[HN Gopher] Classic fountain pens
___________________________________________________________________
Classic fountain pens
Author : axiomdata316
Score : 65 points
Date : 2023-05-01 22:00 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.wallpaper.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.wallpaper.com)
| bambax wrote:
| I write everyday with a Waterman Expert. They're a little
| expensive (usually less than EUR100) but nothing compared to
| Montblanc, and very pleasant and resilient.
|
| At some point I designed a blotter holder made of a plaque of
| stainless steel and a sheet of plexiglass, and hand-made blotter
| paper. I thought it was quite elegant [0] but I couldn't sell
| more than a couple of them, and now the inventory lingers in my
| garage ;-(
|
| [0] The page still exists on https://drop.com/buy/medusis-rocker-
| blotter, although you can't order them from there anymore.
| pizlonator wrote:
| They forgot about the Sailor 1911
| Ancapistani wrote:
| They missed a _lot_ of excellent pens, and included some
| boutique makers - including a couple who, from the photos, use
| very cheap nibs while charging a premium price.
| jypepin wrote:
| I'm surprised they don't mention Parker. At school in France in
| the 90s, that was the true classic.
| kps wrote:
| Parker was purchased by Newell Rubbermaid, and -- as with so
| many other old famous brands -- their current products are
| junk.
| alienreborn wrote:
| Ten cheap yet great fountain pens from my experience:
|
| - Platinum Preppy/Prefounte/Plasir ($3-$20)
|
| - TWSBI ECO ($30-$50)
|
| - Pilot Metro/Cavalier ($20-$50)
|
| Cheap and OK pens (I found these better for drawing than
| writing):
|
| - Lamy Safari/Al-Star ($20-$50)
|
| - Kaweco Sport Classic ($20 -- )
|
| 'Affordable' Gold Nib pens (These aren't necessarily 'better' but
| writing experience is different(softer feel) which some people
| prefer)
|
| - Pilot Elite 95S ($80-$100)
|
| - Pilot Decimo/Capless ($115-$160)
|
| All prices are from online stores available in US.
| MezzoDelCammin wrote:
| To this I'd add:
|
| For the affordable gold nibs, "Lamy 2000" is generally the
| biggest competitor to Pilot Capless / Vanishing point. Same
| price, very similar nib quality, different esthetics / use
| case.
|
| For the cheap, the aliexpress classics "Jinhao x750" is another
| gateway drug. It's under $10 and gives an almost infinite
| ability for tinkering further down the line when the fountain
| pen bug bites (#6 size nibs that are easy to find / replace and
| standard cartridge / converter size for easy ink availability).
| vr46 wrote:
| This "article" is total "churnalism", just marketing bunk with
| absolutely no content. Obviously I am aware what Wallpaper* is,
| which is mainly a conduit to help people spend their money as
| fast as possible like Brewster's Millions, but this article on HN
| is surely misdirected.
| slowmovintarget wrote:
| Agreed. Most of those listings aren't even close to being
| classics.
|
| For example, The Monoc Nib is very new. It didn't exist a few
| scant months ago. While I hope Ian Schon succeeds and it does
| become considered a classic, a single-piece titanium nib unit
| that encloses an Ultem feed is not a typical fountain pen
| design. (Very cool, just not classic yet... give it 20 years).
|
| The Montblanc, and maybe the Conway Stewart may be the only
| classic brands there.
| vr46 wrote:
| The HN comment thread - once again - provides more
| entertainment and enlightenment than the original post :)
|
| There's some innovative features in the pens, but agreed, no
| classics.
| sn41 wrote:
| Thank you for a delightful term - churnalism : I had never
| heard that before!!
| MezzoDelCammin wrote:
| One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far. We've seen comments
| that "race to the bottom" (Lamy Safari, Pilot Preppy, ...), or
| that aim for "timeless classics" (basically any gold nib - Sailor
| 1911, Pilot Falcon, ~$150+ pens).
|
| There's a third way though. The "actual piece of history". In my
| opinion, no pen is better for this than a Parker 51. This for me
| is the embodiment (and a parent of) "the consumer fountain pen".
| Seen and used everywhere from 1940s to about 1960s. The best part
| - these can now be had for ~$100 and a good portion of them still
| works beautifully to this day. With minimal maintenance
| (cleaning, sometimes slight nib polishing to remove the flat
| spots that come from long time use by their previous owners) one
| can get a working Parker 51 for under $60.
|
| The best part - these pens can go neck to neck with a lot of
| modern $150+ pieces. All the while most of these pens are older
| than majority of HN users. Heck, having a small collection
| myself, most of my Parker 51s are older than my parents.
| quantgenius wrote:
| Totally agree. Properly restored vintage pens are absolutely
| awesome. You don't have to go as high end as a vintage Parker
| 51. Try an Esterbrook. They were the BIC of their day and are
| amazing.
|
| Very important warning regarding Parker 51s or any modern
| Parker. Do not buy the modern Parker 51!! The brand Parker is
| now owned by a company that is choosing to take advantage of
| people who remember the Parker brand and foisting total garbage
| on them.
| nolan879 wrote:
| I love my Esterbrooks, I was gifted a green model J many
| years ago, and I use it frequently at home. I recently
| purchased an SJ from an antiques market, and revived it with
| a new ink sac ($20 all in), this pen now lives on my desk at
| work. I prefer their lighter weight to the Pilot
| Metropolitans.
| cge wrote:
| I'd agree. This article was not at all what I assumed it would
| be about: it is primarily a listing of boutique manufacturer
| pens that are entirely modern and not at all classic in
| mentality. They fit the standard "limited edition, barrel-
| design-focused, standard section and cartridge+converter,
| generic nib" product design and business model that I think is
| intrinsically linked to the move of fountain pens to being
| marketed as mostly status items.
|
| There are great, actually classic pens, and being from a time
| when they were meant to be used, they can be far more
| interesting. Parker 51s are ubiquitous and reliable, and vacuum
| fillers in general seem significantly better than modern
| cartridge and converter pens. For mid century technically-
| interesting pens, I'm fond of Sheaffer snorkel fillers, where
| the pen can be quickly refilled without the nib ever touching
| ink and changing the line thickness or becoming messy. Even
| earlier, Waterman and other pens with fine, flexible nibs offer
| nib styles that range from very difficult to impossible to get
| in modern pens.
| germyj wrote:
| Seconding the 51! Excellent pen for the price.
|
| If one doesn't mind jumping through a hoop or two regarding
| shipping, vintage Montblancs are just about as cheap from Japan
| as the 51 is in the US, and sometimes cheaper. The
| 12/14/32/220/etc are smaller than the flagship Meisterstucks,
| but they're also about 1/10 the price and really quite nice
| quality. Recently I've paid 30-50$ per pen to develop a little
| collection; the 220 was most expensive at 70$.
|
| Piston fillers that are still going strong after decades,
| minimal maintenance, pleasant gold nibs.
| bborud wrote:
| I've been using fountain pens to write for about 35 years now,
| and I have pens that range from about $30 to about $500. At any
| given time I have about 2-3 pens either on my desk or in my
| backpack.
|
| The best value for money I've seen are the TWSBI pens. As writing
| instruments they are often more reliable than most of the pens I
| have that are more expensive. The production quality tends to be
| surprisingly consistent for a low cost pen. I have about 6-7 of
| these and I have only had one fail on me and that was because it
| got banged up in my backpack. These are good workhorses for
| people who take a lot of notes with generous size ink reservoirs.
|
| The least reliable pens I own are usually in the $150-$200 range.
| A lot of these pens either have problems with inconsistent
| manufacturing or they are fragile or in some way. A lot of these
| manufacturers have considerably more expensive versions, but the
| uneven manufacturing quality means I would only consider buying
| these in a store so I can have them serviced/adjusted/fixed or
| return them if they can't justify the price tag.
|
| I'm not really into expensive pens since I don't collect them to
| collect: I use them. Pens that aren't good writing instruments
| are of no use to me.
|
| A surprise for me is a Mont Blanc pen I've had for 15 or so
| years. I got it as a gift and I had never even considered buying
| a Mont Blanc since it is a luxury brand. Mont Blanc fountain pens
| _are_ overpriced, but at least the pen I has performed without a
| hitch for 15 years.
|
| The best pen I own is a nondescript black fountain pen with a nib
| that has a really rough looking surface finish. It has no visible
| brand, which has made it hard to figure out what it is. I _think_
| it was made by a company that has since gone under. The nib works
| well for me and it has performed perfectly for about a decade.
|
| I tend to buy Leuchtturm 1917 A5 notebooks since these work well
| with almost all of my pen/ink combinations plus they are a nice
| size and have stiff covers. I tried Moleskine, but they're just
| not very good notebooks. The paper is too flimsy for fountain
| pens.
| quantgenius wrote:
| This list is certainly not classic fountain pens. They are mostly
| machined pens made by small batch producers with generic nibs and
| two with somewhat "different" nibs I wouldn't normally suggest
| most people get. These are pretty good pens but not what I would
| get as a first pen.
|
| Here are the pens I would suggest you consider if you don't know
| a lot about fountain pens. If you are a fountain pen collector,
| I'm mostly ignoring a number of European brands who make great
| pens but have nib quality control from hell which are fine if you
| know fountain pens and how to adjust nibs etc but not if you are
| a beginner.
|
| Budget under 40 bucks:
|
| 1) Lamy Safari: The grip section is triangular to support the
| traditional writing grip. It's one of the choices middle
| schoolers are require to use in certain European countries. If
| you have a traditional grip and don't have huge hands you will
| likely like it. If you don't, stay away. Lamy sometimes has
| quality control issues on it's inexpensive nibs but not as many
| as other European brands in my experience.
|
| 2) Pilot Metropolitan: Pilot has a reputation of really good
| quality control on what are very high quality nibs. The 20 dollar
| Pilot Metropolitan is no exception. Amazing writing experience
| for the money. Probably the best steel nibs you can buy.
| Competitive with many pens that cost over 100 dollars.
|
| 3) TWSBI Eco: Piston filler pen so you don't need a cartridge or
| converter. The pen is a demonstrator so you can see how it works.
| Comes in lots of cute colors. Uses Jowo nibs so the nibs are
| pretty good. Not quite as good as Pilot nibs.
|
| I suggest most people skip the next level up in price. You don't
| get much more for the money and you are probably better off
| saving for the next level up.
|
| Next level up from that. You usually get gold nibs at this level.
|
| 1) Lamy 2000: In permanent collection of the Museum of Modern
| Art. Design hasn't changed since the 1960s and is timeless. It's
| designed for people who know how to use fountain pens, the right
| amount of pressure, the right grip and who don't rotate the pen,
| the aforementioned kids in the European school who grew up on a
| Lamy ABC and then the Safari and so on. It's absolutely awesome
| but not recommended as your first fountain pen if you've never
| used one before. It's different from other pens so if you get it,
| I suggest you try it for a few weeks if you don't love it. I've
| known more than one person go from "I hate it" to "It's my
| favorite pen" as they learn how to use it. Absolutely beautiful
| and very understated pen. Amazing nibs that have a feel unlike
| any other. Slip cap so great for short notes.
|
| 2) Pilot Vanishing Point: Clicks to expose and hide the nib. No
| cap. So feels like a ball point. Nib is long and narrow so
| slightly bouncy. Really nice writing experience. There is clip
| near where your grip goes so some people won't like that. Very
| comfortable if you hold it with a traditional grip. Right up
| there with the Lamy 2000.
|
| 3) Platinum 3776: Really nice nib. Designed to give you feedback
| as you write so you have more control. It's very smooth but has
| feedback. Having the extra control is really nice if you write a
| lot of mathematical notation.
|
| 4) Sailor Pro Gear Slim or Sailor 1911 (not 1911L which is more
| expensive). Amazing nibs. The non slim versions are described
| below. These pens and nibs are a bit smaller, stiffer and very
| good but not as good as the large versions. Note that the Pro
| Gear Slim and Sailor 1911 (not 1911L), may be too small if you
| have large hands. Many of my female friends find these very
| comfortable. If you are all about the nib, Sailor probably makes
| the best nibs in the world today.
|
| Another level up:
|
| 1) Pilot Custom 823. Vacuum Filler. Amazing nib. Used by Neil
| Gaiman and other famous authors who like writing the first draft
| of their novels with a fountain pen. Used by other famous people
| as a signature pen. These pens are wet, i.e. put out a lot of
| ink. If you haven't graduated to fountain pen friendly paper, get
| a fine nib or maybe skip it for one of the others.
|
| 2) Platinum President. Like the Platinum 3776. More refined nib.
| Slightly thicker grip. Often available very cheaply on Amazon.
| Not very wet so very serviceable on cheap paper with cheap paper
| friendly ink.
|
| 3) Sailor 1911L or Sailor Pro Gear (not the slim version). Note:
| The slim versions are also very good but not quite as good.
| Sailor is thought to make the best nibs in the world. Absolutely
| amazing writing experience. Writing with a Sailor nib feels sort
| of like writing with a pencil. It's very smooth but not glass
| like. There is just enough control. Probably my favorite nibs.
| Not very wet so great for cheap paper.
|
| If you don't write on high quality paper, and I mean genuinely
| high quality paper, like Rhodia, Tomoe River, Clairefontaine etc.
| as opposed to overpriced junk like Moleskine, get a fine nib in
| anything but a Sailor or Platinum. You can get a medium nib
| Sailor or Platinum since their nibs run narrower.
|
| You should also limit yourself to a cheap paper compatible ink.
| You could try Platinum dye-based Blue Black, Diamine Registrar's
| Blue Black, Sailor Kiwa Giro, Sailor Seiboku or Sailor Souboku
| etc. You could get also get Noodler's Black. However, Noodler's
| hand mixes inks and the quality control is off a lot of the time.
| Nathan Tardiff's (owner and sole employee of Noodler's) political
| statements may not be compatible with a lot of the crowd on HN
| either. If you go with Noodler's, get regular Noodler's Black, do
| not get X-Feather.
|
| (edited: formatting and minor changes for clarity)
| axiomdata316 wrote:
| This is a great list. Just to piggyback on the Pilot Vanishing
| Point. I originally wasn't interested in getting one because I
| was put off with the clip being on the "wrong" end of the pen.
| I wound up purchasing the Mahjohn A1 which is basically a
| Chinese replica of the Pilot Vanishing Point. (I guess the
| patent expired after 50 years) It's my new favorite pen. Even
| with a steel nib it writes very smoothly. Because it's almost
| identical you can interchange the cartridges and pin nib
| inserts.
|
| I'm very tempted to buy the actual Pilot Vanishing Point insert
| and swap it so I have a 18k nib.
|
| Originally released in 1963 it really is a really cool piece of
| engineering. Highly recommend the Pilot Vanishing Point or the
| Chinese replica as a daily writer.
| yeahboats wrote:
| Forgot to post my comment this morning so I'll post under
| here.
|
| Another recommendation for the Mahjohn (or Moonman) A1. I
| have always adored the Pilot Vanishing Point but couldn't
| bring myself to spend 160 dollars on a pen, especially when
| most of my time is spent typing on a computer. So I found out
| about the Moonman A1 and I enjoyed writing with it so much
| that I ordered another. Feels great with some iroshizuku ink
| (I suppose this is my splurge) and Luechtterm 1917 notebook
| paper, which I only mention since ink/paper seems to have an
| impact on writing experience.
|
| The pen also comes in a clipless version for those that want
| to avoid the clip.
| danShumway wrote:
| +1 for the Twisbi Eco. I'm not a fountain pen expert but it's
| always served me well, and I love the piston filler and general
| maintainability. Great as a pen that gives a good writing
| experience but isn't so expensive that you're scared to carry
| it around with you or throw it in a bag. And the extra ink
| capacity means I can take the pen on short trips without
| bringing ink along with me.
| blagie wrote:
| <-- This post is accurate, but I'd phrase it more strongly. Not
| all the listed pens in the original post are even "good." The
| Montblanc is mostly jewellery. It doesn't write as well as pens
| a fraction of the price, and you're mostly paying for the logo.
| I dismissed the post seeing it in the list. The Pilot
| Metropolitan this post mentions cost less than 1/10th the
| price, and writes a lot better.
|
| I'll mention: Another way to go are $1-$5 fountain pens from
| China. You can get about a dozen for the cost of a single
| Pilot, or about a hundred for the cost of the Montblanc. The
| quality is mixed, but if you buy a few, you'll get a couple
| really good ones, a couple typical ones, and maybe a broken
| one. My better ones are every bit as good as the Pilot.
|
| The nice thing is that at that price, if you lose one, it's not
| a tragedy.
|
| And at that price point, you can also get a bent nib, a flexy
| nib, a wide nib, etc. just for fun.
|
| If nothing else, it's a great way to start experimenting and
| seeing what you like before you buy a more expensive pen to see
| what you want.
| onebike wrote:
| I came here to write something similar, so thank you. I would
| add a Pelikan M800 or M100 to the level-up list, though.
| quantgenius wrote:
| Love my Pelikans. But the M800 and M1000 retail for more than
| double the most expensive pen on my list. They are awesome
| but not necessarily a better writing experience than the pens
| on the list.
|
| Still, they mostly didn't make the list because while
| Pelikans are awesome, their nib quality control isn't what
| one would hope it was. In addition, you don't really know
| what you are getting in terms of nib size. I've bought
| Pelikan extra fines that make a wider line than Pelikan
| mediums.
|
| If you know how to tune nibs or you budget and extra 50
| dollars for a nibmeister to get it the way you like, or you
| buy from a retail store where you try the pen out first and
| know what to look for great. I suspect most here will buy
| online and won't necessarily know what makes for a
| problematic nib and how they want it to work.
| slowmovintarget wrote:
| Regarding Noodler's Ink: Most of his popular inks are fairly
| consistent. Noodler's Ink Black being by far the most popular.
| For black inks I prefer Heart of Darkness. It is a deeper,
| richer black, though it isn't as well-behaved on bad paper.
|
| Noodler's Navy is also very good. (I have many bottles from
| this brand.)
|
| But if you want a safe-in-any-pen, just works, generally great
| ink, I'd have to recommend Pilot Blue-Black in the 70ml bottle.
| The bottle has built-in ink well, so it ensures you get a good
| fill all the way through the life of the bottle. The ink is
| middle of the road for wetness (Pilot Iroshizuku inks are wet,
| this is in the middle, not dry like Robert Oster inks, for
| example).
| quantgenius wrote:
| While I love many Noodler's inks and have many bottles from
| him too, while this used to be the case, this hasn't been my
| experience recently. In my experience the inconsistency has
| if anything gotten worse recently. Worse, the bottle will
| sometimes contain ink that is different from the label.
|
| I recently bought a bottle of Noodler's Navy to replace a
| bottle I actually emptied that was bought maybe 5-6 years
| ago. The ink inside the bottle was almost certainly Noodler's
| Aircorp Blue Black, which I also have.
|
| In my experience, and based on anecdata from friends who also
| use fountain pens, Noodler's inconsistency and quality
| control issues have gotten MUCH worse in the past 2-3 years.
| Alekhine wrote:
| It may interest you to know that Noodler's, as far as I
| know, is a one man operation. It's literally one guy making
| ink in his shed.
| yumraj wrote:
| > Pilot Metropolitan
|
| One thing I'd like to mention is the difference between
| Japanese Fine and European Fine, with Japanese being much
| finer.
|
| I found Metropolitan Fine to be scratchy while love Lamy Safari
| Fine. I'll recommend Metropolitan Medium to most people who are
| starting with fountain pens, or a Lamy Safari Fine.
| TimButterfield wrote:
| The Pilot Custom 823 (amber demonstrator) is my favorite pen. I
| love the way it writes, the quantity of ink it holds, and that
| the screw down piston knob also blocks ink flow so it doesn't
| dry out. I have the Sailor 1911 and Pro Gear also, but prefer
| the Realo piston fill for the larger ink capacity. I enjoy the
| Rhodia paper also.
| mpalczewski wrote:
| I would not reccomend TWSBI for beginners, I find that the nibs
| are way to finicky. I needed to tune mine a bit before it wrote
| well. Pilot and Lamy are great out of the box.
| quantgenius wrote:
| I haven't had this experience with TWSBI. They used to have
| somewhat more finicky nibs before they switched to using Jowo
| nibs. I've found the nibs on TWSBI pens to generally be
| pretty well adjusted Jowo nibs. They aren't the same level of
| quality control as Japanese brands but are probably better
| than any European brand.
|
| Plus they have a really good lifetime warranty. If your nib
| has issues, call them. They will probably send you a
| replacement.
| bborud wrote:
| Funny, I've had the opposite experience. That might be down
| to things like hand size, how you hold the pen etc.
|
| I've had 3-4 Lamy pens and they have all ended up wither
| being given away or thrown in the bin because the nibs tend
| to be either dry or scratchy for me. I think I have only one
| regular Pilot pen and it works well for me. (I did try a flex
| nib Namiki Falcon, and that just didn't work at all for me.
| Namiki/Pilot are the same company, right?).
| suzakus wrote:
| I haven't been in the fountain pen world for a couple
| years, but it was typical for everything except the
| Japanese pens to have consistency issues. I wouldn't fault
| this on the OP's usage habits with his regards to TWSBI
| issues. I've heard they've gotten better, but again,
| haven't been buying for years at this point.
|
| Namiki is the same as Pilot yes. The flex falcon's are
| notably scratchy, and it's a well known issue. The general
| cheap pens (i.e. the metropolitan and co) are amazing, both
| in consistency and performance. The Falcon nibs on their
| #15 pens (most famously the 823) don't have the
| scratchiness, but can have flow issues.
| ubermonkey wrote:
| Quality post right here. Absolutely no notes.
|
| My daily driver for nearly 20 years was a Vanishing Point. They
| write REALLY well, feel smooth, and the cartridge ink is
| entirely acceptable -- which was important to me when I was
| traveling often for work.
|
| These days I alternate between a TWSBI, a couple VPs, a Safari,
| and a nicer Aurora my sister gave me for Christmas.
| selykg wrote:
| I love my Custom 823. I have several Pilot pens, they're all
| superb.
| sn41 wrote:
| I am a fan of fountain pens, but do not have a lot of cash to
| splurge on experimentation. This detailed comment is a great
| resource.
| aarghh wrote:
| Great list.
|
| One addition on the really cheap end - Pilot Prera - which
| comes with a wonderful calligraphy nib as well (CM). Also, the
| Pilot Vanishing Point is available with a calligraphy nib (I
| retrofitted mine of 20 years vintage with one, and it has been
| a great joy).
|
| Mnemosyne notebooks are what I use. Comb bound, so can lie
| flat, and very good paper.
| mcguire wrote:
| I haven't been keeping up; does TWSBI still have quality
| problems with their plastic? The last I heard, there were a lot
| of reports of parts breaking. TWSBI was always good about
| replacing the parts, but I heard too many stories about
| someone's second or third replacement cap breaking.
| quantgenius wrote:
| I haven't had any trouble with TWSBI's bought in the last 2-3
| years. Besides they have a crazy good lifetime warranty. I've
| had a pen stepped on, emailed them and told them so and they
| shipped a replacement barrel to me for shipping cost. Ditto a
| replacement wrench that I lost.
| nunuvit wrote:
| For anyone with a budding or casual interest in fountain pens,
| the Lamy Safari is the way to go. They're plentiful, inexpensive,
| rugged, and have plenty of nibs, cartridges, and refillable
| cartridges to experiment with. Just pick your color and start
| using it to figure out what you value in a pen.
|
| Don't let the grip shape scare you off, you might like it more
| than you thought, but if not it won't ruin the value as an
| experimentation platform. Note that unlike a ballpoint you'll
| need to experiment to find the right combination of nibs, inks,
| and papers.
|
| Also check out the unrelated free Handwriting Repair pdf so you
| don't feel ashamed and disappointed in yourself every time you
| use the pen. Plus it'll turn the flat shape of the nib into an
| advantage.
|
| Edit: People seem to like the Pilots. I haven't tried them, but
| they seem to also be inexpensive and have good nib and ink
| options.
| [deleted]
| sbaiddn wrote:
| The grip is the best part of the pen!
| stefanka wrote:
| I got their ,,studio" and it's pretty decent for its price
| waynesonfire wrote:
| Agreed, love the Lamy Safari. I got the Al Star to up-scale it
| a bit. And, then a gold-nib later. But, honestly, like the
| steel more!
|
| I also tried the Pilot Metropolitan, for some reason this awful
| pen is recommended as an alternative to the Lamy. Doesn't even
| compare, got rid of it fairly quickly. The ridge along the grip
| was very uncomfortable for me.
| nunuvit wrote:
| The Lamy grips are pretty controversial too. It looks like
| there are a few other pens that use the same nib and feed as
| the Metro. Do any of them lack that ridge?
| falcolas wrote:
| I'd go one step further and suggest a Pilot disposable fountain
| pen. Their nibs are remarkably good, and you're only out around
| $2 if you dislike them.
|
| And if you like them, well then, have fun with your new hobby!
| kps wrote:
| I second the recommendation to try Pilot first, though I
| haven't used any of their recent disposables. Pilot nibs are
| just remarkably consistently good. As a starter I'd suggest
| the Pilot Metropolitan with a medium nib (as Asian nibs tend
| to be a little finer than European nibs with the same
| designation) although my personal favourite 'cheap' pen (that
| is, in the Lamy Safari price range) is the old-style Prera
| (in the US, from JetPens).
| haradion wrote:
| I've got both a Metropolitan and a Prera, and I can second
| (third?) this recommendation. Fantastic pens.
| slowmovintarget wrote:
| I was giving away Pilot Varsity pens (a.k.a. V-pens) to
| people around the office that were interested. Amazon sells
| them in boxes of 10, and yes they have a surprisingly good
| nib for such an inexpensive pen. They also have decent
| capacity, as the thing is basically a non-refillable ink tank
| with a novel felt feed (similar to what markers use).
|
| The next pen I recommend as a starter is usually the Pilot
| Metropolitan, or the TWSBI Eco for those who want to dive
| into bottled ink.
| nunuvit wrote:
| True, I actually did that myself when I impulse bought one at
| an art supply store since it was at the checkout counter.
| It's a great way to find out if you're interested in
| experimenting with pens, or if you just want a no-fuss tool
| and have a passing curiosity in fountain pens. Do this before
| getting a non-disposable.
| BeetleB wrote:
| I preferred the Pilot Metropolitan, with a Medium Nib
| (equivalent to Fine in Europe). It was my goto pen for a number
| of years, despite getting more expensive ones.
| rPlayer6554 wrote:
| The lamy safari is fantastic and only about $35. You can find a
| black one on Amazon for $20.
| jimmyjazz14 wrote:
| I have a number of fountain pens but the one I keep coming back
| to is the Pilot Kakuno, they are super cheap but they just feel
| so good in hand especially for sketching and drawing.
| slowmovintarget wrote:
| Pilot somehow pulls off miracles with their steel nibs. The
| Kakuno has the same nib as the Metropolitan or the Explorer,
| and they're great. Even better, the Kakuno can (just barely)
| fit the CON-70 converter for a nice big ink reservoir instead
| of the wee CON-40.
|
| Granted, refilling cartridges with bottled ink and blunt
| syringes works really well, too.
| quantgenius wrote:
| Kakunos are awesome. Really good nibs. Awesome value for
| money.
| taeric wrote:
| I'm partial to the metropolitan pens. But, realistically, any
| pen is a fine starter nowadays.
|
| I am a huge fan of the larger nibs. I tried getting into
| calligraphy, but haven't managed the eye for it, yet. Tons and
| tons of fun, though.
| Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
| In my view, Lamy Safari is way overrated. Don't get me wrong,
| it's far from bad, a pretty consistent pen for the price. But
| the ink dries fast-ish if you don't use it, and especially, the
| cartridges are proprietary so you're tied to the brand's
| cartridges and ink colors (there's a piston converter, but
| converters, meh).
|
| A Pilot Metropolitan is approximately the same price and at
| least in my view, it's better as it uses standard international
| cartridges. A TWSBI Eco is more expensive, but not by that
| much, and it's an absolute reliability monster.
| hammyhavoc wrote:
| Who downvoted you? It's a valid perspective.
| nunuvit wrote:
| Can you also use cartridges with the TWSBI Eco? A first pen
| should give you the option.
|
| I haven't tried the Pilots, but the standard cartridge could
| change my recommendation to them.
| Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
| No, the Eco can only be filled with a piston mechanism, and
| yes, you have a point. While I love piston fillers, it can
| be off-putting for a complete beginner, so maybe better as
| second pen than as first :) The Pilot Metropolitan is great
| as first pen, IMO.
| rbonvall wrote:
| No, the TWSBI Eco can only be filled from a bottle.
|
| The TWSBI Swipe supports both cartridges and converters.
| nunuvit wrote:
| Thanks for confirming. You really need to try both to
| find what you like.
| throwanem wrote:
| > [the Pilot Metropolitan] uses standard international
| cartridges
|
| I'm afraid not; Pilot cartridges are sui generis, and not
| compatible with either Lamy's own proprietary design or with
| "International Standard" cartridges.
|
| That said, there's nothing _wrong_ with proprietary
| cartridges per se, given that fountain pen cartridges in
| general are a pretty niche good. I like Pilot cartridges for
| being refillable and resealable, especially since Pilot makes
| a lot of really nice inks that only come in bottles, but
| unless you 're anxious to do a lot of refilling that doesn't
| really count for much.
| quantgenius wrote:
| The Pilot Metropolitans sold in Europe use standard
| international cartridges. The ones used in the US use
| proprietary Pilot cartridges.
| throwanem wrote:
| No kidding! I had no idea.
| disqard wrote:
| I will always lend my voice to a vote for the TWSBI Eco. I
| have used it after leaving it in a drawer for months, and it
| just starts up without issues.
| Alifatisk wrote:
| > Also check out the unrelated free Handwriting Repair pdf
|
| Link?
| WillAdams wrote:
| I suspect it would be something by Kate Gladstone:
|
| https://handwritingrepair.info
| nunuvit wrote:
| Nope
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| nordsieck wrote:
| I assume your parent is referring to this:
|
| https://penvibe.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2021/07/Handwriting-R...
| nunuvit wrote:
| Yup, that's a copy of part of it.
| e40 wrote:
| I saw the recommendation for the Lamy Safari in a lot of
| places. Just want to say I actually hated writing with it.
| Maybe I got a bad one, but I doubt it.
| gregors wrote:
| I really love my Lamy Safari, but tbh my experience is
| limited. What did you follow up with?
| nunuvit wrote:
| I assume you mean the nib wrote scratchy. Honestly,
| troubleshooting that issue is something you have to be
| prepared for if you have a fountain pen. I haven't used
| enough of any nib to know if some of them have genuine design
| or quality control problems, or if the volume of reports
| online is due to people expecting a more plug-and-play
| experience.
| hammyhavoc wrote:
| Where you source nibs from matters a great deal.
|
| Amazon? IME, more commonly bad batches.
|
| Small independent retailers who live and die by satisfying
| their niche enthusiast customers? Yeah, they're fantastic,
| and they're generally passionate about what they sell.
| quantgenius wrote:
| It's extremely rare to get a nib that isn't tuned pretty
| much perfectly if you buy a brand new pen made by one of
| the Japanese big 3, Pilot, Platinum and Sailor from an
| actual fountain pen retailer (online or brick and mortar).
| I've never gotten a remotely bad nib from any of those nor
| have I heard of someone getting a remotely bad nib from one
| of them.
|
| If you buy from eBay or used elsewhere or for that matter
| Amazon, you do sometimes get a bad nib because someone has
| tried to tune one of these nibs and botched it and then
| decided to try and sell the pen new.
| dwringer wrote:
| A lot of times, with Pilots especially, if they're sold
| for the Japanese domestic market the tines are extremely
| tight and the pens write _very_ dry, to the point of
| needing adjustment for writing in roman-derived script. I
| have a few nice Pilots and of the high end ones bought
| from Japan, a little bit of skipping or dryness was
| common out of the box.
| nunuvit wrote:
| Most nib complaints can probably be resolved with proper
| adjustment and maintenance. If people were doing that,
| I'd expect the complaints to be more focused on how the
| nibs defy their efforts, as opposed to how the nibs write
| poorly.
| [deleted]
| MisterBastahrd wrote:
| I have two. The first one was purchased as part of a box kit
| from Bespoke Post. That one is fantastic all-around. Then I
| misplaced it and purchased a second one from Amazon,
| apparently with a different nib. I prefer the Pilot
| disposables to that one.
| dwringer wrote:
| I've had a few Safaris and they're easily among my favorites,
| but personally it was common to get misaligned nibs with
| them, or extreme variation between two different nibs of the
| same grind (so I don't think the problem of "getting a bad
| one" is as unlikely as portrayed). The alignment problem
| occurs with all brands to one degree or another IME, and it's
| worth learning to make adjustments using a loupe or macro
| camera for anyone who's interested in the hobby.
|
| There's also a widespread problem of counterfeit Lamy Safaris
| out there, which usually come in subtly different packaging
| and/or have subtly different markings on the pen body. These
| are widely considered to be inferior, and fairly common if
| ordering somewhere like Amazon.
| etrautmann wrote:
| This is fascinating to me, as someone naive to the hobby.
| Can you describe what you're looking for and what
| adjustments you'd make? Are there two halves of the nib
| that need to be at the right spacing and alignment for
| proper ink-wicking or something like that? Does that affect
| the smoothness of the interaction with the paper too?
|
| I routinely work under a high-magnification dissecting
| scope to build experimental equipment for neuroscience, but
| I never considered that people would be doing this to
| optimized their writing instruments.
| dwringer wrote:
| Pretty much all of what you wrote is a consideration, but
| everyone probably has their own preferences (and in some
| part it's affected by writing angle and penmanship
| habits). Certain nib styles are better suited to
| different ways of holding a pen. And there's a lot more
| to it, since different papers react in different ways to
| different nibs, and inks are another wide-ranging
| variable.
|
| I think many people get drawn into the hobby for the
| endless pursuit of matching pens, papers, and inks, or
| trying to optimize for various characteristics across
| different combinations of the above. Of course a lot of
| people don't bother and just find one that works well
| enough and leave it at that.
| waynesonfire wrote:
| I agree, I've had huge variation in the nibs as well. I did
| some research on how to polish the nibs a bit and was able
| to tune the ones that didn't perform as well.
|
| Even the gold nib needed tuning. :(
|
| You should be able to feel a _consistent_ feedback as you
| write with a proper nib. Two of the three nibs that I
| bought didn't perform out of the box. And a fine nib was
| too dry. I bought some brass spacers to separate the tins a
| bit.
| dmpk2k wrote:
| A big problem with Safaris is they dry out quickly. There are
| many great pen varieties nowadays, none of which have this
| common fountain-pen shortcoming.
|
| Safaris are suitable for people who write daily; others should
| look elsewhere.
| throwaway2203 wrote:
| Do you have a recommendation?
| vgeek wrote:
| Pilot Kakuno is cheap, relatively durable and pretty good
| quality. I would take it over a Safari in the sub $25
| category.
| Kon-Peki wrote:
| The Kakuno is a small pen, intended for the hands of
| children. But it _is_ outstanding at that price point,
| and it uses the same cartridges /converters as the
| Metropolitan.
|
| My kids have them and will use them until they outgrow
| them.
| dmpk2k wrote:
| Three I know about are the TWSBI Eco and Diamond, and
| Pilot's disposable Vpen. They've already been mentioned
| elsewhere in this thread.
|
| Beyond those, do research. Fountain pens drying out is a
| major problem that catches newcomers off-guard. When you
| can buy EnerGels for peanuts, fountain pen manufacturers
| really need to up their game to stay remotely competitive
| with other pen types. And many don't.
| quantgenius wrote:
| You do need to cap fountain pens because the inks are
| water based.
|
| If you need to take quick notes and drying out is a
| problem because the pens are uncapped and capped a lot,
| get a Lamy 2000, vintage (not new) Parker 51 or a Pilot
| Vanishing Point. The first two have slip caps and hooded
| nibs so cap and uncap really quickly and don't dry out
| due to the hooded nib. The Vanishing Point also has a
| hooded nib but you click it like a ballpoint pen to
| expose and hide the nib. Also don't use quick drying
| inks.
|
| If drying out is a problem because you don't write
| frequently enough, there are two solutions. Solution 1:
| Buy a Platinum (Preppy for low end, or 3776 higher end).
| It has a really good cap. Both will take a long time to
| dry out. Or even better, write more frequently.
| kps wrote:
| _Old_ Parker 51. (Emphatically, do not touch any current
| Parker.)
| criddell wrote:
| A few years ago I bought a Pilot Metropolitan fountain pen.
| It's decent, but the ink evaporates really quickly.
|
| Last year I bought an inexpensive Platinum Preppy and it
| doesn't have this problem at all. No idea why the Pilot is so
| bad or if I can fix it, but it basically makes the pen
| useless to me because I do not write daily. Even if I did use
| it daily, the disappearing ink means I'd have more
| maintenance to deal with than I really want.
|
| The other thing many people don't think about is paper
| quality. Fountain pen ink really soaks through many types of
| paper. It took me a while, but I finally found a yellow legal
| pad brand that is great with a fountain pen. Mintra canary
| premium legal pads are inexpensive and nice to write on.
| dmpk2k wrote:
| Indeed.
|
| For newcomers: if you get a pen that seals properly (so it
| won't dry out), consider getting a fast-drying ink; you
| won't end up with streaks across the paper and on your
| hands. I found Lamy T52 acceptable.
| frereubu wrote:
| The problem I have with the Safari is that I don't write much
| and they dry out before I use them much. My Kaweco Sport lasts
| for ages, and I think it's to do with the fit of the screw top
| compared to the relatively loose clicking mechanism of the
| Safari cap.
| trilobyte wrote:
| I use a refillable cartridge on my pens and have dialed in
| about how much ink I should load at any given point in time
| based on my writing habits. It might help to play around with
| that.
| spyrefused wrote:
| For a article on classic pens I miss something from Kaweco or
| Lamy as entry level, for example, or some of the classic pens
| from japanese brands like Pilot or Sailor.
| MezzoDelCammin wrote:
| oh, IMO the answer to what this article is missing is
| easy:"almost everything".
|
| To me it looks like some sort of product placement marketing
| fluff with "Montblanc" thrown in just to give it a measure of
| plausible deniability.
| nimbius wrote:
| For those of us that arent raking in the FAANG dosh for a 3
| figure pen, give TWSBI a try. theyre just as good.
|
| https://www.twsbi.com/
| [deleted]
| now__what wrote:
| Lamy Safari has been my go-to for years, but for anyone
| starting out I recommend the TWSBI Eco. Only downside imo is
| inability to easily swap out nibs in a TWSBI.
| disqard wrote:
| I'll second this recommendation!
|
| The TWSBI Eco is a beautiful, robust, and dependable pen.
| cik wrote:
| I have a _lot_ of fountain pens, some very high end, some cheap
| garbage. The TWSBI Echo is my favourite pen to write with. The
| nib is dreamy. Pare that with J.Herbin ink and it 's the best
| writing experience I've ever had.
| eschneider wrote:
| The TWSBI pens definitely hit a sweet spot for me as well.
| ssnistfajen wrote:
| TWSBI leans towards the thicker side for me personally, but
| it's a great workhorse pen for anyone who uses fountain pens
| daily on real writing tasks. TWSBI Eco's ink reservoir size and
| ease-of-use is simply unrivalled among competitors in the same
| price range.
| [deleted]
| liendolucas wrote:
| I own a Pilot birdie which is extremely small but beautiful
| fountain pen. It resembles a tiny stainless steel rod. It was
| part of the "Birdie" collection which came also with a ball pen
| and mechanical pencil. Unfortunately as all good things they
| don't seem to manufacture them anymore. I started using it some
| time ago because I'm tired to buy plastic pens, also the its
| stroke is much better than anything else I've used so far.
| Fountain pens are a world.
| sbaiddn wrote:
| For a beginner, its hard to improve on the "pilot penenship"
|
| Its only flaw, in my opinion, is its lack of a clip
| chad_strategic wrote:
| I have a Cross fountain pen, not sure what the model is, I'm not
| even sure how great it is or isn't.
|
| However I have had it at least since high school and that is over
| 30 years ago...
|
| Only have changed the nib and it still writes great.
| agambrahma wrote:
| IMO posts like this contribute to the impression of _all_
| fountain pens being "expensive, fancy things".
|
| I have a Lamy Safari that has lasted 12 years (and counting) I
| have a TWSBI Eco that has lasted 9 years (ditto)
|
| You have a LOT of options with pens and ink that are high-quality
| and long-lasting.
|
| Of course, there are _better_ ones out there, but it's important
| to share how easy it is to get started.
| rg111 wrote:
| As a fountain pen enthusiast who uses fountain pens exclusively,
| this list surprises me.
|
| What does this author want to cover? Good looking expensive
| stuff?
|
| Just buy a Pilot Metropolitan or a Lamy Safari. Or even a
| Platinum Preppy. These pens are extremely cheap.
|
| And beyond these pens, if you notice any improvement in
| smoothness and comfort of writing, I would throw that in the
| margin of error.
|
| People have their reasons to buy more expensive pens. But if
| smoothness, comfort are your goal, then you can buy what I said.
|
| Metal-body Lamys and Pilots are also generational wealth. You can
| hand over one to your daughter after you write 40 years with it.
|
| My favorite fountain pen so far is: Pilot Custom 823. That's a
| bit expensive.
|
| But I used Metropolitan, Preppy, and Safari for close to a
| decade. And I had only these pens. Nothing else.
| Bud wrote:
| I have a Montblanc I got in the 80s. Still a pleasure to use.
| Great investment.
|
| For those seeking something more affordable, the Kaweco Sport is
| a great pen, great price, well worth the money, and a real
| pleasure. Ink cartridges are cheap, too.
| mydriasis wrote:
| If you're a new or aspiring pen user, let me recommend you get a
| screw-top -- they won't pop open accidentally as you learn where
| you like to stash your pen. This was the cause of more than a few
| ink incidents for me when I was getting used to carrying a pen!
| ziml77 wrote:
| I got into fountain pens for a while. One big problem with them
| is that you really need paper that's designed for them. A lot of
| common paper ends up wicking out the ink way too fast.
|
| But they are still pretty cool writing implements. It's easy to
| change the nibs in them so I would recommend trying out a few
| different sizes and styles to find one that suits you. It's a fun
| experience even if ballpoint pens are overall more practical.
| dan-robertson wrote:
| I always got on fine with laser printer paper. But it was never
| really a hobby - my school required them at one point and at
| another my parents thought it would help my handwriting. If you
| have a bunch of school kids made to use fountain pens, they
| aren't going to be fussing about paper quality; they'll just
| use what they have and be fine with it. I think you don't
| really _need_ certain types of paper. People just like throwing
| money at the bits of their hobby that are easy to throw money
| at.
| waynesonfire wrote:
| It's been a pleasure writing on the HP Printer Paper Premium
| 32 lb paper.
| BeetleB wrote:
| In my experience, most laser printer papers feather heavily
| with fountain pen ink. I buy the Target brand ones, and they
| handle FP ink decently well.
|
| But yes - you definitely need paper that handles the ink
| well. Most notebooks sold in regular American stores do not.
| If your city has a Kinokuniya[1] store, likely most
| stationery sold there will handle it well as fountain pens
| are still used a lot in Japan.
|
| [1] https://usa.kinokuniya.com/
| tristor wrote:
| I collect fountain pens (and other types of pens) and
| paper/stationary. I have been writing extensively by hand for
| many many years. While it is not my overall favorite, I think
| it's important for folks to know that from a writing quality and
| feel perspective that modern low-cost pens are actually /very/
| good, and are the way to go. The Platinum Preppy is every bit as
| good as the majority of classic fountain pens, and better than
| many, very few are better, and you can buy it for under $20
| basically anywhere.
|
| The most important thing for writing with a fountain pen and
| having a good experience is actually the INK, not the pen,
| because the ink determines the flow, forgiveness, and the time to
| dry (which prevents smudging). Additionally, paper has a huge
| influence. I'd recommend investing in good quality paper with
| cotton in their mix. If you don't want to spend a lot but get
| good quality mass-produced stationary, G. Lalo and Clairefontaine
| are both good brands to buy.
| bborud wrote:
| I've found that with regard to ink, there is no one size fits
| all solution. Some pens work with fast-flowing inks, other pens
| don't work as well. So there is some amount of trial and error
| that goes into pairing pen with ink.
| tristor wrote:
| This is very true, the pen, ink, and paper work together to
| form a system. They all have some effect on all of the
| variables such as flow, ease of movement, drying time, etc.
| For the most part modern ink are better in every aspect
| compared to classic inks.
| bborud wrote:
| I'm not sure I understand the difference between modern and
| classic inks. Is there a definition somewhere?
|
| (I have 20-25 ink bottles of ink and by trial and error
| I've roughly figured out what ink works in what pen. I
| probably should know more about inks given that I write a
| lot, but I haven't made any systematic approach to figuring
| this out :-))
| noufalibrahim wrote:
| One data point i can contribute is calligraphic inks.
| Using normal fountain pen ink with a square nib dip pen
| will produce writing that will spread even when dry. The
| binding agent in the ink is designed for much smaller
| strokes.
|
| Calligraphic ink (i use Windsor Newton) is quite
| different and forms something like a scale on the paper
| when dry holding everything in place. You can feel the
| texture of the writing when it's drym
| tristor wrote:
| > I'm not sure I understand the difference between modern
| and classic inks. Is there a definition somewhere?
|
| I'm not sure if there is an official definition. But what
| I mean by this, is that classic inks (like iron gall)
| were usually a combination of pigment and an acid as a
| carrier. Modern inks are usually alcohol or water
| carriers with nano-pigments or dyes, combined with
| surfactants which helps ensure the ink flows well without
| any issues across varied paper types.
|
| Ink has moved forward rather significantly in modern
| times, but I am not a chemist so I can't really get into
| details. I've used (out of some desire for the archaic)
| some correct reproductions of classic inks like iron gall
| or other pigment inks and it is kind of nasty and clogs
| the nib of the pen, but leaves a very permanent mark on
| the paper that has a somewhat unique appearance. I know
| some people prefer something both anachronistic, but I am
| a fan of modern ink for sure.
| noufalibrahim wrote:
| Interesting. I don't collect but i do calligraphy and use a
| fountain pen as my main instrument. I use a noodlers Ahab
| primarily because of a flexible nib. I used a Waterman for a
| long time till sometime I lent it to dropped it. I also have a
| Lamy gifted to me it. It's good but i prefer a narrower nib.
|
| I concur with your point about the ink. I used to use private
| reserve but recently shifted to Waterman and I'm happy. I
| prefer the colour of the later. Another important thing is the
| paper. It needs a bit of a bite that produces a scratchy sound.
| Also, older paper that's exposed to humid environments tend to
| bleed the ink causing bad writing.
| jurassicfoxy wrote:
| Are fountain pens exclusively a right-handed pleasure? I've
| tried, and the smudging has been an insurmountable obstacle.
|
| I would love to hear from some fellow lefties. I love pens, ink,
| and paper, but I feel cursed.
| oriolid wrote:
| I'm left-handed and the basic Platinum Preppy and the blue ink
| that comes with it by default work great for me. My hand
| brushes over the text but the ink dries so fast it's not a
| problem. Some fancier pens with flexible nib that gives more
| control over line width really need that you don't push against
| the grain and are impossible to write with left hand.
| fowtowmowcow wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiZ9ifo4_4U
|
| There seems to be a variety of suggestions and advice on using
| pens left handed on youtube.
| Symbiote wrote:
| I think left-handed people rotate the paper slightly clockwise.
| ben7799 wrote:
| It mostly seems like they suck for us lefties and the articles
| about how to use them are just attempts to sell more fountain
| pens to lefties. The main point of superiority for fountain
| pens is if you are the person selling fountain pens.
|
| A lot of ballpoints absolutely suck for lefties too, but you
| can get good ballpoints that work perfect for left handed
| writing for 30x-100x less than the fountain pens in the
| article. And not have to jump through hoops or go through any
| hassle to get them to work.
| kwhitefoot wrote:
| How can one list classic fountain pens without including
| Platignum? They are actually affordable as well.
|
| https://www.hamiltonpens.com/collections/platignum/products/...
| SlickStef11 wrote:
| Man I love to see posts like this. I didn't know you nerds like
| Fountain pens as well.
|
| just bought a Visconti pen for the first time and Love it.
|
| Pricy, but has a great history.
|
| Mine is the emerald one.
| Apreche wrote:
| For most of my life I hated fountain pens. It turns out that was
| because the ones I tried were cheap, bad, and/or broken.
|
| I gave them one more shot. Again, a lot of them I did not like,
| but the Platinum Preppy was excellent. I wanted to get another
| one with a finer tip, but they were out of stock.
|
| In the meantime I tried some others, and found the Lamy to be
| just as good, if not better. Just for the sake of convenience I
| went all in on Lamy and have no regrets. Wish I could have had
| pens like these back in the day when I was writing more and
| typing less.
| Alifatisk wrote:
| I have Platinum Preppy right know (it's my first fountain pen).
| My goal is to write beautifully in calligraphy.
|
| Which pen would you recommend?
| dbtc wrote:
| If possible, get to a store where you can try a bunch and see
| for yourself.
| earthboundkid wrote:
| I'm the lone Kaweco fan. :-)
| thisisauserid wrote:
| I bought a Pilot Vanishing Point on a whim just assuming I'd love
| it. (No wait, it was after some HN thread around five years ago,
| I think.) Anyway, it's so amazing that I've never considered
| another fountain pen.
|
| What am I missing?
| quantgenius wrote:
| If you enjoy writing and love writing with a Vanishing Point,
| this is a question that is very, very dangerous for your
| pocketbook. :-)
| suzakus wrote:
| The vanishing point (I have many many of these, including
| vintage ones!) has relatively low ink flow compared to some of
| their other pens. Generally, the amount of ink laid out and
| smoothness can vary quite a bit from pen to pen. The physical
| writing experience varies a lot, but if you're happy with it
| and don't want to spend more money on pens you're perfectly
| fine staying on the vanishing point. The convenience is hard to
| beat as well!
| falcolas wrote:
| Another option are dip pens. They do not offer the same writing
| time as a regular fountain pen, but they are easier to clean and
| so let you experiment with exotic inks (such as those with
| particulate in them).
|
| I'm particularly fond of glass dip pens, as they offer a steady
| flow and you can get 2-3 lines of text out before you need to re-
| dip. They're also absurdly easy to clean, as they don't have any
| "pinch" points which can hide ink from you. On the flip side,
| they basically have one "width", which is about a 0.8mm line for
| mine. It's also glass, with everything that entails.
| croisillon wrote:
| ah, this week's axiomdata316's post about fountain pens
| amelius wrote:
| Has anyone here improved their handwriting later in life? How
| much practice did it take?
| rbonvall wrote:
| You can improve just by learning the right technique (how to
| hold the pen, how to write by moving the arm rather than the
| wrist) and learning the proper letter shapes. That won't take
| more than a couple of hours, and from then on you just get
| practice by applying what you learnt whenever you have to write
| something down.
| Alifatisk wrote:
| Yes, I bought a cheap fountain pen together with a book I could
| improve my writing on.
| wise0wl wrote:
| I have improved my handwriting. It took a few months of
| consistent journaling with a fountain pen to find the "font"
| that worked for me. Now, I have different writing styles
| depending on how much time I can take. I use a broad nib for
| quick note taking because I don't have time to make it look
| "good", and a fine flex nib for when I'm journaling which I use
| to flourish things a bit.
| disqard wrote:
| Speaking only for myself, it took a few months of regular
| writing.
|
| Like (perhaps) others, I had been forced to use them in grade
| school -- we were told that "it would improve our handwriting".
| It laid a foundation for fluency in cursive, but my actual
| handwriting was terrible.
|
| However, when I came back to fountain pens (after a couple of
| decades), it was relatively easy to improve my script to where
| I'm happy with it. Having the "cursive" foundation probably
| helped a ton.
| foobarian wrote:
| What advantages do fountain pens still have over modern gel
| ballpoints? I like the whole experience of fountain pens, how
| nice they look and the 'old-school' aspect, but sadly I don't
| feel they are practical any more.
| now__what wrote:
| If you're not a writer or artist, you might not find much
| practical advantage of a fountain pen over a gel pen; I might
| even advise against them. However if you _do_ frequently write
| and /or draw, you'll find the customization to be unmatched:
| you can experiment until you find the exact writing feel you
| prefer, adjusted by ink, nibs, paper types, etc.
|
| Since I found my match in fountain pens, I've found it
| impossible to go back to anything else. The small amount of
| maintenance (refilling and occasionally cleaning) is thoroughly
| outweighed by the tactile sensation of a writing/drawing
| instrument perfectly tuned to my preference. But I'm an amateur
| artist, so finding a well-matched tool is very important to me.
| pizlonator wrote:
| Hard to say if this is objective or not, but here goes...
|
| I find that I write faster with a good, reliable fountain pen
| (like a Sailor) than I do with a ballpoint, gel, rollerball, or
| anything else I've tried. It's my go-to for fast note taking.
|
| On the other hand, there are a lot of cool and fancy fountain
| pens that are net slower to write with due to unreliability.
| MezzoDelCammin wrote:
| IMO the biggest advantage isn't really anything objectively
| measurable. Yes, You can come up with things like smoothness,
| lack of resistance (my personal first reason to switch),
| sustainability, but ultimately IMO You end up with "it just
| feels nice".
|
| To me, the main motivation to use them these days is that it
| simply feels good to use them. After spending some time
| tinkering / cleaning / nib polishing, fountain pens give me the
| same sort of pleasure that one gets from any other good tool -
| a well sharpened knife that just fits into Your hand, a good
| screw driver, a nicely worn in shoe, a well maintained / fitted
| bike... The list goes on. It becomes a sort of a self-
| sustaining feedback loop. The more You use one, the more You
| "want" to use one.
| quantgenius wrote:
| Traditionally, you are supposed to write with less pressure and
| even hold the pen with less pressure. Once you teach yourself
| to do this, it is much less tiring than writing with a ball
| point pen. I write a lot. It's how I think. I'm orders of
| magnitude better at thinking when I use a pen and paper to jot
| and doodle than when I do not.
|
| I also find that writing to take notes is much better than
| notes taken electronically. You can't write fast enough to
| transcribe. So you are forced to pay attention, process the
| information, compress it into nuggets (that may only make sense
| to you) and write those down. The notes aren't the point. The
| process means you retain more and understand better. If I
| wanted a transcription (which is certainly easier with
| electronic methods), I'd simply record.
|
| I injured my wrist and hand a few years ago and simply would
| not be able to write as much as I do if I had to use a ball
| point pen.
|
| Give fountain pens another try. A lot of the things that make
| them "impractical" is only an issue with bottom of the barrel,
| cheap pens.
| waynesonfire wrote:
| There is much more variety to the physical shape of fountain
| pens, in just about every measurable dimension. Then, part of
| the process is to develop a sense of how each pen feels and to
| discover the one that feels best to _YOU_. It's very personal.
| It sort of behaves as a tailored suit.
|
| I should mention that the ink can also influence the feel of
| the pen. There is also that to discover.
| rbonvall wrote:
| Objective advantages are: more ink capacity, more variety of
| ink colors, reduced plastic waste (if you use bottled ink).
| noarchy wrote:
| >What advantages do fountain pens still have over modern gel
| ballpoints?
|
| Bragging points, perhaps: Aside from the hipster cred (see
| also: straight razors and pricey shaving products) there is the
| fact that you have the disposable income to drop hundreds of
| dollars on this tech. Otherwise there are modern ways to write
| that I think are superior, and the wide use of other tech
| suggests that the vast majority have moved on.
| cfiggers wrote:
| The advantages are all minor--mostly it's an aesthetic
| preference rather than a practical one. But there are a few
| small things:
|
| - The mechanism of a fountain pen relies on capillary action
| and gravity rather than the mechanical rolling action of a
| ballpoint. This means you don't have to press the point down
| into the paper almost at all in order to write. This reduces
| writing fatigue, and can even make writing possible for folks
| with carpal tunnel or other sources of wrist pain (like healing
| wrist fractures or other issues).
|
| - Cursive was developed before ballpoints were common. This
| means that there's a bunch of subtle ways that most western
| cursive systems are optimized for the low-friction, gliding
| style of writing with a fixed tip and liquid ink rather than
| the constant pressure style of writing needed for ballpoints.
| It's actually less work and strain with a ballpoint NOT to join
| all your letters together. With a pen that uses liquid ink, it
| suddenly makes sense why not picking the point up from the page
| saves effort.
|
| - Fountain pens (can) use less disposable plastic than
| ballpoints, especially if you're a heavy journaler. A glass
| bottle of liquid ink will last months or years and there's no
| plastic inserts or disposable tips to be thrown away. So if you
| care about that sort of thing, a little bit less waste is an
| objective advantage.
|
| - Bottles of ink are cheaper per page written than most
| ballpoint refills. But, this is an invisible benefit to most
| because depending on how far you get into the hobby you'll
| inevitably end up spending much more on pens and paper than you
| would've ever spent on ballpoint refills.
|
| - The ink choices are way more diverse and interesting with
| fountain pens than with ballpoints. There's many color options
| available, and some inks have special properties, like drying
| with fun reflective spots wherever the ink pools or containing
| microscopic glitter particles to make your writing sparkly.
|
| - Fountain pens, depending on the specific design, are better
| suited for certain styles of calligraphy than most ballpoint
| pens are.
|
| But most people who get into fountain pens and ink do so
| because of aesthetics, not anything objectively superior.
| danShumway wrote:
| Generally agreed on all points, they're pens that feel good
| to write with and have little aesthetic joys to them that
| make writing more enjoyable. I like unscrewing the top of a
| pen. It's a little spark of joy. But it's mostly aesthetic
| and is likely fairly subjective.
|
| > It's actually less work and strain with a ballpoint NOT to
| join all your letters together.
|
| This to me is the biggest observable, practical difference
| that comes out of the capillary system of the pen.
| Anecdotally, my handwriting improved quite a bit when I
| started using a fountain pen.
| mfringel wrote:
| The biggest advantage fountain pens have is physics.
|
| Ink flow in a fountain pen is via capillary action (touch nib
| to paper, ink flows), as opposed to a ballpoint pen where you
| have to apply a small constant amount of downward force for the
| ball to have enough friction against the paper for the ball to
| roll. This might not seem like a big deal, but if you're
| writing a lot, it means that your wrist & hand will get much
| more fatigued with a ballpoint over time.
|
| Put another way, ballpoints have absolute advantage over
| fountain pens, _except_ for "sitting down and writing a lot."
| chema wrote:
| I am glad to see Schon DSGN there. I got myself a brass "Pocket
| Six" a few years ago and it is amazing. I use it daily. It is
| small and write like a dream. The owner now makes his own nib,
| which looks amazing. Highly recommended.
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