[HN Gopher] Even Apple employees hate Siri and are skeptical of ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Even Apple employees hate Siri and are skeptical of its future, new
       report says
        
       Author : carlycue
       Score  : 215 points
       Date   : 2023-04-27 16:01 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (9to5mac.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (9to5mac.com)
        
       | cmdrk wrote:
       | I rarely use Siri, but my technophobe elderly parents have
       | embraced it as a fairly intuitive way to navigate their phone
       | settings, contacts list, etc.
        
       | cubefox wrote:
       | Here is the original article:
       | 
       | https://www.theinformation.com/articles/apples-siri-chief-st...
        
       | sarks_nz wrote:
       | I love Siri with Apple Maps in New Zealand /s
       | 
       | Me: "Siri, give me directions to vaguely ethnic sounding cafe"
       | where cafe is about 2km away.
       | 
       | Siri: "Getting directions to other cafe in
       | London/Europe/Tajikistan".
       | 
       | So theres no line of code that says "If found location if
       | >2000kms away with no direct land route and/or crosses multiple
       | continents, it might not be the right one"
       | 
       | Google Maps and voice works pretty flawlessly.
        
       | adityathakurxd wrote:
       | Siri is nice. Use it for a variety of things. Although would hurt
       | if it is not worked on and improved.
        
       | PaulStatezny wrote:
       | I don't use Siri all day, every day. It's certainly not perfect.
       | But did you know you can say things like...
       | 
       | "Turn off the Apple TV."
       | 
       | "Turn off low power mode."
       | 
       | "Stop navigating."
       | 
       | "Open [name of app I don't want to spend time finding in my iOS
       | folders]"
       | 
       | "What song is this?" (Listens and usually is able to discover the
       | name/artist of the song in the background.)
       | 
       | So when people say things like, "Siri is mostly useless," I think
       | - wow, that is a very hyperbolic statement.
        
         | mthoms wrote:
         | It's useless beyond manipulating iDevices, navigation tasks and
         | simple questions. Even then, if you don't ask in the exact
         | right way it often doesn't work.
        
           | lolinder wrote:
           | Is this any different than Alexa or Google, though? I guess
           | Google is probably better at looking up facts and Alexa at
           | ordering stuff (if buying things without even seeing a
           | picture is your thing), but neither is _that_ useful. Is this
           | not just a case of voice interfaces being much harder to do
           | right than people originally hoped?
           | 
           | (I say this as someone who has a Google Home that I use
           | regularly, but mostly as a kitchen timer and music player.)
        
             | 8ytecoder wrote:
             | I mentioned an example in another comment - basic
             | manipulation of timers don't work well - like, adding time
             | to an existing timer. When I'm working in the kitchen this
             | is really useful. There are also major performance issues -
             | "working on it" and "sorry can you say that again" are
             | probably two of it's most common utterances. Random bus
             | like "there's nothing playing" and the wrong siri taking
             | over the request from a million miles away and you just
             | can't even hear is extra annoying.
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | Google Home is pretty bad at adding time to existing
               | timers too. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it creates
               | a second timer with a difficult to access name.
               | 
               | Personally, I'm become convinced a _good_ talking
               | /listening clock is actually a useful thing, but Google
               | isn't providing it, and it sounds like Apple isn't
               | either.
        
             | isk517 wrote:
             | At this point it will be a race see which virtual assistant
             | can become universally useful first, and from what the
             | article is implying Siri is not anywhere close to where
             | they need it to be.
        
         | PaulBGD_ wrote:
         | My favorite is on the Apple TV, "search for [some video] on
         | youtube" will actually open the app and search for it.
         | 
         | I think the big issue is that a lot of these aren't
         | discoverable, and because Siri isn't very smart at natural
         | language you won't discover them by asking for something
         | similar like you could with Google Assistant. An LLM for
         | parsing requests could be super interesting here.
        
           | brianpan wrote:
           | "Fast-forward 2 minutes" to skip commercials made watching on
           | the Apple TV way better than watching on my laptop,
           | especially for sports.
        
           | shagie wrote:
           | Siri mostly runs on device. Having a LLM needs a much more
           | powerful device or Apple would need to drastically scale up
           | its cloud buys from AWS, GCP, and Azure (which would in turn
           | make the service more expensive).
        
         | agentdrtran wrote:
         | Siri's functionality is fine for me, it just seems to really
         | struggle to understand me compared to Google
        
         | nneonneo wrote:
         | My favorite is "[Let's] go home", which is what I use to
         | navigate back to my house via Apple Maps.
         | 
         | There's also sending messages to people - you can send voice
         | messages ("send a voice message to X"), which works decently
         | well and avoids transcription failures.
        
           | artificial wrote:
           | This is even better, I usually use "navigate home". Thanks
           | for sharing the voice message bit!
        
       | mark_l_watson wrote:
       | I often leave home with just my Apple Watch, and for the simple
       | things I do with my watch voice control via Siri and some tapping
       | on the screen is definitely good enough for me.
       | 
       | I think that all the deep learning models for handling speech on
       | the Apple Watch are run locally on the watch.
        
       | csujoy wrote:
       | Let's accept it! Apple sucks at anything that involves learning
       | from large volumes of data.
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | MacRumors' related article [0] has some more interesing details:
       | 
       | > By 2018, the team working on Siri had apparently "devolved into
       | a mess, driven by petty turf battles between senior leaders and
       | heated arguments over the direction of the assistant." Siri's
       | leadership did not want to invest in building tools to analyse
       | Siri's usage and engineers lacked the ability to obtain basic
       | details such as how many people were using the virtual assistant
       | and how often they were doing so. The data that was obtained
       | about Siri coming from the data science and engineering team was
       | simply not being used, with some former employees calling it "a
       | waste of time and money."
       | 
       | > Many Apple employees purportedly left the company because it
       | was too slow to make decisions or too conservative in its
       | approach to new AI technologies, including the large-language
       | models that underpin chatbots like ChatGPT. Apple CEO Tim Cook
       | personally attempted to persuade engineers who helped Apple
       | modernize its search technology to stay at the company, before
       | they left to work on large-language models at Google.
       | 
       | > Apple executives are said to have dismissed proposals to give
       | Siri the ability to conduct extended back-and-forth
       | conversations, claiming that the feature would be difficult to
       | control and gimmicky.
       | 
       | > Cook and other senior executives requested changes to Siri to
       | prevent embarassing responses and the company prefers Siri's
       | responses to be pre-written by a team of around 20 writers,
       | rather than AI-generated. There were also specific decisions to
       | exclude information such as iPhone prices from Siri to push users
       | directly to Apple's website instead.
       | 
       | > Siri engineers working on the feature that uses material from
       | the web to answer questions clashed with the design team over how
       | accurate the responses had to be in 2019. The design team
       | demanded a near-perfect accuracy rate before the feature could be
       | released.
       | 
       | > Engineers claim to have spent months persuading Siri designers
       | that not every one of its answers needed human verification, a
       | limitation that made it impossible to scale up Siri to answer the
       | huge number of questions asked by users. Similarly, Apple's
       | design team repeatedly rejected the feature that enabled users to
       | report a concern or issue with the content of a Siri answer,
       | preventing machine-learning engineers from understanding
       | mistakes, because it wanted Siri to appear "all-knowing."
       | 
       | > In 2019, the Siri team explored a project to rewrite the
       | virtual assistant from scratch, codenamed "Blackbird." The effort
       | sought to create a lightweight version of Siri that would
       | delegate the creation of functions to app developers and would
       | run on iPhones instead of the cloud to improve performance and
       | privacy. Demos of Blackbird apparently prompted excitement among
       | Apple employees owing to its utility and responsiveness.
       | Blackbird competed with the work of two senior leaders on the
       | Siri team who were responsible for helping Siri understand and
       | respond to queries. These individuals pushed for their own
       | project, codenamed " Siri X," for the 10th anniversary of the
       | virtual assistant. The project simply aimed to move Siri's
       | processing on-device for privacy reasons, without the
       | lightweight, modular functionality of Blackbird. Hundreds of
       | employees working on Blackbird were assigned to Siri X, which
       | killed the ambitious project to make Siri more capable.
       | 
       | This seems completely dysfunctional.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/27/report-details-
       | turmoil-...
        
       | IOT_Apprentice wrote:
       | Build a new team, start over, add in LLM & go for it.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | When your miss rate from experience is stuck around 20-30% for
       | almost a decade, there is no future
        
       | ninkendo wrote:
       | I'd love to see a survey of people's hit/miss rate with Siri, but
       | with the extra dimension of what accent they have and how thick
       | it is. IME, Siri's speech recognition is actually quite fantastic
       | (I almost _never_ have an issue with a dictated text message
       | saying the wrong thing), but:
       | 
       | - I have a very standard midwest american accent
       | 
       | - I talk to siri like I'm a pilot talking to ATC: As clearly and
       | succinctly as possible, never saying "umm", "uh", or having to
       | correct myself, etc (this is actually an acquired skill that
       | takes time)
       | 
       | - I generally know what things Siri can do well and what it can't
       | (I try to phrase things in ways I know is less likely for Siri to
       | misinterpret)
       | 
       | My theory is that most people who have a bad experience either
       | have a thick accent (and importantly don't set the Siri language
       | to something that matches their accent! there are multiple
       | "English" settings in the Siri language, pick one that matches
       | your accent!), don't speak clearly/mumble, have a lot of noise in
       | the environment, or some combination of the above.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | mgkimsal wrote:
         | Years ago, it seemed Siri would try to understand you via
         | whatever voice accent you'd chosen _it_ to speak in. If you
         | wanted UK Siri, it would understand... a UK accent. Using a
         | Siri UK voice, and speaking with a US midwest accent wouldn 't
         | always get you what you expected.
         | 
         | I tried an Australian test, and did a (bad) video of it here:
         | https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/207295417
         | 
         | Note this was... 8 years ago maybe? I forget exactly, but it
         | doesn't seem to work this way any more.
        
           | ninkendo wrote:
           | Your video doesn't show you changing the Siri voice though,
           | you're telling it _your_ accent. There's "Language", which is
           | your accent ("English (Australia)" in your case), and then
           | "Siri Voice", which is set to "Australian (Female)". So of
           | course if you tell it you have an Australian accent, but then
           | speak with an American accent, words like "Light" will get
           | confused, because the en_US "Light" sounds like the en_AU
           | "Late".
           | 
           | If you have an American accent but want Siri to speak with an
           | Australian one, set "Language" to "English - USA", but then
           | set "Siri Voice" to Australian. Don't set Language to
           | something that isn't your accent!
        
       | paracyst wrote:
       | Because it sucks. I tell it to turn off all of my alarms and
       | instead it ends up calling my mother at 4 in the morning, causing
       | her to panic, thinking there's an emergency.
        
       | 64operator wrote:
       | It used to be smarter, I think they dumbed it down to save money
       | or something.
        
       | heliophobicdude wrote:
       | I switched to typing to Siri instead of using my voice [1]. I
       | also disabled all triggers for Siri. Now I invoke it by pressing
       | power button then type away.
       | 
       | It's more useful than dictating when I need something quick and
       | discretely.
       | 
       | When chatbots arrive on iPhone, this is how I'll be talking to
       | it.
       | 
       | 1: https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/type-to-siri-ios/
        
       | MrFantastic wrote:
       | Since iOS 16, Siri has gotten dramatically less accurate for me
       | on my Iphone 13 Pro.
       | 
       | WebGL has been screwed since 16.4
        
       | CodeWriter23 wrote:
       | My favorite
       | 
       | Me: 16 minutes
       | 
       | Siri: your timer is set for 16 minutes
       | 
       | Me: 17 minutes
       | 
       | Siri: 17 minutes and counting
       | 
       | Me: 18 minutes
       | 
       | Siri: I don't understand that
        
       | rickreynoldssf wrote:
       | It doesn't help that Apple doesn't let third party developers use
       | it. The only SDK available for Homepod, is locked behind a bunch
       | of approvals and the only thing it does is allow developers to
       | implement music players. It's very specific to playing music. Not
       | even Podcasts.
       | 
       | Why can't an eCommerce app implement, "Hey Siri, tell Online
       | Store to add Tidepods to my weekly order". ?
       | 
       | What about Audible implementing, "Hey Siri, tell Audible to add
       | Tale of Two Cities to my reading list." ?
       | 
       | There's remnants of a car service interface that never got used
       | or shipped AFAIK. If you ask "Hey Siri, get me an Uber to the
       | train station". It just replies "sorry, I help with rides".
       | 
       | Or maybe even work with other Apple stuff better. I can say "Hey
       | Siri, turn on Television" and that works and then say "Hey Siri,
       | mute television" and it will reply, "There are no televisions to
       | control".
        
         | augment003 wrote:
         | This is simply false, or at the very least outdated. Apps can
         | definitely implement custom intents for Siri:
         | 
         | https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline...
        
           | rickreynoldssf wrote:
           | Not on Homepod, the most likely device Siri would be used on.
        
       | izzydata wrote:
       | It would be funny if voice controlled devices came into being and
       | disappeared before I even bothered to try them.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | throwaway_ab wrote:
       | I use Siri to turn on/off voice control which lets me control my
       | iPhone without touching it (it's a disability feature).
       | 
       | When I no longer need voice control I use Siri to turn it off (I
       | have my voice control set to label all actionable buttons on the
       | screen so I like to turn it off when using my phone via touch.)
       | 
       | I'm not visually impaired however I find voice control super
       | useful when I want control of my phone and rather not use touch
       | or in a situation where touch is impractical.
       | 
       | Whilst Siri is good for certain tasks it lacks the ability to
       | control every aspect of the phone whereas voice control is
       | literally a replacement for touch control.
       | 
       | By combining Siri and voice control I get fine grained complete
       | control of every app when I need it, all enabled/disabled via my
       | voice. Such a brilliant combination.
       | 
       | Apple's attention to this disability feature is incredible. I
       | only learnt about it after a visually impaired friend showed me
       | how it works.
       | 
       | I learnt that voice control/voice over is the reason most
       | visually impaired people use iPhone due to Apple's dedication to
       | building world leading accessibility features.
        
         | 0x6c6f6c wrote:
         | This is a surprising testimonial.
         | 
         | My wife switched from a Pixel to iPhone and has utterly hated
         | Siri and voice assist on iOS to the point she'd rather just
         | deal with her hand pain. And it's a lot of pain.
         | 
         | I've listened to see how bad it can be at understanding her,
         | and it's appalling.
        
       | WonderBuilder wrote:
       | Honestly, I find Siri the most powerful popular voice assistant
       | out there. Once you starting using Shortcuts, you can use Siri
       | for literally anything. With just holding the power button, and a
       | couple words, I can start tracking a run, schedule message a
       | friend, record my thoughts, close all my tabs that contain the
       | word "youtube"... And so much more!
       | 
       | Shortcuts & Siri is honestly the main reason I switched from
       | Android to iOS.
        
       | 23B1 wrote:
       | I'm a screenwriter and my focus is on character NO MATTER WHAT.
       | We watch movies because we love the characters inside the plot,
       | inside the universe, and how they relate to each other. CHARACTER
       | is the CORE DRIVER of all stories, be it the story of Beowulf or
       | Star Wars or Succession. Period.
       | 
       | Today, I am fortunate enough to be developing 'characters' and
       | backstories for AI companies, and I think its working; the new
       | prototypes I've been working on really feel more warm (or more
       | logical, or more relatable, or more philosophical, depending on
       | what we're trying to transmit).
       | 
       | I think a lot of AI companies are really missing this important
       | point, and I think Apple, of all companies, should have got this!
        
       | snapetom wrote:
       | I live 20 miles away from work. 3 times a week, I have to go in.
       | For a while, every morning, I ask Siri directions to [name of my
       | company] to gauge how bad traffic is and how long it will take.
       | Every time, she gives me directions to some pub in Saskatchewan,
       | 18 hour drive away, that shares no part of their name with the
       | name of my company.
       | 
       | I just gave up.
       | 
       | Alexa is not much better. I set up voice recognition to turn on
       | my espresso machine (Rocket is the brand). Every morning I wake
       | up, I tell her to turn on my Rocket. For about 3 months, things
       | worked perfectly. All of a sudden, half the time, she instead
       | starts playing "She's a Rocket" by Robert Ealey, a thirty year-
       | old song.
        
         | K7PJP wrote:
         | > For a while, every morning, I ask Siri directions to [name of
         | my company] to gauge how bad traffic is and how long it will
         | take.
         | 
         | My work address is in my own contact entry. I'd just ask Siri
         | to take me to work.
        
       | bricedouglas wrote:
       | Not surprised. No major expansion in functionality for years
        
       | purpleblue wrote:
       | Siri is mostly useless. It works about half the time for me. When
       | I ask it to do a task like create a timer, it works, but asking
       | it questions is almost useless. One time I asked "What is a
       | picometer?" and it gave an answer from Wikipedia, but then I
       | immediately asked "What is a femtometer?" and it said it couldn't
       | answer it on the iPhone. My wife gets amused whenever I use Siri
       | because half the time I'll start swearing in frustration at how
       | stupid it is, and yet like Charlie Brown and Lucy, I keep trying
       | to kick that football.
        
         | dna_polymerase wrote:
         | "This is what I found on the web for XYZ"... all the time!
         | 
         | At this point, they should just pipe the #1 search result into
         | ChatGPT for a nice summary and have Siri read that out loud. It
         | would be so much better.
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | Yes! My big complaint about Siri is that she's just the same
           | old "here is a list of preprogrammed actions you can perform,
           | with a fallback to just dumping it in a Google searchbox" but
           | you don't get access to the list. So finding what she can do
           | involves outright guessing, scouring the web, or closely
           | watching Apple demos. She can do quite a bit, but you'll
           | never find 90+% of the options because Apple only shows you a
           | small handful of suggestions.
           | 
           | https://support.apple.com/siri
           | 
           | Discoverability is a huge problem. Also, Siri can't launch
           | apps, which seems like it should be an extremely common
           | operation. "Hey Siri, launch Words with Friends".
        
             | DHPersonal wrote:
             | Try "Hey Siri, open Words with Friends"; at least on my
             | iPhone, Siri can usually open apps for me when I use that
             | phrasing.
        
       | rednerrus wrote:
       | I've switched to using a Chat-GPT shortcut in lieu of Siri and
       | it's absolutely amazing. Apple should figure out how to license
       | GPT and run Siri through it.
        
         | heliophobicdude wrote:
         | Hi! Could you please share details of how yours works?
        
           | rednerrus wrote:
           | https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/448738a9ae9b4a5b9a647cb29ea.
           | ..
        
       | hinkley wrote:
       | I don't know if it's programmed in or just cargo culting but if
       | Siri accidentally triggers and starts talking to you, "Nobody
       | asked you Siri" is my favorite way to get it to stop interacting.
       | 
       | Said in the tone of Cobie Smulders in How I Met Your Mother
       | (Nobody asked you PATRICE!)
        
         | esafak wrote:
         | I tell google to STFU
        
       | MH15 wrote:
       | Siri recently started mispronouncing simple words that it never
       | mistook before on my iPhone. Phrases like "It's 65 degrees
       | outside" now sound like "It ess 65". Really odd.
        
       | idk1 wrote:
       | Two pretty consistent frustrating issues I have are:
       | 
       | Me: "Hey Siri, tell my Mike I'll send that document over in ten
       | mins. How about pizza for lunch. I also spoke to Jenny and she
       | would come for lunch too."
       | 
       | Siri: "Calling mike."
       | 
       | So cannot tell the difference between 'tell' and 'call', however
       | Siri could use context and assume if I'm talking for quite a
       | while after saying maybe tell or maybe call then it's most likely
       | 'tell' because of the sentences afterwards. This is by far the
       | most frustrating.
       | 
       | Second issue is:
       | 
       | Me: "Hey Siri - what's in my calendar today."
       | 
       | Siri: "Playing alternative radio station."
       | 
       | Such a tremendous amount of times music has started playing, I
       | think the top thing on their "can't understand" code is to try
       | and play music. About once a week Siri will take something I say
       | about anything and start playing music instead. It's infuriating.
       | I've deleting music from my phone but I can't delete it from TV /
       | Homepod Mini / Mac.
       | 
       | Edit: I've thought of a third which isn't so bad.
       | 
       | Me: "Ask Hassan has the mortgage has gone out yet?"
       | 
       | Siri: "Here's your message. `has the Moorgate has gone out yet.`"
       | 
       | It will replace random words in sentences with locations, and
       | locations, in the UK, any word it cannot get, it will first
       | assume I'm talking about any town in the UK and use one of those.
       | It is ludicrous the amount of priority it gives to names of
       | towns, I've even had tiny villages inserted into sentences
       | before.
        
         | nimbleplum40 wrote:
         | I have the same experience...
         | 
         | Me before bed: "Hey siri - turn off the lights"
         | 
         | Siri: "Playing death metal"
        
       | whywhywhywhy wrote:
       | Can tell they downgraded the long range microphones somewhere
       | between iPhone 4 and 7, might be even worse in later models
       | because it really struggles to pick up you shouting across the
       | room at it when it used to work pretty well on the 4.
       | 
       | Then again the only thing I've used it for since launch is
       | setting timers, rarely gets that right these days.
        
         | lldb wrote:
         | I don't think the iPhone 4 had always on siri.
        
           | moepstar wrote:
           | It had, as long as the phone was charging.
           | 
           | IIRC, "always on" Siri came with the 4s
        
       | jiggawatts wrote:
       | I get that they're wary of an LLM-based Siri making embarrassing
       | mistakes. It would be a _bad look_ if some kid 's phone provided
       | helpful instructions for killing themselves when asked. Mummy and
       | Daddy would sue.
       | 
       | However, directly answering queries is not the only way LLMs can
       | be used. In fact, when ChatGPT 4 came out, the first thing I
       | thought of was: "Wow, this could make Siri so much better!"
       | 
       | For example, an LLM like GPT coupled with voice recognition was
       | used to create Whisper, an AI that has nearly perfect text-from-
       | audio recognition. One of my biggest gripes with Siri is that it
       | is basically useless in a car because even slight background
       | noise confuses its voice recognition. An LLM would fix this.
       | 
       | Another point is that many people don't realise that LLMs re-read
       | their entire input for every word they generate! Their writing
       | speed is so-so, but they can read _really fast_ even when running
       | on mobile device hardware. Think 10K to 100K words per second. An
       | LLM could read through all of the text on your device when
       | prompted for search queries in a fraction of a second. As long as
       | this was carefully set up, it wouldn 't be able to produce "bad
       | output", because it would just be matching data to your prompt.
       | 
       | E.g.: Imagine GPT being prompted with: "Does this email match the
       | query <q>? Say only YES if it does or NO if it does not. <email>"
       | 
       | It doesn't matter if it occasionality hallucinates and outputs
       | gibberish, you just mark that as a "NO" and move on. This is also
       | very easy to train out of a specialised version of the model
       | using reinforcement learning.
       | 
       | PS: I just played around with GPT 4 to see how it behaves when
       | asked to recognise requests for creating calendar entries, and
       | it's _pretty good_. For example, it can correctly compute things
       | like  "next long weekend". Interestingly, ChatGPT 4 is _already_
       | doing some similar prompt injection, and I can 't override its
       | sense of "current time".
       | 
       | Apple's Siri team has failed really badly. Everyone else is
       | sprinting away while they're not even aware there's a race going
       | on.
        
         | caycep wrote:
         | I think reading the Information article, there were 2 issues,
         | which it wasn't good at separating. The AI model sophistication
         | and usage are one - and yeah, I think they could be more
         | creative in using LLMs and such. But the other one seems to be
         | a back end issue, i.e. that brief mention of "clunky database
         | slowing down iterations/upgrades". That always seems to be an
         | Apple Achilles heel...and I'd hope also they are NOT using that
         | terrible IT infrastructure company (Agilent or whatever) to
         | outsource their backend...
        
         | circuit10 wrote:
         | > Another point is that many people don't realise that LLMs re-
         | read their entire input for every word they generate!
         | 
         | Not every word, for every generation (which on something like
         | ChatGPT is a message)
         | 
         | > they can read really fast even when running on mobile device
         | hardware. Think 10K to 100K words per second
         | 
         | That's definitely not right, I'll try to find some numbers
        
       | locusofself wrote:
       | I'm excited for a GPT or similar voice assistant. Asking siri
       | basic questions and having it tell me it will send me some links
       | on my phone is annoying. I have homepods in the living room and
       | they aren't good for much besides music.
        
       | ChildOfChaos wrote:
       | Siri is not that bad, considering that Google Assistant is not
       | great either.
       | 
       | What do people use it for? mostly just to set alarms or turn of
       | lights etc.
       | 
       | With all this breakthrough in AI and things like Whisper which
       | brings incredible voice recognition, these tools are ripe for an
       | upgrade even though they have been stagnant for years.
       | 
       | ChatGPT like abilities + voice assistant and these 'voice
       | assistants' are relevant again and actually deliver on there
       | original promise.
        
       | ghaff wrote:
       | At least Siri doesn't pester you to buy various things or to use
       | it for additional purposes like Alexa does as far as I know.
       | 
       | But, yeah, all the voice assistants are pretty bad or at least
       | bad enough that I mostly give up trying to use them for anything
       | other than certain rote tasks. Siri may or may not be marginally
       | worse but none of them are good enough to, say, really use hands-
       | off in a car unless I've carefully pre-defined tasks to perform.
       | (e.g. pick from a handful of memorized playlist names).
        
         | noncoml wrote:
         | > At least Siri doesn't pester you to buy various things or to
         | use it for additional purposes like Alexa does as far as I
         | know.
         | 
         | I was pretty happy with Alexa until they started that crap.
         | Retired it immediately. Now I only have a HomePod but even on
         | this I have Siri disabled.
         | 
         | Amazon screwed the reputation of the voice robots for everyone
        
           | mataug wrote:
           | > Amazon screwed the reputation of the voice robots for
           | everyone
           | 
           | I don't think amazon screwed the reputation of anyone's
           | assistant but their own. Plenty of people I know use voice
           | assistants at home, none use Alexa.
           | 
           | Voice assistants are genuinely useful for some scenarios,
           | especially in the smart home space.
        
         | mataug wrote:
         | This is exactly the reason why I replaced all Amazon echo
         | devices with HomePods. Siri makes many mistakes, doesn't hear
         | me correctly, doesn't understand me correctly, and so many
         | other issues. I can tolerate all these mistakes that Alexa also
         | makes.
         | 
         | I just cannot tolerate Alexa talking back to me, especially
         | when I'm trying to do something important. I've lost my train
         | of thought too many times because of Alexa.
        
           | cubefox wrote:
           | Why not use Google Nest? It has Google Assistant, which seems
           | to be better than Siri.
        
             | mataug wrote:
             | Just preference honestly, we have a lot of apple devices,
             | and it's nice to be able to keep things consistent. If we
             | both had Android Phones we would've probably used Google
             | assistant.
        
           | jlund-molfese wrote:
           | Same with Google Home! One too many times, I asked it what
           | temperature it was outside, and it went on some monologue
           | about how I should try asking it to give me a summary of my
           | day or something.
           | 
           | The optimal amount of times a product should interrupt your
           | workflow to tell you about a new feature is 1 or fewer.
        
         | deergomoo wrote:
         | Gah, my mother has a few Echoes dotted about her house and it's
         | the only inanimate object I feel compelled to tell to shut the
         | hell up on a regular basis.
         | 
         | Give me a direct response if warranted, otherwise a simple
         | chime or acknowledgement. Multiple years into ownership no-one
         | wants a "by the way..." with upsells to other Amazon services.
         | 
         | It's even worse if the reason you were talking to it in the
         | first place is to turn something down so you can actually speak
         | to someone.
        
           | thefourthchime wrote:
           | I HATE that it does that, it made me try to move to Homepods,
           | but even with Homebridge I couldn't get everything to work
           | with Homepods. Also, it has its own drawbacks, like no screen
           | to see a timer.
        
           | jabroni_salad wrote:
           | Make a routine with these commands. It has to run daily
           | because those cowards at amazon aren't quite ready to let us
           | off the upsell leash.
           | 
           | 1. Set volume to 0
           | 
           | 2. "Turn off by the way"
           | 
           | 3. Set volume back to your preferred.
           | 
           | I wonder what the conversion on 'by the way' is. Like how
           | many BTWs have played and how many customers have taken alexa
           | up on that offer?
        
             | HDThoreaun wrote:
             | "By the way" is alexa's entire business model. They sell
             | these devices at a loss and don't require a subscription
             | for the nlp so they can "by the way" you into buying random
             | shit. I'm surprised they let you mute it at all, especially
             | after devices lost $10 billion last year.
        
               | jabroni_salad wrote:
               | Then maybe it should try to make a sale instead of
               | blathering on about how I can ask it what sound does a
               | pig make.
               | 
               | They have 15 years of purchase history, prime video
               | usage, and presumably are snooping on what podcasts I
               | play over Echo. They should be able to suck a little
               | less. Any random page of a 20 year old sears catalog
               | would carry more relevance to me than anything Alexa has
               | suggested.
        
               | cubefox wrote:
               | I wonder why they sell these things at a loss. Wouldn't
               | they sell at cost?
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Internal cost accounting is complicated.
        
               | cubefox wrote:
               | At 10 billion dollars the accounting doesn't have to be
               | precise.
        
       | devmor wrote:
       | I'm glad I'm not the only one. I find it annoying, intrusive and
       | not useful for anything at all.
       | 
       | The only times I ever try to use it intentionally (like asking it
       | to take a note, or make a hands free call while I'm driving) - it
       | screws up or requires clarification to which I have to give
       | screen attention, defeating the purpose.
       | 
       | Most of the time it just pops up and annoys me when I call my
       | wife "sweetie".
        
       | ianferrel wrote:
       | Siri seems to be actively getting worse to me. Not necessarily at
       | understanding commands, but at the verbosity of its replies.
       | 
       | Recently, when I ask it to "Send a text to <name> that says
       | <content of text>" it says something like "I notice you often
       | send texts to <name> using Apple Messages, so I will use that for
       | this text. Is that Ok?" before reading me back the text and then
       | sending it. I'm sure that there are people out there who have a
       | rich and complicated mapping of text-communication-app to
       | recipients, but I literally have only one text communication app
       | on my phone, the one that it came with, and I only ever use that.
       | It's already annoyingly slow to interact with Siri on a multi-
       | step process, and adding _another_ step to it is awful.
        
       | bluejekyll wrote:
       | Ok, maybe I'm an outlier here, but I love Siri on my HomePods. It
       | does what I want in enough cases that it's useful, multiple
       | timers while cooking, setting them and canceling them when I am
       | putting things in or taking it out of the oven.
       | 
       | Granted, I have very few things I use it for, but I like it. The
       | kids like them in their rooms too. I'm happy with Siri, but maybe
       | I don't ask it to do much.
        
         | robbyking wrote:
         | That's the trick with Siri. I use it on my Apple Watch when I'm
         | riding my bike with an AirPod in: "Siri, play this podcast," or
         | "Siri, call so-and-so."
         | 
         | I think the secret is low expectations.
        
           | bluejekyll wrote:
           | I send text messages with it while on my bike as well. It
           | usually works fine and gets the point across.
        
       | aroundtown wrote:
       | Apple and other mega corps really need to spend some money
       | investing in training/education for these highly specific fields.
       | Advancement in Siri shouldn't be dependent on 3 people that were
       | lost to Google.
       | 
       | I know a bunch of capable programmers that would love the chance
       | to go into one of these specialties but don't have the resources
       | nor opportunities (time/money/location) to go back to school.
       | 
       | Siri could be so much better.
        
       | alfalfasprout wrote:
       | This is a nonstory, tbh.
       | 
       | The reality is Apple deeply cares about releasing a polished
       | product. Releasing an LLM-based Siri that makes really bad gaffes
       | would be a PR nightmare. Google already suffered that when it
       | opened up Bard despite pushback from folks working on it.
       | 
       | The fundamentals of LLM architectures, training, etc. are now no
       | longer "secret sauce" tons of major tech companies are working on
       | in-house LLMs at this point. I don't see Apple as not having a
       | future for Siri, it's rather a silly conclusion that doesn't have
       | much behind it at all
        
         | smt88 wrote:
         | > _The reality is Apple deeply cares about releasing a polished
         | product_
         | 
         | This is absolutely untrue in the Tim Cook era. Apple releases
         | buggy hardware and software all the time.
         | 
         |  _This article_ talks about how they released a bad product and
         | know it. Siri is significantly worse than both Google Assistant
         | and Alexa, and even those are comically bad sometimes.
         | 
         | Bugs in iOS and Siri give me rage aneurysms every single day
         | (coming from a long-time Android user who just wanted a small
         | phone).
        
           | mrguyorama wrote:
           | If you think this is limited to Tim Cook, you weren't paying
           | attention. Every single release of macbooks had issues with
           | heat killing GPUs and similar and apple always denied it
           | being a design defect.
           | 
           | Didn't steve jobs sit behind antennagate and bendgate?
        
             | smt88 wrote:
             | The software was significantly more polished in the Jobs
             | era. I don't know why, because it's not like it's something
             | Jobs obsessed over more than Cook. Apple just doesn't seem
             | to have "good software" in their DNA.
        
           | pschuegr wrote:
           | Yep. The reality is that Apple cares deeply about slick
           | marketing.
           | 
           | I've had great experiences with Apple hardware, personally,
           | but the software frequently makes me shake my head.
        
       | michelb wrote:
       | The reasons sound very Apple-like. The current template-based
       | Siri is not cutting it, but I do get the fact Apple does not want
       | Siri to give wrong or incorrect info. People already go bonkers
       | if an Apple Maps route is incorrect. Given that the current LLM's
       | are routinely giving false information, I'm betting Apple is
       | simply waiting on another leap or two in models, and slowly
       | rewriting Siri in the meantime.
       | 
       | I'm having a good time playing with LLM's, but I certainly don't
       | trust any output at face value. I know I would value a correct
       | answer from Siri, or any other service.
        
       | neurobama wrote:
       | I generally like Siri and rarely experience bugs. I use it to set
       | timers, get the weather, play music via Spotify, occasionally
       | dictate text messages, and look up trivia mid-conversation. It's
       | been my replacement for Alexa ever since I got creeped out by
       | Amazon's audio data retention. In this context I'm suprised to
       | hear Apple employees are unhappy with it.
        
         | SllX wrote:
         | I gave Siri a lot of time and forgiveness before writing it off
         | as an interface to set timers and literally nothing else, and
         | even that Siri fails often enough to annoy me. I can imagine
         | there's a happy medium for other people, but I'm unsurprised
         | that with as big a workforce Apple has now, there's a
         | contingent there with exactly the same opinions as a lot of us
         | out here. Siri sucks, unless it doesn't for you, but it still
         | sucks for the rest of us.
        
         | OkGoDoIt wrote:
         | I use Siri to set reminders except it is completely unable to
         | handle reminders like "remind me this afternoon to follow up
         | with Joe about the event on June 25". It sees the June 25 and
         | the reminder is now for the afternoon of June 25. I manage a
         | theater, so this is a very very common scenario and it's super
         | frustrating. It speaks to there being no real understanding
         | going on, just pattern matching on things that look like dates.
         | I don't need GPT4, but surely we can do better than this.
        
           | kgwxd wrote:
           | You could use shorthand for date and times in the title. I
           | tried your prompt saying "J N 2 5" instead but apparently
           | "this afternoon" is 5PM, so that's odd.
        
         | jamil7 wrote:
         | > I use it to set timers
         | 
         | Yeah, literally all I use it for is to set a timer when I've
         | put warm beer in the freezer.
        
         | daotoad wrote:
         | How do you get Siri to actually work with Spotify?
         | 
         | When I try to use it I get consistently laughably bad results.
         | `Play songs by Albert King on Spotify` yields something like
         | "Playing songs by R Kelly on Spotify". No, thanks.
         | 
         | Even when I ask for songs, albums, or artists I have saved in
         | my library, Siri invariably finds something else entirely
         | unrelated to play.
         | 
         | What's really frustrating is that this used to work reasonably
         | well for me.
        
           | esafak wrote:
           | Same for Google. I don't understand how it's got _worse_ not
           | better, given advances in machine learning.
        
         | gimme_treefiddy wrote:
         | Is it just me or Siri is very bad at picking up accents (mine
         | isn't that bad having lived in the US for a while) and
         | background noise.
         | 
         | One of the more impressive things about using the Google's
         | voice assistant was, it did very well in noisy environments.
         | Whereas with Siri, that is quite a bit of struggle. This is
         | only about speech-to-text, not text-to-whatever.
        
           | neurobama wrote:
           | It deals with my oven fan and similar regular kitchen noise
           | pretty well. I hold it close to my mouth at parties, so I
           | can't really compare it to e.g. Google Home or Alexa's far-
           | field capability.
        
         | 8ytecoder wrote:
         | Hey Siri, "add 2 minutes to the timer". It can't even do
         | something so basic as that.
        
           | neurobama wrote:
           | The inability to set multiple simultaneous timers is
           | annoying. I compensate by setting multiple alarms. "Delete
           | all my alarms" works when I'm done, but it's certainly a
           | hack.
        
             | vpribish wrote:
             | "hey siri, start a 10 minute timer for the oven"
             | 
             | "hey siri, set a 30 minute timer for the rice."
             | 
             | it works just fine for me, use it all the time.
        
               | neurobama wrote:
               | Doesn't work for me. I get this:
               | 
               | >There's already a [number] minute timer. Replace?
               | Confirm/Cancel
               | 
               | Running iOS 16.1, so unless they added this feature in
               | the last few months I'm not sure why we'd see different
               | results.
               | 
               | edit: Perhaps you're using HomePod? Apparently Siri on
               | HomePod supports multiple timers, while Siri on iPhone
               | does not. Goofy.
        
               | nneonneo wrote:
               | My _Apple Watch_ supports multiple timers, and yet my
               | _iPhone_ does not (iOS 16.4.1).
               | 
               | I mean, I guess a watch is supposed to be for telling
               | time or whatever, but this is just a weird feature
               | omission...
        
               | jamiek88 wrote:
               | siri definitely has multiple timers. BUT you can only
               | have two though and it only works on Apple Watch and
               | HomePods.
               | 
               | I know, right?
               | 
               | Also a little known hack to set a timer you don't have to
               | say the whole thing just press the Siri button or say hey
               | siri 'n minutes' and it will set a timer for n minutes.
        
             | JoeAltmaier wrote:
             | On Alexa I run many times simultaneously. Didn't know it
             | was a special feature. I just name them.
             | 
             | Latest update(?) it quit announcing expiration by name if
             | only one was running. Just beeps, and maybe I forgot what
             | it was supposed to be timing. Annoying.
             | 
             | Especially annoying if more than one person in the house is
             | setting timers.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | if you're using an anonymous timer, then it is difficult to
           | access it later. you might have better luck if you set an id
           | to reference later.
           | 
           | timerId = setTimer(float time);
           | 
           | function updateTimer(timerId) {};
           | 
           | maybe wrap that in a class, and use that when using Siri. you
           | just have to speak the class definition first.
           | 
           | Hey Siri! set a timer using myCustomClassTimer!
        
           | DHPersonal wrote:
           | It does have that ability on the HomePod minis that I have
           | around the house. If a timer is set on one of them and then I
           | want to reset it or add minutes to it, I can do so (but only
           | when that HomePod mini hears me).
        
             | jamiek88 wrote:
             | It works on watch and HomePod only.
        
         | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
         | Same experience. I use it for the same purposes and it's great
         | for hands-free, screen-free interaction of these simple tasks.
        
         | nailer wrote:
         | I have Alexa and I hate it as well as hating Siri. At this
         | point when bing (and maybe Google IDK) can handle general
         | knowledge questions with AI answers (and a disclaimer) I
         | basically consider Alexa / Siri unmaintained.
        
         | yellowait44 wrote:
         | Siri is also quite terrible at setting Homekit Scene. I totally
         | gave up on it. For example I have a scene named "Play Music
         | Everywhere" and even if I tell it explicitely with "Hey Siri
         | set scene Play Music Everywhere" it fails miserably. Also
         | simple task like: "Hey Siri play music on all HomePods" ends up
         | with "Ok playing music Everywhere". When did I say
         | everywhere??? I only want you to play on Homepods!
        
           | neurobama wrote:
           | I worked for several years in IoT and as a consequence avoid
           | smart home stuff like the plague, so this hasn't been a
           | problem for me.
        
           | nanidin wrote:
           | Yesterday: "Hey Siri, watch a movie in the dark" "Ok setting
           | scene watch a movie in the dark"
           | 
           | Today: "Hey Siri, watch a movie in the dark" "I can't find a
           | movie called In the Dark."
           | 
           | I also had a very frustrating issue randomly start happening
           | because one of my lights had the word "lamp" or "light" in
           | it. Thankfully googling the symptoms found others with the
           | same problem and a solution, but it was baffling as there
           | hadn't been any changes made by me in over a year prior.
        
         | smt88 wrote:
         | > _I generally like Siri and rarely experience bugs_
         | 
         | This is mind-blowing to me because I'd guess that ~50% of my
         | interactions with Siri are buggy. I mostly use it through
         | CarPlay.
         | 
         | It even fails to call the correct contact in my phone, which
         | should be the easiest thing it does.
        
           | matthewfcarlson wrote:
           | I'd argue that microphones in the car are laughably bad,
           | which probably hurts recognition. But it should be better.
        
             | smt88 wrote:
             | A) This happens whether in the car or not, and in the car
             | I'm often using AirPods to get better noise cancellation.
             | There's no excuse for this. I could talk to my Pixel 5
             | while driving from across the car.
             | 
             | B) It's not always a recognition thing. Siri often knows
             | what I said and has a completely baffling response to it.
        
         | butlike wrote:
         | I generally find Voice Over Utility to work better, in terms of
         | available commands and what it can do, but it's also harder to
         | use.
        
         | itsoktocry wrote:
         | > _I use it to set timers, get the weather, play music via
         | Spotify, occasionally dictate text messages, and look up trivia
         | mid-conversation._
         | 
         | I use my Google Home similarly. But understand that these use-
         | cases are utterly trivial, and Siri (by most accounts) and
         | Google (from experience) still manage to get them wrong too
         | often. It's unbelievable.
         | 
         | I have Google Home products and a YouTube Premium subscription.
         | By 1 of 10 times when I ask for music it'll default to Spotify,
         | which I have never used. How? Why? One of my speakers now
         | reacts to every request with an error when it's not the primary
         | speaker being spoken to.
         | 
         | It's a novelty, nothing more. I wouldn't rely on this stuff for
         | anything. In fact, it's a bug or two away from being
         | permanently removed.
        
         | crossroadsguy wrote:
         | That's exactly how Siri is supposed to be used.
         | 
         | If it can do something -- well, that's the usecase. It just
         | works.
         | 
         | If it can't do - then why would even one be trying to do that!
         | That's not how it's done.
         | 
         | That's the Apple way. And that's exactly how Siri is perfect!
        
         | jaypeg25 wrote:
         | Siri, Alexa, and Google Assistant are all generally good at
         | those things but honestly not much else. I use my Google Home
         | every day for timers and to turn on/off lights. I don't think
         | any of them will ever be the helpful AI that they were
         | initially promoted as, though.
        
           | Pxtl wrote:
           | I'm shocked how much the quality of Google Assistant has
           | degraded over time.
           | 
           | I have a Mini that consistently misunderstands broadcast
           | requests and says "sorry I'm not playing anything right now".
           | When it occasionally speech-to-text converts a broadcast
           | word, it consistently cuts off the first word or letter, even
           | when it's "I'll be right down" users will get "L L be right
           | down".
           | 
           | It used to support simple offline requests like SMS and
           | Navigate when data was unavailable. No more.
           | 
           | It used to integrate with Google Keep. No more.
           | 
           | No longer recognizes the word "torch" as a synonym for
           | flashlight. Why would I be asking to turn on my phone's
           | "porch"?
           | 
           | Painfully slow replies, even under ideal network
           | environment... Just spinning forever, often until a timeout
           | that it doesn't even have the decency to respond with a
           | proper error message.
           | 
           | It's just amazing how they launched a product with a clear
           | "this is where we are, this is our vision of where we're
           | going" and they _still sell it_ but instead they 're going in
           | the opposite direction.
        
             | esafak wrote:
             | My pet theory is that they were launched by the A team, who
             | got replaced by the B team when the A team left for greener
             | pastures. Or maybe they got it working, but in a bid to get
             | another promotion they kept tweaking it, making it worse in
             | ways that matter to us but not the promotion committee.
        
             | nneonneo wrote:
             | See, at least Siri _usually_ is ready to take your input
             | the moment you press the button, even if it then casually
             | discards your input because it can't reach apple's servers
             | or whatever.
             | 
             | Google Maps: I swear, about half the time I try to activate
             | voice search, it sits and spins before even accepting any
             | voice input at all. Why can't it just start reading the
             | microphone right when I activate it, and _then_ submit the
             | saved audio whenever it's done getting set up? It's so
             | abysmally poor that it's usually faster to scroll through
             | recent destinations or literally grab the phone, unlock,
             | and put in a destination.
             | 
             | This is just a market begging to be disrupted. I want to
             | see a startup combine Whisper, GPT, and a competent TTS
             | model into a killer voice UI!
        
               | Pxtl wrote:
               | What flabbergasts me is how often the screen will display
               | a successful speech-to-text capture, and then it poops
               | the bed anyways. Like, you did it! You did the hard part!
               | The part that feels like goddamned _magic_ to me,
               | converting the noisy messy reality of sound-waves into
               | text. And then it drops the ball on the simple pile of
               | "if" statements it takes to convert that text into an
               | action.
        
           | neurobama wrote:
           | >I don't think any of them will ever be the helpful AI that
           | they were initially promoted as, though.
           | 
           | I must disagree. ChatGPT-style LLM functionality with
           | ElevenLabs-quality realtime voice synthesis will absolutely
           | supercharge these products. The ability to e.g. answer kids'
           | questions in simplified English according to parental prompt
           | guidelines, or drill down on complex educational topics, or
           | maintain context over many back-and-forth conversational
           | interactions will be huge.
        
             | genericacct wrote:
             | Strongly agree, tons of educational and entertainment value
             | will be unlocked.
        
               | neurobama wrote:
               | I'm really excited for LLM D&D dungeon masters.
        
         | testfrequency wrote:
         | You do know that Apple was also caught retaining raw request
         | data from Siri as well, right?
         | 
         | I'm also surprised you're surprised?
        
       | Dennip wrote:
       | I use Siri fairly frequently for setting timers, controlling my
       | smart home and the like, but for me where it falls down is really
       | understanding natural language. Personally I found that google
       | assistant was way way ahead of siri in this regard. I could ask
       | it to do something and it would just _understand_ what I want.
       | 
       | One issue I frequently have with siri is that commands that work
       | one day suddenly don't the next. If I ask siri to "lock screen"
       | it tries to find smart home door locks (which i dont have)
       | instead of locking the device screen, eventually I figure out
       | some combination of lock device/screen/phone screen/off etc that
       | works, so siri does know how to do this but isn't smart enough to
       | figure out my intent.
       | 
       | The other issue is that siri unlike google assistant can't
       | maintain a train of thought, You can't say "hey siri dim the
       | bedroom lights" and follow that up with "hey siri..a bit more"
       | unlike with google where it seems to be aware of the context of
       | what it did prior.
        
         | RandomWorker wrote:
         | The lock screen issue is really funny. Because I have the same
         | experience where I will come home and say hey, Siri lock screen
         | to close the navigation. However, now it doesn't seem to work
         | anymore and I have tried some of your prompts and some
         | combination does work.
        
         | sorum wrote:
         | > where it falls down is really understanding natural language.
         | 
         | I would settle for Siri understanding simple commands. Natural
         | language is something for Apple customers in the 2040s. I want
         | to not have to use creative language skills to decipher things
         | in Reminders. "Who is this Paul Cage I'm supposed to call? Oh,
         | repairing the pool cage."
         | 
         | Forget LLM or natural language processing; Siri needs to catch
         | up to 2018's Google Assistant
        
           | nanidin wrote:
           | Amazon mitigated bad speech transcription by providing a link
           | to listen to the underlying audio.
           | 
           | Apple has never offered this and it has led to lots of head
           | scratching at the grocery store as I work through my shopping
           | list. It still beats trying to use the Alexa app while
           | shopping, though.
        
           | transcriptase wrote:
           | 2023 Google Assistant needs to catch up to 2018 Google
           | Assistant. It has become progressively worse since I invested
           | a great deal into setting it up with smart-home devices in
           | that very year.
        
         | sleepybrett wrote:
         | I also use it in a limited way and it's fairly successful. Just
         | homekit turn on turn off and set scenes.
         | 
         | However I have one frustrating bug with shortcuts that sends me
         | over the moon. I have a little shortcut that just sends a
         | simple text message when i say 'Hey siri, Sweetie' about 20% of
         | the time siri comes back telling me about musical artist
         | sweetie... it's braindead.
        
       | huehehue wrote:
       | Maybe it's the emerging neo-Luddite in me, but I'm alarmed at how
       | many people begrudgingly continue to use these tools
       | (accessibility reasons notwithstanding, which is an admittedly
       | major caveat).
       | 
       | I have a very low tolerance for error in things like setting
       | timers, playing music, getting weather, calling someone. This is
       | because I can complete these tasks simply, quickly, and with 100%
       | reliability by hand. The marginal improvements allowed by tools
       | like Siri aren't worth it to me if there is _any_ decrease in
       | reliability.
       | 
       | I'm sure there are use cases I'm not considering, but I've also
       | seen perfectly able-bodied folks shout "call Steve" into their
       | phone for 40 seconds longer than it would have taken to navigate
       | manually. Conceptually, the idea of stacking _even more_
       | engineering onto these tools to get these tasks working reliably
       | is funny.
        
         | mrtranscendence wrote:
         | It doesn't matter how frequently Siri gets things wrong, my
         | wife insists on using it for everything. The number of times
         | I've heard her repeat herself to Siri five times in an
         | increasingly frustrated tone is pretty high. It's baffling.
        
         | mmmmmbop wrote:
         | Nah, I'll have to disagree with you there. I don't know about
         | Siri, but I am one of those people using the Google Assistant
         | to set timers and reminders, and for me at least, this is
         | reliable (enough), and definitely faster than by hand.
         | 
         | The obvious use case is setting a timer while cooking, when the
         | phone is at the other end of the room and your hands may be
         | dirty, but I'm using it even in non-cooking settings.
         | 
         | In fact, I just tried it and timed both approaches for setting
         | a reminder. Results:
         | 
         | * Assistant: "Hey Google, set a reminder 10 days from now to
         | file my taxes.": 4.5s to say it (I'm free to focus on other
         | things after this point), 7.5s until reminder is created.
         | 
         | * Manual (pick up & unlock phone, open app drawer, open
         | Calendar app, find the day 10 days from now, click on that day,
         | click create a reminder, type in "file my taxes", save): 17s
        
           | huehehue wrote:
           | > reliable (enough)
           | 
           | This is the key thing, and the formula's different for
           | everyone. I know that my strategy of "look at the clock and
           | remember" will work until I'm senile, as will "panic-check
           | the mail every day until my last tax form arrives and file
           | that night"
        
           | beerpls wrote:
           | So Apple pumps more than a billion dollars into developing
           | and marketing a virtual assistant which fails the vast
           | majority of the time and you're proud of it because it can
           | set a timer by voice?
           | 
           | I'm just going to say - i'm underwhelmed
        
         | rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
         | Siri is tremendously frustrating to me, but helpful to my
         | parents whose eyes are going bad.
         | 
         | For all Google's faults, the Google assistant is years ahead of
         | Siri and Alexa at natural language comprehension. It's not
         | perfect, but it clears my bar, and it comes in handy a few
         | times per day.
        
       | gwbas1c wrote:
       | I found voice controls in _anything_ to be so clunky in the early
       | 2010s that I just rolled my eyes at things like Siri and smart
       | speakers. I 've never even tried them.
        
       | adam_arthur wrote:
       | What would Siri's market share be if you could easily install
       | Google assistant on iPhone? How much more investment would Apple
       | have put into Siri if they had to compete?
       | 
       | I haven't noticed any improvement in Siri in close to a decade of
       | being in the Apple ecosystem. The most frustrating thing is that
       | every time I ask it to "turn the lights on", it thinks I'm saying
       | "off". I grew up in the US and have no notable accent or mumble.
       | 
       | Note that there are hacky ways to add google assistant, but it
       | doesn't get integrated into the OS in the same way
        
         | jamiek88 wrote:
         | Do you actually use google assistant?
         | 
         | The grass ain't greener, it is rubbish too.
        
       | geuis wrote:
       | I think I might be in the minority based on other comments here.
       | 
       | I hate things like Siri and whatever Android phones have.
       | 
       | It's incredibly rude every time I hear someone almost yelling
       | into their phone in public. They get frustrated Siri doesn't work
       | and loudly and slowly say whatever it is again like being mean to
       | a dumb child.
       | 
       | People speak out entire text messages and the replies. I'm not
       | pointing out folks with disabilities. I'm talking about perfectly
       | healthy adults who seem to have no sense of awareness around
       | them.
       | 
       | On my phone, I found it infuriating that Apple just inserted this
       | Siri icon into the keyboard next to the spacebar. It took me a
       | while to figure out how to disable it. I already have large
       | hands, but my typing accuracy is pretty good and fast. When that
       | icon was there, it reduced the width of the spacebar and return
       | keys and made it impossible to type without Siri popping up every
       | few lines.
       | 
       | I think more broadly I have a prejudice against devices listening
       | to me. I've never liked Alexa, Siri, or any other voice based
       | automation system like customer support phone trees. Very rarely
       | I've encounter a phone system that works well, but mostly these
       | devices and systems are just infuriating to work with.
        
         | javawizard wrote:
         | > I'm not pointing out folks with disabilities. I'm talking
         | about perfectly healthy adults who seem to have no sense of
         | awareness around them.
         | 
         | Careful. It's easy to overlook disabilities that may not be
         | immediately externally visible.
         | 
         | I have a friend who's heavily dyslexic. You'd never know it if
         | you ran into her on the street; she's quite successful in her
         | career. Yet she uses voice dictation when sending text messages
         | because it's an order of magnitude less time and cognitive
         | effort for her to write something out that way.
         | 
         | I tend to think the world would be a better place if we were
         | all just a little bit less judgemental of things we see others
         | doing that we can't immediately explain.
        
           | robocat wrote:
           | > I'm talking about perfectly healthy adults who seem to have
           | no sense of awareness around them.
           | 
           | There's also a few DSM5[1] diagnostic categories that could
           | cover that behaviour.
           | 
           | However, it is a somewhat cultural behaviour - you see it
           | more in some countries or places within a country - some
           | people are just jerks.
           | 
           | Perhaps they could just add "arsehole" as a new diagnostic
           | category to cover highly inconsiderate people. Just needs
           | better wording.
           | 
           | [1] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dsm5
        
           | geuis wrote:
           | That's a _very_ fair criticism. I hope no one reading my
           | parent comment thinks I 'm disregarding people like your
           | friend. I'm not.
           | 
           | I'm referencing people who also think it's fine to loudly
           | play music or have entire conversations with the phone
           | speaker on in public.
        
       | nineplay wrote:
       | Every company has engineers who don't like some products or
       | features. We aren't mindless corporates drones. I don't
       | personally use any of my employer's applications.
       | 
       | Some article like this comes up every so often and it's so non-
       | newsworthy. Anyone who's been at a project planning meeting knows
       | there's a small contingent of engineers in the corner muttering
       | that it's a terrible idea and it will never work.
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | > _The report today explains that Google wanted these three
       | engineers "badly enough that its CEO, Sundar Pichai, personally
       | wooed the group."_
       | 
       | How do they conduct the interviews, in that situation?
       | 
       | Not the usual tech megacorp brogrammer "technical interview"
       | hazing?
        
         | Mountain_Skies wrote:
         | Hopefully they skip that step but it is weird how often a
         | recruiting process goes from having a recruiter cold contact
         | you with platitudes singing your praises and how valuable you
         | would be to their company and then the next step is to have a
         | group of interviewers demanding to know why you're worthy of
         | being in their presence while expecting you operate like a
         | broken clone of Google and also recite CS theory that has never
         | been even slightly applicable to the open position. But at
         | least the 'inside-out condom' brain teaser has finally gone out
         | of favor.
        
           | neilv wrote:
           | Sigh, I've been on the receiving end of that multiple times.
           | :)
           | 
           | In some companies (the ones that aren't just cargo-culting or
           | on autopilot) I'd bet that someone in HR/compcommittee
           | consciously intends it to be hazing rather than evaluation.
           | Maybe theory like that it makes the company psychologically
           | seem more attractive (the brain thinks, if you're jumping
           | through hoops for them, there must be a reason), and to take
           | candidate's ego down a notch so they're less demanding in
           | compensation negotiation.
        
         | catiopatio wrote:
         | Generally, you sit down to a meal or coffee with the executive
         | in question; they answer your questions and try to convince you
         | to join.
         | 
         | That conversation might span a few sit-downs or extend into
         | e-mails.
         | 
         | If you eventually say "yes", you'll be funneled into the hiring
         | pipeline midstream, skipping the entire front-end process.
         | 
         | It's largely a formality -- HR is told to hire you unless
         | there's a glaring red flag.
         | 
         | When I've been in that position, I wasn't even asked for my
         | resume until _after_ we'd already negotiated my compensation,
         | solely for inclusion in my HR file.
        
         | rm_-rf_slash wrote:
         | "Thank you for coming. As you know, I am a busy man so let's
         | get started: iterating numbers 1 to 100, every third number
         | print _Fizz_ ..."
        
       | sharkweek wrote:
       | I love my iPhone, it's a great device.
       | 
       | However, quite literally the only two things I use Siri for are
       | asking "what song is this?" and "set a timer for X minutes."
       | 
       | I'm sure there are ways I could be using it for any number of
       | things that might improve some routine process in my life, but I
       | never found them.
        
         | jurassicfoxy wrote:
         | The most impressive thing I can get Siri to do is "Hey Siri,
         | play my <playlist name> on Spotify", and it works consistently.
         | "Hey Siri, reply." is another decent one, but it seems to be
         | working poorly lately.
        
         | wiredfool wrote:
         | The timer, sometimes, and occasionally I try to get Siri to
         | play something in the car so I don't have to look at my phone.
         | It normally fails -- it will play something random from apple
         | music before it plays anything from my library.
        
           | mthoms wrote:
           | This drives me nuts. I get it, sometimes albums and songs
           | have similar names. It seems like Siri should be able to
           | deduce which I'm asking for given I've listened to one album
           | over a hundred times and never listened to the random thing
           | with the same name it decides to pull up.
        
       | nneonneo wrote:
       | I'm frankly surprised that Siri hasn't moved to on-device voice
       | recognition. It's by far my biggest complaint with Siri: random,
       | unpredictable delays or outright failures to recognize simple
       | messages because the network is unstable or unavailable.
       | 
       | There's other trash too: the other day I tried asking Siri to
       | play a song from my library, but it misinterpreted the song title
       | and proceeded to _activate a seven day trial of Apple Music
       | Voice_ to play some random track on Apple Music. I didn't ask for
       | that subscription!
       | 
       | To be fair, for the tiny subset of functionality I do use -
       | navigate by voice, set timers, get terrible jokes to amuse
       | passengers - it works fine.
        
         | mrbombastic wrote:
         | Yes, incredibly frustrating that to ask Siri to play a song
         | from your library on your device you need a network connection.
        
         | moconnor wrote:
         | Siri does use on-device voice recognition. Active airplane mode
         | and you can still use it.
         | 
         | Edit: for some commands only it seems. I agree with OP, this is
         | odd.
        
           | shagie wrote:
           | Its a question of if it can determine the intent (
           | https://developer.apple.com/documentation/sirikit ) on device
           | or if it needs to go to the cloud to understand it.
        
           | yellowait44 wrote:
           | Not on HomePods as far I as know.
        
           | nneonneo wrote:
           | Seems like it does - cool! - but why does it sometimes spin
           | for several seconds when faced with a seemingly simple
           | request? I'm guessing it has some path where it tries to use
           | the network if possible, but if the network is spotty then
           | the requests timeout and it reports a failure?
        
             | ls612 wrote:
             | It probably takes more time to run the analysis locally on
             | a phone chip.
        
               | cglong wrote:
               | When Google brought the Assistant locally to the Pixel,
               | one of the talking points was how much faster it was.
        
         | IceWreck wrote:
         | Whats the excuse for this ? Whisper is open source, resource
         | efficient and can easily work on device. I wonder why they
         | havent switched to that.
        
         | deergomoo wrote:
         | > because the network is unstable or unavailable
         | 
         | All of Apple's services by and large handle spotty networks
         | _horribly_.
         | 
         | Take Apple Music for example: if you want to play music you've
         | downloaded to your device, it's often better to switch into
         | airplane mode, because with a present-but-poor signal it will
         | still try to load album listings etc over the network, and sit
         | there on a spinner.
        
           | InitialLastName wrote:
           | This is a common developer curse. I just ran into an issue at
           | my job where customers were having an issue in the field that
           | we just couldn't reproduce in the office; it took a long time
           | to put together that the issue was related to failing
           | downloads on sketchy networks because all of our networks are
           | stable and fast.
        
           | claytonjy wrote:
           | Spotify is just as bad in this regard! It used to handle
           | spotty connections flawlessly a few years ago, but at some
           | point it was altered to keep trying to pull album art and
           | track listings from the network even for downloaded albums.
        
           | jackson1442 wrote:
           | Not that this excuses it, but I've been able to get this to
           | work by going into the "Downloaded" tab in the Music app.
           | That seems to play directly off the device.
        
         | mustacheemperor wrote:
         | I hunch that on-device recognition leveraging the onboard ML
         | hardware will be a whole new thing. The Siri brand is so
         | damaged now I expect they'll launch something new instead of
         | "but it's actually good now!"
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | "Assistant" type devices which can actually do things besides
       | reply can't yet use large language models safely. LLMs need to
       | get past the problem of making up stuff when they don't know
       | something. Until then, it's not safe to give them power over
       | devices.
        
         | valine wrote:
         | There's nothing particularly unsafe about LLMs. Giving Sirious
         | access to a weather api and timers is not gonna break the
         | world.
         | 
         | If anything, giving LLMs access to apis makes them less likely
         | to hallucinate.
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | Huh?
           | 
           | If they have control of door locks, there's a problem.
        
             | valine wrote:
             | Why is that a problem? If you don't want the model to
             | access your doors you disable it at the API level. Siri
             | already has an option for that today.
        
         | 8ytecoder wrote:
         | They can - if we split it into parsing, execution and response.
         | If LLMs only do parsing and response and execution is limited
         | to actions that are prepogrammed, i think we'll have a much
         | better assistant. Like, it could be interactive and natural.
         | But i agrees that it shouldn't be given unfettered access to do
         | whatever it wants.
        
       | lynx23 wrote:
       | Siri, don't make me even start. I like much of what Apple does,
       | but Siri is just hilariously bad. The error rate at speech
       | recognition seems to have gone up over the years. Keywords are
       | randomly being changed, sometimes they fire, a day later you have
       | to use a different phrase to get what you want. They even broke
       | "Where am I" at least in German. "Wo bin ich" is sometimes
       | replied to with "Sein oder nicht sein" (to be or not to be) which
       | indicates Siri is trying to be smart and fails totally. I am
       | blind and use this feature when I have a feeling I might have
       | been lost. Very funny if you ask a simply question like "Where am
       | I" and your voice-assistant is fucking with you about
       | pseudophilosophically. "Was lauft gerade" did also just fail a
       | few hours ago. Siri just started to play something from my
       | library, which is not what I wanted. All in all, its a
       | embarrasing failure all around. Oh, and before I forget, when
       | Siri fails to understand the name of the person I want to call,
       | it says "OK, I am calling <your name>" and actually tries to dial
       | my own number. This is so dumb, it feels like a joke put in there
       | by an intern.
        
         | dmd wrote:
         | I found this on the web for "make me even start".
        
         | Avamander wrote:
         | The worst part about Siri in my opinion is how it can do bulk
         | actions when it mishears you. You want the ceiling light off?
         | Okay, turning off all the lights. Or the opposite, it turns
         | *everything* on, which can be even more annoying.
        
           | heleninboodler wrote:
           | It's also surprisingly unaware of how poorly it's performing.
           | I have recently noticed that when you ask it to send text a
           | text message for you, it follows up with a suggestion that
           | you turn on auto-send for siri-dictated messages, even after
           | it took you six tries to get it to understand you.
        
           | pram wrote:
           | They're all complete crap. I use Google Home to ONLY turn my
           | lights on or off and it gets it like 60% of the time.
           | Sometimes it accepts the command and it just doesn't even
           | work and says something went wrong. Pressing the light button
           | in the app is 100% consistent. Incredible.
        
             | scottyah wrote:
             | I've been superstitiously switching between "turn the
             | lights off" and "turn off the lights" (also with music). It
             | seems like every few weeks or days it prefers one over the
             | other.
        
           | matt_s wrote:
           | The voice commands are worse than touch screens and touch
           | screens are worse than the optimal solution which is a
           | tactile interface of switches/knobs. I stopped using Alexa
           | voice controls for lights since its inconsistent and switched
           | to a bluetooth switch, much more reliable have only had a few
           | instances where it didn't work.
           | 
           | I don't do lots of home automation mostly because the
           | automation isn't practical in a new build house that has
           | switches in appropriate places. There are extremely rare
           | circumstances where I want a light on/off in a room I'm not
           | in. However, it would be a fun project to build a nice remote
           | control with switches and knobs that you can program and have
           | it talk to the home automation solution. To make it even more
           | fun, I'm talking hard flip switches and volume like knobs,
           | really tactile.
        
         | mostlysimilar wrote:
         | It's infuriating when I ask Siri to play a song and it decides
         | to pick an obscure remix of the song one day, the actual song
         | another day, then another remix another day.
         | 
         | Did they test this at all? Why would you ever pick a _more_
         | complex /verbose option from the results list?
        
           | dabluecaboose wrote:
           | One of the most infuriating things about _any_ voice
           | assistant, IMO, is the absolute clunkiness with which you
           | have to try and control music.
           | 
           | I use Android Auto in my car for safety. God forbid I'm
           | listening to a song and want to queue up another one right
           | after. I don't think I've _ever_ gotten that behavior to work
           | without either skipping the current song or adding the second
           | song to the end of the queue. And even that 's assuming that
           | it even recognized the proper song out of my library and
           | didn't try to go to Youtube or something.
           | 
           | Meanwhile, if my buddy is riding shotgun, I can just say
           | "Hey, put on Peace of Mind next"
        
           | khazhoux wrote:
           | I wound up in a screaming match with my Homepod recently.
           | 
           | "Siri, play Beethoven"
           | 
           | <plays a Beethoven-derived hiphop track>
           | 
           | !!!
        
             | dxhdr wrote:
             | Had the same experience at a friends house trying to get
             | Alexa to play Bach. I gave up after a half dozen attempts.
             | 
             | These products are just hilariously bad.
        
               | cubefox wrote:
               | Names are a hard problem though. How would it know how
               | "Bach" is pronounced? It seems you would need pretty
               | advanced multimodal AI, some sort of GPT which is trained
               | both on text and audio.
        
               | dxhdr wrote:
               | That's kind of my point, it's a product that doesn't
               | work. It's a language interface that can't understand
               | language.
               | 
               | FWIW I tried many alternatives like "Bach classical
               | music" etc to no avail.
        
               | khazhoux wrote:
               | "Bach" is a word like any other, and unambiguous in
               | English pronunciation.
        
               | cubefox wrote:
               | There is no "English" here, it's a name of a concrete
               | person which has only one correct pronunciation.
               | 
               | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/De-
               | Bach....
        
               | khazhoux wrote:
               | The accurate pronunciation in German is irrelevant. Siri
               | is always constrained to one language (Settings > General
               | > Language & Region), and when set to English you get
               | English pronunciations.
               | 
               | Same way Siri understands the english "Los Angeles" even
               | though the G sound is completely different from Spanish.
               | 
               | The english IPA for Bach is straightforward.
        
               | BoorishBears wrote:
               | GPT doesn't need to know, I told it to convert possible
               | mistranscribed text to commands, "Play me some back" =>
               | "Play me some Bach"
        
             | jackvalentine wrote:
             | I take your point but really like the mirth of a man who
             | died 30 years before audio recordings being represented by
             | a hip hop version of one of his pieces! He never recorded a
             | canonical version of anything!
        
         | PicassoCTs wrote:
         | The project has been on the department trading bazaar, selling
         | itself out to survive.
         | 
         | "So we in the MacOs trading station, will push siri enable
         | notifications on powerbutton wakeup, if you push the following
         | answers on keywords up the likelihood.
         | 
         | Deal? Deal!
         | 
         | Thus she existed on, living long and prosperous.. through
         | diplomatic victorys, that destroyed the qualities that could
         | not keep her alive on her own..
        
         | garbagecoder wrote:
         | Apple does lay some turds. MobileMe. Whatever their attempt to
         | make iTunes into a social media network was called. Maps until
         | recently. Usually they fix them, but Siri never seems to get
         | better.
         | 
         | For what it's worth, I think Alexa has gotten worse, but for
         | different reasons.
        
           | Hamuko wrote:
           | > _Whatever their attempt to make iTunes into a social media
           | network was called._
           | 
           | "iTunes Ping" or "Apple Music Connect".
           | 
           | Yes, they tried it twice.
        
           | segasaturn wrote:
           | >Whatever their attempt to make iTunes into a social media
           | network was called.
           | 
           | It was called Ping for anybody wondering.
        
         | notvplez wrote:
         | I finally caved in and switched the Siri language to English on
         | all my devices, after trying and failing to keep it in my
         | native language on my iThings while simultaneously keeping my
         | new MacBook in English (because I prefer it on computers, and I
         | wanted the read time out loud at the hour-function turned on -
         | it kept reading it out in a mixture of both languages, wtf?).
         | Turns out it is much better in US English, but still completely
         | useless .
         | 
         | I just set timers using the crown on my watch now, combined
         | with custom google assistant commands to control what I need
         | (lights, tv) through my Nest. Playing and controlling music is
         | too much of an extreme sport for my taste on either assistant,
         | and I've stopped using it for calls too as there's always a 5%
         | chance it will call up some random person I knew decades ago
         | but haven't removed from my contact list because reasons. The
         | name is of course totally different from the few persons I do
         | call on a regular basis.
         | 
         | It's great for joking around with my kid though, laughing at
         | the misinterpretations and stuff like that. And that's about
         | it.
        
         | throwaway894345 wrote:
         | If you think Siri is bad, give Apple autocorrect a spin!
        
           | rootusrootus wrote:
           | We used to laugh about autocorrect mistakes, but over the
           | past few years it has gotten exponentially worse. Instead of
           | just screwing up the word I'm typing, it'll decide I meant a
           | different phrase and change the previous word too. If you're
           | not saying _exactly_ what it expects you to, it can be
           | extremely frustrating.
           | 
           | I've started turning many of the autocorrect-related features
           | off entirely.
        
           | deepspace wrote:
           | Oh dear $deity. Why does it insist on capitalizing "and" in
           | the middle of a sentence?
        
             | heleninboodler wrote:
             | On my phone, I've somehow gotten into a situation where I
             | can't type "butt" without it autocorrecting it to "Butt".
        
               | majormajor wrote:
               | "well" and "we'll" here
        
       | bparsons wrote:
       | Outside of driving, I never really understood the popular use
       | case for these voice assistants. In most situations it is easier
       | to type your query rather than say it out loud.
       | 
       | It was a novelty touted as a big leap in technology.
        
         | johnny22 wrote:
         | it's for when you can't type reasonably isn't i? Like while
         | you're cooking you might say "skip to next song" or "set a
         | timer for 10 minutes" or something.
         | 
         | That's how people describe it anyways.
        
         | throwaway_ab wrote:
         | I use Siri to turn on voice control when I drive. I have voice
         | control number every item on the screen.
         | 
         | This lets me have 100% control of every feature/button and
         | every app whilst I drive.
         | 
         | I can swipe on the screen using my voice.
         | 
         | I can write notes and messages.
         | 
         | I can switch to any app.
         | 
         | Voice control is a world leading accessibility feature that is
         | a complete touch replacement controlled via voice.
         | 
         | Once I no longer need voice control I turn it off via Siri. The
         | entire action of turning it on, using it, turning it off occurs
         | with no touch at any point.
         | 
         | Also it's great for when I am cooking or doing diy and don't
         | want to touch my phone.
         | 
         | In comparison Siri is better at a few narrowly defined actions
         | but has less than 1% of the scope of voice control.
         | 
         | Reading people's complaints about Siri in this thread I feel
         | what most people actually want is voice control.
         | 
         | But no one outside the visually impaired community knows about
         | it.
        
       | GenerWork wrote:
       | I find it odd how Apple has seemingly dropped the ball with Siri.
       | Don't all newer iPhones have some sort of neural chip or
       | something that could help Siri expand its capabilities? It's
       | strange that Amazon is so far ahead with Alexa and Siri is
       | lagging.
        
       | ubermonkey wrote:
       | "Even" implies a consensus that I don't think exists except in
       | the minds of people who find hating something recreational. Siri
       | works pretty fucking well in my experience, but that experience
       | is colored by my understanding of what it is, and what it's good
       | at.
       | 
       | You have to be aware of what makes a good Siri question or task.
       | Technical people tend to understand this implicitly; we are,
       | after all, talking to a computer, and computers are notoriously
       | literal and have trouble with implied contexts, etc.
       | 
       | I think I've talked about this here before, but my wife often
       | phrases questions to Siri in a way that results in the dreaded "I
       | can send the results to your iPhone" non-answer. One example I
       | remember happened when we were idly talking about King Charles.
       | My wife asked Siri "how old is king charles" and got the non-
       | answer. I asked Siri "what year was king Charles born" and got
       | hard data back.
       | 
       | It's that kind of thing.
       | 
       | In the narrow case of music there's more to complain about, I
       | guess, but the base problem is specificity and name collision. It
       | doesn't seem to always pull the example of any given non-unique
       | name that I might want; sometimes I wonder if what i get is just
       | random.
       | 
       | If you ask for "Take Five", you MIGHT get Dave Brubeck. I'd argue
       | that, in the absence of something specific, you SHOULD get Dave
       | Brubeck, and moreover you should get the album cut from "Time
       | Out." But Siri doesn't really agree, for whatever reason.
       | 
       | OTOH, if you ask Siri to play "Take Five from the Dave Brubeck
       | album Time Out" you'll get exactly what you want.
       | 
       | Siri excels in simple, discrete asks or tasks, though. We both
       | routinely use it to add things to the shared shopping list we
       | keep in Reminders. That's kind of awesome, and beats the old norm
       | of "go find a pen to add this to the list that you may or may not
       | remember to take with you when you go shopping." Setting timers
       | or alarms verbally is awesome. The list goes on.
        
         | daotoad wrote:
         | I have terrible luck with Spotify and Siri. These kinds of
         | specific requests fail.
         | 
         | I tried it with your prompt and Spotify started playing the
         | whole album. Which is better than my usual outcome. Of course,
         | it took three tries. The first two times Siri said it was going
         | to play and nothing happened.
         | 
         | Usually I don't even get the same artist or album I ask for.
         | Admittedly, I stopped trying a few months ago, so maybe they've
         | improved things a bit lately, or maybe I just got lucky.
        
           | ubermonkey wrote:
           | I don't use Spotify, so I can't comment, but when I make
           | those requests using Siri + Apple Music they tend to work.
        
       | rm_-rf_slash wrote:
       | > The company's senior leaders haven't shown much stomach for the
       | kinds of headline-grabbing gaffes ChatGPT and similar services
       | have stumbled into over the last several months.
       | 
       | Risk aversion from immature tech is a part of Apple's DNA. It
       | should be no surprise that Apple declined to push Siri beyond its
       | limited capabilities.
       | 
       | LLMs are quite new and Apple has plenty of cash to hire star devs
       | to catch things up. Writing off Apple's AI future is premature.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | You can't be apologetic about Apple by using some possible
         | future scenario. Siri sucks, and just about everybody agrees.
        
           | rm_-rf_slash wrote:
           | If you are betting that Siri will be the same 10 years from
           | now, I will not join you.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | Perhaps, but who cares _now_?
        
         | gilmore606 wrote:
         | > Risk aversion from immature tech
         | 
         | Boy, that Simpsons episode where they make fun of the Newton
         | really burned them bad.
        
       | wkat4242 wrote:
       | I think Siri could really benefit from some LLM goodness. It's
       | just too stupid. You have to deliver every command in bite-sized
       | exactly worded chunks. Really annoying. But the tech is at a
       | level where it can really improve it now.
       | 
       | It also needs some persistence. It needs to know that I never
       | want to play music on my homekit. I tried deleting all the music
       | from itunes but that stupid free U2 album keeps coming back and
       | it often thinks I want to play music instead of doing automation
       | actions.
       | 
       | And it should be able to read my texts and tell me if something
       | important comes in. Stuff like that. AI models should be able to
       | deliver those things. All this manually scripted stuff is a dead
       | end.
        
       | pavedwalden wrote:
       | I use Siri just for playing music, setting alarms, and reminders,
       | but even there I run into bugs on a regular basis. One day she
       | stopped being able to find songs from Apple Music, but could
       | still play anything I'd saved to my phone (wasn't reception or
       | CarPlay permissions or any of the obvious troubleshooting things
       | you'd think, trust me I looked into it).
       | 
       | Sometimes she'll also misinterpret commands for unclear reasons.
       | "Tomorrow at 7am, remind me to call John" and she responds "Ok,
       | I've turned on your 7am alarm". I try again, speaking more
       | clearly, and she says "Your 7am alarm is already on"
        
       | bdcravens wrote:
       | Many of things I used to use Siri for I've switched to Alexa
       | after putting Echoes throughout my house. It's just better.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | awisema wrote:
       | The claim that somehow LLMs as they stand are somehow the answer
       | is disturbing. ChatGPTs ability to be authoritatively wrong is a
       | serious problem...
       | 
       | Just to see what it would do, I gave it a basic word problem the
       | other day (two people drive towards each other) and it had the
       | steps right, but buried in it was a simple logic error (it
       | claimed that the two parties traveling at different speeds would
       | travel the same distance in a unit of time).
       | 
       | That it was good enough to seem trustworthy, made it worse...
        
         | pbronez wrote:
         | Sure, but do you need Siri to solve logic riddles? I don't. I
         | need it to reliably hit other APIs and shortcuts with some
         | basic arguments. Check out OpenAI's ChatGPT plugins [0]. You
         | can connect the LLM system to an external service with just an
         | OpenAPI model and a natural language description of what it
         | does. I want that, via voice.
         | 
         | [0] https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt-plugins
        
         | CamperBob2 wrote:
         | Did you try that with ChatGPT4, or 3.5? GPT4 has gotten better
         | at this type of problem, it seems.
         | 
         | I think the point people are making is that GPT models are
         | getting better at an exciting/disturbing pace depending on
         | one's point of view, while Siri has been around for years and
         | has only gotten worse.
        
       | jhwhite wrote:
       | I used to have Google Home and moved to Homepod Minis. I should
       | have ran them side by side, but that would have gotten very
       | confusing for other people in the family.
       | 
       | Siri is fine at controlling smart home devices, giving weather,
       | timers, etc...but if you ask it questions more times that not it
       | wants you to use your phone. Google Home handled that so much
       | better.
       | 
       | We have Apple Music and have Homepods around the house so we use
       | it for that.
        
       | eachro wrote:
       | I'd have expected speech recognition software to be good enough
       | that you could have direct speech -> gpt type services. It almost
       | feels like traveling to the past when asking things of Siri when
       | I otherwise get very useful responses from chatgpt.
        
         | shagie wrote:
         | Speech to text is already excellent with an iDevice. Turn off
         | WIFI and put it in airplane mode... then open up notes, hit the
         | microphone and start some transcription.
         | 
         | If you say "Buy a two by four" the transcription goes from
         | Buy         Buy a         Buy a two         Buy a two by
         | Buy a 2 x 4
         | 
         | "Four inches by three inches"                  For        Four
         | inches        Four inches by        4" by 3        4" by 3"
         | 
         | And that's all on device.
         | 
         | The issue is that when going to GPT, that's going to cost
         | _someone_ a few pennies each time a request is made. When that
         | 's scaled up to the installed base of all Macs and iDevices
         | that gets expensive fast.
        
       | jeromeof wrote:
       | I honestly don't know why Apple can't do their own ChatGPT. They
       | have the money / resources to then implement something like the
       | ChatGPT 'plugin' architecture so if someone wants to turn on
       | their lights or get specific 'private' information that apple
       | cannot give as 'training' data. i.e. callout to 'private' API's
       | if appropriate to a sensible LLM generated response
        
         | generalizations wrote:
         | I'm expecting that they will - and considering the raw power of
         | their local hardware, I think they have the best shot of anyone
         | at cornering the AI assistant market.
         | 
         | - private, on-device language model execution (see llama.cpp
         | for feasibility)
         | 
         | - a single, consistent AI available with you wherever you go
         | 
         | - total access to your personal information / documents (knows
         | your birthday, can see your meeting notes)
         | 
         | Because they have the hardware to run it locally, they have
         | three very hard-to-beat advantages:
         | 
         | 1) privacy, because the LMs can see all your stuff but none of
         | it goes back to apple. Microsoft can't do this; they get flak
         | every time they try and phone home with telemetry, and they
         | don't control their platform enough to run a massive LM in the
         | background.
         | 
         | 2) omnipresence: if you're in the apple ecosystem, you'll
         | always have your iphone with you. That means the LM will have
         | access to location data, maps, chat - everything. And since it
         | never leaves the phone, privacy-oriented people may be ok with
         | it. And that means the LM can be exponentially more useful than
         | just summarizing documents.
         | 
         | 3) evaluation costs - they are the only competitor who will not
         | have to pay for a massive datacenter, which means that the LMs
         | can be as powerful as the M2+ hardware they sell. Everyone else
         | will have no alternative to running the LMs on their
         | centralized, expensive hardware.
        
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