[HN Gopher] ESA - Space Debris by the Numbers
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ESA - Space Debris by the Numbers
Author : mkl95
Score : 57 points
Date : 2023-04-30 08:21 UTC (14 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.esa.int)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.esa.int)
| mohn wrote:
| Estimates of:
|
| > 1000000 space debris objects from greater than 1 cm to 10 cm
|
| > 130 million space debris objects from greater than 1 mm to 1 cm
|
| For high aspect ratio debris, it's not clear whether the given
| size ranges refer to the long or short axis. I wonder how the
| Project West Ford[0] artificial ionosphere needles contribute to
| these estimates. Apparently the remaining needles are mostly in
| clumps, so they might not be estimated at the individual level.
|
| I hope we can develop a good method for space debris cleanup. It
| would be a shame if humanity ends up suffering from Kessler
| Syndrome[1]. Time to brush up on how to use a map and compass, I
| guess.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_West_Ford
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome
| stareatgoats wrote:
| Homo sapiens? no: _Homo qui lectica_ seems more appropriate.
|
| If we are ever to be accepted into the intergalactic alliance of
| sentient beings we need to adhere to rule number one: leave no
| trace. It's just a matter of politeness.
| nolok wrote:
| If there is an "intergalactic alliance of sentient beings" then
| leaving trace and debris will be far from humanity's main issue
| for joining them. We're not very good at playing with others,
| never have been from our very nature and the way we evolved.
|
| The question being, is that a necessary trait for every species
| that can reach the stars, in which case do we really want to
| meet the others just like us, or is it not and it's just us
| being like that, in which case again do we really want to meet
| the others who will see us for what we are and hope they don't
| take the obvious reaction/solution to discovering an invasive
| parasite ?
| wolfram74 wrote:
| You've got me thinking, as far as cooperation, nobodies gonna
| compare to ants, but is there a species of mammal that can
| work in as large as groups as we can? Some avian flocks and
| mammal herds get pretty big, but I'm only aware of them
| cooperating in transit, do they do collaborative child
| rearing and food sharing like we do?
| snapplebobapple wrote:
| That's the exact issue.People that point at humans and say
| we are bad at cooperation are really saying they are
| uncomfortable with the level of violence we have/are
| exhibiting. As far as cooperation goes we are clearly the
| most cooperative species on the planet as we are
| cooperating across pretty much the entire surface of the
| planet across diverse kin groups. Most of the insect
| examples trotted out (i.e. ants) are colonies made up of
| one kin group. If you put another kin group in the same
| territory you won't have two kin groups for long because
| one will kill the other or push them out of the territory.
| 7952 wrote:
| Human culture is like nothing else on planet earth for
| cooperation. Although I think a lot of the cooperative
| behaviour is still based on kin groups, we just aren't
| particularly precise about who is kin and who isn't. And
| those instincts get applied more generally than just our
| family.
| nordsieck wrote:
| > You've got me thinking, as far as cooperation, nobodies
| gonna compare to ants
|
| Depends on which you consider the fundamental organism: the
| ant or the colony.
| maxerickson wrote:
| Our knack for cooperation is what got us to space at all.
| wongarsu wrote:
| War and competition got us into space. WWII got German
| rocket scientists the funding and facilities to get some
| good ideas going, and after the war the US and USSR grabbed
| whatever German experts they could find and incorperated
| them into their own ballistic missile programs. Over the
| course of a decade those programs looked at launching
| missiles into space instead of hitting dummy targets. The
| Soviets were the first to successfully launch a satellite
| and the Americans were upset at the very thought of a
| communist country being better at something, which brought
| us a solid decade of space race with lots of spectacular
| achievements. Followed by the Russians giving up, and
| little of note happening over the 40 years (ok, rovers got
| better, the Russians built a bunch of space stations, and
| the fall of the Soviet Union got us the ISS. Not a whole
| lot for 40 years though).
| 7952 wrote:
| War is a team sport. People have a reason to work for a
| common goal that is bigger than themselves. And that
| requires a supresion of a lot of competitive spirit. Not
| everyone can win a medal, be a general, or an astronaut.
| It takes thousands of normal people doing boring jobs.
| nolok wrote:
| Cooperate ... within our group to beat the other group
| stareatgoats wrote:
| I actually prefer to be optimistic about things we don't have
| a clue about. We can be better. The sentient beings that
| possibly observe us (without leaving a trace) might also see
| our potential - we may be selfish and conceited, but we can
| also adapt and take care. It's not one or the other.
|
| When I was a child, that fjord where we used to swim
| gradually turned into a sewer. Now the water is clean, the
| fish have returned, because it became illegal to just flush
| waste into the environment.
|
| In Japan, I've heard children clean their own classrooms
| every day. Not sure if it's true, but it could explain why
| the supporters of Japans national football team clean the
| stadium after a match, as a tribute.
|
| We can learn.
| markrankin wrote:
| Pack it in, pack it out.
|
| Still waiting to see if we find Voyager 1.
|
| !Vamos!
| walrus01 wrote:
| > Number of these still functioning About 7500
|
| Of which 3500+ of those are now starlink satellites. Really.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Starlink_and_Starshiel...
| bombolo wrote:
| [flagged]
| nordsieck wrote:
| > Now the fanboys will come crying.
|
| Why would the fanboys cry?
|
| Starlink is at a low enough altitude that it's largely
| insulated from Kessler syndrome. Even if the satellites fail,
| they'll deorbit in 5-10 years; that doesn't sound like a
| short time, but space is very, very big; it generally takes a
| long time for collisions to happen by chance. That's fast
| enough that there is very little debris at that height.
|
| The real danger comes from constellations like OneWeb or
| Telesat Lightspeed (planned) where the orbital altitude is so
| high that failed satellites (one has already happened for
| OneWeb) will remain in orbit functionally forever.
| youngtaff wrote:
| Yeh but what will they do to the upped atmosphere are they
| burn up?
| bombolo wrote:
| > Why would the fanboys cry?
|
| I imagine they cry and that's why they downvote me every
| time i dare to say something other than praise for our lord
| jesu ehm elon.
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