take your bike on it.
        
       | themodelplumber wrote:
       | Pretty neat that you can view the whole circumference of the
       | house, and _almost_ read the plaque outside, in Street View:
       | 
       | https://goo.gl/maps/8Xc6MUhmAdKQTXbHA
       | 
       | It brings to mind good memories of family outings spent in former
       | officer's housing, up in Officers Row at Fort Worden, WA. Hide &
       | seek was a lot of fun.
        
         | Aeolun wrote:
         | They really did make that bridge as ugly as possible.
        
           | kelnos wrote:
           | From below, I suspect most structures like that are ugly. But
           | personally I think the new bridge span looks nicer than what
           | it replaced. Not gonna sing its praises, but I think it's an
           | improvement.
        
             | herbst wrote:
             | European here. Bridges definitely can good good also from
             | below.
        
         | ant6n wrote:
         | Looks like the house is in the shade of that bridge, contrary
         | to various comments here.
        
       | jfoutz wrote:
       | also, interesting they had to design it not to cast a shadow on
       | that house
       | 
       | """ But the decision to build an architectural icon didn't end
       | problems - it started new ones. The most bizarre was with the
       | U.S. Navy. In 1998, it refused to let Caltrans onto Yerba Buena
       | Island to finish its engineering work. The Navy's issue was
       | whether the Bridge would overshadow the one-time home of Admiral
       | Chester Nimitz, a hero of World War II.
       | 
       | "We had to come up with a design where we wouldn't cast a shadow
       | down onto that particular property," Ney explained, with the
       | Nimitz home in the background and directly next to the new span.
       | "We had to make sure that the bridge snugged up close enough to
       | the existing one so that we weren't coming over the top of
       | Admiral Nimitz' house." """
       | 
       | https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-bay-bridge-competing-agains...
        
         | CPLX wrote:
         | San Francisco is the only place I know with this bizarre
         | obsession that things shouldn't be allowed to cast shadows on
         | other things, as a general rule.
         | 
         | It's just strange.
         | 
         | https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/SF-supervisors-...
        
           | pyuser583 wrote:
           | That's definitely a thing in other cities.
        
           | wrp wrote:
           | There was a case in Oregon, I think a couple decades ago,
           | where an Indian tribe built a longhouse in town then tried to
           | prevent construction of any building that might cast a shadow
           | on it. I don't remember whether they aimed at the courts or
           | city council, or how it turned out.
        
           | parasti wrote:
           | Why is it strange? Sunlight is an extremely valuable asset,
           | both physically and mentally. I actually find the opposite
           | mindset (that sunlight doesn't matter) really strange.
        
             | CPLX wrote:
             | I mean of course it matters.
             | 
             | But it definitely ain't a valuable asset, it falls on
             | pretty much the entire planet, excepting the
             | infinitesimally small portions that are directly next to
             | tall buildings. Even Ireland and Seattle from time to time.
             | 
             | But either way, the link I posted is about San Fransciso
             | not approving a low rise apartment because it could cast a
             | shadow on a basketball court for a few hours A YEAR, which
             | is, in fact, _insane_ in an urban housing crisis context.
        
             | bobsmooth wrote:
             | Those in Plato's cave don't value sunlight either.
        
           | zeagle wrote:
           | In the USA. For interest:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_light . The second
           | last paragraph comments on SF.
        
             | CPLX wrote:
             | Very interesting. The concept has been soundly rejected in
             | the US. Except for San Francisco.
             | 
             | How's that working out?
        
               | jfoutz wrote:
               | I think NYC is king of sunlight regulation
               | https://www.nyc.gov/assets/oec/technical-
               | manual/08_Shadows_2...
        
               | CPLX wrote:
               | I mean actually read it. It basically says shadows don't
               | really matter much and you barely need to worry about
               | them and then goes on to spell out in very clear detail
               | what happens when they do matter so there don't have to
               | be moronic lawsuits every time someone wants to build a
               | low rise apartment building.
        
               | jfoutz wrote:
               | I'm not sure I understand -
               | https://sfplanning.org/resource/shadow-analysis-
               | procedures-a...
               | 
               | 40 feet, times of year, 20% shadow. make a model. At the
               | surface level, they look similar to me. NYC has been
               | doing that for a whole lot longer, I wouldn't doubt their
               | planning department has a more refined process. But it's
               | not like SF is alone in this kind of regulation.
        
               | bobthepanda wrote:
               | My understanding is that NYC
               | 
               | * has smaller time requirements for sunlight; the
               | planning requirements state that an area should have 4-6
               | hours of sunlight a day, whereas SF looks at if it gets
               | any worse over any time period
               | 
               | * NYC only protects specific kinds of park uses for
               | sunlight, so like sunlight is not material for a
               | basketball court, for example.
        
               | garbagewoman wrote:
               | Not sure who you think you're arguing with
        
               | quitit wrote:
               | The inclusion of a solar-study to prove adherence to
               | shadow regulation is a standard part of most types of
               | development applications, not just in the USA but around
               | the world. This kind of build out is regulated for many
               | reasons: property damage, aesthetics, health, and with a
               | renewed focus: energy use. This includes casting shadows
               | over one's own property.
        
           | karaokeyoga wrote:
           | It's a thing in Tokyo as well, leading to some interesting
           | building shapes.
           | 
           | https://thetokyofilesurbandesign.wordpress.com/2016/05/24/ja.
           | ..
        
           | googl-free wrote:
           | We have this in Austin too. Also the capitol view corridor,
           | an inverted system protecting sightlines to the capitol
           | building
        
         | Camillo wrote:
         | It may not cast a shadow directly on it, but the bridge still
         | destroyed the mansion's utility.
         | 
         | The alternative would have been to run the new east span south
         | of the old one, instead of north. Apparently San Francisco
         | preferred that option, but Oakland wanted the north alignment.
         | I'm not sure why, all I've seen mentioned so far is that they
         | chose that particular alignment to ensure drivers would get a
         | good view of San Francisco while driving west...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | bluenose69 wrote:
       | I guess I'm listening to too much Lana Del Ray lately, because my
       | first thought upon reading the title (all I could see above a
       | subscription box) was of a tunnel under Ocean Boulevard, far down
       | the coast.
        
       | blahedo wrote:
       | The article kept mentioning that it was the _re_ -building of the
       | bridge that added noise and soot and such. But... there was a Bay
       | Bridge there before, right? That island isn't very big, so the
       | bridge couldn't have moved that far... how is the new bridge so
       | categorically different for the view/air/noise of this house than
       | the old one was?
        
         | jedberg wrote:
         | The old bridge was a couple 100 feet over, on the other side of
         | the hill behind the house. Big difference if the freeway is
         | behind a hill vs directly overhead. :)
        
       | lovemenot wrote:
       | >> In 1998, the feud between the Navy, which still owned Yerba
       | Buena Island, and Brown went public. Navy officials expressed
       | frustration that the new eastern span would flow directly over
       | Nimitz House and the nearby historic residences of other
       | officers. A Navy aide called the plan "devastating."
       | 
       | Not In My Immediate Territorial Zone
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | "Don't build here!"
         | 
         | "Oh yeah? We're the state! You and what navy will stop us?"
         | 
         | "We ARE the Navy!"
         | 
         | "Oh."
        
           | selimthegrim wrote:
           | That's how Robert Moses' plans for a Manhattan bridge were
           | stopped - when FDR blocked it on national security grounds
           | for the Navy
        
       | adolph wrote:
       | The whole thing is a frankenbuilding but that add-on toilet on
       | the back side is something else.
        
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