[HN Gopher] People Put Nearly $1B into Apple Savings Accounts in...
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       People Put Nearly $1B into Apple Savings Accounts in First 4 Days
        
       Author : ourmandave
       Score  : 27 points
       Date   : 2023-05-01 19:34 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (gizmodo.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (gizmodo.com)
        
       | 0zemp2c wrote:
       | for people who just want a place to dump their paychecks and have
       | a credit card attached, this looks like a win
       | 
       | the bar is set pretty low right now, maybe people are just better
       | off running daily expenses through a stable company that isn't a
       | traditional bank
        
         | bsder wrote:
         | I always wondered what would finally take down Apple. Now we
         | know it will be a financial arm.
         | 
         | Every normal company that gets into finance eventually pays the
         | price. At some point, that nice, profitable finanical arm will
         | go into distress and the company will attempt to bail it out
         | with funds from other arms. This cycle will repeat until it
         | either kills the company or the financial arm after it has
         | sucked down more money than you can imagine.
         | 
         | Westinghouse and GE are more recent ones, but the list goes
         | much further back.
        
           | Spivak wrote:
           | I think the fact that these are really Goldman Sachs accounts
           | probably buys them some stability.
        
           | wallstprog wrote:
           | Maybe, but the actual "bank" in this arrangement is Goldman
           | Sachs, and they are one of the more established players in
           | finance.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _the actual "bank" in this arrangement is Goldman Sachs,
             | and they are one of the more established players in
             | finance_
             | 
             | Cupertino is also hosing Goldman in this relationship [1].
             | 
             | [1] https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/16/apple-card-future-
             | goldmans-sa...
        
               | shagie wrote:
               | That needs to be put into context of the cost to acquire
               | a customer.
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_acquisition_cost
               | 
               | Various sources:
               | 
               | $80 https://askwonder.com/research/average-customer-
               | acquisition-...
               | 
               | > The short version is that it costs around $80 to
               | acquire a customer who returns about $120 in profit.
               | 
               | https://medium.com/unifimoney/changing-the-vicious-cycle-
               | of-...
               | 
               | > It costs on average around $200 to acquire a credit
               | card customer in the US (up to and beyond $1,000 if they
               | are affluent cards like MasterCard World Elite and Visa
               | Infinite).
               | 
               | https://runningwithmiles.boardingarea.com/apple-card-
               | custome...
               | 
               | > The Apple Card doesn't need any affiliates or marketing
               | yet analysts say that this new card has a customer
               | acquisition cost of $350 and will take several years for
               | Goldman Sachs to turn a profit on it.
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | So the corresponding part of that is "we spent a lot to
               | get a lot of customers. If they remain loyal, then GS
               | will have something quite profitable for a long time."
               | Spending $350 per customer is more than the $200
               | mentioned... but also much less than the $1000 for high
               | end cards (and the tales of Chase Sapphire Reserve).
        
       | JohnFen wrote:
       | Has anyone here done this? I'm curious about why. What's the draw
       | for you?
        
         | norgie wrote:
         | I haven't, but I'm guessing the interest rate (4.15%) on its
         | own is a big draw
        
           | Our_Benefactors wrote:
           | It's this. The biggest limitation I saw was that you can only
           | transfer out $20k per 7 days, no wire transfers.
        
         | overtfuture wrote:
         | I signed up, and it's mostly the rate and the ease to have
         | rewards just deposited right into the account. The daily cash
         | account seemed to always be used to pay off the Apple Card so
         | it's nice to have something where the money just accumulates.
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | I have read up on it but I don't get the appeal (i.e. what the
       | benefits are).
       | 
       | My US bank allows me to write checks (I don't actually have a
       | checkbook, but I use bill pay which it will do electronically if
       | it can and by issuing a paper check if not) and make various
       | transfers, like Zelle. This has comparatively very limited
       | payment capability. How would you pay your mortgage? There are
       | even very strict restrictions on moving your cash out!
       | 
       | It does have a higher interest rate than some banks, at least at
       | the moment, but you can get these rates from competitors without
       | the other limitations.
       | 
       | In general all the current Apple banking offers (apple card,
       | apple cash, apple savings account) seem pretty meh, and
       | definitely far from great, much less "insanely great". The only
       | Apple financial product I consider even worth remembering was
       | financing your mac purchase back in 1984.
       | 
       | It's also a weird space for Apple to get into: it's highly
       | regulated, has limited (at best) connection/leverage/flywheel
       | with the rest of their product line or company capability, and
       | doesn't even use anything apple-specific (not even their enormous
       | cash horde).
        
         | r00fus wrote:
         | FYI Apple Card / Apple Savings are run by Goldman Sachs &
         | Apple. So I'm guessing they found some value in this operation.
         | 
         | I agree its offering is very mid (just like Apple Card) so I
         | don't use it but for some opening a new account elsewhere is
         | challenging.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | Goldman's recent earnings report said they were taking a bath
           | on their foray into the consumer sector, having lost $3B in
           | the process, with a half a billion on consumer loans alone.*
           | I don't imagine they'd be doing the Apple bank account if
           | they weren't contractually obligated. Or maybe they just
           | think there's a hope for some Apple pixie dust.
           | 
           | * https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/18/business/goldman-
           | sachs-1q...
        
         | blinded wrote:
         | put 100k at 4% vs what a savings account at a bank gives you
         | thats a grocery bill a month in profit.
        
           | dustincoates wrote:
           | But why would you put $100k in savings? There are so many
           | better places that are going to get you more than a monthly
           | grocery bill over time.
        
             | gedy wrote:
             | And not lose money unpredictably? Do tell. (I realize 4% is
             | less than inflation)
        
               | gumby wrote:
               | Money market
        
               | GreedClarifies wrote:
               | Looks like vanguard (vmfxx) is offering 4.78 and apple is
               | offering 4.15. That's about 60 bps, it's not world
               | changing, but vmfxx is a better deal but it may be a
               | little more cumbersome for some.
        
               | gedy wrote:
               | Are the rates much higher? Didn't seem so at the online
               | banks.
        
               | gumby wrote:
               | First think I looked at was vio, more than 50 bps higher.
        
               | blinded wrote:
               | Any docs or how-tos youd recommend?
        
             | frumper wrote:
             | If you're looking to use that 100k soon, maybe for a new
             | house, or saving to start a business, then you want very
             | safe and liquid options. 4% is close enough to other safe
             | options that if it's easy then that's good enough for some
             | people.
        
               | gumby wrote:
               | Money market is completely liquid.
        
         | fckgw wrote:
         | I have an Apple card. I had a few hundred bucks in Apple Cash I
         | earned from cash back just sitting there doing nothing so I
         | swept it off into Apple Savings so sit there and do nothing but
         | at least earn a little interest on it.
         | 
         | I'd imagine the majority of the new accounts have done this as
         | well. It's a secondary, not primary, banking account.
        
           | aeadio wrote:
           | Were you not aware you could transfer that cash to a normal
           | checking account?
        
             | catchnear4321 wrote:
             | What normal checking account pays those rates?
             | 
             | Sure, you could then bounce it to a savings account that
             | pays those rates, or better. The rate isn't everything.
             | 
             | Apple created a very friendly path of least resistance.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | fakedang wrote:
         | Apple's value add is like Vercel's value add (drawing from the
         | other thread on the front page) - user experience for people
         | who can't be bothered to deal with all the hard bad stuff. It
         | will work up to a certain limit, but once you want the
         | slightest of extra features, you're going to land in a tough
         | spot.
        
       | blinded wrote:
       | I put my emergency fund + some in betterment with the same
       | savings rate years ago. It does pay off. Smart of apple to do
       | this.
        
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       (page generated 2023-05-01 23:02 UTC)