[HN Gopher] Lithium-ion batteries a growing fire hazard in NYC g...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Lithium-ion batteries a growing fire hazard in NYC garbage trucks
        
       Author : pseudolus
       Score  : 95 points
       Date   : 2023-05-01 12:52 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (gothamist.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (gothamist.com)
        
       | 1-6 wrote:
       | Talk about dumpster fires. In all seriousness, though. it should
       | be relatively easy to find who's responsible for the fire. Fines
       | prevent that trend from getting out of hand.
        
         | mc32 wrote:
         | How? Anyone can dump batteries in anyone's curbside bin. Also
         | in apartment complexes bins contain everyone's refuse.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _in apartment complexes bins contain everyone's refuse_
           | 
           | This is a solved problem. Sanitation fines the building.
           | Building deals with the problem internally.
        
             | Wowfunhappy wrote:
             | I'm not actually clear how the building would deal with the
             | problem either! Everyone's trash goes down one garbage
             | chute. I'm not sure exactly how many units are in my
             | building, but some quick math makes me think it's well over
             | 100.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _not actually clear how the building would deal with
               | the problem either_
               | 
               | Every New Yorker is familiar with buildings putting up
               | signs admonishing residents for not properly separating
               | their recycling. If it's a recurring problem, the super
               | will inspect it before putting it out.
               | 
               | The bigger issue is we don't have an easy way to detect
               | batteries in trash before they've taken out a truck. So
               | this discussion is largely hypothetical.
        
             | mc32 wrote:
             | That's problematic. The ash and rubbish containers are
             | often accessible from the street. Now they would fine a
             | complex because it has insufficient surveillance?
             | 
             | I don't think there is an easy solution to this other than
             | requiring battery mfgs to make safer batteries and consumer
             | education.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _they would fine a complex because it has insufficient
               | surveillance_
               | 
               | This is the _status quo_ with trash and recycling in New
               | York [1]. It looks like there is already a schedule for
               | rechargeable battery disposal.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.nyc.gov/html/ecb/downloads/pdf/Sanitation
               | Penalty...
        
               | mc32 wrote:
               | I can see where half of those fines are rarely enforced.
               | I don't see this as having viable enforcement. I think
               | the main solutions are educational (make it easy to
               | properly dispose batteries) and making the batteries
               | safer.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _can see where half of those fines are rarely enforced_
               | 
               | The efficient amount of enforcement is difficult to
               | estimate. For recycling, at least, it works well enough.
               | I imagine jacking up fines and increasing spot
               | enforcement should be enough to motivate upstream
               | behavior in the buildings, _e.g._ posting signs or
               | deploying a separate bin.
        
         | asah wrote:
         | large apartment buildings are common in nyc and they combine
         | trash from many units, making it impractical.
        
         | magicalhippo wrote:
         | > it should be relatively easy to find who's responsible for
         | the fire
         | 
         | How is it easy? The fire can start long after the batteries are
         | introduced into the trucks. Here in Norway they're a major
         | cause of fires at the facilities handling the garbage[1].
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.nrk.no/tromsogfinnmark/228-branner-i-norske-
         | avfa...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | morninglight wrote:
       | Battery powered Lawnmowers.
       | 
       | It is amazing to see the intense marketing directed to
       | rechargeable mowers. Well over half the mower display space in
       | many large home improvement stores.
       | 
       | It is going to be interesting to see if these create a fire
       | hazard in the suburbs. Don't let your fire insurance lapse.
        
       | asah wrote:
       | sigh, solution is probably additional fireproofing for garbage
       | trucks <== sadly, I'm serious because deterrence is impractical.
        
         | chewbacha wrote:
         | Perhaps we need hazardous collection bins just for this. I have
         | a collection of spent batteries that I need to dispose of but
         | it's been inconvenient enough that I haven't brought them to a
         | collection center yet.
        
       | Saris wrote:
       | It is difficult to figure out what to do with old Li-ion
       | batteries, some local stores accept certain types for recycling,
       | but I have a few larger batteries from ebikes and power tools
       | that they won't take, and I can't figure out what to do with
       | them.
       | 
       | For now they just sit in the garage.
       | 
       | I would like to see some kind of system where the cost of
       | recycling is paid up-front when the battery is purchased, and
       | there are easy to find locations to drop them off, or to mail
       | them for smaller ones.
        
         | Symbiote wrote:
         | That's more or less what we have in the EU, although the
         | implementation varies between countries.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_Electrical_and_Electroni...
         | 
         | In Denmark there are electronic waste bins in apartment
         | buildings (with the usual recycling bins), and placed somewhere
         | around the neighbourhood for houses. There's also a steel
         | cupboard for hazardous waste.
         | 
         | I notice there's a limit of 500g for batteries, so large ones
         | should be taken to the neighbourhood recycling centre or a
         | place that sells them.
        
         | acd wrote:
         | Thats a smart system. In Sweden and other countries there is
         | pant, pantamera "container deposit system" you recycle
         | aluminium cans in the store. One reason it takes a lot of
         | energy to melt aluminium which you use to make aluminium cans.
         | 
         | You should get money back when recycling electronics so there
         | is an economic incentive todo recycling.
        
         | whatever1 wrote:
         | At the very minimum we should mandate the stores that sell
         | products that include batteries to have collection points for
         | the products and their batteries.
         | 
         | I bought a power bank from Best Buy that was recalled, and when
         | I tried to return it for disposal, I was told to look for local
         | recycling companies.
        
           | detaro wrote:
           | That's how it is implemented in Germany: If you sell
           | batteries or battery-containing devices, you have to take
           | batteries in for recycling. (Now I wouldn't necessarily
           | expect every tiny corner store that sells single-use vapes to
           | do a proper job of that, but normal store chains will do so)
        
       | withinrafael wrote:
       | Just throwing out there, Apple accepts their own batteries in any
       | condition. I showed up to one of their stores with a friend's
       | swollen (spicy pillow) old MacBook battery in a metal trash can
       | and they put on hazmat gear, came outside the store, and took
       | care of it. They curiously also have you sign some paperwork
       | stating you're not getting the battery back.
       | 
       | I'm not an Apple hardware user or fan but I was pretty impressed
       | with how professionally they took care of that.
        
       | calvinmorrison wrote:
       | the reason people dump batteries is because doing so the proper
       | way is often onerous. In my parents locale, you have to contact
       | the sanitation department ahead of time, arrange a drop off time,
       | head to the place, provide ID (to confirm you're not from
       | somewhere else?) , etc. A lot easier to just throw it in the
       | trash.
        
         | sirsinsalot wrote:
         | In the UK every Tesco supermarket (at least) has a battery
         | disposal box. I never see it used.
         | 
         | I'm not sure even ready access to disposal works.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _because doing so the proper way is often onerous_
         | 
         | Or badly publicized. The Goodwill around the corner is a
         | designated battery drop-off site. You would never know it
         | without specifically looking that up.
        
           | LeifCarrotson wrote:
           | If you could just throw "Battery recycling" into Apple/Google
           | Maps or OpenStreetMap (which has Tag:amenity=recycling and
           | recycling:batteries for the purpose), I think you'd get a lot
           | of these issues resolved. None of these offer reasonable
           | results when I look this up near me.
           | 
           | People know they're supposed to recycle batteries. My old
           | employer had a bin of dead cell phones, laptop batteries, and
           | power tool batteries (and people kept throwing in alkalines);
           | my parents inexplicably had a cardboard box fire hazard for a
           | similar purpose but don't know where to bring them.
           | 
           | One tool that does this is
           | https://www.call2recycle.org/locator/ (they might get would
           | get better coverage in some demographics with "text2recycle"
           | or "websearch2recycle" domains). Why the data isn't in the
           | tools people typically use to find this information, I don't
           | know - it seems to be a political rather than technical
           | problem.
           | 
           | There's a Lowes, Home Depot, Comprenew, Goodwill, and
           | sanitary transfer station that all take these batteries for
           | free with a minimum of fuss, and are all within 5 miles of
           | both of the aforementioned boxes of spicy pillows. But you
           | have to know that to use them.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _If you could just throw "Battery recycling" into
             | Apple/Google Maps or OpenStreetMap (which has
             | Tag:amenity=recycling and recycling:batteries for the
             | purpose), I think you'd get a lot of these issues resolved.
             | None of these offer reasonable results when I look this up
             | near me_
             | 
             | This is a great idea.
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | Also removing batteries is often impossible, e.g. smoke
         | detectors that have them soldered in.
         | 
         | All you need to solve this issue is:
         | 
         | 1. All batteries must be easily removable with no screws
         | (except for toys).
         | 
         | 2. All supermarkets must accept waste batteries of any form.
        
         | pwg wrote:
         | > the reason people dump batteries is because doing so the
         | proper way is often onerous.
         | 
         | Another likely reason, and likely the biggest one as well, is:
         | how many folks, outside of the HN/techie crowd, are even aware
         | of what "kind" of battery is in their various devices and is
         | even aware that there are special rules for many battery types?
         | 
         | Yes, the user guides (if one is even provided) do often have a
         | page about "do not throw in the trash" -- but how many actually
         | read the guides, much less the "warnings" page? And, more
         | importantly, how many even know where the guide is at the end-
         | of-life for the device when they are throwing it away in order
         | to look up what special handling is needed?
         | 
         | Yes, there's the trashcan with the slash icon on the back of
         | the device. How many of the non-HN/techie crowd even know what
         | that icon means to register enough that there is something
         | 'different' about this item vs. everything else they throw
         | away? And, how many even think to look on the back vs. just
         | tossing the device in a trash bin?
        
           | serf wrote:
           | > how many folks, outside of the HN/techie crowd, are even
           | aware of what "kind" of battery is in their various devices
           | and is even aware that there are special rules for many
           | battery types?
           | 
           | why do they bother needing to know? If it has a battery :
           | "Right this way!" .
           | 
           | and more specifically -- nearly every 'high-tech' device of
           | any kind has a battery that requires precaution during the
           | post-consumer phase -- is it even worth distinguishing what
           | kind of battery goes where at this point for the consumer,
           | aside from an allowed luxury of chucking something carelessly
           | into the trash?
        
       | mdip wrote:
       | A related problem just hit me this weekend. I had removed a
       | failed/bulged Lithium Ion battery from a week ago and placed it
       | with my others to be taken during the one time a year that
       | garbage collection allows us to bring the toxic stuff to them for
       | recycling (later this year...).
       | 
       | Fast forward to this week and the battery is nearly twice its
       | size. A while back I decided to repair a bunch of failed Ryobi
       | Li-Ion packs (taking them apart, testing the 18650 cells
       | independently and rebuilding each with all new cells of the same
       | specifications)[0]. I'd done this several times over the years
       | with various battery packs made up of 18650 cells[1].
       | 
       | While basically ignoring all of the intelligent warnings for
       | handling/dealing with these cells[0], I managed to short one of
       | the _visibly_ bad cells for long enough to turn the battery into
       | what might be a very respectable, completely out of control, blow
       | torch.
       | 
       | The heat from the flame caused me to immediately drop it and
       | everything I was holding but despite being in my hand for all of
       | maybe 10 milliseconds, it managed to leave a permanent scar
       | (which serves as a reminder for me every time I decide I'm going
       | to risk my limbs to save a few bucks to ... at least ... be a
       | whole hell of a lot more careful).
       | 
       | My question is: what in the hell do I do with this expanding
       | pouch battery? I can't take it to the "toxic waste day" event
       | until the fall. I know these pouch batteries are as prone to
       | torching as much as the 18650 cells and this one is growing so
       | fast that it was noticeable.
       | 
       | Are there any options beyond: (a) Toss it in one of the
       | "Electronics Recycling" boxes at a big box store (are those still
       | a thing?) -- I am concerned for the safety of the staff/store.
       | (b) Same but get one of those "mail away" bags -- I would _never_
       | do this; trading a garbage truck fire for a mail truck fire isn
       | 't an improvement and I'm sure it's as illegal as: (c) Hide it in
       | the garbage and hope for the best -- see the article and "b" for
       | why I won't do this, either. And finally, the only option my
       | garbage carrier gives me: (d) Find some magical way to store this
       | thing until the fall when my garbage carrier will let me drive it
       | to their facility for Toxic Stuff Day. By then it'll be in a box
       | of melted goo.
       | 
       | For the moment, I went with (d) and placed it inside of a
       | container from a kiln I hacked together a few years ago ... which
       | sits in the center of the cement floor of my shed[2].
       | 
       | I don't like any of these options -- anyone else been in a
       | similar spot and found a good solution?
       | 
       | [0] I am not a battery guy or an electrical engineer, just a
       | typical hacker with the driving force being: "What could possibly
       | go wrong?"
       | 
       | [1] Pretty much every notebook from that era (gifted to me as
       | "I'm just going to throw this out, do you want it?) had
       | detachable packs made up of combinations of 18650 cells wired
       | together.
       | 
       | [2] I learned I built this pretty well after it took a real world
       | test with some mixed molten metals and other materials that left
       | the entire interior covered in a layer of black "something" but
       | did no damage otherwise.
        
         | r2_pilot wrote:
         | I believe one way to safely discharge LiPo batteries to render
         | them safe for regular garbage disposal is to fully submerge
         | them in a saturated saltwater solution for more than 24 hours
         | until the cell is fully discharged(some lipo chargers also have
         | a discharge feature). You may still be required to separate
         | them from household waste depending on local regulations, but
         | it shouldn't combust once the voltage is 0.
        
       | itslennysfault wrote:
       | Random gripe, but it's weird they used a picture of a charger and
       | not a battery for the article.
        
         | MSFT_Edging wrote:
         | I think that's due to several charging related incidents in
         | apartments with bigger e-bike batteries.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | walthamstow wrote:
       | Expecting this to happen in London this summer, in dustbin vans
       | (garbage trucks) and in public bins e.g. in city parks. Lithium
       | batteries from disposable nicotine vapes (elf bar is one brand)
       | are absolutely everywhere and have been since the autumn.
        
         | blairbeckwith wrote:
         | I largely quit vaping right before the rise of disposable vape
         | pens and it is mindblowing to me that they were allowed - by
         | any group including the manufacturers, governments, even
         | consumers - to become a thing. They seem from the outside to be
         | significantly more expensive to produce, tons more e-waste, and
         | not much more convenient than pod systems.
        
           | abawany wrote:
           | bigclivedotcom had a video on yt where he started collecting
           | these disposable vapes off the street and salvaging the
           | batteries for his projects. It was sad to see that so many of
           | these 'disposable' products are thrown away by many without
           | any care.
           | 
           | Edit: example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7XB6D7q92g
        
       | malchow wrote:
       | For those who haven't seen it, worth looking at BrakeFlow, a
       | feature of the new Si-anode Enovix batteries.
       | 
       | Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8eSEoOy8JY
        
       | thechao wrote:
       | I feel like a general-purpose law of the form: "if you sell it,
       | you must recycle it" would nip a lot of this crap in the bud. For
       | instance: my local paint store will happily sell you
       | barrel's-full of paint that is then well-nigh impossible for me
       | to dispose of; same for gas, batteries, plastic bags, ...
        
         | robotnikman wrote:
         | How would this work for online retailers like Amazon? I feel
         | like a big chunk of lithium batteries comes from there.
        
           | lucb1e wrote:
           | I don't understand the question. Proposal: if you sell it,
           | you must recycle it. Question: how would an online shop do
           | this? Obvious answer: by accepting the to-be-recycled
           | product, just like an offline store? Whether they do the
           | actual recycling themselves or contract a third party is up
           | to them of course, but that's the same with any local kiosk
           | that happens to sell batteries.
           | 
           | (Not saying I think it's a good or bad proposal btw. It
           | sounds good, but there's going to be uncountable cases where
           | the original retailer does not exist anymore, or you don't
           | know where you bought something, or you've moved, etc.
           | Whether to just accept that and consider it a net win, or if
           | a deposit system would work better, no idea. I just don't see
           | the problem with online stores having to accept goods they
           | sold for recycling.)
        
         | Clamchop wrote:
         | I've long thought that the cost of proper disposal for all
         | products should be paid for at the time of manufacture as a tax
         | and built into the price, and then sanitation services are paid
         | for out of this fund ahead of time.
         | 
         | We need everything to be disposed of properly, whoever that
         | responsibility ultimately falls to, so it's unfortunate that we
         | charge consumers at the end of the line for disposal. It's
         | leaky and creates a perverse incentive for pollution, dumping,
         | trash burning, etc.
         | 
         | And products that are harder to recycle or dispose of would
         | cost more than cleaner alternatives, creating gentle economic
         | pressure to produce and buy more sustainable goods.
         | 
         | Right now, we might not even have a plan for proper disposal
         | before something is sold. This seems to have happened with
         | electronics.
        
           | thechao wrote:
           | I like this, too, but I think it's hard to find out what the
           | clearing-cost for the market is top-down. Especially for
           | things "like recycling". Instead, I'd just make it a market
           | problem. The point is to find a good balance between
           | regulation ("recycling costs this much") and natural market
           | conditions ("fuck it! throw it in the ocean!").
        
         | linkjuice4all wrote:
         | A deposit refund [0] similar to what's already in place for
         | bottles and cans in some states might be the way to go if
         | enough states/counties would actually implement it.
         | 
         | It allows for consumers to consider the "full cost" of being
         | inconsiderate and not recycling properly while not "actually"
         | increasing the cost of the product if they properly dispose of
         | it. It also created a secondary market for scrapers/recyclers
         | to collect and deposit items so there's another chance it won't
         | enter the waste steam.
         | 
         | [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deposit-refund_system
        
           | unregistereddev wrote:
           | The deposit refund system also needs to be worth the effort.
           | My state has a $0.05 deposit on bottles and cans. I used to
           | save the original packaging, put the empties back in the box,
           | and take the boxes to the the customer service counter at the
           | grocery store. It was worth it for a little pocket change.
           | 
           | Now? It's all mechanized. I have to feed cans one by one into
           | a machine that reads the barcode to be sure it is a product
           | the store sells. Different machines accept cans vs bottles.
           | This is a slow process. You often need to wait in line for
           | each machine. Sometimes the machines are broken, or sometimes
           | even a working machine fails to read the barcode and rejects
           | 10% of your cans or bottles. When you are done, you take
           | printed slips from the machines to customer service and wait
           | in line to exchange them for cash.
           | 
           | It's not worth it. I still recycle, but I toss cans and
           | bottles into my recycling bin and forgo the deposit.
        
             | Ekaros wrote:
             | Just have to get sufficiently advanced machine.
             | 
             | I love that my nearby store has one of these:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4n62Okcf50
             | 
             | Takes plastic and aluminium cans. Just empty a sackful
             | inside and it automatically sorts them for you. Takes about
             | 5 minutes for some 120l+.
        
               | olyjohn wrote:
               | Back when I lived in Oregon, they just paid some kid
               | minimum wage to sort it. Those guys were fast at sorting
               | too. They could get through 2 or 3 30 gallon bags in just
               | a few minutes.
        
         | rcme wrote:
         | Does your town not offer hazardous waste disposal?
        
       | mkmk wrote:
       | The FDNY is on a tear against e-bike batteries this year, after
       | numerous fires and several deaths attributed to lithium-ion
       | battery charging. Several charging locations have been shut down,
       | and commercial landlords are required to post warnings/many have
       | banned ebikes from their buildings entirely.
       | 
       | https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/e-bike-batteries-blame...
        
         | tpmx wrote:
         | "25 fires that caused 36 injuries and two deaths" during
         | jan/feb 2023 alone.
        
         | toss1 wrote:
         | Nice idea of the FDNY.
         | 
         | Now, FDNY and sanitation need to do something ACTUALLY ADEQUATE
         | to solve the problem.
         | 
         | IOW, they must make it _CONVENIENT_ to properly dispose of
         | batteries
         | 
         | >>introduced a bill to require the sanitation department to
         | develop a plan for educating New Yorkers about the proper
         | disposal of these batteries, including holding regular disposal
         | events.
         | 
         | >>The city has a dedicated hazardous waste disposal site in
         | each borough -- but the hours of operation for these sites are
         | limited.
         | 
         | These measures are a dumb waste of time. Everyone already has a
         | list a mile-and-a-half long of things they _should_ do, and
         | properly disposing of batteries is already on it. Many of the
         | things on everyone 's list never get done.
         | 
         | If they want it done, they need to make it _easy_ to do. Heck,
         | just hang some small-ish double-walled steel bins on the trash
         | trucks, and ask people to put their batteries next to their
         | trans bins instead of inside them. At least that 'll be a start
         | until a more permanent solution is designed.
         | 
         | They are a major inconvenience for everyone. Only the most
         | conscientious people who have the extra time will do it.
        
           | mdip wrote:
           | > The city has a dedicated hazardous waste disposal site in
           | each borough -- but the hours of operation for these sites
           | are limited.
           | 
           | Where I live, the waste hauler offers a single _day_ per
           | _year_ where consumers can take hazardous waste for disposal.
           | 
           | And AFAIK, that's been the case everywhere I've lived since I
           | was a child.
        
             | NoZebra120vClip wrote:
             | My city offers a big festival day about 4 times per year,
             | but these are not exclusive. I think they are more
             | expansive where they will accept all kinds of things, even
             | clothes, and third-party recyclers are on-site to accept
             | and process them.
             | 
             | The actual recycling center is open about 4 days a week and
             | accepting a lot of nasty stuff on a regular basis. Thank
             | God for that. In-city ID is mandatory.
        
       | thomasjb wrote:
       | Perhaps a used battery purchase scheme would be a good solution?
       | There is some value to the used batteries, if the city paid a
       | premium over that, the problem would most likely decrease
       | significantly. By paying more per kilo for the larger batteries
       | (which pose the greatest risk of injury), city workers would be
       | much safer. The city could even create a market for the recycled
       | Lithium by requiring its use in equipment supplied to the city
        
         | ComputerGuru wrote:
         | I think that's a great idea but speaking from personal
         | experience with family and friends, the biggest obstacle seems
         | to be effort. Especially for sufficiently well-off individuals,
         | it isn't financial motivation but rather having clear, easily
         | accessible, and widely known alternatives that require minimum
         | extra effort or travel that would probably do more to alleviate
         | situation.
        
           | thomasjb wrote:
           | I would like to think that the well off would behave in a
           | manner similar to how people in Germany who can't be bothered
           | taking their bottles back for pfand do: They leave them
           | beside the bin where people who want to can collect them and
           | cash them in
        
       | bedast wrote:
       | I feel like there's not enough easily accessible information in
       | the wild about what you're supposed to do with old electronics,
       | and especially batteries. You're not supposed to throw any type
       | of battery in the trash, let alone ones that get really angry
       | when abused. And places that used to take old batteries seem to
       | be refusing them now. I have a small box of old batteries I've
       | been looking to dispose of and I'm running out of places to try
       | and give them to.
       | 
       | It especially doesn't help that electronics, including with non-
       | replaceable batteries, including those that get angry when
       | abused, are being designed to be disposable to begin with.
       | 
       | And yeah, I know there's a high level of apathy about the problem
       | with the masses. Even though the information can be, for the most
       | part, found, people just don't care enough.
        
         | verelo wrote:
         | Not only that, but disposal is painful. In my city i have to
         | drive to the disposal centre 30-45 mins away on a specific day
         | of the month.
         | 
         | So yeah, naturally people don't do that.
        
           | stevehawk wrote:
           | same. my local drop off is one day a month at the local
           | prison which is ~25 minutes away. and commercial store that
           | takes items for recycling is twice that distance.
        
             | travisporter wrote:
             | Wow i'm curious why prison?
        
           | shiftpgdn wrote:
           | In my city we have these big clothing donation bins in the
           | corner of the parking lot at most major strip malls: Example:
           | https://patch.com/img/cdn/users/82019/2013/06/raw/d5b3360843.
           | ..
           | 
           | With scrap batteries being worth 5-50 cents per pound it
           | would be worth just sticking a handful of these, but labeled
           | as "used battery drop off point" in high visibility areas. It
           | won't stop people from maliciously throwing away batteries
           | but would remove the lazy factor.
        
             | NoZebra120vClip wrote:
             | I hate to break it to you, but "clothing and shoe donation"
             | bins in mall parking lots are generally commercial
             | enterprises, rather than non-profits or charities, and I
             | suppose people get good feels from dropping off there while
             | they're shopping, but the community would be better served
             | if you gave direct to a charity such as St. Vincent de Paul
             | Society Thrift Stores.
             | 
             | As for scrap batteries being tossed into a bin at a mall,
             | I'm not seeing that end well. It is more or less trivial to
             | look up recycle facilities in your area and take stuff to
             | the appropriate drop-off. Personally, I take eWaste into
             | Best Buy or Staples, and my own city government runs a
             | large recycling center that will take almost anything.
             | 
             | https://earth911.com/
        
               | LiquidInsect wrote:
               | That website lists at least two locations near me that no
               | longer exist, and the entries show they were last updated
               | over 12 years ago.
        
           | wahnfrieden wrote:
           | I go to Best Buy or Ikea
        
             | verelo wrote:
             | In my case, both are the same distance, but you're right
             | their hours are better!
        
             | jackmott42 wrote:
             | Best Buy may not take them if the battery is visibly
             | damaged. I tried to dispose of a laptop with swelled
             | battery and was refused.
        
         | fhub wrote:
         | I put all electronic stuff that has no resale value in a box
         | and then once a year drop it at an Apple store. I trust Apple
         | to do the right thing as they have a reputation to uphold. They
         | take 3rd party stuff as well and batteries etc.
        
         | gnramires wrote:
         | In Brazil where I live, there are laws requiring battery
         | manufacturers to collect (almost all) spent batteries,
         | preventing them from getting in landfills. So finding battery
         | disposal bins in buildings and so on has become common.
         | (classic market failure!)
        
         | bobbylarrybobby wrote:
         | Even if you know you're not supposed to just toss batteries in
         | the trash, getting them to a recycling center can be a pain.
         | Each borough runs, I believe, a single hazardous items drop off
         | day per year -- are people really supposed to hold onto
         | batteries for an average of six months?
         | 
         | It turns out that Staples, Lowe's, and Home Depot will
         | generally take your batteries for you, but I've never seen this
         | advertised anywhere.
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | In San Mateo, CA we were instructed to dispose of batteries by
         | simply placing them atop the bin in a clearly labeled plastic
         | bag on the usual trash pick-up day.
         | 
         | Recology was the organization handling the recycling IIRC...
         | 
         | Edit: Yep!
         | 
         | https://www.recology.com/recology-san-mateo-county/hazardous...
        
         | quartz wrote:
         | In theory every store that sells rechargeable batteries in NYC
         | is also supposed to accept them for disposal.
         | 
         | I've found that occasionally true... but as you say for things
         | like laptops without removable batteries it feels a little
         | weird to just leave them in the piles by the door that many of
         | these stores have.
        
         | potatofrenzy wrote:
         | I think part of the problem is that the rules are just kinda...
         | stupid? There is absolutely no reason why regular alkaline
         | batteries can't end up in household garbage. They don't contain
         | heavy metals or anything else that'd make them dangerous.
         | 
         | The rules are basically like this because the regulators
         | figured you're too dumb to know which types of batteries are
         | bad for the environment (lead-acid, the now-obsolete Ni-Cd,
         | less significantly NiMH). And sure, better-tailored rules would
         | confuse some folks, but I bet that compliance would be higher
         | for the really bad stuff.
        
           | whaleofatw2022 wrote:
           | Alkaline batteries contain manganese dioxide, which is
           | certainly not as bad as the rechargeable types but still is a
           | health hazard in enough quantity. "Heavy duty" (zinc-carbon)
           | has the same concern AFAIK
        
           | aborochoff wrote:
           | At least in nyc alkaline batteries do go in the normal trash.
           | 
           | https://www.nyc.gov/assets/dsny/site/services/harmful-
           | produc...
        
           | joecool1029 wrote:
           | > There is absolutely no reason why regular alkaline
           | batteries can't end up in household garbage.
           | 
           | Years ago mercury was common in alkalines, they were banned
           | in that use case in 1996:
           | https://www.epa.gov/mercury/mercury-batteries The collection
           | bins that were in my local grocery stores went away within a
           | few years of that.
        
           | cptskippy wrote:
           | > The rules are basically like this because the regulators
           | figured you're too dumb to know which types of batteries are
           | bad for the environment
           | 
           | No everyone is as smart as you.
           | 
           | Not everyone cares as much as you.
           | 
           | Not everyone has the time or energy as you.
           | 
           | The rules are designed to solve the problem of hazardous and
           | toxic battery chemistries with as little friction as
           | possible.
        
             | bcrosby95 wrote:
             | Yep, and in my experience they just toss everything in the
             | trash anyways.
        
         | flyinghamster wrote:
         | Don't even get me started on trying to dispose of long
         | fluorescent tubes. I've got an eight-footer I can't get rid of.
         | There is absolutely NOBODY that takes them for recycling in my
         | area.
        
           | bluedino wrote:
           | > Don't even get me started on trying to dispose of long
           | fluorescent tubes.
           | 
           | I replaced those in my garage with some LED lights, long
           | overdue. I put the light fixtures on the curb a scrapper came
           | and picked them up quickly...but left all the lights.
           | 
           | I found out the local Home Depot took them on certain days,
           | so I loaded them up in the van. The wrong way to do it would
           | be to put a long strip of packaging tape along the light and
           | smash it...then put it in a bag.
        
             | philote wrote:
             | I'm here wondering how "wrong" that wrong way would be... I
             | have a few tubes to get rid of as well, and my local
             | trash/recycle drop-off won't take them.
        
               | djbusby wrote:
               | Works on my machine. Even w/o the tape.
        
         | pikrzyszto wrote:
         | In the UK every bigger grocery store has a bin for old
         | batteries, disposing batteries is trivial.
        
           | walthamstow wrote:
           | There was even one on every floor of my previous office (at a
           | national UK retailer known for selling pig-shaped gummy
           | sweets)
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | In Finland I think even the smaller stores have a red
           | carboard a box hidden somewhere... For electronics bit
           | harder, but still should not be impossible.
        
         | Merad wrote:
         | Ironically in my area at least (NC) this is handled better in
         | my parent's rural area than it is in the [small] city where I
         | live with city garbage and recycling pick up. In their county
         | (which is all rural) each community has a small facility that
         | collects garbage and recycling, and each facility has
         | collection bins for electronics, batteries, florescent bulbs,
         | etc. I just googled to see what I'm supposed to do with these
         | items, and apparently the city holds a "hazardous waste day"
         | once a year which is usually a madhouse... so I'm guessing that
         | 75+% of that stuff ends up in the normal garbage.
        
           | philote wrote:
           | I'm from NC as well, and moved from a major city to a rural
           | area. For me, both have similar disposal options. In the
           | city, you had to go to a trash drop-off center to dispose of
           | batteries (same place you'd take used oil or other hazardous
           | waste, as well as regular trash or even yard debris). I think
           | the difference is, in the city you have trash pickup and
           | can't just toss batteries in with the trash or recycle.
           | Whereas out in the country you have to take everything to a
           | drop-off center, so you're probably more likely to dispose of
           | batteries properly since you don't need to take an extra trip
           | to do so.
        
           | pathartl wrote:
           | Yeah, there's quite a few smaller municipalities that hold a
           | hazard day or a e-waste collection day. But yeah, they're
           | normally crazy. I wish there were more common collection
           | areas, especially for batteries. Post offices or libraries
           | with collection boxes that are "safe" would be great. Boxes
           | that won't melt, will vent pressure, and maybe filled with a
           | bunch of sand that the batteries get buried in.
           | 
           | Also there's a ton of e-waste that's still usable! e-waste
           | days at regular intervals where people could trade could
           | result in a lot of stuff being reused.
        
         | SapporoChris wrote:
         | "It's always best to consult with your local waste management
         | service to learn the best and safest way to deal with dead
         | batteries. One thing they will certainly not advise is putting
         | them in plastic soft drink bottles and chucking them in
         | canals.." https://japantoday.com/category/crime/kyoto-man-
         | arrested-for...
        
         | magicalhippo wrote:
         | > I feel like there's not enough easily accessible information
         | in the wild about what you're supposed to do with old
         | electronics, and especially batteries.
         | 
         | Here in Norway it is in principle rather easy. The law requires
         | shops that sell electronics, batteries, light bulbs and such to
         | accept and handle such goods for recycling.
         | 
         | So, if you can buy it there, you can deliver it for recycling
         | there.
         | 
         | There's also plenty of information about this in various ads,
         | physical and social media, so hard to not know.
         | 
         | Yet people throw batteries and whatnot right in the trash, or
         | worse. Some people just don't care about others, is my
         | conclusion.
        
       | officeplant wrote:
       | I know they are small batteries but I have to wonder how much
       | hazardous shit is being thrown away with disposable vapes.
       | Especially ones that get recharged a few times before being
       | tossed with a charge still held.
       | 
       | (In the Southern US) Its bad enough with alkaline/lead acid
       | batteries being tossed in the waste system. We really need
       | programs to deal with battery waste. When I worked at Radioshack
       | in the 2000s we were one of the only local places people could
       | drop battery waste off at for recycling and now those are all
       | long gone.
        
         | jstarfish wrote:
         | Lowe's takes them. Look near exits post-checkout (weird place
         | for them).
         | 
         | CVS apparently does too but none of the employees ever seem to
         | know anything about it.
        
           | officeplant wrote:
           | I'll have to check my local one, online it says they do
           | accept cellphone and rechargeable batteries. I'm not sure how
           | they feel about batteries still contained with-in a vape.
           | Local medical cannabis dispensary had zero leads when I asked
           | about a recycle program for disposable THC vapes they sell
           | that aren't able to be separated from their batteries.
        
       | neocodesoftware wrote:
       | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09213...
       | 
       | Detection of batteries in waste streams
        
         | tmikaeld wrote:
         | May be too slow when added to a trash pickup service, which
         | don't have time to wait for or spread-out trash to detect the
         | batteries.
        
       | Aperocky wrote:
       | A legislation that requires 50% markup that is refunded at
       | recycling center?
       | 
       | Not sure how well it'd work in rural America though.
        
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