[HN Gopher] Linen.dev: A 500 kb Slack alternative
___________________________________________________________________
Linen.dev: A 500 kb Slack alternative
Author : cheeseblubber
Score : 270 points
Date : 2023-04-26 19:00 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.linen.dev)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.linen.dev)
| stavros wrote:
| Not to take away from Linen, it seems great, but whenever I see
| new chat software I lament the fact that Zulip isn't more
| popular. It's super fast, and its threading model is amazing.
|
| Zulip is the only software I've found where you can catch up on
| weeks of conversation extremely quickly. It's fantastic. I never
| felt that I lost messages, unlike Slack, and it's very
| responsive, again unlike Slack.
| tinyhouse wrote:
| The main problem with Zulip is that I always end up messaging
| in the wrong channel without noticing.
| stavros wrote:
| Hmm, really? How come? That never happened to me, I don't
| think.
| CoolGuySteve wrote:
| 500KB seems to be the bundle size, how much RAM does the client
| use?
| capableweb wrote:
| At https://www.linen.dev/s/linen
|
| Page open:
|
| Firefox: 18.5MB
|
| Chrome: 12.1MB
|
| After browsing:
|
| Firefox: 27.14MB
|
| Chrome: 11.7MB
| codedokode wrote:
| You must probably be using 16-bit computer because on my
| x86_64 system Firefox's about:processes tab shows 45-65 Mb of
| RAM usage after opening this page and scrolling. And
| Firefox's builtin tools tend to show smaller number than real
| usage: htop shows use of 85 Mb of PSS (proportional set size,
| that properly accounts for pages shared between processes).
| capableweb wrote:
| Or you must be measuring something more than just the
| memory Linen uses, like measuring how much memory the tab
| itself takes, which is Firefox + the application.
|
| Doing a heap snapshot will give you a better view of the
| page memory usage in isolation, without involving the
| browser itself.
| alberth wrote:
| FYI - this is a VC backed project.
|
| Expect this to become a paid offering at some point.
| cheeseblubber wrote:
| We do have a paid offering. Basically it's free on Linen's
| domain for public communities and we let you host on your
| domain like: https://archive.pulumi.com/
| https://linen.prefect.io/ https://slack-chats.kotlinlang.org/
| urbandw311er wrote:
| And you guarantee in writing that this pricing structure will
| never change?
| wg0 wrote:
| VC game will get crazy. Most VC backed products will have
| their end day like Twitter has almost.
|
| Initial and middle Investors kept passing the pie to the
| next bigger fool and the last bigger fool is now stuck with
| a very expensive web property desperate to recoup the
| investment let alone a 10x return.
|
| Sounds like a Bitcoin food chain.
|
| And then - aggressive monitization, price hikes staff cuts,
| SLAs adjustments etc.
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| I doubt it, VC firms and their principals have a
| reputation, and the community is not so big that they can
| endlessly pass the buck like this, without suffering
| consequences.
| Aeolun wrote:
| That wouldn't mean anything the moment they get bought.
| IceWreck wrote:
| I love that its google searchable which fixes the "knowledge-loss
| after afew days" problem.
| gigel82 wrote:
| I like Mattermost and Zulip: they have paid plans, but are also
| fully open source / self hostable, so you know your data stays
| with you if that's what you want.
| alexdanilowicz wrote:
| A lot of people already "live" in Slack (i.e., slack has a
| 'network effect', same with Discord) and so naturally I think
| people are more likely to engage with my community on a tool they
| are using because of work (their company is on slack). How does
| Linen think about addressing that concern?
|
| disclaimer: OSS founder here that cares a lot about managing
| community!
| cheeseblubber wrote:
| Sure thing! We support a two way sync between Slack and Discord
| so using Linen doesn't mean you have to migrate off of either.
| The end goal here is that we eventually build enough features
| that more and more people would prefer Linen in the long term.
|
| We think that there is a better chat app out there that isn't
| built yet that handles things like: 1. A non chaotic
| notification system. Slack and Discord stresses me out. We want
| to introduce things like !mentions which sends you a push
| notification and @mention notifies you but doesn't interrupt
| you. 2. Better thread and content management. Things can get
| messy in Slack and that you can't find information. We give you
| ability to move threads and messages around to help organize
| that and we want to do more to help people find content. 3.
| More power user features: Slack is probably the most used app
| for a lot of us and I don't think it is optimized for
| individual productivity. We want to build something that is
| designed for our productivity. Something along the lines of
| Linear or Superhuman.
| TheFreim wrote:
| Are third party clients allowed? One thing that has made me avoid
| discord and most of these sorts of chat apps is that they really
| hate users having customized clients. There's a lot of cool
| features that people have made for unauthorized discord client
| modifications which are technically forbidden which is not ideal.
| yieldcrv wrote:
| modern web development:
|
| find small packages for pagespeed metrics
|
| serve 100mb of ads and analytics
| Eduard wrote:
| Ah yes, highlight.js. One innocent import hljs
| from 'highlight.js';
|
| pulls in over a Megabyte of hundreds of programming language
| syntax definitions.
|
| Do you really need Mathematica, "ISBL", and "GML" -- or would a
| curated list of popular programming languages such as Python,
| Java, JavaScript, and HTML ("xml.js" ) be enough? This results in
| a massive reduction down to ~70 kilobytes.
|
| Even better: load this reduced size of highlight.js only on
| demand, leveraging Webpack's "import(..) to webpack chunk"
| mechanism: const getHighlightJs = async
| function() { let result; if (window.hljs) {
| result = window.hljs; } else { result =
| (await import('highlight.js/lib/core')).default;
| const javascript = (await
| import('highlight.js/lib/languages/javascript')).default;
| result.registerLanguage('javascript', javascript);
| const xml = (await
| import('highlight.js/lib/languages/xml')).default;
| result.registerLanguage('xml', xml); // xml provides
| html/html5 highlighting window.hljs =
| result; } return result; };
| const lazyHighlightAll = async function() { let result =
| null; // see https://highlightjs.org/usage/ //
| highlight.js's hljs.highlightAll() matches on 'pre > code'
| const hasHighlightableCode = document.querySelector('pre > code')
| ? true : false; if (hasHighlightableCode) {
| const hljs = await getHighlightJs();
| hljs.highlightAll(); result = hljs; }
| return result; };
| document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', function() {
| lazyHighlightAll(); });
| capableweb wrote:
| Hightlight.js basically have two main modes of usage:
|
| The one you complain about is specifically about importing
| everything, because that's what the user wants in that case,
| importing it like that signals that that's what the user wants.
|
| Otherwise you can do the following: import
| hljs from 'highlight.js/lib/core'; import javascript
| from 'highlight.js/lib/languages/javascript';
| hljs.registerLanguage('javascript', javascript);
|
| Maybe the defaults should be different, but a 30 second read of
| the most basic information available in the repository would
| reveal how you can use it the way you want too, without any
| complication that the rest of your comment seems to want to
| introduce.
| user3939382 wrote:
| Wouldn't it be possible to make an IRC client+server that's a
| perfect clone of Slack? I guess you'd need a SIP plugin for
| huddles.
| Minor49er wrote:
| You would also need to modify both the server and client to
| handle things like special roles and permissions, invitations,
| embeds, file hosting, chat history retention, chat search,
| threads, and custom reacts, to name a few differences
| dpcx wrote:
| How does this compare to Ripcord[0]? Granted there haven't been
| any new releases of Ripcord in a couple of years, it's super
| lightweight and mostly perfect for my uses.
|
| [0]: https://cancel.fm/ripcord/
| mdaniel wrote:
| > Ripcord is a desktop chat client for group-centric service
|
| apples and oranges?
|
| Also, I seem to recall there was some drama about if one used
| Ripcord against a Discord server, it resulted in your account
| getting banned
| raphman wrote:
| IIRC, ripcord works perfectly fine as a Discord client (used
| it myself for some time) - but if you have ripcord and
| Discord clients running at the same time, logged into the
| same account, Discord's anti-spam measures are triggered, and
| your account gets banned. Discord support refused to
| reactivate my account, so I had to pester the Discord
| security lead on Twitter - who was so nice to reactivate it.
| dpcx wrote:
| I misunderstood both the title of this post _and_ the
| headline of the article. I thought linen.dev was a chat
| client!
| palijer wrote:
| While the optimization is cool and an interesting read - it's
| interesting to call this a "Slack alternative" when there are
| only a couple similarities between the products in that they have
| people sending text messages to channels.
|
| This is more of an IRC/forum alternative to me (which Slack
| originally was) until it is possible to use Linen instead of
| Slack.
|
| Or just as a Slack plugin for the public Google search aspect -
| but this is absolutely incorrect to call it a Slack alternative
| for anyone who is using Slack as Slack. Things video/screen
| sharing/drawing huddles, integrations, SSO and permissions,
| slackbot, OCR search, notification settings etc aren't just a
| different of features - it makes it a different platform and tool
| entirely and solve different problems.
| RicoElectrico wrote:
| Honestly "alternative" should be a taboo word for most OSS
| projects, as it is overselling stuff. Manage expectations.
| mdaniel wrote:
| the Show HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33248488 and
| there was another thread last year for their main domain
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31494908
|
| I wish all the locked away Slack communities would use Linen[1]
| because there are so many nuggets of bug-fixery buried in Slack
| that will age off or never be found in the horrors of Slack
| search
|
| 1: I really wish they'd just stop using Slack entirely since
| Zulip is open source _and_ bundles this "allow search engine
| indexing" built-in, but I think that ship has sailed
| tomrod wrote:
| Tell me more about Zulip?
| stavros wrote:
| Unfortunately for Zulip, it's one of those things that you
| have to experience to understand how great it is. I can tell
| you all about its speed, its great UX, about how easy the
| threading model makes discourse, about how it's open source,
| about how it's a joy to navigate, etc.
|
| Nothing sounds like that big a deal unless you seriously try
| it in a company setting. I tried it once and there's no going
| back, I miss it every time I have to use Slack or Discord.
| breck wrote:
| Recently I saw that the Rust dev community is using Zulip:
| https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/
|
| I haven't used it yet, but in general excited by projects
| like Linen and Zulip. I hate Slack and Discord (I love the
| web, deep links, and indexability/searchability)
| ctvo wrote:
| https://www.google.com/search?q=Zulip
| tomrod wrote:
| Hey, glad you found information that works for you!
|
| In my experience, Google search results are poor these
| days, prioritizing esoterica or blogspam instead of useful
| insights due to decades of SEO battles. I prefer to hear
| what folks I'm directly interacting with are saying when
| they make a recommendation instead of jumping to the old
| "LMGTFY" silliness we all smugly passed to others circa
| 2008 who forgot to RTFM/RTA.
| dsr_ wrote:
| It's everything you want in a threaded chat server except
| federation.
|
| Web client is responsive and has good shortcuts.
|
| Easy-ish to self-host, cheap to buy hosted.
|
| Configurable privacy.
|
| Integration with all sorts of stuff, including email.
|
| A little lacking in community moderation tools.
|
| Text-mode client works acceptably well over a low-ish
| bandwidth connection.
|
| IOS and Android clients.
|
| Open source.
| switch007 wrote:
| It's also a clean, large, modern, type hinted Django
| project which is useful for learning Django
| dsr_ wrote:
| And the killer is this:
|
| We had an IRC server. IT and Ops used it.
|
| We moved to ejabberd. IT, Ops, and a couple of devs used
| it. Not all.
|
| We moved to Zulip. Everyone in the company uses it.
| mdaniel wrote:
| > Easy-ish to self-host, cheap to buy hosted.
|
| And, perhaps most relevant to my complaint, they offer
| hosting for open source projects (unlike Mattermost which
| is ... like, "send us email and we'll think about it" or
| something). I would guess Mattermost would feel the most
| comfortabe to Slack users, since I admit that Zulip has a
| different mental model than Slack, but I believe it is much
| better for ongoing thread management once one gets used to
| it (IOW, had they won the fight, it would be Slack that
| would be the "eww, what is going on with this threading
| model?!")
|
| ---
|
| https://github.com/zulip/zulip#readme (Apache 2!) just as a
| contrast to the sibling's LMGTFY comment :-(
| ghostpepper wrote:
| I think Slack has realised there are shortcomings in
| their threading as I just noticed today in the iOS app
| that there is an option to re-join a threaded comment
| back to the main channel after it's been sent to a
| thread.
| ghostpepper wrote:
| The functionality is amazing but the UX/UI is not polished
| to the level of a commercial product like Slack or Discord
| (or Twitter, which it is arguably more comparable to)
| stavros wrote:
| I disagree, the UX definitely is very polished, and much
| better than Slack. The UI, yes, I agree, though I find it
| very clean and functional.
| kodah wrote:
| I personally don't think Slack is a great product for open
| communities. While I don't think they're actively hostile to
| open communities it's certainly not their priority from a
| feature perspective. In my view, Slack is an _enterprise_
| product, and Discord is more of a commercial product. It 's
| very difficult to be both and gain necessary market share.
|
| There's also the tangential fact that open source shouldn't be
| relying on proprietary communication protocols that are
| difficult to migrate away from or make it difficult to maintain
| anonymity.
| pcthrowaway wrote:
| > here are so many nuggets of bug-fixery buried in Slack that
| will age off or never be found in the horrors of Slack search
|
| Do people consider Slack search subpar?
|
| I haven't used a chat app with a better one. Discord is abysmal
| by comparison
| moffkalast wrote:
| How's the search? Our company moved to self hosted Rocket Chat
| from Slack a while ago, and while it's acceptable in general, the
| search is literally the worst search I've ever used in anything
| ever. Can't even find an exact match in the currently opened
| thread.
| chatmasta wrote:
| We're happy with Mattermost, and search is quite good.
| dexterdog wrote:
| Even worse than slack's search?
| thex10 wrote:
| Not enough discussion here of the parts under "Our Optimization
| Strategies", which was the most interesting to me. Assorted
| reactions:
|
| > We found that react-icons had an issue that lead to everything
| being imported. This meant that we were including every single
| react-icon in our package whether we need it or not.
|
| Kudos to the Linen team for proactively finding this - I have a
| feeling tons of projects blindly trust that tree-shaking their
| dependencies will "just work" even though for many libraries it
| won't!
|
| > We also noticed that we were only using AWS client for s3
| upload on the client side and it was taking up significantly more
| bundle size we need so we replaced the entire client side package
| with a 2 api calls to the AWS api.
|
| For such a minimal use case, this feels like a logical choice
| even if it's slightly more work to implement.
|
| > We ended up moving the code highlight code to a backend api
| that would cache the results.
|
| Love seeing websites make smart choices about which work to
| handle in the server versus the client.
| MuffinFlavored wrote:
| > tree-shaking their dependencies
|
| What tool did they use: Browserify, Webpack, Gulp, Rollup,
| Babel, Parcel, ESBuild, etc.
| billiam wrote:
| It appears that they used Webpack, which I found interesting
| given other alternatives.
| SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
| The UI package appears to use Rollup.
|
| And this looks like the PR for the icons update:
| https://github.com/Linen-dev/linen.dev/pull/1001
| MuffinFlavored wrote:
| they had to change every import for an icon in 60 files.
| Wouldn't it have been better if a PR was done against
| Rollup to fix this "bug"? probably much more
| difficult/not possible?
| __ryan__ wrote:
| A commuter typically takes a free public bus ride to
| work. The bus broke down this morning. The commuter had
| to go out of their way to take a different bus to get to
| work. Wouldn't it have been better if they stayed and
| fixed the first bus?
| MuffinFlavored wrote:
| I get the proverb but you have to admit that it's kind of
| a big deal that a tree-shaker bundler optimizer has a
| pretty big glaring known broken issue with it where it
| doesn't bundle.
|
| The bus gets fixed eventually. This doesn't (unless
| somebody fixes it).
| WorldMaker wrote:
| It may not be a "bug" in rollup.
|
| Unfortunately, the current state of ESM in Node is such a
| mess that you can't assume most packages are tree-
| shakeable. There is package.json metadata to do that.
|
| It's more likely to be a "simple" bug (with far reaching
| consequences) in react-icons' package.json and/or build
| process.
|
| Taking a quick glance at https://github.com/react-
| icons/react-icons/blob/master/packa...
|
| Yeah, it's using the old non-standardized "module" field
| as opposed to the modern and mostly standard ( _now_ at
| least) "exports" field [1] or "type" field.
|
| "exports" would be a quick fix of the existing
| package.json file with no other changes to the build
| process, but given this is a UI package intended
| primarily for browser usage I'm having a hard time
| understanding why it bothers to include CommonJS _at all_
| and isn 't just `"type": "module"` and remove CommonJS
| from the build entirely.
|
| That probably points to why this hasn't been done yet: it
| gets into a bikeshed argument and a lot of potential
| discussion on big changes to a presumably "not broke"
| build system.
|
| [1] https://nodejs.org/api/packages.html#packages_exports
|
| (ETA: Existing Issue on this subject in that repo:
| https://github.com/react-icons/react-icons/issues/717)
| _fat_santa wrote:
| With icons, I've stopped using icon libraries a while back and
| now import just the SVG code that I need. I'm a big fan of Hero
| Icons[1] and they offer a way to quickly copy JSX or SVG code
| to the clipboard to faciliate this workflow.
|
| [1]: https://heroicons.com/
| riidom wrote:
| Additional shoutout to https://github.com/tabler/tabler-icons
| andrewxdiamond wrote:
| FYI there is a middle ground with the AWS SDK. If you don't
| need the entire thing (you certainly do not), you can import
| product specific SDKs as standalone. Still quite a bit fatter
| than building your own HTTP client, but it's an easy win if you
| already use the SDK.
|
| ex, an s3 only Java sdk:
|
| https://stackoverflow.com/questions/35591248/aws-sdk-for-s3-...
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| > Love seeing websites make smart choices about which work to
| handle in the server versus the client.
|
| The intro community discussion page at
| https://www.linen.dev/s/linen does need to load 20+ javascript
| files for some reason to show the latest messages.
|
| Whereas messages still show up even if javascript is entirely
| blocked, just starting from the beginning in 10/2022 (?).
|
| So I'm not quite sure if it's as optimized as it can be.
| lagrange77 wrote:
| Looks really cool and promising, i think i will give it a try!
|
| I found a 'typo':
|
| > Get branded colors and logos of your community or company. Your
| community should feel like yours and not
|
| The sentence does not
| s1k3s wrote:
| Another one: Rocket, a self hosted open source alternative:
| https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat
| anyfactor wrote:
| We actively evaluated Linen in launching our community. Although,
| we went with discourse as we are going for a forum type community
| platform but Linen certainly has fantastic potential.
|
| One very minor friction point with Linen was, it needs to be a
| bit transparent about their pricing for business tier. I don't
| think "contact us" pricing strategy is the perfect fit Linen's
| target audience.
| sideproject wrote:
| I've recently launched HN+
|
| https://www.hn.plus
|
| For anyone interested in HN-type forums (with lots of other
| features we've built)
| Aeolun wrote:
| Hmm, I feel like this could do with a different colored top
| bar. Making it look exactly like HN makes me feel more like
| 'why not use HN then'?
| nonethewiser wrote:
| Well for one, you can't moderate hackernews
| capableweb wrote:
| > Love HackerNews? HN+ includes everything you love about HN
| to start your own.
|
| Obviously HN+ is missing the single most important thing
| about HN, the users.
|
| Also, did you really have to steal the name too? Would
| probably been better off if you called it something
| different.
|
| By the way, you should read your own terms of service and
| maybe start following it yourself if you ask others to follow
| it too?
|
| > Your site is not getting advertised via unwanted electronic
| messages such as spam links on newsgroups, email lists, other
| forums and web sites, and similar unsolicited promotional
| methods;
|
| > Your site is not named in a manner that misleads your
| readers into thinking that you are another person or company.
| For example, your site's URL or name is not the name of a
| person other than yourself or company other than your own;
| and
| cheeseblubber wrote:
| Sorry about that. It was a vestige of Linen's first version
| being very Enterpise sales heavy and we haven't updated it. At
| the moment it is 150/month for 5000 members for our paid tier
| and 50/month more for every 5000. Will update it this week!
|
| We just shipped our self checkout flow last week:
| https://github.com/Linen-dev/linen.dev/commit/61c482cab5d5aa...
|
| Just hadn't got the chance to update it on the landing page yet
| tomrod wrote:
| Reasonable for enterprise, but that's pretty high for my
| tranche in small business. Any possibility of matching Slack
| pricing for super small (<20)?
| cheeseblubber wrote:
| Oh yeah we're planning on introducing pricing for teams
| soon. Right now we've been focusing on communities. So will
| have something out for teams soon!
| [deleted]
| Aeolun wrote:
| Does that count active users? Or total users? Be a bit sad if
| you were perpetually paying for some rando that posted a
| message 5 months ago.
| sandGorgon wrote:
| this is very cool! what things of slack does it NOT have -
| genuine question here. Like private channels, etc etc ?
|
| can it replace slack basically ? what will i have to do ?
| 2h wrote:
| seems private chats are not a thing. which is a dealbreaker for
| me coming from Discord. I asked in support so I guess we will
| see.
| [deleted]
| rado wrote:
| The "Join" modal should trap focus.
| rahimnathwani wrote:
| It might be worth testing different variants of the landing page
| copy. The version I see is this: Google-
| Searchable and community focused
|
| Slack alternative Sync your Slack and Discord conversations to
| Linen and get SEO benefits while reducing customer support load
|
| The latter sounds like I need to be a Slack or Discord user, and
| Linen makes the conversations searchable on the web. But the
| title (Slack alternative) makes it sound like I can use Linen
| _instead_ of Slack.
|
| Which is it?
| Aeolun wrote:
| Yeah, I had the same questions. Is it a chat app, or an
| indexing app?
|
| After spending some more time it seems to be a chat app that
| allows importing.
| CSSer wrote:
| And that's a pity because I got really excited by the
| prospect of the alternative. It made my gears start spinning
| for viable ways to accomplish that. Oh, the ideas I'd work on
| if I had unlimited time...
| wilg wrote:
| I won't run any apps over 480 KB unfortunately.
| nonethewiser wrote:
| Why 480?
| peoplearepeople wrote:
| I'm pretty happy to run anything below 640 KiB myself
| ronsor wrote:
| That should be enough for anyone, anyway
| a3w wrote:
| Found the time traveling Bill Gates on HN
| SLWW wrote:
| thanks for the laugh! :) <3
| [deleted]
| bee_rider wrote:
| For me, it will happily fit into L3 cache and it isn't very
| close to fitting into L2, so I guess it is fine.
| exabrial wrote:
| Can we run this locally and _not_ on the cloud?
| freeqaz wrote:
| I'm pretty sure it's Open Source here:
| https://github.com/Linen-dev/linen.dev
| cassianoleal wrote:
| Yeah but there are no instructions on how to deploy and
| operate. No user docs whatsoever that I could find, either on
| their website or on Github.
| asar wrote:
| I think linen definitely solves a lot of issues OSS communities
| face when the majority of issues are answered on discord/slack.
| The need for such a tool should decrease as docs mature however.
| So maybe a tool to integrate with or update the docs could be
| cool.
|
| On a general note I think you should link back to your landing
| page from the navigation of a project. Especially if people enter
| via a search engine, they are essentially locked within an
| organization. The only way out is to manually navigate to
| linen.dev.
| robot wrote:
| show me the demo
| otterley wrote:
| Feature request: Can we get sign-in with Apple, please? It's the
| only single-click auth integration I trust for privacy.
| Manjuuu wrote:
| The size is only one of the factors, it can be small but slow,
| especially when the history grows.
| cheeseblubber wrote:
| Definitely. This is why we also do things like optimistic
| updates, setting query performance alerts, and when possible
| reducing as much DOM elements.
| KMnO4 wrote:
| I agree.
|
| while(1) malloc(1000);
|
| Is only 0.02kb and will bring your computer to a crawl.
| connordoner wrote:
| This made me giggle more than it should have.
| einpoklum wrote:
| 500 KB + Tens of millions of lines of code of a browser + a bunch
| of backend code.
|
| Want a lean Slack alternative? Use IRC. Want a fancy Slack
| alternative? Use Matrix.
| oblio wrote:
| I don't want to host a server and I want my messages to be
| synced between multiple devices including mobile ones.
|
| I want rich messages, images, links.
|
| I want threads.
| einpoklum wrote:
| > I don't want to host a server
|
| Given that we're talking about search-engine-visible logs -
| just use an existing, public server.
|
| > I want my messages to be synced between multiple devices
| including mobile ones.
|
| I actually believe it's better for people _not_ to have Slack
| on their mobile, so as not to be pestered, but if that's what
| you want, then you want the "fancy" alternative. Matrix
| clients can offer you that.
|
| > I want rich messages, images, links.
|
| So, Matrix.
|
| > I want threads.
|
| If that's the case, maybe what you really want is a Discourse
| web-forum rather than Slack.
| nottorp wrote:
| > I want threads.
|
| Anyone has usable threads yet? For the life of me I can't
| follow Slack threads.
| doodlesdev wrote:
| What about a Google-searchable alternative to any of these? I
| think this would be one of the main selling points of Linen.
| einpoklum wrote:
| I believe several (most?) IRC servers support logging channel
| transcripts; and those can be easily made web-accessible. If
| you're not running the IRC server, you can use a logging bot
| to do that.
|
| See discussion 7 years ago on serverfault.com, and the links
| therein:
|
| How to set up a IRC server that logs all messages?
| https://serverfault.com/q/190069/113898
|
| How to Offer Searchable IRC logs?
| https://serverfault.com/q/36886/113898
|
| The bot option should be valid for Matrix as well, although
| there I'm not sure the bot world is well-enough developed to
| be 100% sure that a bot exist for every common desire like
| saving channel logs.
| zimpenfish wrote:
| There's also Mattermost which seems a reasonable Slack
| alternative (and self-hostable.)
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| I highly recommend front end devs add a step to their CI pipeline
| which extracts bundle size information from the build and
| includes it in pull requests, or something similar. It's great to
| have eyes on how heavy your bundle is, and keeping an eye on how
| it changes over time (easy to add as part of the pipeline) can
| help the team understand when things are trending the right way
| or not.
|
| It's usually a call you need to make based on what you're
| shipping, but at the very least, it'll ensure you don't blow up
| your performance because something slipped by.
|
| Finally, looking at the components of your bundle if you haven't
| already is well worth it. Like the people over at Linen noticed,
| they were shipping a ton of icons they were never using. This is
| happening all over the internet, and it's a real drag on the
| network, parsing, and executing phases in a browser. If you
| benchmark, you'll see significant differences when you trim
| things back.
|
| If you have customers using lower powered devices, this is even
| more crucial.
| cahoot_bird wrote:
| It always seemed to me the basics of a messenger app would be the
| easy part to be accomplished. It's the marketing that would be
| hard seeing as there are already existing solutions such as Slack
| and Discord.
| [deleted]
| what-no-tests wrote:
| Wow I was thinking "slackware" and was amazed it would be only
| 500kb.
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