[HN Gopher] ESA - Space Debris by the Numbers
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       ESA - Space Debris by the Numbers
        
       Author : mkl95
       Score  : 57 points
       Date   : 2023-04-30 08:21 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.esa.int)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.esa.int)
        
       | mohn wrote:
       | Estimates of:
       | 
       | > 1000000 space debris objects from greater than 1 cm to 10 cm
       | 
       | > 130 million space debris objects from greater than 1 mm to 1 cm
       | 
       | For high aspect ratio debris, it's not clear whether the given
       | size ranges refer to the long or short axis. I wonder how the
       | Project West Ford[0] artificial ionosphere needles contribute to
       | these estimates. Apparently the remaining needles are mostly in
       | clumps, so they might not be estimated at the individual level.
       | 
       | I hope we can develop a good method for space debris cleanup. It
       | would be a shame if humanity ends up suffering from Kessler
       | Syndrome[1]. Time to brush up on how to use a map and compass, I
       | guess.
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_West_Ford
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome
        
       | stareatgoats wrote:
       | Homo sapiens? no: _Homo qui lectica_ seems more appropriate.
       | 
       | If we are ever to be accepted into the intergalactic alliance of
       | sentient beings we need to adhere to rule number one: leave no
       | trace. It's just a matter of politeness.
        
         | nolok wrote:
         | If there is an "intergalactic alliance of sentient beings" then
         | leaving trace and debris will be far from humanity's main issue
         | for joining them. We're not very good at playing with others,
         | never have been from our very nature and the way we evolved.
         | 
         | The question being, is that a necessary trait for every species
         | that can reach the stars, in which case do we really want to
         | meet the others just like us, or is it not and it's just us
         | being like that, in which case again do we really want to meet
         | the others who will see us for what we are and hope they don't
         | take the obvious reaction/solution to discovering an invasive
         | parasite ?
        
           | wolfram74 wrote:
           | You've got me thinking, as far as cooperation, nobodies gonna
           | compare to ants, but is there a species of mammal that can
           | work in as large as groups as we can? Some avian flocks and
           | mammal herds get pretty big, but I'm only aware of them
           | cooperating in transit, do they do collaborative child
           | rearing and food sharing like we do?
        
             | snapplebobapple wrote:
             | That's the exact issue.People that point at humans and say
             | we are bad at cooperation are really saying they are
             | uncomfortable with the level of violence we have/are
             | exhibiting. As far as cooperation goes we are clearly the
             | most cooperative species on the planet as we are
             | cooperating across pretty much the entire surface of the
             | planet across diverse kin groups. Most of the insect
             | examples trotted out (i.e. ants) are colonies made up of
             | one kin group. If you put another kin group in the same
             | territory you won't have two kin groups for long because
             | one will kill the other or push them out of the territory.
        
               | 7952 wrote:
               | Human culture is like nothing else on planet earth for
               | cooperation. Although I think a lot of the cooperative
               | behaviour is still based on kin groups, we just aren't
               | particularly precise about who is kin and who isn't. And
               | those instincts get applied more generally than just our
               | family.
        
             | nordsieck wrote:
             | > You've got me thinking, as far as cooperation, nobodies
             | gonna compare to ants
             | 
             | Depends on which you consider the fundamental organism: the
             | ant or the colony.
        
           | maxerickson wrote:
           | Our knack for cooperation is what got us to space at all.
        
             | wongarsu wrote:
             | War and competition got us into space. WWII got German
             | rocket scientists the funding and facilities to get some
             | good ideas going, and after the war the US and USSR grabbed
             | whatever German experts they could find and incorperated
             | them into their own ballistic missile programs. Over the
             | course of a decade those programs looked at launching
             | missiles into space instead of hitting dummy targets. The
             | Soviets were the first to successfully launch a satellite
             | and the Americans were upset at the very thought of a
             | communist country being better at something, which brought
             | us a solid decade of space race with lots of spectacular
             | achievements. Followed by the Russians giving up, and
             | little of note happening over the 40 years (ok, rovers got
             | better, the Russians built a bunch of space stations, and
             | the fall of the Soviet Union got us the ISS. Not a whole
             | lot for 40 years though).
        
               | 7952 wrote:
               | War is a team sport. People have a reason to work for a
               | common goal that is bigger than themselves. And that
               | requires a supresion of a lot of competitive spirit. Not
               | everyone can win a medal, be a general, or an astronaut.
               | It takes thousands of normal people doing boring jobs.
        
             | nolok wrote:
             | Cooperate ... within our group to beat the other group
        
           | stareatgoats wrote:
           | I actually prefer to be optimistic about things we don't have
           | a clue about. We can be better. The sentient beings that
           | possibly observe us (without leaving a trace) might also see
           | our potential - we may be selfish and conceited, but we can
           | also adapt and take care. It's not one or the other.
           | 
           | When I was a child, that fjord where we used to swim
           | gradually turned into a sewer. Now the water is clean, the
           | fish have returned, because it became illegal to just flush
           | waste into the environment.
           | 
           | In Japan, I've heard children clean their own classrooms
           | every day. Not sure if it's true, but it could explain why
           | the supporters of Japans national football team clean the
           | stadium after a match, as a tribute.
           | 
           | We can learn.
        
       | markrankin wrote:
       | Pack it in, pack it out.
       | 
       | Still waiting to see if we find Voyager 1.
       | 
       | !Vamos!
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | > Number of these still functioning About 7500
       | 
       | Of which 3500+ of those are now starlink satellites. Really.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Starlink_and_Starshiel...
        
         | bombolo wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | nordsieck wrote:
           | > Now the fanboys will come crying.
           | 
           | Why would the fanboys cry?
           | 
           | Starlink is at a low enough altitude that it's largely
           | insulated from Kessler syndrome. Even if the satellites fail,
           | they'll deorbit in 5-10 years; that doesn't sound like a
           | short time, but space is very, very big; it generally takes a
           | long time for collisions to happen by chance. That's fast
           | enough that there is very little debris at that height.
           | 
           | The real danger comes from constellations like OneWeb or
           | Telesat Lightspeed (planned) where the orbital altitude is so
           | high that failed satellites (one has already happened for
           | OneWeb) will remain in orbit functionally forever.
        
             | youngtaff wrote:
             | Yeh but what will they do to the upped atmosphere are they
             | burn up?
        
             | bombolo wrote:
             | > Why would the fanboys cry?
             | 
             | I imagine they cry and that's why they downvote me every
             | time i dare to say something other than praise for our lord
             | jesu ehm elon.
        
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       (page generated 2023-04-30 23:01 UTC)