[HN Gopher] Morse, an open-source interactive tool for inspectin...
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Morse, an open-source interactive tool for inspecting Clojure
Author : xmlblog
Score : 140 points
Date : 2023-04-28 12:31 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (clojure.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (clojure.org)
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| This sounds awful to google for, I guess if you do "Clojure
| Morse" it might work. The other nitpick is, if you're ever
| introducing a new language, regardless of context, throw some
| code samples, like a simple applicable "hello world" at a
| minimum.
|
| And because someone has to...
|
| "Can I look at your Morse code?"
| rippeltippel wrote:
| > if you're ever introducing a new language, regardless of
| context, throw some code samples
|
| This is not a new language, it's a tool for Clojure.
|
| I really appreciate the contributions that Nubank is making
| (after making Datomic free,
| https://blog.datomic.com/2023/04/datomic-is-free.html). My only
| nitpick this time is that I would have liked some
| screenshots/screencasts of the this new tool in action.
| mst wrote:
| dimitar found and linked a screenshot upthread: https://raw.g
| ithubusercontent.com/nubank/morse/main/screensh...
|
| (more would be nice but it's a start)
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| I apparently missread the content, more reason why it needs
| screenshots or anything informative front and center...
| [deleted]
| johngalt_ wrote:
| You could have just read the article, it explains very
| clearly what it is about. Or checked the github page
| linked in the article that provides more information and
| screenshots.
| marcofiset wrote:
| As long as the tool lives in the ecosystem and is discoverable
| alongside Clojure, the name isn't an issue at all.
| medo-bear wrote:
| clojure hardly needs a "hello world" introduction
| dimitar wrote:
| Screenshot here:
| https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nubank/morse/main/screensh...
| sandij wrote:
| And video here: https://docs.datomic.com/cloud/other-
| tools/REBL.html
| 0x445442 wrote:
| All roads lead to Smalltalk.
| fogus wrote:
| there are so many lessons that we need to understand and
| leverage in our modern tooling, languages, and systems that
| Smalltalk and Lisp got right decades ago.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Or Lisp Machines,
|
| https://twitter.com/jackrusher/status/1350839387500773378
| erichocean wrote:
| I've been really enjoying using Clojure with Clerk:
| https://github.com/nextjournal/clerk
|
| It's a bit like a Jupyter notebook, but you get to use your own
| editor, you still have a normal Clojure REPL, it's stored in git
| like "normal" code, etc.
|
| For exploratory, information processing type work, it's pretty
| great.
|
| Demo here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bs3QX92kYA
| clusterhacks wrote:
| Are Clojure dev teams outside of Nubank currently using REBL
| excited about this?
|
| As a small project Clojure dev (and admittedly a couple years out
| of daily Clojure use), these types of projects are hard for me to
| place in a day-to-day work context. The doc says that Morse is
| one tool that can "amplify the power of the programmer during
| interactive development".
|
| I totally feel like Clojure REPL-based dev is better for me
| personally - the interactive feedback feels so natural and
| functional programming matches so well my preferred dev process.
| But it is more difficult for me to understand where this type of
| tooling fits in dev workflow. Is Morse an incremental
| improvement? Does it make more sense in significant Clojure dev
| shops with many programmers vs just me sitting around with an
| Emacs repl going?
| hcarvalhoalves wrote:
| Back in the day, I used the Cursive plugin + IntelliJ
| integrated debugger to inspect complicated data structures.
| This seems like a natural evolution.
| fogus wrote:
| > Clojure REPL-based dev is better for me personally
|
| me too! Morse is complementary to your normal REPL-based
| workflow. it is designed to not get in the way of that.
| slifin wrote:
| Is it fair to say a user of rebl isn't going to notice much
| difference between morse and rebl?
|
| But replicant seems important overall for the ecosystem and
| probably worth highlighting?
| bmillare wrote:
| for me, (just started using it), at least 1 good case is
| traversing deeply nested maps without going crazy. Even when
| looking at nested structures from other langs, easy enough to
| write a converter and then use this to inspect. Also if the
| datatypes are special, you can have it expand in other ways
| like links to browser, or other custom view types. That alone
| seems pretty useful. You can make GUI like behavior with just
| adding some metadata.
| phyrex wrote:
| If it's anything like REBL (and it looks like it) it's
| complimentary to a repl. Think it it as a visual data browser,
| which is something that a repl isn't good for
| blatant303 wrote:
| I wasted several hours trying to make REBL work from a Leiningen
| project. Couldn't manage to have it connect to my REPL and show
| me the forms I'd get there. Gave up even though I managed to
| overcome the boggus dependencies.
|
| I'm fed up with Clojure/script and the core dev team. The
| language came out without a build system, so Technomancy invented
| Leiningen, the build system, and eventually, something like 10
| years later, the dev team released Deps: you still need to
| remember painfully long commands to run your project (and as a
| consequence store them in some textfile because eventually your
| teammates will ask you: can you send me the command to run the
| project/tests/whatever ?). Clojurescript is just a hideous mess
| and having to sprinkle countless reader conditionnals because of
| the atrocious clojurescript specific ':require-macros' is a huge
| letdown and makes writing universal portable code that can run
| both in the jvm and the browser a painful and sad experience. And
| it's almost impossible to suggest improvements to the language
| (even tiny ones) because the dev team is just smug. They'll turn
| down your idea and implement it anyway when they feel _they_ need
| it (I 've had 2 suggestions turned down then integrated anyway -
| I'm the one who pointed out Ruby manages terminal map arguments
| just fine, whether it's a literal or "variadic" map).
|
| I'm looking forward to luxlang now.
| https://trello.com/b/VRQhvXjs/lux
| lgrapenthin wrote:
| This rant has hardly anything to do with the linked
| announcement, except that it starts with (paraphrasing) 'I once
| tried using REBL in an unsupported way and gave up after some
| hours' The criticisms have been adressed or discussed in many
| other contexts already, which is also why I won't engage in
| such discussions here.
| blatant303 wrote:
| > in an unsupported way
|
| The majority of Clojure projects use Leiningen. As a
| consequence, REBL/Morse do not support the majority of
| Clojure projects.
| lgrapenthin wrote:
| I haven't seen leiningen based projects in a long time. Are
| you sure?
| eigenhombre wrote:
| We specifically preferred Leiningen for all new projects
| at my last job because of a number of plugins we still
| used that were unsupported by Deps. This was a year ago,
| so that may have changed since I left.
|
| I still find Lein a little easier to use, and use it for
| personal projects, but appreciate Deps's more data-
| driven, "simpler" approach -- and it seems faster.
| blatant303 wrote:
| Go look for recent Clojure projects on github It's
| roughly half leiningen (counted 5) half deps (counted 5)
| with the occasional outliers using "npx shadow-cljs" or
| other unknown build methods (counted 2).
|
| https://github.com/search?q=language%3Aclojure&type=repos
| ito...
|
| Note: I examined one project per author.
| geokon wrote:
| I'm glad the MATLAB interface isn't dead haha
|
| This this looks awfully similar to Reveal - though Reveal seems
| to be more composable and modular
|
| https://github.com/vlaaad/reveal/
| beeskneecaps wrote:
| -... .- -.. -. .- --- .
| chankstein38 wrote:
| No. Morse is a long-established communication protocol for
| letters. This tool is just something named poorly.
| mst wrote:
| It's a reference to the Inspector Morse novels.
| simongray wrote:
| That is called Morse code, not Morse.
| megapatch wrote:
| Remorse maybe?
| wmorse wrote:
| Hear! Hear!
| Hammershaft wrote:
| Nice work, I had a similiar idea a month ago, if I commited to
| the project I would have named it Explojure.
|
| I'll give this a whirl tonight!
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(page generated 2023-04-28 23:00 UTC)