[HN Gopher] Anonymous Tor Phone
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Anonymous Tor Phone
        
       Author : h0ek
       Score  : 123 points
       Date   : 2023-05-02 14:11 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (0ut3r.space)
 (TXT) w3m dump (0ut3r.space)
        
       | acqbu wrote:
       | > we can find some homeless guy, and for bottle of whisky tell
       | him to buy it for us in some pawn shop
       | 
       | this and a whole lot more
       | 
       | it's amazing what some of the guys in my area will do for a
       | bottle of whisky
       | 
       | I guess you SF-based techies are even more blessed than the rest
       | of us
        
       | ceva wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | joshmarlow wrote:
         | Are there any better options than Tor? Can you link to anything
         | about explaining/critiquing the anonymity?
        
           | grrdotcloud wrote:
           | Graffiti?
           | 
           | My question is always, what are you trying to accomplish? If
           | you don't want someone to know who you are, why would anyone
           | listen to you? Considering AI, voice and text, how do I know
           | I'm talking to you the you I want to talk to?
           | 
           | In the past when I worked for people with questionable ethics
           | they would often just schedule a lunch and discussing a noisy
           | restaurant their dealings. If they had adversarial contacts,
           | they would have lawyers send letters.
           | 
           | Public private keys are great yet there's still no way to
           | verify the source if the key is compromised.
           | 
           | I suppose, if I really wanted to send a message to someone, I
           | would encode the message, with a shared secret or use of
           | language, acting as a signature, and they would know it as
           | me.
           | 
           | My family members have verbal and nonverbal cues, noises,
           | phrases that will tell them they're in danger or to bring a
           | weapon or if they are under duress.
           | 
           | I recently received my text message from an unknown number. I
           | knew exactly who it was. I had the context and history
           | allowing me to validate that the only person who would
           | message me as such is a fellow HN reader.
        
           | johnisgood wrote:
           | i2p?
        
         | mtmail wrote:
         | I'm interested in your insights (after reading the blog post).
        
       | cosmojg wrote:
       | Huh, I hadn't considered that the rise of 5G, and faster internet
       | more generally, would make "Tor phones" viable. The cost of using
       | Tor as an everyday VPN, on any device, will soon be negligible
       | (ignoring the usual server-side shenanigans that Tor users will
       | probably have to deal with until Tor becomes more popular and
       | more exit nodes come online).
        
         | costco wrote:
         | I'm not an expert I think the main barrier to Tor speeds now is
         | # of nodes and concentration of nodes (should have more nodes
         | outside of OVH, BuyVM, Flokinet and M247...). Worth noting too
         | that 5G also makes triangulation substantially more accurate
         | due to higher tower density.
         | 
         | Also I feel like the Cloudflare problem and reCAPTCHA hell on
         | Tor are stunting Tor adoption and I'm pretty sad about that.
         | Higher speeds wouldn't necessarily solve those problems.
        
       | garyfirestorm wrote:
       | Just yesterday there was a discussion about location services[1]
       | If you connect your phone to a cell network, just by
       | triangulation they got your home address...someone also mentioned
       | that the phone will connect to nearest towers without a sim for
       | 911 services... I guess is there hardware or software that can
       | force the cellular modem to connect to a single tower of your
       | choice?
       | 
       | [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35779816
        
         | kotaKat wrote:
         | Every tower essentially allows an unauthenticated device to log
         | on as an 'emergency' user to a special 'emergency' APN and
         | grants an IMS connection to the emergency number (112/911/etc).
         | See: https://www.sharetechnote.com/html/IMS_SIP_PSAP.html
         | ("Emergency Call without Normal Registration")
         | 
         | My CBRS test networks all have their cells configured to
         | explicitly _deny_ an emergency bearer request for life-safety
         | purposes. As soon as they see the deny they keep moving on to
         | the commercial networks.
        
           | kornhole wrote:
           | Is it possible to configure a device with usual SIM to deny
           | or not connect to PNAS? Any info would be appreciated.
        
         | theK wrote:
         | Source selection logic most often is completely in firmware and
         | as most antenna firmware are closely kept binary blobs that the
         | soc comes preinstalled with.
         | 
         | I would wager to say that, while possible to do, it is
         | practically impossible for the average joe unless they own a
         | Librem 5 which afaik is the only one with an open source
         | antenna firmware.
        
       | moremetadata wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | loufe wrote:
       | I sincerely doubt this will go anywhere. I think any serious
       | options will be shut down. Consider this option a couple years
       | ago:
       | 
       | https://insightcrime.org/news/brief/canadian-company-custom-...
        
       | zgk7iqea wrote:
       | So in summary:
       | 
       | - you unlocked your bootloader w/o re-locking it again - insecure
       | 
       | - you used a phone that doesn't receive OEM updates anymore -
       | insecure
       | 
       | - you use firefox over tor: no sandbox, very unique fingerprint
       | 
       | - all of the device's traffic is routed over tor - any
       | authentication on a non-privacy service compromises your
       | anonymity
       | 
       | I don't think this is a good setup.
        
         | mouzogu wrote:
         | - all of the device's traffic is routed over tor - any
         | authentication on a non-privacy service compromises your
         | anonymity
         | 
         | how does it compromise anonymity if you sign in to a burner
         | gmail account over tor?
        
           | zgk7iqea wrote:
           | It doesn't. I think it's clear that this only is a problem
           | when using accounts associated with you.
        
         | costco wrote:
         | > - all of the device's traffic is routed over tor - any
         | authentication on a non-privacy service compromises your
         | anonymity
         | 
         | Wouldn't this would depend on if you had a stream isolation
         | setup? Pretty sure Tails/Tor Browser do this, so you can have a
         | signed in Facebook tab and another tab open and the two won't
         | be linked. I don't think the guide here accounts for that
         | though.
        
           | zgk7iqea wrote:
           | Yes that is possible, but not with setup described.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | Cheeeetah wrote:
         | - Unlock bootloader as phone manufacturers should not be
         | trusted. Even if the ROMs manufacturers provide are open-
         | source, the firmwares are usually not.
         | 
         | - Unlocking bootloader also makes the phone receive secure
         | updates again.
         | 
         | - Firefox is a great browser that can resist fingerprints. The
         | sandbox function on Android should be achieved by restrictions
         | on permissions and storage isolations.
         | 
         | - Traffic over Tor is also much better than just over
         | telecommunicator. A small fraction of non-privacy nodes is also
         | not a problem as routes are always changed, and how can a
         | organize contorl most nodes?
        
           | ewoodrich wrote:
           | I recently installed GrapheneOS on an old Pixel and
           | recommended practice was to relock the bootloader after
           | unlocking it and installing a custom OS, which is supported
           | on Pixels.
        
           | zgk7iqea wrote:
           | An unlocked bootloader makes the phone vastly more insecure
           | (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35790499). Phone
           | firmware cannot be fully open-source nowadays due to
           | manufacturer restrictions. Even the most open-source Android
           | fork will still have to include binary blobs from e.g. modem
           | manufacturers.
           | 
           | Additionally, the updates that the forked OS provides don't
           | include firmware updates for essential parts like the modem
           | (this is also the reason why phone updates are not available
           | in the first place). So it's essentially a security theatre.
           | 
           | Firefox doesn't use per-site isolation, doesn't use process
           | sandboxing and - on top of that has a JIT, so there's W^X
           | violations. Normal app sandboxing via Android permissions is
           | not sufficient for something as complex as a browser. The
           | potential for possible exploits inherently is massive. Other
           | browsers (chromium-based) like Vanadium have very
           | sophisticated sandboxing, so there's no reason to use
           | something inferior.
           | 
           | Traffic over tor is good, but shouldn't be used with
           | authenticated services, as it deanonymizes your connection.
           | Instead, it should only be used for specific
           | (unauthenticated) actions, like browsing news.
        
         | kornhole wrote:
         | As long as you keep device in your possession with a quick
         | option to wipe it, I believe that mitigates the unlocked
         | bootloader. Graphene locks the bootloader as a more secure
         | option.
         | 
         | I tried Invizible Pro and do not see option for split
         | tunnelling. I suppose Orbot may be a better choice if
         | authentication to one of those services is needed.
        
           | zgk7iqea wrote:
           | An unlocked bootloader disables verified Boot, which makes
           | your phone vulnerable to rollback attacks.
           | 
           | In doing so, it also disables integrity checks, thus making
           | persistence (even without rollback) a lot easier for a
           | potential attacker.
           | 
           | So your phone becomes a lot more vulnerable to all kinds of
           | attacks, not just physical ones.
           | 
           | See also: the Android Documentation for verified boot (https:
           | //source.android.com/docs/security/features/verifiedbo...)
        
             | realusername wrote:
             | This only works if you trust the ROM though, otherwise I'd
             | say it's even worse than no protection since it can prevent
             | you to clean-up the device.
        
               | zgk7iqea wrote:
               | If you can't trust your OS, trying to anonymize it is
               | useless.
               | 
               | Verified boot doesn't prevent you cleaning up the device.
               | Modern android phones have wonderfully sophisticated per-
               | file disk encryption.
               | 
               | In pixels, the decryption key is stored in a secure
               | enclave (Titan M). If you want to wipe the device safely,
               | you can just reset the OS. (This deletes the decryption
               | key from the secure enclave which turns all user data on
               | the user data partition into random junk).
               | 
               | GrapheneOS for example gets all of these things right. It
               | is possible to make your phone secure, but not by
               | permanently unlocking the bootloader and rooting the
               | device.
        
               | realusername wrote:
               | > If you can't trust your OS, trying to anonymize it is
               | useless.
               | 
               | Well yeah, welcome to the modern smartphone era. Those
               | protections are useless or counter-productive because the
               | base ROM has already spyware backed into it.
               | 
               | I don't know why some people consider a chinese no-name
               | pre-installed rom more secured than lineage os but that's
               | not how it works.
               | 
               | > In pixels, the decryption key is stored in a secure
               | enclave (Titan M). If you want to wipe the device safely,
               | you can just reset the OS. (This wipes the decryption key
               | from the secure enclave which turns all user data on the
               | user data partition into random junk.
               | 
               | None of that matters if your data is just sent to Google
               | anyways.
        
               | zgk7iqea wrote:
               | > Well yeah, welcome to the modern smartphone era. Those
               | protections are useless or counter-productive because the
               | base ROM has already spyware backed into it.
               | 
               | If you assume this to be correct, then there's no point
               | in attempting to make your phone private. Privacy isn't
               | possible without security.
               | 
               | > None of that matters if your data is just sent to
               | Google anyways.
               | 
               | when you use a custom ROM, that's not necessarily true.
               | But using a custom ROM doesn't necessarily mean you have
               | to permanently unlock your bootloader, so that argument
               | doesn't make sense.
        
               | realusername wrote:
               | > If you assume this to be correct, then there's no point
               | in attempting to make your phone private. Privacy isn't
               | possible without security.
               | 
               | You have it the other way around, security starts with
               | privacy at its absolute minimum. If data is sent to a
               | third party every time you tap something on the phone,
               | you are using an insecure phone, regardless of what
               | complex hardware they are using.
               | 
               | > But using a custom ROM doesn't necessarily mean you
               | have to permanently unlock your bootloader, so that
               | argument doesn't make sense.
               | 
               | True, depends on the phone though, some of them cannot be
               | locked again and there's no way to completely fix those
               | phones with a better ROM.
        
               | zgk7iqea wrote:
               | I disagree. You can't keep data away from others when it
               | isn't safe. Security doesn't necessarily imply privacy
               | (as demonstrated by your argument), but making something
               | private is impossible without making it secure. How can
               | you hide something in your house when it doesn't have a
               | lock and anyone can just walk in? Likewise, how is your
               | phone private if, say anyone can unlock it?
               | 
               | > True, depends on the phone though, some of them cannot
               | be locked again and there's no way to completely fix
               | those phones with a better ROM.
               | 
               | Then you shouldn't use those phones for a secure setup. I
               | think we can agree on that. But the author of the article
               | used a phone that is capable of locking the bootloader
               | with alternate ROMs.
        
               | realusername wrote:
               | > How can you hide something in your house when it
               | doesn't have a lock and anyone can just walk in?
               | Likewise, how is your phone private if, say anyone can
               | unlock it?
               | 
               | Security requires privacy. A phone without privacy is
               | insecure by design, insecure because it leaks data.
               | 
               | And the biggest danger to consumers nowadays isn't a
               | bootrom exploit but that their location, card payments
               | and data profile is sent to advertisers.
        
       | bitL wrote:
       | Isn't it better to have a bunch of relay phones glued to random
       | cars and making calls via them?
        
         | h0ek wrote:
         | Hahah, awesome idea. In the past I wanted to stick phones to
         | the trees in the random forest and made my own onion mobile
         | phone network. But cars are better because moving all the time.
        
           | bitL wrote:
           | When I think about it, rental e-scooters would be probably
           | even better.
        
         | minsc_and_boo wrote:
         | We used to joke that a drone mesh network to a local Starbucks
         | was the best opsec.
        
         | jancsika wrote:
         | Even better-- do a cron job for the requests you want to make
         | on the end-point phone.
         | 
         | Glue _that_ to a car, turn it on, and take off.
         | 
         | After a long enough time that the battery has died, ride your
         | skateboard up to retrieve your anon filez.
        
       | h0ek wrote:
       | Thanks all for great comments. I am glad that this silly article
       | made such a lot of bad and good ideas. So many anger and so funny
       | stuff. And most important so many great suggestions and points to
       | discuss that I didn't address. Please remember that this is just
       | an article and not a recipe for being totally anonymous, and that
       | each person can accept, or not some risk. I showed my way. Which
       | is not best, but works for me. I am not a genius or person who
       | tells you how you should act or do stuff. But I was judged by
       | many. Its funny how things in the internet works and how quickly
       | people says opinions, good and bad and even shitty. And sometimes
       | how seriously take everything :) it's always big wave of good
       | feedback mixed with hate when some of my article get on main page
       | of hacker news :) I will review all comments and update article
       | in next two weeks with all good ideas. Thank you all. Even people
       | who wish me death by burning at the stake. Lol.
        
       | pierat wrote:
       | How are you hiding the fact that you have a transmitter uniquely
       | signing and encrypting a unique certificate (sim) along with your
       | serial of device (IMEI)?
       | 
       | And there's the whole cell baseband has root to your phone issue.
       | 
       | This feels like a lost cause, TBH if you use cell providers.
       | 
       | Now this could be useful with wifi calling and anonymous voip
       | services. But using Tor is destined to leave you in the internet
       | shitcan, primarily thanks to ilk like cloudflare.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | itscrush wrote:
         | The article is worth an honest read, the author states they are
         | not using sim in this case.
        
         | yunohn wrote:
         | > How are you hiding the fact
         | 
         | > I resigned totally from using phone as phone itself, I have
         | no physical number, or sim card, and I can only communicate
         | securely using various channels like apps or emails.
         | 
         | Honestly, sometimes you should read the article.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | > How are you hiding the fact that you have a transmitter
         | uniquely signing and encrypting a unique certificate (sim)
         | along with your serial of device (IMEI)?
         | 
         | The page doesn't want to load for me right now, but that may or
         | may not be a problem depending on their threat model. If none
         | of the things you're connecting to can see anything but a tor
         | connection, and the cell network can see exactly where you are
         | and who you are but not what you're talking to, how much of a
         | problem is that?
         | 
         | > And there's the whole cell baseband has root to your phone
         | issue.
         | 
         | So use one of the modems that just connects to the main
         | processor over USB. I see this repeated a lot, but this
         | particular problem is entirely solvable.
        
       | errantmind wrote:
       | I've used both LineageOS and GrapheneOS and the latter would have
       | been my choice for security purposes as its entire focus is on
       | privacy and security.
        
         | bitL wrote:
         | How does GrapheneOS help with broadband chip firmware bypassing
         | whatever it wants to prevent? All cellphones are rooted by
         | default, just not by their owners.
        
         | h0ek wrote:
         | I need to take a look and test GrapheneOS. Thanks for comment.
        
           | nibbleshifter wrote:
           | The only downside is: extremely limited device support by
           | design (ease of support).
           | 
           | Has tonnes of hardening though.
        
       | costco wrote:
       | A 2022 iPhone SE with an anonymous eSim like
       | https://silent.link/, an MDM profile that disables most of the
       | things
       | [here](https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/restrictions-
       | for-...), a long alphanumeric password, Signal/some other secure
       | data only messenger app with auto-deleting messages used solely
       | for communication, and an OS that you update regularly is
       | probably better than this. But I like that you wrote out
       | everything descriptively and most of the advice is good.
       | 
       | - Rooting is definitely ill-advised but you note this
       | 
       | - I would not trust the security of most Android phones against
       | phone unlock kits like Cellebrite
        
         | kornhole wrote:
         | Is there a way to make an Iphone anonymous? TMK you must always
         | log in with an Apple ID. Information including location is
         | always sent to the biggest corporation in the world.
        
       | ldehaan wrote:
       | Haha "Anonymous" to your neighbor maybe, if they don't work for
       | 5Is or a 3 letter agency, or Google, or Facebook, or the ccp or
       | ... tor is compromised, you didn't Not get caught, you're not a
       | target yet.
        
         | costco wrote:
         | People who have used Tor who have been deanonymized in every
         | single case that we are aware of made other mistakes ("altoid",
         | "pimp_alex_91@hotmail.com", etc) or the vulnerability was in an
         | outdated version of Tor Browser (basically Firefox). Of course
         | you can say there was parallel construction, maybe there was in
         | some cases, but if they didn't make those other mistakes there
         | would be no case that could be brought against them because no
         | one is going to be convicted on the basis of some probabilistic
         | attack against Tor that the government doesn't want to reveal
         | to begin with.
        
         | lallysingh wrote:
         | Yeah of course it is. And your phone mic is always listening.
        
           | lnsru wrote:
           | How do you think Siri works? I have a hint to you: it does
           | not scan your brain waves.
        
         | orbital-decay wrote:
         | You're the second person in this thread to claim that Tor is
         | compromised, without giving any explanation. This isn't
         | productive discussion. Care to elaborate in what exact manner
         | is Tor compromised? Bonus points for not hitting anything from
         | the known list of speculative attacks. [1]
         | 
         | [1] https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Speculative_Tor_Attacks
        
           | DethNinja wrote:
           | It is just common sense.
           | 
           | Traffic correlation: All the large state actors are well
           | capable of recording every single IP transaction between
           | devices. You can create detailed correlation maps from these
           | transactions. Considering that this wouldn't cost much for
           | state actors to implement, one has to assume such traffic
           | correlation systems currently exists.
           | 
           | Node compromise: It costs less than 5 dollars a month to
           | create a TOR node. There are currently ~8000 TOR nodes/relays
           | in existence. That is 40k USD per month (at most). Do you
           | really believe state actors can't afford 40k USD per month to
           | compromise the vast majority of TOR nodes? Even a single
           | millionaire can compromise the vast majority of TOR nodes.
           | 
           | Another problem is that TOR is an outdated privacy tech.
           | considering modern state actor capabilities. Mixer networks +
           | network jitter is necessary to protect privacy at this stage,
           | yet no such project exists yet.
           | 
           | TOR is not a good option for privacy. Currently only valid
           | option for privacy is external Wi-Fi jacking and ensuring you
           | don't send any private info like CPUID.
           | 
           | Or alternatively, you can hack routers/computers and put your
           | own TOR nodes in them, then you can only use these known
           | nodes.
        
             | orbital-decay wrote:
             | Common sense is not the same as actual understanding. Tor
             | is not limited to exit nodes, the most valuable thing is
             | the onion network with millions of users. Both are being
             | actively monitored for anomalies by the devs, with multiple
             | thwarted attempts to subvert it in the past.
             | 
             |  _> TOR is not a good option for privacy. Currently only
             | valid option for privacy is external Wi-Fi jacking and
             | ensuring you don 't send any private info like CPUID._
             | 
             | What is known for sure is that high profile drug dealers
             | are using it without being caught for years. All known
             | cases are related to either poor OPSEC, client/server
             | 0-days, classic real-life investigations, or known attacks
             | Tor can't protect from (correlation of the large amounts of
             | onion server traffic, for example, which is not that easy
             | as you make it sound). It is entirely possible that
             | somebody was caught using unknown or unavoidable attacks,
             | but no such case is known for sure at this time.
             | 
             |  _> Mixer networks + network jitter is necessary to protect
             | privacy at this stage, yet no such project exists yet._
             | 
             | Tor does use packet shuffling and delays to protect from
             | timing attacks to an extent. It's less advanced than I2P
             | which also mixes the traffic, but has a much larger client
             | pool and a unified browser used by nearly everyone, which
             | provides users with huge buckets to blend into. There are
             | also several delayed onion message services available.
             | 
             | Of course it is susceptible to certain kinds of attacks you
             | have to be aware about. This isn't the same as "Tor doesn't
             | provide anonymity" or "Tor is compromised".
        
             | m4jor wrote:
             | Just more FUD being spewed from someone who knows nothing
             | about Tor.
             | 
             | It's Tor not TOR FYI.
             | 
             | https://support.torproject.org/about/why-is-it-called-tor/
             | 
             | > Note: even though it originally came from an acronym, Tor
             | is not spelled "TOR". Only the first letter is capitalized.
             | In fact, we can usually spot people who haven't read any of
             | our website (and have instead learned everything they know
             | about Tor from news articles) by the fact that they spell
             | it wrong.
             | 
             | We all know which one you fall under.
             | 
             | > Node compromise: It costs less than 5 dollars a month to
             | create a TOR node. There are currently ~8000 TOR
             | nodes/relays in existence. That is 40k USD per month (at
             | most). Do you really believe state actors can't afford 40k
             | USD per month to compromise the vast majority of TOR nodes?
             | Even a single millionaire can compromise the vast majority
             | of TOR nodes.
             | 
             | As someone who has ran a Tor exit node for 5+ years, lolol
             | at this statement. Pure ignorance.
        
               | anonlamb wrote:
               | [dead]
        
         | ARandomerDude wrote:
         | > tor is compromised
         | 
         | Is it?
        
           | garyfirestorm wrote:
           | [1] https://threatpost.com/motion-filed-asking-fbi-to-
           | disclose-t... [2]
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34412080
        
             | m4jor wrote:
             | None of those have to do with vulns in Tor. Try again.
        
             | orbital-decay wrote:
             | These are just 0-days in the Tor Browser/Firefox, not Tor.
             | While in practice Tor Browser cannot be decoupled from the
             | network (it provides users with large enough crowd to blend
             | into), it can be surrounded with additional security
             | layers. If you're a high-value target worthy of wasting a
             | 0-day on you, running Tor Browser on a general-purpose
             | system might be a bad idea; there are distros like Whonix
             | specifically tailored for secure communication - they are
             | far less vulnerable to this kind of attack.
        
       | calvinmorrison wrote:
       | The #1 thing you can do right now is to add a application based
       | firewall to your android phone. It emulates a VPN so all traffic
       | is routed through it, then implements firewall rules based on
       | application, IP address, etc. You can whitelist, blacklist, etc.
       | Most of my apps have zero network access and don't need it. For
       | those that do - I block them from sending to advertising domains.
       | Imperfect but better than nothing.
       | 
       | Android conspicuously doesn't include 'network access' as a
       | permission, for what I can only assume is nefarious reasons.
       | There's no reason my Calculator app needs to phone home anywhere.
       | 
       | The problem though really lies in the network. LTE is GPS
       | trackable inherently. If you want to eliminate that problem, a
       | Pager can work quite well if you are interested in receive only.
        
         | Xeoncross wrote:
         | LineageOS, GrapheneOS and CalyxOS all have network and firewall
         | restrictions on applications. You can even limit by certain
         | networks (5G, Wifi, etc..)
         | 
         | It's nice to be able to sandbox an app so it can't do anything,
         | especially call home.
        
         | kornhole wrote:
         | InviZible Pro mentioned here provides such firewall in case
         | your OS does not have one built in.
        
         | grrdotcloud wrote:
         | Unless you can confirm the keyboard is not compromised, no
         | amount of security matters.
        
           | calvinmorrison wrote:
           | Well that's silly, since we know the entire baseband is
           | compromised anyway. In reality it's all about your threat
           | model.
           | 
           | I refuse put the NSA in my threat model. If we get to that
           | point as a business, we're going to have warrants blowing us
           | up, secret fisa courts threatening our livelyhoods, and so
           | forth.
           | 
           | However - there's no reason we should allow all advertisers
           | to track us just because we are worried about the NSA
        
           | fsflover wrote:
           | You may be interested in Precursor, for which you indeed can
           | confirm that manually: https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-
           | kosagi/precursor. (But it has no modem.)
        
         | zirgs wrote:
         | GrapheneOS has a network access permission.
        
         | zgk7iqea wrote:
         | Apps can circumvent these "firewalls" quite easily via
         | IPC/Intents.
         | 
         | For example, if you block facebook with a firewall, it can
         | still send an intent to the download manager to make network
         | connections.
         | 
         | (see https://madaidans-
         | insecurities.github.io/android.html#firewa...)
        
           | flangola7 wrote:
           | GrapheneOS is working on a permission to block that too
        
             | zgk7iqea wrote:
             | GrapheneOS alreasy has such a permission. I use it for Apps
             | that shouldn't require internet access, like my keyboard.
        
               | flangola7 wrote:
               | The current network permission does not block IPC
        
         | nani8ot wrote:
         | > Android conspicuously doesn't include 'network access' as a
         | permission, for what I can only assume is nefarious reasons.
         | There's no reason my Calculator app needs to phone home
         | anywhere.
         | 
         | I know that some Android ROM's don't allow blocking all network
         | access (only mobile data). But LineageOS, CalyxOS and
         | GrapheneOS all allow blocking all/VPN/mobile network access.
        
         | Forbo wrote:
         | GrapheneOS has a network permission that you can toggle.
         | 
         | I'm still hoping for an application firewall that will also let
         | me use my real VPN, or hoping that my VPN provider will
         | integrate this functionality directly so I don't have to choose
         | between one or the other. I find trying to do everything over
         | Tor quite limiting due to the number of web admins blocking it
         | entirely. Even VPNs are starting to get frequently blocked,
         | unfortunately.
        
       | ementally wrote:
       | You are probably better off with GrapheneOS + Orbot.
       | 
       | Here is the list of issues I have with this blog.
       | 
       | 1) LineageOS
       | https://github.com/beerisgood/Smartphone_Security#custom-rom...
       | 
       | 2) Riseup email, they have a mailing list, which apparently makes
       | them unable to add a proper DMARC policy. As a result, anyone can
       | spoof an email at any @riseup.net address, and the email would
       | show up as a legitimate email on most recipient mail servers and
       | they do not encrypt the data at rest per-user with the user's own
       | keys like ProtonMail.
       | 
       | 3) Session is great but lacks PFS (perfect forward secrecy)
       | 
       | 4) bromite usually behind in updates which leaves it vulnerable
       | to exploits
       | 
       | btw, On Android, Firefox is still less secure than Chromium-based
       | alternatives: Mozilla's engine, GeckoView, has yet to support
       | site isolation or enable isolatedProcess.
        
         | JackGreyhat wrote:
         | In your opinion, what browser would be better than Bromite?
         | Maybe Vanadium or Fennec?
        
           | ementally wrote:
           | Brave https://www.privacyguides.org/en/mobile-browsers/#brave
           | 
           | About Vanadium, it is mostly focused on security, and it
           | takes advantage of OS hardening to do that. Brave is a fine
           | choice, and it does offer fingerprinting protections that
           | Vanadium doesn't. It's up to you which you'll choose for you
           | use case, but Vanadium takes the cake when it comes to a
           | robust, secure and minimal browser
        
       | jeroenhd wrote:
       | Tunneling all traffic through Tor can be risky, especially if
       | you're using exit nodes to access clearweb applications. The
       | traffic patterns of your tunnel will be significantly different
       | from most Tor traffic (browsers, exclusively) which can help
       | pinpoint your phone if the authorities are wiretapping your
       | connection. Allegedly, the various law enforcement agencies
       | around the world operate a significant amount of exit nodes and
       | if they can pinpoint a particular traffic pattern, they may be
       | able to trace it back home.
       | 
       | I would be more selective with my traffic. Use Tor Browser for
       | browser traffic, but keep sending Signal/Session/whatever through
       | normal means. That makes your phone stand out less. Consider
       | using a decent VPN like Mullvad, that should provide enough
       | plausible deniability not to stand out.
        
         | Cheeeetah wrote:
         | The routes of Tor traffic are dynamically changed, so a node
         | can just pinpoint the pattern during a small period of time. So
         | compared to a VPN which may monitor you constantly, Tor should
         | be preferred.
        
           | conradev wrote:
           | If you think your traffic is not being monitored over Tor,
           | then you have thought incorrectly. It can be monitored at the
           | exit node no problem, and is likely monitored _more_ closely
           | than other endpoints.
           | 
           | Your only hope is either not using exit nodes (and only using
           | hidden services), or encrypting all of your traffic _and_
           | making sure different apps/services use different Tor
           | circuits. This does not happen by default, meaning all of
           | your traffic is mixed together. It doesn't matter that it
           | migrates routes every so often.
           | 
           | Exit nodes don't know where the traffic is coming from,
           | until, of course, you accidentally access your personal
           | domain name over HTTPS just by visiting it, which leaks
           | through SNI. Hope you don't host your own services!
        
         | goodpoint wrote:
         | Tunneling all traffic through Tor is beyond risky. It's
         | absolutely wrong.
         | 
         | Not only applications can leak all sort of data in cleartext,
         | but your traffic is visible to exit nodes, and some are
         | malicious.
        
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       (page generated 2023-05-02 23:01 UTC)