[HN Gopher] U.S. Hits Z-Library with New Domain Name Seizures
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       U.S. Hits Z-Library with New Domain Name Seizures
        
       Author : nickthegreek
       Score  : 253 points
       Date   : 2023-05-05 13:00 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (torrentfreak.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (torrentfreak.com)
        
       | sneak wrote:
       | https://youtu.be/hn1VxaMEjRU
        
       | unixhero wrote:
       | Qith zlibrary were flying to close to the sun. There are better
       | ways to evaluate books for free
        
       | Asooka wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | sbaiddn wrote:
         | and I hope that corporation's ability to lobby Congress to
         | change laws against the public interest banned, and their
         | lawyer's ability to practice law removed for ever.
         | 
         | Free the Mouse!
        
         | jimbob45 wrote:
         | 4chan thrives off troll comments like this. I sometimes think
         | it's healthy for online debate because you're much less likely
         | to viciously attack someone if you can't be sure if they're
         | trolling or not. Also, the opposing side gets steelmanned which
         | is less likely when every member of a group belongs to the same
         | side or if the moderation leans heavily of one side (neither of
         | which apply to HN).
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | Troll comment? Doubt it. I believe what he wrote is exactly
           | what he thinks.
        
           | snvzz wrote:
           | >4chan thrives off troll comments like this.
           | 
           | Thrives? I report them on sight, and the moderation team does
           | a great job of removing offtopic and flamebait.
        
         | unethical_ban wrote:
         | Paging Nathan Poe
        
         | wing-_-nuts wrote:
         | Oh no! Won't someone think of 'The Economy' or 'The Children'?!
         | 
         | Sorry man, an unrestricted global 'public library' that allows
         | those who can't afford it to access just about any published
         | book is an unmitigated 'good thing'. I bet you also hate scihub
         | as well. Won't someone think of the poor academic journals and
         | their rent seeking?
        
           | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
           | If the original writer or peer reviewers who DO THE JOB of
           | the paper itself were paid from the collections, the argument
           | would be "well with your purchases, the author and reviewers
           | earn enough to fund more research or pay bills but no. Its
           | only the publishers who get paid.
        
             | matheusmoreira wrote:
             | These peer reviewers are the only reason journals even
             | matter. Their selectivity is the whole point. They should
             | all quit those publishers and start a literal blog.
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | Corporations use lobbyists to capture and corrupt-to-the-bone
       | every important regulatory agency we have. The laws themselves
       | are corrupt, what meaningful laws do manage to exist are not
       | enforced correctly due to these revolving doors. So when
       | corporations hurt the People in major ways on a daily basis,
       | nothing from the government, in fact the government is
       | systemically complicit.
       | 
       | But HEAVEN FORBID the People make the smallest transgression
       | against corporate interests, suddenly the government is Johnny on
       | the Spot and swings immediately into action, no stone goes
       | unturned, no expense is spared.
       | 
       | It's sickening to watch.
        
         | hgs3 wrote:
         | Its called crony capitalism [1].
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism
        
           | CapstanRoller wrote:
           | That's redundant and an invocation of the No True Scotsman
           | fallacy. The cronyism is an inherent feature of capitalism,
           | not a bug. There are no real-world examples of non-crony
           | capitalism.
           | 
           | The cronyism always manifests itself from the beginning, and
           | only gets worse.
        
             | user3939382 wrote:
             | It's funny how communists and capitalists both make the
             | same point and counterpoint, just inversed.
        
               | CapstanRoller wrote:
               | The most honest capitalists (e.g. some AnCaps, some
               | neoliberals) do make this point, but it's not very
               | common. As much as I disagree with their views, I admire
               | their brutal honesty about the system they endorse.
               | 
               | What I can't stand is the disingenuous whitewashing of
               | capitalism, which boils down to "don't trust your lying
               | eyes" and "it's not Real Capitalism, which is actually
               | cool and good". One can't have a productive discussion
               | with these sorts of evangelists, much like one can't have
               | a productive discussion with fanatical cryptocurrency
               | fanboys who insist that ugly monkey JPEGs and The
               | Blonkchain will magically create a perfect society, if
               | only we just Do It Harder.
               | 
               | "Crony capitalism" is a thought-terminating cliche.
        
           | zokula wrote:
           | [dead]
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | The US Trade Representative publishes a literal naughty list of
         | countries whose efforts to combat infringement it deems
         | insufficient. The document is filled with language such as
         | "stakeholders report this", "shareholders are concerned about
         | that". Corporations leveraging the might of the US government
         | to sanction other countries that have better things to do than
         | police imaginary american property.
         | 
         | Sickening doesn't even begin to describe it.
        
         | mysterydip wrote:
         | Amazing how quickly the justice department works for certain
         | interests.
        
           | 206lol wrote:
           | Many people say ACAB for this specific reason - cops work for
           | moneyed interests. To be a cop is to defend the wealthy and
           | corporate, axiomatically. Plenty of cops are nice people, but
           | they're working for a system that fundamentally is bad.
        
             | all2 wrote:
             | What's the solution, then? If central authority is Bad
             | (TM), is it decentralized authority that is the solution?
             | IE, everyone gets a gun, everyone is deputized, everyone is
             | responsible for upholding the law as citizens and
             | enforcers.
        
             | CapstanRoller wrote:
             | >Plenty of cops are nice people, but they're working for a
             | system that fundamentally is bad.
             | 
             | How nice can you really be if you sign up for, and continue
             | to work within, such a awful institution?
        
               | mindslight wrote:
               | The exact same way so many programmers can sign up for
               | and continue to work for Surveillance Valley?
               | 
               | If you want to say ACAB go right ahead - there's
               | certainly truth in that. But there is also a truth in
               | seeing that many cops got into it because they wanted to
               | help people, and you're going to have to work with that
               | if you ever want to fix the system.
        
               | CapstanRoller wrote:
               | >The exact same way so many programmers can sign up for
               | and continue to work for Surveillance Valley?
               | 
               | Your point has some merit, but there's a big difference
               | between being an engineer working with systems that _can_
               | be misused and waking up every morning ready to crack
               | people 's skulls (especially since those people are
               | usually impoverished, gender & sexual minorities,
               | marginalized in some other way, etc) or outright murder
               | them.
               | 
               | Yes, both people contribute to systemic violence in a
               | way, but I would argue that there is a vast gulf between
               | participating in society (which is mandatory) and being
               | at the tip of the spear of violent repression.
               | 
               | Imagine having coworkers who routinely committed murder
               | and received paid vacations for it.
        
           | snickerbockers wrote:
           | I don't even get how the hell copyright infringement became a
           | matter of criminal law. If you're distributing a product that
           | infringes on somebody's IP in a way which negatively impacts
           | their profits, that is (by which i mean "should be") a matter
           | of civil law and they can sue for damages. Why the hell
           | should law enforcement get involved at all?
        
         | theyeenzbeanz wrote:
         | There's a video of double dribble game glitch for the NES.
         | Fox/family guy decided to rip it for their show and copyright
         | struck the original video. So they don't even do anything to
         | corporations ripping of people's works.
        
         | hn_throawlles wrote:
         | let corporations exist without human participation... ahahahah
         | interesting times
        
         | nceqs3 wrote:
         | Piracy is wrong. The amount of coping people will do to justify
         | it is incredible to watch.
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | There's nothing wrong or bad about copying digital
           | information.
        
           | AlotOfReading wrote:
           | The first sale doctrine that libraries rely on doesn't exist
           | for digital media, so how would you propose build a "morally
           | acceptable" digital library?
           | 
           | * You can't do it by just buying ebooks because those don't
           | come with distribution rights. This is essentially what zlib
           | does, albeit with ebooks "donated" by others.
           | 
           | * You can't do it with interlibrary loan for the same reason.
           | 
           | * You can't do it by buying a distribution license because
           | some of the largest publishers simply don't sell those.
           | 
           | * You can't do it by purchasing physical books and scanning
           | them into digital equivalents ala controlled digital lending.
           | Internet archive tried that.
           | 
           | The current situation today requires either paying perpetual,
           | recurring licensing fees on every single ebook or piracy. If
           | all we have is the former, libraries will never be able to
           | stock anything beyond a small collection of topical books, as
           | is already the case at most local libraries.
        
       | zlibfan wrote:
       | zlibrary24tuxziyiyfr7zd46ytefdqbqd2axkmxm4o5374ptpc52fad.onion
        
         | justinclift wrote:
         | That's a different onion address to what they seem to be
         | publishing on their front page.
        
         | teddyh wrote:
         | Redirects to
         | loginzlib2vrak5zzpcocc3ouizykn6k5qecgj2tzlnab5wcbqhembyd.onion
        
           | justinclift wrote:
           | Ouch. That's sounds potentially nefarious. :(
        
             | jcrawfordor wrote:
             | "phishing" of this type is unfortunately a common problem
             | on Tor because the design of hidden services makes it very
             | difficult for a user to validate where they're connecting.
             | It's totally possible that this situation is not malicious
             | but it sure is sketchy and is similar to a lot of malicious
             | fronting that you can find on Tor for popular services. I
             | consider this a major defect of the hidden service design
             | but there's only so much motivation to address it.
        
           | snvzz wrote:
           | This is the URL I have in my notes.
        
       | lom wrote:
       | Doing my part of the streissand effect: https://annas-
       | archive.org/
        
         | gibspaulding wrote:
         | Thank you for this, I was not aware of this site. Bookmarked!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | 14 wrote:
       | I wonder if future generations will see this akin to the dark
       | ages where the churches tried to control what people could access
       | for information and burned books or punished those who published
       | information they did not like.
        
         | znpy wrote:
         | Sometimes it feels it's already becoming like that.
         | 
         | There always is a mob of some kind trying to censor something.
         | 
         | I won't make examples for obvious reasons.
        
       | generalizations wrote:
       | Seems to me that the storage TB/$ is rising at least slightly
       | faster than the total size of these kinds of archives. I wonder
       | how long it will be until we can feasibly keep personal copies of
       | zlib (and libgen, and scihub).
       | 
       | How big is the z library archive, anyway?
        
         | anonymouscaller wrote:
         | I'm not sure how large z-lib is, but LibGen is ~120TB. You can
         | pick up a 5TB external HDD on Amazon for ~$100, so it would
         | cost a good $2400 dollars for the raw storage costs if you
         | wanted to host it all yourself. You really have to wonder how
         | the owners fund all of this.
         | 
         | Edit: fixed my math
        
           | knodi123 wrote:
           | > You really have to wonder how the owners fund all of this.
           | 
           | Donation drive?
           | 
           | https://torrentfreak.com/z-library-raises-tens-of-
           | thousands-...
        
           | 83 wrote:
           | I run a 36 bay supermicro server I got for $900 on ebay which
           | could easily host all this. I buy used 6tb sas drives off
           | ebay for $26 a piece. They'd be even cheaper in bulk. That's
           | $4.33 a tb, or about $520 total. You'll want to add a handful
           | of drives for redundancy (we are talking used drives here)
           | but either way it's entirely possible to host this entire
           | thing including hardware for under 1500. Well within reason
           | for someone passionate about it.
        
             | edmundsauto wrote:
             | I've been speccing a home storage server in the 50-100tb
             | range and was considering this, but annual electricity
             | costs made it infeasible. How much power does a machine
             | like this consume?
             | 
             | My calculation off a Dell 2U was something like 195W idle -
             | ~900 kWH / year. I'm in California so paying 50 cents per
             | kWH, that would be ~$450 per year -- decided to scale back
             | to a low power tower with huge disks. More upfront, but
             | less annually. More disk drives (6tb vs 18tb) increased
             | that to the point where I figured it was better to have
             | fewer larger disks, even if they are pricier, because of
             | the cost to run them.
        
           | lostmsu wrote:
           | You made a mistake somewhere. 120/5*100 is only $2400
           | 
           | Also, there are plenty of drives with under $10/TB listed
           | here some looking legit: https://diskprices.com/
           | 
           | So it is actually only $1200
        
             | judge2020 wrote:
             | The server cost is going to be the problem here, since
             | you'll need SAS drives and a JBOD to house these hard
             | drives, especially if you want to run a raidx for
             | redundancy.
        
               | lostmsu wrote:
               | You can get 10 SATA ports for $40 with a PCI-E card on
               | Amazon. That's in addition to up to 6 the motherboard
               | would have.
        
               | zaroth wrote:
               | And the hard drives go where? But yeah, $3k would more
               | than fund such a server.
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | You can buy a server for $700 or so that has 36 sata
               | bays, ports, and PSU for all of it. I have two in my
               | house. They are loud AF.
        
               | lostmsu wrote:
               | > They are loud AF.
               | 
               | That probably is the real problem. Although you could
               | plop them in some separated utility space like a garage.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | Amazon has a 5 drive rack for $25.
               | 
               | You can also get dual-drive USB adapters for $20.
        
               | lostmsu wrote:
               | Define 7 has 14 drive bays.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | Libgen is mostly stored on ipfs.
        
         | okramcivokram wrote:
         | It's around 31TB right now, you can read more about it on
         | https://annas-blog.org/ or get the data from https://annas-
         | archive.org/
        
           | droopyEyelids wrote:
           | I had heard that Anna's archive is several years out of date
           | compared to zlibrary, do you know if thats still true? I
           | didn't see any explanation in a quick perusal of the links
           | you shared.
        
             | camdat wrote:
             | Seems like the last scrape was late last year:
             | https://annas-archive.org/datasets
        
       | ryan93 wrote:
       | Sad. I pirate 100% of my books. After i read them i purchase the
       | physical copy. I buy more books when i can try them first! Its
       | also enjoyable to have it open on your computer for when you have
       | a moment.
        
       | anonzzzies wrote:
       | Use the tor/onion ones, always fine.
        
         | yiamvino wrote:
         | downloading from onion exposes your location not always
         | advisable :)
        
           | bandrami wrote:
           | As opposed to using the clearweb?
        
           | jwilk wrote:
           | How come?
        
           | anonymouscaller wrote:
           | How? It's Tor, the Onion cannot see your IP.
        
             | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
             | It stands to reason that most entry and exit points are run
             | by the NSA. All they have to do is match streams via rate
             | limiting games to unmask.
        
               | ryeights wrote:
               | There are no exit relays when using hidden services
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | If they're running the hidden service or have a backdoor
               | it's just as compromised.
        
               | anigbrowl wrote:
               | Do you really think the NSA gives a shit about copyright?
               | They're looking for nuclear secrets and the next 9-11.
        
               | snvzz wrote:
               | That's some BS in a post Snowden world context.
        
               | anigbrowl wrote:
               | I don't think you seriously believe the NSA is trying to
               | trawl for copyright violations. Arguments require more
               | than just conflating some random facts and going 'there,
               | see'.
        
               | causi wrote:
               | Why would the NSA care if I pirate The Lusty Elves of
               | Cha'lifrax Volume 5?
        
               | stainablesteel wrote:
               | its a long story, but I became an NSA agent to stop
               | piracy of that book in particular
        
               | znpy wrote:
               | Thank god i only pirated volume 4 and 6 /s
        
       | vrglvrglvrgl wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | sergiomattei wrote:
       | Library Genesis seems to continue working... thankfully!
        
         | jhbadger wrote:
         | I wonder why they seem to have escaped? I always thought they
         | were better known than Z-Library (which forked off from them).
        
           | knutzui wrote:
           | I believe a significant difference between the two is that
           | Z-Library actively asks for donations in return for more
           | features, whereas Library Genesis does no such thing AFAICT.
        
           | Synaesthesia wrote:
           | I think Z-library attracted more.users because of its UI. I
           | also like Libgen
        
           | akiselev wrote:
           | IANAL but Z-Lib is run as a for-profit business which makes
           | it more of an open and shut case, especially if they're
           | hosting their own files (which I believe they were, to
           | implement that pay gate).
           | 
           | LibGen acts more like an archive that's hosted on IPFS which
           | eliminates a lot of the liability and can't realistically be
           | taken down. You can only download the books from the mirrors
           | LibGen links to and they're often just IP addresses so
           | there's no DNS zone to seize.
        
           | rabite wrote:
           | They are definitely not better known among normal people --
           | Z-Library was trending on TikTok massively (this is what
           | prompted the aggressive arrests and seizures lol)
           | 
           | It is possible that Libgen's proprietors are known to law
           | enforcement but never stepped within reach of Western legal
           | authorities. Certainly, had Z-Library's staff all stayed
           | within Russia, they never would have been arrested.
        
         | gibspaulding wrote:
         | I genuinely don't know what I'll do if/when library Genesis
         | goes down. The only thing worse would be losing Wikipedia.
         | 
         | Has anyone attempted to put together something like torrents of
         | the top 100Gb/1TB/10Tb etc of LibGen data? My dream would be to
         | mirror the whole thing, but that's well beyond my
         | budget/administrative abilities.
        
           | lkbm wrote:
           | I don't know about sorting by popularity, but there is an
           | effort to archive it all spread across a bunch of torrents:
           | 
           | http://freeread.org/torrents/
           | 
           | https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/ed9byj/library.
           | ..
        
       | cik wrote:
       | What bothers me, is the degree to which Z-library becomes the
       | only feasible way I can read books now. As I now live in Israel I
       | run into several headaches, and it's no longer feasible to buy
       | books.
       | 
       | * Amazon shut off bookdepository.com
       | 
       | * Amazon.com just won't ship many books here.
       | 
       | * Amazon and Kobo have both clawed back ebook purchases because I
       | don't have a US credit card. This is a frequent conversation
       | point amongst English and French speakers living here.
       | 
       | * Amazon shut down Kindle Unlimited accounts for those of us
       | living here.
       | 
       | * Libby (overdrive) shut off my grandma's Overdrive account
       | (Canada) and sister-in-law's Overdrive account (US) because we
       | had the nerve, to try and use the library.
       | 
       | Frankly I'm frustrated by this cat and mouse game. I keep trying
       | to purchase, eventually somehow do, and then have obstacles
       | thrown on my way. All this as a massive consumer of books.
       | 
       | The behaviour of the industry has literally driven my family, a
       | book buying family to embrace piracy. I would conservatively say
       | we easily spent 2-3K USD on books and ebooks annually. This
       | behaviour has reduced it to nearly zero.
        
         | brink wrote:
         | Could be an opportunity for a business?
        
           | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
           | The how matters. Apple was at one point able to mess with
           | perceptions of music industry. So was Netflix. Publishing
           | industry has a history to draw from and is unlikely to give
           | one a sweetheart deal without a lot of tracking and god knows
           | what other terms they can come up with.
           | 
           | I agree that it looks like it could be, but I honestly don't
           | know how to do it legally without forcing some market
           | participants into submission. Sadly, that requires backing of
           | a bigger company.
        
         | PentelicoMarble wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | zapdrive wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
           | justin66 wrote:
           | Without wanting to kick off what I bet would be a _really
           | great_ political argument involving the Israel /Palestine
           | problem, I just want to point out that story is fourteen
           | years old. The situation regarding importing books to Gaza
           | might be better or worse after fourteen years but I doubt if
           | it's the same.
        
           | rafaelrc wrote:
           | > 2009 Did you just search for "Israel books" and copied the
           | link for the first negative looking article for free
           | political karma?
        
           | wing-_-nuts wrote:
           | Given gaza's border with Egypt I'm not really sure it matters
           | what israel bans no?
        
         | akvadrako wrote:
         | I don't understand why you can't use libgen, which has quite an
         | extensive collection. Why only Z-library?
        
           | jraby3 wrote:
           | Way more books in z-library. When Z goes down it's painful to
           | go back to libgen.
        
           | rabite wrote:
           | Z-Library has more books. Z-Library contains every book
           | within Libgen plus books that have been uploaded by
           | Z-Library's userbase and never made it to Libgen.
           | 
           | Additionally, a huge thing for me that keeps me going back to
           | Z-Library repeatedly is working fulltext search for the
           | entire contents of their library. I have a number of things
           | that I search for that get a trickle of new scholarly review
           | every year, and Z-Library allows me to continually find new
           | references within the body of text to published books. I have
           | reviewed every alleged fulltext book search engine on earth
           | that does not violate intellectual property laws, and nothing
           | even comes close to the utility of Z-Library.
        
         | YeBanKo wrote:
         | Did Amazon remove your "purchases" from your device simply
         | because you no longer have a US card??
        
         | jraby3 wrote:
         | I also live in Israel and have the same exact problems. I
         | probably spend $5k a year on books but just cannot deal with
         | the headache of trying to purchase a book and failing. VPNs,
         | changing my iTunes Store location, just an absolutely
         | frustrating experience for absolutely no good reason.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | Yeah, it's stupid. Copyright industry pretty much defeats
         | itself with their licensing nonsense that nobody cares about.
         | Anything short of everything humanity has ever created in one
         | place at negligible costs fails to compete with copyright
         | infringement.
        
           | AlotOfReading wrote:
           | From the perspective of a consumer, the only real difference
           | between a library and zlib is that "checkouts" aren't time-
           | limited. So why aren't there any good, copyright-respecting
           | digital libraries out there? The simple answer is that
           | publishers either completely prohibit library usage of their
           | ebooks, or have such onerous licensing terms that libraries
           | can't afford to maintain large collections [1].
           | 
           | [1] https://doi.org/10.1080/01616846.2020.1782702
        
         | dudul wrote:
         | Same for me. I'm not buying books full of DRMs, that I can only
         | read on one specific device and what not. F-that.
         | 
         | And since I don't like pirating, I just read books in the
         | public domain.
        
           | vorpalhex wrote:
           | Can always do both. Buy a copy and then immediately pirate
           | it. Still fund your author but actually gain the ability to
           | use the thing.
        
             | dudul wrote:
             | No because I don't want to encourage the distribution
             | model.
        
         | Nifty3929 wrote:
         | Honest question: Why does Amazon (and others) restrict or block
         | services in Israel? I'm genuinely curious what their reasoning
         | might be.
        
         | SN76477 wrote:
         | "Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing
         | problem" - Gabe Newell
        
           | Aardwolf wrote:
           | It is! Steam is great service and makes me gladly pay for
           | games without any qualms.
        
             | internetter wrote:
             | Amazing what understanding this simple concept can do for
             | your platform
        
           | mmh0000 wrote:
           | This quote is incredibly true for me. I used to (like 2
           | decades ago) pirate everything. Then Steam came along, and it
           | is just so easy to buy things, and I don't have to worry
           | about malware keygens or no-cd hacks. I haven't pirated a
           | game since 2005.
           | 
           | I still pirate the shit out of music and movies simply
           | because I can goto TPB and have any movie I want, in 4K or
           | better, downloaded and ready-to-watch in under 15 minutes. Or
           | any album I want, in FLAC, in 3 minutes.
        
             | smegger001 wrote:
             | pretty much. the only game I have pirated in the last 10
             | years are some had bought several decades ago for windows
             | 98/98 and are ones that are not available on steam or GOG
             | that I had the CD/floppy disk for but my laptop doesn't
             | have a drive for either and would require a no-disc crack
             | to run anyway. Essentially abandonware that no one seems to
             | even know who own the IP for me to give my money to or if
             | they do don't care to bother making it available for me to
             | pay them.
        
           | xboxnolifes wrote:
           | It's so true. In the case where _price_ actually is the
           | issue, then it ceases to be a piracy problem, since they
           | likely couldn 't afford to pay anyway. No customer lost in
           | many cases.
        
         | masfuerte wrote:
         | Doesn't Israel have bookshops?
        
           | jraby3 wrote:
           | You cannot compare the ability to purchase over a million
           | books online to the selection at a bookstore. Plus my
           | personal preference is reading books on my phone, not as an
           | actual book.
        
           | mynameisvlad wrote:
           | Just like any country with an official language other than
           | English, I would expect them to have bookstores full of
           | Hebrew books, with a small section of English books that
           | you've probably already read.
           | 
           | The parent commenter even explicitly mentions "amongst
           | English and French speakers living here".
        
             | Barrin92 wrote:
             | any half decent bookstore will just order the books for you
             | and you'll get them a few days later. It's how I buy most
             | of my English books in a non-English speaking country.
             | Added benefit, weans yourself off the 'i have to have it
             | now' shopping culture
        
               | noduerme wrote:
               | This is the way. Did people forget you could do this,
               | with the advent of online sales? It costs nothing more,
               | it helps the store stay open, and it's one less sale for
               | Amazon.
        
               | toyg wrote:
               | "Added benefit, you are forced to do this thing that _I_
               | think is fashionable, while I don 't have to (and likely
               | will continue not to)."
               | 
               | In Italy we'd say _armiamoci e partite_ , "we'll get ammo
               | and you'll go fight".
        
               | Barrin92 wrote:
               | but that is literally what I do, which is why I
               | recommended it, I am in the same situation as the OP.
        
               | is_true wrote:
               | Sometimes the real problem is with customs not because of
               | the language
        
           | bwb wrote:
           | ya this... as far as i know they have plenty?
        
         | internetter wrote:
         | I also pirate things. Often. I don't want to, but I'm always
         | forced to by shitty policy.
         | 
         | Apple TV requires credit card verification to stream in certain
         | circumstances. That verification is broken for me... So despite
         | the fact I pay for Apple TV, I pirate when I'm away from home.
         | 
         | I'm not entitled to the rights of the Ebooks I bought. I guess
         | publishers can just change them[0], and god forbid I put my
         | book on my own EReader. What I tend to do is buy the book and
         | strip DRM. I'm privileged to even have the ability to buy the
         | book, I guess.
         | 
         | And buying ebooks? Terrible experience as well. At the book
         | store, you can just page through the book to see if it's what
         | you actually want. I wanted to buy a book on a development
         | topic I'm interested, and the ebook costs 70$. No problem _if_
         | it 's the book I want, but the preview is just not enough, so I
         | pirated it, then decided to buy it.
         | 
         | It really bothers me how consistently the best option is just
         | not to pay.
         | 
         | [0] https://goodereader.com/blog/kindle/ronald-dahl-ebooks-
         | being...
         | 
         | Sidenote: I think there's a potential market for a service that
         | allows local bookstores to sell ebooks. It sounds stupid, but I
         | absolutely love browsing the book store... Just when it comes
         | down to it I buy the ebook because it's a much nicer reading
         | experience. I'd love if I could go to a bookstore, take the
         | book to the counter, "buy it", and then the clerk takes the
         | book and credits the ebook my account.
         | 
         | Lately I've been playing around with connecting the digital and
         | physical worlds. I've been toying with smart windchimes for
         | notifications, christmas lights that tell me the weather, and
         | all sorts of little connections. It's beautiful.
        
           | nunuvit wrote:
           | I have legal, instant access to nearly every technical
           | publication I need in digital form, but I still illegally
           | download almost everything. It's much faster to get the docs,
           | I don't have to slog through crippled page navigation or
           | search, and they don't cut me off because I've opened too
           | many research papers in one day to see if any of them
           | actually answer my question.
           | 
           | The music and TV/film industries figured out how to get
           | people to pay. The print industry can figure it out too.
        
             | camjohnson26 wrote:
             | We're living in the dark ages of copyright policy.
        
               | nunuvit wrote:
               | Copyright policy needs improvement, but I don't think I
               | support any changes that would help much here.
        
               | internetter wrote:
               | > I don't think I support any changes
               | 
               | > that would help much here.
               | 
               | You don't support changes that would help improve
               | copyright policy?
        
               | nunuvit wrote:
               | Seriously?
               | 
               | here = my previous comment
        
               | internetter wrote:
               | Oops, sorry... got lost in the thread :)
        
           | pierat wrote:
           | Indeed!
           | 
           | I have 4 library bookshelves (7 foot tall ones). And they're
           | packed with books. *Bought* books.
           | 
           | But dealing with more current "online books" are a fraud.
           | They 'sell' these books, but in actuality they're rentals due
           | to DRM. I cant read them on Linux; I cant sell them; I cant
           | read them on my phone; I can't print past their arbitrary
           | print limits.
           | 
           | I have none of the same rights of these physical books.
           | 
           | So, yeah, I'll pirate.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | internetter wrote:
             | I'd say, maybe buy the physical book and pirate the Ebooks.
             | I haven't been the best at this... I just buy the ebooks
             | and strip them... But I suppose I could buy a physical book
             | locally and have a loaner for a friend, or give it to
             | charity
        
               | rrix2 wrote:
               | This is what I do.
               | 
               | The physical copy exists to be a conversation piece on a
               | shelf, to loan out, talk to friends about, not mind
               | losing to a family member who's visiting, etc.
               | 
               | The digital copy exists to mark up, index, search,
               | highlight, learn from, etc. If it's not on LibGen I'll
               | buy it on Kobo and strip it in to my library using Obok
               | DeDRM and an old ePaper reader I wouldn't want to use
               | otherwise, and then buy a physical copy of it's something
               | I'd want to share.
               | 
               | So often the books I loan out are "clean" and don't even
               | have a wrinkle in the spine but sometimes I'll go through
               | and dog-ear important passages or pencil-line particular
               | parts. I've had friends assume I hadn't actually read the
               | book until we pull out koreader and go over my
               | highlights.
        
               | sn0wf1re wrote:
               | Kill a tree just so that you can feel morally correct and
               | the author gets a 2C/ royalty? Naw, just pirate and don't
               | feel bad since apparently that is what publishers want
               | you to do[0]. Maybe buy the author a coffee if you ever
               | run into them.
               | 
               | [0] based on their actions it sure seems like this is the
               | case.
        
               | B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
               | > Kill a tree
               | 
               | You know that paper producers own land where they farm
               | trees for pulp, right?
               | 
               | It's not like they're making deserts out there randomly
               | chopping down trees.
        
               | ipaddr wrote:
               | Those forest they own came with trees that would be
               | preserved if they didn't exist.
               | 
               | They do make deserts out of forests when they clearcut. A
               | lot of land is owned by others (governments, native
               | tribes) and permits are used to extract the pulp
        
               | dreamcompiler wrote:
               | Trees grown for paper pulp regrow quickly and are farmed.
               | If you know of old-growth forests that have recently been
               | clearcut for paper pulp, please cite a source.
        
               | throwaway675309 wrote:
               | _" Kill a tree just so that you can feel morally
               | correct"_
               | 
               | Because the cost of manufacturing a hardware eReader and
               | keeping it charged doesn't have a corresponding carbon
               | footprint.
               | 
               |  _" Maybe buy the author a coffee if you ever run into
               | them"_
               | 
               | Because that'll keep them solvent.
        
           | thinkmassive wrote:
           | > No problem if it's the book I want, but the preview is just
           | not enough
           | 
           | Manning has a decent solution to this. You can browse the
           | entire book, but only a small section of it at a time is
           | "descrambled" in the live view.
           | 
           | On more than one occasion I've used this to look up some
           | specific topic, which was immediately viewable (and unblocked
           | me on that problem), then gone on to purchase the book
           | because I know it's high quality and I'm likely to refer to
           | it in the future for other reasons.
           | 
           | https://www.manning.com/
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | I wonder if someone in the USA could setup a "piracy
           | forgiveness service" where they accept amazon orders of books
           | and movies and just immediately shred them.
        
           | gameshot911 wrote:
           | > I don't want to, but I'm always forced to by shitty policy.
           | 
           | "forced"
           | 
           | You say that as if your hands are bound.
           | 
           | Creators have an intrinsic right to distribute their work as
           | they see fit.
           | 
           | You do not have an intrinsic right to it.
           | 
           | If you don't like their terms, then your right is to not
           | consume it. NOT to steal it.
           | 
           | If you decide to thieve, then that's your call.
           | 
           | Just don't pretend it's being "forced" upon you.
        
             | internetter wrote:
             | Who defines "thievery"? The RIAA? If I buy something, I
             | expect full rights to it. Dead simple. I pay for the
             | content, and _then_ I pirate it because the distributer
             | somehow invested millions of dollars (instead of
             | distributing to authors, mind you) into making a less
             | consumer friendly platform than piracy.
             | 
             | Not to mention, internet piracy is not thievery. The only
             | thing in limited quantity is the silicon that enables it.
             | 
             | If piracy did not exist I would likely not buy these things
             | in the first place, because the stupid restrictions mean I
             | can't consume what I paid for. In that way, my hand is
             | indeed forced.
             | 
             | Tell me, who is being cheated here?
        
           | BlackjackCF wrote:
           | I think it's wild that publishers don't do something like pay
           | an extra dollar if you're buying the hard copy and also get
           | the ebook.
           | 
           | It's also wild that the ebook is often as expensive as a hard
           | copy.
        
           | scarmig wrote:
           | Put a unique QR code in each physical book in some
           | standardized location (probably the publisher's imprint
           | page). Then, someone can scan it to purchase it. The
           | bookstore then gets a cut of the purchase. It would even work
           | browsing a friend's bookshelf or a library.
           | 
           | Seems like it'd be a win for consumers, publishers, and
           | bookstores all alike, and it doesn't seem too complicated to
           | implement technically.
        
             | contingencies wrote:
             | It's called an ISBN. That's the barcode on all books
             | printed since the latter half of the 20th century.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISBN
        
               | birdman3131 wrote:
               | ISBN's are not unique.
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | They're nearly-unique; there probably aren't more than
               | ten books sharing the same ISBN.
        
               | icedchai wrote:
               | Perhaps the previous poster means unique per _physical
               | copy_?
        
               | scarmig wrote:
               | Per physical copy, indeed. That's what would allow
               | attribution of the sale to the store.
               | 
               | Even a QR code that provided a link that would allow an
               | easy purchase for the ISBN would be great for publisher
               | and the customer. It would, however, not be appealing to
               | bookstores, since it just means the customer comes in,
               | browses, and purchases it online, cutting out the
               | bookstore that was playing a critical role in the process
               | and cannibalizing its own sales.
               | 
               | You could create a bookstore-and-ISBN tuple that would
               | also allow attribution without uniquely identifying each
               | physical book. Probably improves privacy marginally
               | (though it would provide a permanent indicator of which
               | bookstore it was purchased from), but with the downside
               | that it complicates things behind the scenes; what if one
               | bookstore acquires another bookstore's inventory? And a
               | bookstore ordering a new book would have to have its own
               | individual print run.
        
           | pnzrdrgoon wrote:
           | Tabletop RPG publishers are making inroads towards making
           | digital versions of books available with purchase of physical
           | books from indie games shops. Whenever I'm looking for a new
           | TTRPG book I always first ask my Friendly Local Game Shops if
           | they're in the Bits & Mortar program and it influences where
           | I purchase. Even if the shop isn't part of the program many
           | of the publishers will now send a PDF if you send them a
           | picture of the receipt (shout out to Free League Publishing
           | for being awesome about this).
           | 
           | https://www.bits-and-mortar.com/
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | Why not Library Genesis?
         | 
         | Z-Library always left a bad taste in my mouth since they used
         | Library Genesis's entire book collection, but then never
         | contributed additional books in their collection back to
         | Library Genesis. Which just felt like being a bad neighbor.
         | 
         | But maybe I'm missing something to the story here?
        
           | internetter wrote:
           | Z-Library is easier to use. I've always struggled to find
           | what I need on libgen. Now we have Anna's Archive[0] though,
           | which is wonderful
           | 
           | [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna's_Archive
        
         | kennend3 wrote:
         | Adding to this, region restrictions on video content.
         | 
         | There are TV shows which are made in Canada, and unavailable on
         | amazon prime in Canada, yet are available on amazon prime in
         | the US?
         | 
         | In Canada, amazon prime tries to push me to getting yet another
         | subscription?
         | 
         | There are also shows Amazon prime owns and refuses to broadcast
         | in Canada? You might be able to say that prime doesnt have
         | redist rights on some shows, but their own "prime originals"?
         | 
         | After fragmenting the market like this, what did they expect
         | people would do?
        
           | Spoom wrote:
           | In my experience, usually Prime content is on Crave in
           | Canada. But a whole lot of Canada just has a pirate Kodi box
           | anyway.
        
           | jdougan wrote:
           | To be fair, that is probably partially fallout from the
           | Canadian content regulations and possibly other law regarding
           | corporate ownership. Not sure because it has been over two
           | decades since I was current in that stuff.
        
             | transcriptase wrote:
             | They actually just passed a new law last week to legislate
             | even more CanCon meddling on online streaming sites,
             | including YouTube and social media feeds.
             | 
             | Canada subsidizes an entertainment industry that mainly
             | produces things nobody wants to watch, so they're
             | regulating companies to algorithmically force it on
             | Canadians.
             | 
             | The amazing shows and movies that have come out of Canada
             | in the last 20 years are popular because they're good...
             | not because of some visibility issue with the rest of the
             | fodder from companies that spend more on admin related to
             | lucrative tax breaks and grants than they do actually
             | producing content.
        
               | jdougan wrote:
               | My impression back then was that the TV cancon rules were
               | a disaster, and the music ones may have helped more than
               | hurt, after the first 10 years or so.
        
         | pid-1 wrote:
         | I learned bookbinding, now I print my own books and make pretty
         | hardcovers as a hobby. Highly recommend.
        
         | dilap wrote:
         | Yeah, I started out buying stuff. The DRM eventually inevitably
         | fucks up and steals the item from me.
         | 
         | Fuck it, they've failed to uphold their end of the bargain --
         | now I pirate, unless there is DRM-free content available for
         | purchase.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _Libby (overdrive) shut off my grandma 's Overdrive account
         | (Canada) and sister-in-law's Overdrive account (US) because we
         | had the nerve, to try and use the library._
         | 
         | Did the library state that was the reason? I got a notice from
         | my library that it's switching to another system because
         | Overdrive is going out of business.
        
         | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
         | > * Amazon and Kobo have both clawed back ebook purchases
         | because I don't have a US credit card. This is a frequent
         | conversation point amongst English and French speakers living
         | here.
         | 
         | Kobo has an option to pay via PayPal, don't they? What you can
         | do is change the Billing Information on your account so that
         | your city/state/zipcode is somewhere in the United States, then
         | save it--you don't actually have to give them credit card info.
         | But Kobo will think you're in the US. Then try to make a
         | purchase, and at the checkout screen, pay via PayPal. I don't
         | think Kobo validates the origin of the PayPal payment (at least
         | not according to other members of the MobileRead forums that
         | have used this method). It should go through and purchase the
         | book.
         | 
         | The other option is to get some friends to purchase Kobo gift
         | cards on your behalf and add them to your account so that you
         | have a balance. You can then use the billing info trick I
         | mentioned above to change to whatever country you want, and buy
         | your books. I use the gift card method quite frequently to buy
         | books from Kobo UK store when they're not available in the US.
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | The point is that you should not have to hack your way
           | through this or that payment system, because sooner or later
           | the hack will be blocked and you will lose access even to
           | stuff you paid for. It's not even a hypothetical, the parent
           | poster brings clear examples of this happening multiple
           | times.
        
       | prenoob wrote:
       | Just dropping my 2c here. A lot of the debate i read on this
       | article verges on the subject of piracy as in copyrights
       | infringement. Let's not forget that these sites also carry an
       | enormous amount of old, uncopyrighted, obscure, impossible to
       | find texts that would otherwise be lost forever and that is a
       | service that they pay for and ultimately benefits all of
       | humanity.
        
         | is_true wrote:
         | Books that don't make sense financially for bookstores
        
       | garganzol wrote:
       | To add insult to the injury, SS-Library would be another fitting
       | name to avoid domain seizures. May be unrelated though, but they
       | should think about rebranding as some letter combinations
       | unfortunately became poisonous and probably became contributing
       | factors for warrants.
        
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