[HN Gopher] DJI Mavic 3 Pro
___________________________________________________________________
DJI Mavic 3 Pro
Author : notmysql_
Score : 71 points
Date : 2023-04-26 15:06 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.dji.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.dji.com)
| wand3r wrote:
| Every device manufacturer tends to fib a bit on battery life vs.
| real world, however, 45 mins of flight time is impressive. Even
| if its 30-35 mins fully maxed out that can give you a lot of time
| to creat content and explore
| icholy wrote:
| I find that DJI fibs about their transmission range, but not
| battery life.
| sammyteee wrote:
| tbh, once you realise you can get in into FCC mode, the
| advertised distances become a lot more realistic... :)
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| I agree. I get fairly bad range in my small city, even with
| line of site. I get serious lag at around 2km. In places with
| less interference, it only bumps up to around 2.75-3km. It's
| advertised as having 10-15km range or something.
|
| On the other hand, 3 batteries in a Mini 3 is pretty much
| guaranteed to keep it in the air for 90 minutes. It's very
| impressive. Our custom quad manages more like 20m with twice
| the battery capacity (though, twice the weight as well).
| nine_k wrote:
| Tangentially: I wonder if a really long-flying quad copter can
| be made using a regular ICE + generator as a source of
| electricity. Carbohydrates are still more energy-dense.
| BizarroLand wrote:
| I assume the issue is not the energy density but the support
| density.
|
| I have a 3DR Solo and it can carry up to 1 lb of extra weight
| for 20 minutes or so on a full charge, and run for 30ish
| minutes while only carrying its gimbal.
|
| The battery in the 3DR Solo weighs about 1.3 lbs itself, and
| the frame is by no means lightweight. Assembled it weighs at
| least 70% more than the Mavic 2 Pro that I occasionally get
| to use at work.
|
| To fly my drone, the 3dr solo draws an average of 14.2 volts
| at 15 amps (so close to 200 watts on average) but up to 800
| watts at peak.
|
| You would need an ICE and Generator combo that can put out an
| average 200 watts of constant power but that can peak at 800
| for short periods that weighs less than 2.3 lbs including
| fuel that runs for more than 20 minutes to equal that 1
| battery.
|
| For instance, this is one of the most well known and light RC
| ICE machines:
|
| http://www.mecoa.com/hp/vt/21.htm
|
| It weighs 9.5 oz and runs for 45 minutes on 6 oz of diesel
| (probably not at maximum output, but still.)
|
| So you're at roughly 1 lb (assuming 1/2 oz of screws and
| tubes to connect the motor to the fuel and both to the frame.
|
| However, there is an issue here. This motor is rated at .35
| hp. 1 hp is roughly 746 watts of power. That means max rev,
| full bore, this 1 ICE only has enough power before conversion
| losses to hover my 3dr solo in calm winds.
|
| So, let's find a bigger motor.
|
| https://hobbyking.com/en_us/ngh-gt17-17cc-gas-engine-with-
| rc...
|
| This one is much better. 1.8 hp at max revs, so 1300+ watts.
| But, it weighs 1.87 lbs.
|
| Add in fuel and you're at the max, so good to go, right?
|
| Well, the next problem is that even though we have an engine,
| we don't have a generator to convert from fuel to electric.
|
| You would also need some supercapacitors or batteries to
| store the charge, some system to integrate the control of the
| motor into the drone, more mounting materials.
|
| And, you are already over the weight limit. That doesn't mean
| it can't be solved, for instance you could use a hexacopter
| or octocopter to increase how much carrying capacity you
| have.
|
| Basically, you can do it, but there are better ways to do it.
| You would have to design an ICE RC Drone from scratch
| accounting for all of the intricacies and difficulties of
| using combustion engines in a drone and controlling them
| safely just to get what will probably be a slower, more
| expensive and more fragile drone that breaks down more often
| and needs frequent servicing intervals.
| nine_k wrote:
| I see. Likely this setup could work on a larger copter, but
| won't work on a tiny device.
|
| Makes sense; thanks for the details.
| andruby wrote:
| A hybrid helicopter with 4 blades? There's a lower limit for
| weight to fit the ICE (we can't scale an ICE down much), so
| it might end up pretty close to a smallish helicopter
| nine_k wrote:
| I remember two-stroke ICEs for model planes that
| comfortably set on the palm of my hand, not even being a
| teenager.
|
| A can of fuel possibly takes more space than a battery, but
| likely weighs less anyway.
|
| Say, this randomly found guy is pretty tiny:
| https://www.horizonhobby.com/product/15la-
| abn-.15-airplane-g...
| tonyarkles wrote:
| The trick with the tiny little model aircraft engines is
| that you typically get a decent lift/drag efficiency
| multiplier with fixed wing vs. quadrotor. In my
| experience, there seems to be a somewhat scale invariant
| power requirement of ~200W/kg (applies to a 249g Mavic
| Mini and much larger 25kg units). For a fixed-wing, you
| can get a 5:1 or 10:1 L/D and get away with more like
| 20-40W/kg instead.
|
| You also probably don't want to direct-drive a multirotor
| off of the gas motor but rather convert it to electricity
| so that you maintain the rapid control authority on the
| motors. There are companies that make suitable
| powerplants, e.g. https://www.pegasusaero.ca/hybrid-
| advantage
| NegativeLatency wrote:
| Maybe but it becomes a lot less practical to store and manage
| the gas compared to batteries.
|
| I suspect we'll see tailsitter models come out eventually
| that combine the benefits of fixed wing aircraft.
|
| Someone did make one with a lawnmower but it has death
| machine vibes:
|
| https://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/gas-powered-
| quadcopter-...
| causality0 wrote:
| I'll probably keep my Mini 2 until someone has the semi-legal
| cojones to put a 4G transceiver in a drone. Now that would be
| some great fun.
| Ancapistani wrote:
| It's done in the long range FPV community. Not super common -
| it's expensive, and you aren't allowed to fly farther than you
| can see the drone (and safely fly it by sight alone, and
| monitor the airspace around it) but it's done.
|
| I've not specifically kept up with the long range community,
| but I want to say I've recently seen videos of test flights out
| to 100km using an independent radio link (i.e., 5.8GHz analog
| video + 9xx MHz control link).
|
| That said, power density is going to be your first limiting
| factor. You're either going to have to seriously tune your
| airframe for long-range flight (and greatly compromise
| performance), or you're going to have to move to a fixed-wing
| design.
|
| Multirotors must maintain thrust (and therefore, expend power)
| to provide lift; fixed-wing designs provide lift as long as
| they are moving forward. The flight time of a fixed-wing design
| that's light enough and has a long enough glide profile is
| unlimited in practice. You can catch thermals and updrafts to
| gain speed, altitude, or both.
|
| I have a 1m foam glider that I've flown for well over an hour.
| The vast majority of that time was with the motor turned
| completely off and the prop folded flat against the fuselage.
| I'd soar out over the field where I was flying. There was a
| creek at the edge of the field and a small hill on the other
| side of it, creating a "barrel" of air. Flying in low, I'd
| catch the bottom of that current, ride it up the hill side,
| then pick up speed as I crested the hill and gently turned back
| toward the field. That particular location is great on chilly
| spring and fall mornings, because the temperature gradient
| between the creek and wind coming over the hillside is so
| great.
| oh_sigh wrote:
| Why? The range is like 9 miles so it is hard to get the device
| out of range of the radio on the battery charge.
| trollied wrote:
| The active tracking is very impressive (see this review, 10 mins
| in): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejmGSZtLu6I The way it flies
| sideways & dodges obstacles, even while the person is running all
| over the place, is awesome.
| 0xfedbee wrote:
| They don't have to copy Apple's website style to sell products.
| amelius wrote:
| I don't like that the propellers don't have guard rings around
| them.
| Ancapistani wrote:
| They make them, they just aren't standard equipment. They also
| reduce flight time and agility, and in come cases can interfere
| with your field of view.
|
| I've got hundreds of hours flying quadcopters at this point,
| and the only times I've ever wanted prop guards on a photo
| drone have been for flying indoors or very near hot air
| balloons.
| amelius wrote:
| And you took the risk of flying without guards?
|
| If yes -> This is why they should be there by default.
| Tepix wrote:
| Awesome new cameras, but how do you land these things safely on a
| sailboat? It's always tricky and scary.
| yreg wrote:
| I once did this and it was rather scary.
|
| I was sailing in Croatia (on sails) and we've spotted some
| dolphins. So I launched a Mavic Air to observe them from
| closer. Soon the wind picked up and so did the waves. I piloted
| the drone back to the boat and planned to catch it in my hand,
| but I haven't felt comfortable doing so, since the boat moved
| like crazy, while the drone was static in the air. Don't forget
| to imagine the million ropes and wires in the air, which is
| just the reality of being on a sailboat. Wind howling, captain
| shouting orders, drone's proximity and low battery alarms
| loudly screaming.
|
| I had to do something, so I hovered above the bow net and
| killed the motors. It fell into the net and didn't damage its
| propellers/gimbal.
|
| edit: 2.5MB dolphin video: https://files.catbox.moe/98n85f.mp4
| eimrine wrote:
| How the motors were killed? Were they melted their coils or
| was anything cracked?
| privong wrote:
| I think they mean that they turned off the motors to let
| the drone drop into the net.
| palotasb wrote:
| He means he stopped the motors to let the drone free-fall
| into the net.
| vetinari wrote:
| Put the left stick down right (4-5 o'clock) and the right
| stick down left (7-8 o'clock). It will turn off the motors
| instantly.
| yreg wrote:
| Yes this is what I did. Good thing to know, by the way.
| Since you don't need it unless you need it, and then when
| you need it you absolutely don't have the time to look it
| up.
| vetinari wrote:
| This command ("Combination Stick Command") is also useful
| in other situations: the same command can both start and
| stop the motors. It is exactly what you are going to use
| when launching and landing in your hand; once you are
| holding the drone in your hand, and you want to start or
| stop.
|
| But now: how are you going to do it, when you are holding
| the drone in one hand, remote in another and do a command
| with both sticks? Don't you need a third hand for that?
| The answer is no. You need a lanyard for your remote.
| That way, you can use one hand for holding the drone and
| the other for pushing the sticks.
| Ancapistani wrote:
| Short answer - you don't.
|
| I've flown from boats a handful of times, and it's stressful.
| When I started, I would ask them to keep the boat as still as
| possible, hover next to the boat, then slowly move over to me
| so I could reach it. Grab it from underneath and flip it over
| to kill the motors.
|
| That's obviously not safe, and it's not hard to find photos in
| drone groups of people's hands after a failed attempt to do
| exactly this. It's not pretty.
|
| After that I came across an old indoor practice goal for soccer
| players - basically a net on a stand. I modified it to lay flat
| and started using it. I'd get the quad close to the boat, hover
| a couple of feet over the net, and kill the motors. It worked,
| but felt like I was risking my quad dropping into the ocean
| every time I did it.
|
| These days I've gone back to hand-catching, but with a vertical
| grip that I mounted under the aircraft. I 3D printed a
| "harness" of sorts that fits around the fuselage and has a
| Picatinny rail on the bottom (like on a rifle). I picked up a
| cheap vertical grip designed for a gun that I can quickly mount
| on the rail - it extends ~6" below and gives me something to
| grab without being on the same plane as the props. It works
| well enough, but isn't perfect. It would interfere with the
| field of view on something with a 360o camera gimbal (like an
| Inspire), and has a significant impact on flight time and
| performance even though I did all I could to reduce the weight.
| andy_ppp wrote:
| They really should allow auto updating of the Home location,
| however if you're moving while landing getting that right is
| probably quite difficult.
| ben7799 wrote:
| You can update the home point and have been able to for a
| long time. And this is zero concern if you're good at manual
| landing. I've never really ever used their RTH feature the
| entire time I've been flying, my experience goes back to well
| before R/C aircraft had any RTH or landing assist.
|
| It's more that you just have to remember to update the home
| point, and if you don't the drone will suddenly fly off far
| way out to open water, and if you're not playing it safe you
| could then run out of battery before you can fly back.
|
| This stuff is annoying, but anyone being responsible and
| making sure they budget plenty of reserve power ends up being
| fine.
| [deleted]
| Ancapistani wrote:
| You can, for both DJI and Autel (the largest commercial
| manufacturers). There is similar functionality for the
| homebrew flight controller firmwares out there (e.g.
| iNav/ArduPilot).
|
| I'm most familiar with Autel's system, since that's what I
| fly 99% of the time. It has the option to update your home
| point, but it also has two modes: RTH to takeoff point, and
| RTH to the controller.
|
| RTH = "Return To Home"
|
| The problem with all of the above is the "failsafe". If the
| quad loses connection to the controller, by default it will
| return to the takeoff point and land. You can set it up to
| RTH to either the the takeoff point or the last known
| position of the controller, then land or hover until
| connection is re-established.
|
| On a boat, you're constantly moving. If you lose connection,
| the drone immediately loses the current position of the
| controller, so you have to turn the boat around, manually
| find the drone, and cross your fingers that you're able to
| reconnect to it before the batteries die and it descends into
| a nice, slow, controlled landing in the middle of the ocean.
|
| Identifying alternate safe landing sites before taking off is
| part of the pre-flight checklist for any flight, but it's
| especially important when operating over water. Doubly so if
| you're taking off from a boat. Whenever possible, I make sure
| to end my flights with enough battery that I can make it back
| to land if I have to. I've planned to use (inactive) oil
| platforms in the Gulf of Mexico in an emergency. I have no
| idea how I would have gotten ahold of the owners and gotten
| access to it to retrieve my drone if I'd had to use it, but
| I'd rather work out those details later than lose it or be
| forced to ditch it in the water.
| ben7799 wrote:
| I've done it on a motorboat and that's freaky enough.
|
| At least with my DJI the "home point" is the trick. As the boat
| moves you move, but the home point is/was fixed at a GPS
| location, not a radio location.
|
| So you have to stay on top of updating the home point (which
| requires menu digging) or the drone eventually freaks out and
| tries to fly away back to where the boat's route started, which
| could be a great way to lose the drone.
|
| In the end for me the DJI's level of software nanny plus
| sketchy china issues have kind of sealed the deal that next
| time I won't buy a DJI. There are a lot of places that I can
| legally fly in a responsible manner that DJI's nanny software
| basically stops or makes extremely inconvenient. On top of
| places where a low altitude flight would be allowed and they
| completely block it, their "unlock" process in other warning
| type areas has been so buggy I've had many times I can't fly
| even though it's legal because their system isn't working
| right.
|
| Being able to completely disable RTH (maybe you can?) and or
| make the home point auto-update to the transmitter location
| instead of a fixed GPS location would be a lot better.
| Ancapistani wrote:
| > Being able to completely disable RTH (maybe you can?)
|
| I believe so.
|
| I've not flown a DJI "seriously" in a couple of years, but my
| Autels can be set to stop and hover at a given altitude if
| connection is lost. I'm pretty sure I remember DJI having the
| same option.
| croutonwagon wrote:
| This guy had some good tips. Not sure if its this video or
| another. But i saw it in a youtube rabbit hole a while back>
|
| One of the tips is to turn off RTH though.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MsDUQjn9Bk
|
| Funny enough I was telling my buddy about the video. And he
| mentioned he had some youtuber go fishing with him and bragging
| about some drone he had. He didnt turn off RTH and it went in
| the drink when the batteries ran down.
| bigwheeler wrote:
| Practice makes perfect- I've launched and landed while sitting
| in a floating touring kayak at sea dozens of times with the
| Mini 3 Pro. I've only knicked myself once so far!
| bborud wrote:
| "Your Favorite Chinese multi-sensor distributed spying platform".
| fredsmith219 wrote:
| That's why I fly my Mavic Air:To take up PRC spy CPU time
| analyzing the really boring stuff I do. I'm doing my part.
| FpUser wrote:
| I am way more concerned about domestic spying. I would not give
| a rat's ass if DJI steals my pics and locations. I photograph
| what I consider pretty places and that's the extent. They can
| have it.
| nine_k wrote:
| Why would a drone have any internet access? It may want it, but
| should not _need_ it, nor given it.
| 1024core wrote:
| It needs it to make sure it follows any local flight
| restrictions, like no-fly zones.
| FpUser wrote:
| My drone stayed without connection for more than a year
| already. Sure it politely says at startup that said zones
| need an update but other than that keeps functioning
| without a hitch.
| Ancapistani wrote:
| 1) Other manufacturers don't have restrictive geofencing
| like DJI - it's not a regulatory issue, but liability.
|
| 2) DJI's flight restrictions are determined by DJI, not the
| FAA. They don't align with each other, so you end up having
| to keep track of and comply with _two_ airspace systems.
|
| That's why I abandoned DJI for my business use. I wasn't
| able to take off to cover an event at an airport for which
| I had FAA approval. DJI gave their approval... but the code
| didn't work, and it required that I have Internet access on
| the phone I was using to fly to boot.
| atourgates wrote:
| This has been incredibly frustrating for me.
|
| DJI arguably makes the best consumer drones - and as a
| platform I love my Mini Pro 3. It's small and light
| enough to easily put in a pack, easy to fly, and just
| works well apart from DJI's geofencing system.
|
| HOWEVER - I'm heavily restricted from using it at my own
| property, not because of the FAA or any other government
| restrictions, but because of DJI.
|
| I live about 10-miles from an airport. Per the FAA's on
| "B4UFLY" app - my rural property is clear of any
| restrictions, outside of the altitude restricted zone of
| the airport. However, DJI draws their own "FlySafe Geo"
| map differently, and places me in an altitude zone where
| I'm limited to 150-meters.
|
| This wouldn't be so bad, except that I live next to a
| large hill/small mountain, that's a great place to fly
| over and take photographs.
|
| If I were to go to the top of the mountain (also in DJI's
| altitude restricted area) and take off, I could fly out
| 150m from the top of the mountain, no issues. But since
| DJI takes no note of the ground height changing as you
| fly, if I take off from my property and try to fly my
| drone to the top of the mountain, I'd crash into its side
| long before I got there.
|
| There's really no solution to this issue, besides hoping
| that someone creates a hacked firmware for my drone that
| ignores DJI's restrictions, like they have for other DJI
| models.
|
| If another manufacturer developed a comparable drone that
| didn't suffer from DJI's restrictions, I'd buy it in a
| second.
| e12e wrote:
| AFAIK in Norway (all of EU?) you need Internet in order
| to fly close (regulated, not closed, airspace) to an
| airport - the drone self-reports position and id to air
| traffic control, so they don't show up as unidentified
| blip on their radar.
|
| In my home town basically the entire air space is
| regulated due to the location of the airport/flight
| paths.
| Teever wrote:
| Do you have any idea if there are jailbreaks for these things
| or alternate firmwares?
| Ancapistani wrote:
| There are. They tend to lag a little bit when a new model
| comes out, but AFAIK everything is eventually unlocked.
| andy_ppp wrote:
| I doubt they care much about you taking some videos on holiday!
| Probably don't use it to fly over military sites and there is
| zero risk.
|
| I worry that some of the worlds great companies get caught in
| the power wars of the US and China. Both countries working
| together has been so good for the world - nobody will be as
| prosperous without the other - but who cares as long as the
| powerful people in the US and China get to maintain or increase
| their power.
| mint2 wrote:
| With the apps the issue isn't the ability of China to harvest
| data on someone at a kids sports events or what not or what
| basketball team they like.
|
| The issue is that for example with TikTok the American
| citizen/national with relatives has been watching videos on
| <sensitive topic> and now their relative back in China had a
| visit from the authorities, or this info gained from the app
| on this politician or journalists or their family could be
| used for leverage, or a number of scenarios like that.
|
| The chinese authorities already illegally sets up "police"
| stations abroad in various countries. The authorities already
| do apply pressure to relatives still in China.
| cypherpunks01 wrote:
| When will these compact drones become less noisy? I know there
| are new propeller designs being researched to be much less like a
| swarm of bees is flying around near you, but don't know how far
| off they are to retail commercialization. It just makes it hard
| to stomach flying a drone in a pristine environment knowing you
| are disturbing all human and non-human animals nearby.
| 0_____0 wrote:
| To some degree it's inescapable with the small props. The
| higher end DJI models have enormous props which are better for
| noise as well as endurance. 16" props on the Inspire 3.
|
| The natural extent of this progression is to have one or two
| very large 2-4 blade rotor (for low disc loading, high
| endurance, lower rotor speed and noise), with a small auxiliary
| rotor for yaw control if only using one lift rotor.
|
| Yes, the natural endpoint is in fact just a helicopter. Only
| reason we don't see more of that (edit: in photo drones
| specifically) is the mechanical complexity.
| Ancapistani wrote:
| I've not actually measured the volume of various props - I
| can, and should! - but based on my memory I don't think it's
| quite as simple as "smaller props make more noise".
|
| For FPV stuff, I've flown everything from 25mm to 9" (prop
| size). The ones that seemed quietest were 2.5"-3", very
| light, and designed for performance.
|
| I think it has to do with the pitch of the noise and the
| "idle point" of your motors.
|
| Smaller props turn faster, and the faster they're turning the
| higher the pitch of the noise they produce. At some point it
| borders on inaudible. Even if it's technically producing more
| decibels (It might be! I've not tested that.), it isn't as
| disruptive. Larger props turn slower, producing less noise
| and at a lower pitch.
|
| "Idle point" is what I'm calling how much throttle you have
| to give it to hover. For my favorite 5" freestyle FPV quad,
| that's 18% (+/- 2% depending on temperature and humidity).
| It's acceptably quiet if I'm just hovering or slowly moving
| around, but sounds like an angry weedeater if I'm flying
| aggressively. The idle point for my 2.5"-3" quads is probably
| around 25%; my 7" long range build is 12%.
|
| The more throttle you give it, the faster the props spin, the
| louder and higher pitched it is.
| jml7c5 wrote:
| Zipline is using a rather strange propeller design that is
| apparently effective:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOWDNBu9DkU&t=831s
| 404mm wrote:
| I saw that! I'm sure they will patent it and consumers will
| be stuck with more traditional designs. Sigh, the patent law
| really needs a refresh, considering how rapid research and
| market response became.
| is_true wrote:
| Do patents work when competing with a chinese company?
| 404mm wrote:
| Lol! I suppose they work if that Chinese company wants to
| sell in the US.
| imiric wrote:
| Exactly. All this focus on improved image quality, battery life
| and whatnot, but no mention about noise levels, or even R&D
| into the area.
|
| Currently, only the video is usable from drone footage, which
| is a huge limitation. All drone footage either has music or an
| audio track from an external source overlaid on top of it.
|
| I wonder if the propeller and wind noise could be cancelled or
| removed with some fancy algorithms. It wouldn't eliminate the
| produced noise, but it would at least make the audio track
| usable.
| pphysch wrote:
| > Currently, only the video is usable from drone footage,
| which is a huge limitation.
|
| For what use cases? Outdoor concerts? The acoustics at 100ft
| in the air are unlikely to be great anyways.
|
| I wouldn't call it a huge limitation.
| dron57 wrote:
| I just want to watch Ukranian drone videos with glorious
| full sound Russian explosions without the annoying Ukranian
| techno.
| [deleted]
| Ancapistani wrote:
| I've used on-board audio a few times, but it's rough.
|
| The only case that comes to mind where it was really
| successful IMO is if you're using an FPV quad to chase a
| vehicle: race cars, dirt bikes, monster trucks, etc. All of
| those things are loud enough that they're clearly audible
| over the prop and wind noise. If anything, for dynamic
| chase footage, the sound of the quad's motors spinning up
| adds interest.
|
| Otherwise, you're not going to hear anything worthwhile
| from the air.
| FpUser wrote:
| Few deer I saw did not seem to care at all about the drone.
| Neither have raccoons, beavers, squirrels, chipmunks and birds.
| jamies wrote:
| Cool, yeah, just fly your drone next to wildlife and claim
| they don't mind.
| jmspring wrote:
| Living in a rural area with a lot of deer and other nature,
| they are one consideration.
| FpUser wrote:
| Save the drama, they literally hang out in my backyard (well
| except beavers) but add foxes and rabbits
| tristanb wrote:
| If i'm in nature and i hear a drone, its annoying AF, and it
| just makes me want to throw rocks at it.
| FpUser wrote:
| I hear loud music from drunk campers on the lakes way more
| often than I hear drones.
| blululu wrote:
| This strikes me as a rather callous lack of empathy.
| Personally, I find the mosquito whine of drones to be really
| annoying - especially when I am trying to enjoy the peace and
| serenity of a natural environment. There is nothing more
| obnoxious than going surfing only to have some creep buzz you
| with a drone. It's really intrusive and the sound is plain
| just obnoxious. I'm trying to enjoy the ocean like people
| have done for eons and someone else can't seem to enjoy it
| without flying a high pitched squealing camera over my head?
| It's a shame too because as a camera enthusiast I would love
| to be able to take shots like the ones DJI features on its
| website. They are spectacular views. But the obtrusive
| rudeness of the technology is the one thing holding me back.
| thinkmassive wrote:
| I hear ya, but to your point about "some creep buzzing
| you," at least you're aware of it for now.
|
| A silent drone could be much creepier...
| Ancapistani wrote:
| Are you in a relatively urban area?
|
| In my experience, a wild deer can hear a photography
| quadcopter from ~200' away. They "spook" if I approach closer
| than ~150'.
| FpUser wrote:
| There is a farm I regularly pass on my bicycle and closer
| to the end of the summer they have boatload of deer coming
| in an wandering on the field. I have zero clue what they do
| on that field. Anyways those pay zero attention to my drone
| and go about their business whatever that is.
| bityard wrote:
| Geese definitely do not like drones.
| pwatsonwailes wrote:
| There's some interesting research around toroidal propellers
| which move the same amount of air, but create far less
| turbulence and so make a less annoying noise. However, they're
| not going to get significantly quieter until the energy density
| of the batteries gets significantly better (a lot of what
| you're moving with a drone is your energy storage).
|
| There's always a hope that someone might invent a really silent
| propellor, and there's some funky stuff you can do there with
| trailing edge profiles, but I don't think we'll see a huge leap
| beyond toroidals for a while.
| jcims wrote:
| Zipline has built an interesting asymmetric design that's
| remarkably quiet. Mark Rober featured it in one of his recent
| videos.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOWDNBu9DkU&t=831s
| pwatsonwailes wrote:
| It does a similar sort of thing - asymmetric offset
| propellors shunt the frequency of what gets emitted way
| down. It still emits a similar amount of energy, but the
| direction of emission changes, and with the lower
| frequency, there's a lower perceived sound. Toroidal props
| actually have less sound coming off them, and at a lower
| frequency. I've got some ideas about how you'd potentially
| then have a greater spread of frequency by creating an
| offset toroidal, but I suspect the efficiency goes down,
| and I've got better things to do with my time than model
| sound profiles of weird, hard to manufacture (other than
| printing) prop geometries.
|
| Related note - the offset bit is similar to how car tyres
| work by having patterns in the tyre which spread the
| frequency response generated by each, so they don't have a
| multiplicative effect.
|
| (I can get really boring on applications of acoustic design
| but I'll cut off there)
| robotguy wrote:
| >I can get really boring on applications of acoustic
| design
|
| I found that fascinating. TIL about the car tire noise.
|
| I think you've got the right kind of audience here.
| jcims wrote:
| 100%
| yreg wrote:
| Would love to get a new shiny thing, but it's difficult to excuse
| since my 5 year old Mavic Air still works very well and feels
| amazing.
|
| If you are looking into getting a (no-DIY) drone, consider a
| second-hand Mavic, they are cheap and great. Maybe get a new
| battery or two.
| trollied wrote:
| I agree. They are great fun to fly, and also very beginner
| friendly.
| Ancapistani wrote:
| I fly an Autel Evo 2 Pro, and love it - but I still recommend
| people new to drones pick up a used DJI Mavic Mini (or Mini2)
| when just getting into aerial photography. You can pick them up
| barely used, with three batteries, charger, and carrying case
| for ~$250 if you shop around.
|
| I've had five of the things at this point. I keep buying them
| when I find them cheap, and passing them on to people who are
| entering the hobby/field. It's always a good idea to have a
| backup when I'm working a job, and the Mini series is small and
| light enough that I can throw it in my camera bag even when I'm
| not planning on flying.
| coolspot wrote:
| Don't recommend Mini 1 which is wi-fi with a very bad range
| especially in city. Mini 2 is OcuSync with theoretical range
| of 10km (7mi) FCC.
| eimrine wrote:
| Ukrainians need this for their counteroffencive. They name Mavic
| 2 as their favourite drone.
| chasd00 wrote:
| is the primary use of drones in the Ukraine war for recon? I
| know they're also using them to drop grenades and fly into
| targets. I'm sure every military in the world is watching drone
| use very carefully. An FPV flying RPG warhead in a dense urban
| environment sounds like an absolute nightmare to defend
| against.
| drcongo wrote:
| Never found the idea of owning a drone appealing before, but this
| thing does look pretty great.
| Ancapistani wrote:
| Start with a used Mavic Mini. Seriously.
|
| They're like $200, and will teach you what you want in a drone.
| That way, when you go to spend real money on one, you'll be
| able to make an informed decision.
|
| If you can't spare the $200, I'd argue you probably shouldn't
| be diving deep into this hobby. You certainly shouldn't be
| spending $3k on this one.
| coolspot wrote:
| Don't buy Mavic Mini 1 because it uses wi-fi for connection.
| Rather buy Mini 2 which uses OcuSync and provides 10km range.
| l33tman wrote:
| From a hacking perspective, DJI previously seemed to be pretty
| nice with SDKs etc allowing you to get the video feed, send
| controls to the drone etc. But from what I can see they stopped
| supporting this for most (commercial) drones from Mavic 3 and
| onwards... Anybody know otherwise?
|
| What I'd want is to be able to remote control it from any other
| device, it doesn't really matter if it's an Android/iOS app or
| running on linux/windows.
| gotschi_ wrote:
| One can vnc into the dji rc and control it from wherever you
| are.
|
| Problem is: the remote disables radios when connected to
| usb/power.
|
| So rooting the dji android (which the FCC hack does) is a must
| and then you only need to enable the radios.. only..
| phplovesong wrote:
| [flagged]
| canadiantim wrote:
| Use of the word orcs is incredibly unfortunate as it's clear
| you're just trying to dehumanize other people. I get why, but I
| don't think the ends justify the means.
| hem777 wrote:
| Are you or your people being, or have been, slaughtered by a
| fascist, barbaric military?
|
| If yes, I'm sorry and I understand your position. If not,
| gtfo.
| otabdeveloper4 wrote:
| Both sides use them for great effect in the same way.
| lofaszvanitt wrote:
| When will this be jailbreaked?
| seatac76 wrote:
| Does anyone have an authoritative source on what data DJI
| captures and relays to China?. I want to buy a drone but
| concerned about privacy.
| thinkmassive wrote:
| Have you considered Skydio instead?
| doodlesdev wrote:
| Honestly? Assume they collect everything, such as location, the
| pictures and videos taken (and not taken), flight paths (this
| one I know for sure), telemetry from the device and drone, etc.
| Even if they're not doing it now there's no reason they
| wouldn't in the future, they are basically a monopoly when it
| comes to consumer drones and they are in China, they don't give
| a ** about privacy.
|
| Ironically, I do recommend them, they simply are the only
| option in the market right now and all of their drones have
| something interesting to offer.
| Ancapistani wrote:
| If you have log sync turned on - which I think is the default
| - your entire flight path is sent to the cloud. There are
| also a number of thumbnails from the flight visible in the
| web app. They're very low resolution, but I don't know if
| that's all that's sent or if they're downscaling them server
| side.
| haunter wrote:
| There have been some audits including the full network capture
| with Wireshark
|
| https://www.precisionhawk.com/hubfs/Retest_DJI%20Cybersecuri...
|
| https://www.auvsi.org/sites/default/files/DHS%20report.pdf
|
| This is from the DOI, see from page 40
| https://web.archive.org/web/20190916135227/https://www.doi.g...
|
| >We did not detect any leakage of data to DJI servers with any
| of the apps. However, all three apps make a Domain Name
| System(DNS) request to the computer hosting the WiFi network to
| resolve the IP address of "www.dji.com" when they are first
| started. This DNS request goes to the router or a DNS server,
| and does not actually communicate with any DJI servers, but it
| does tell the app the IP address of DJI servers. The DJI Pilot
| Beta app follows this DNS request up with a ping to one ofthe
| DJI servers, and receives a ping response back. This ping is
| used by the app to check that the server is up and can receive
| messages. The ping does not contain any data, but the server
| could get the IP address of the tablet and the time the app was
| started (since that's when the ping is sent)
| RugnirViking wrote:
| I can't see the dang product in the first 5 seconds on the
| product page. Sure theres a dim shot of it folded if I scroll
| down (although its covered by popup consent forms), but I want to
| see the drone clearly without sitting through an artsy video.
| Something like the second and third picture on
| https://store.dji.com/dk/product/dji-mavic-3-pro?vid=137691
| showing it folded and unfolded are SO much better
| stoicjumbotron wrote:
| This and their latest Inspire 3 are truly a feat of engineering
| smlacy wrote:
| If only such a statement could be made about their horrible
| mobile apps needed to fly these drones.
| vetinari wrote:
| Use DJI RC/RC Pro. Still based on Android, but standalone
| device. DJI Fly is fine there.
| josefresco wrote:
| Speaking of that software I resurrected an old DJI drone for
| a family member and after takeoff the app prompted me with so
| many warnings/errors/updates/notifications that I crashed.
| Truly horrifying to see a drone drifting towards you (and
| others) while you're furiously tapping to close warnings.
| bgun wrote:
| This is because software development still doesn't and has
| never qualified as capital-E Engineering. If "software
| engineering" were held to any of the same kind of rigor and
| responsibility that applies to mechanical, civil, aerospace
| or nearly any other "Engineering" discipline, we might not be
| in the technological & sociopolitical hellscape we are in
| right now.
| passion__desire wrote:
| This just popped up in my feed.
|
| DJI MAVIC 3 PRO - THE GIFT OF FLYING | Cinematic Video
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cgcpfKt3g
| hintymad wrote:
| Spy drone or not, why can't US companies design and manufacture
| better products to compete with DJI?
| pjc50 wrote:
| There's a whole synergistic Shenzen ecosystem of companies, and
| the US is a very expensive place. Most of the people with the
| skills to do this are already working for either FAANG or the
| long tail of other US tech companies, not on something as
| comparatively low value as drones. The US is simply higher up
| the value curve for manufacturing.
| cultofmetatron wrote:
| we gutted most of our manufacturing and outsourced it to china
| decades ago. we Let our entire non military manufacturing
| industry die on the vine so there isn't much of a culture of
| supply chain left.
|
| blame harvard business school. The cumulative damage of their
| Alum to the american economy is astronomical
| hintymad wrote:
| > non military manufacturing industry die
|
| Without a booming civil manufacturing industry, how could our
| military industry stay competitive? There was a reason that a
| toilet for Airforce would cost north of $20K.
| ApolloFortyNine wrote:
| Meh, there's been fears of imports damaging the home
| country's manufacturing/economy for hundreds of years. It's
| why tariffs have existed for ages. If the government valued
| manufacturing at home, they've had the tools for years to
| make it happen.
|
| Of course, are citizens ready to pay more than double in some
| cases? Not sure.
| cultofmetatron wrote:
| > If the government valued manufacturing at home, they've
| had the tools for years to make it happen.
|
| agreed and thats why I emphasized _non military_
| manufacturing.
| vuln wrote:
| > If the government valued manufacturing at home, they've
| had the tools for years to make it happen
|
| Well as long as we are "green washing" everything
| manufacturing will never return to the US.
|
| Americans would rather offshore and pollute in other
| countries instead of attempting to manufacture in the US
| while be suffocated by regulations.
| Salgat wrote:
| Can we stop with this nonsense myth? The US is the second
| largest manufacturer in the world. Does manufacturing make up
| as large a share of our economy as it did in the past? No, of
| course not, that's a normal progression to a service economy,
| which is why the US is so wealthy.
| hintymad wrote:
| > The US is the second largest manufacturer in the world
|
| The US used to the largest. I was wondering if we should
| stay the largest, and most importantly the best. Case in
| point, the average age of workers in our shipyard was more
| than 55. The number of shipyards in the US has been
| decreasing over the years. I can see how that will help us
| innovate on and build better and cheaper ships, for
| military or not. Another data point, Intel can't compete
| with TSMC when it comes to manufacturing chips. Plus, if
| the so-called "low-end" manufacturing is gone, how could we
| possibly train the next generation of engineers? My
| assumption is engineering will be like writing software, a
| person who can only draw boxes will not be a good software
| engineer, and the person could not even learn draw boxes
| well without years of programming experience.
| zamnos wrote:
| Skydio seems to be doing just fine, though their customers are
| more companies that want security rather than consumers.
|
| I think what killed it is the FCC rules, which make it illegal
| to fly in a large number of places where it really shouldn't
| have to be. This severely limits the size of the market for a
| $1,000 gadget.
| bityard wrote:
| It's much more expensive to manufacture lots of stuff in the
| US, but clothing and electronics probably top the list. Most
| people aren't willing to pay 3x the cost of an equivalent item
| just for the warm-n-fuzzy "Made in USA" sticker on it. A few
| are, but most aren't.
| c_elegant wrote:
| DJI is a vertically-integrated beast with CCP ties; it won the
| monopolist position in 2015 against venture-backed 3D Robotics.
| Skydio, the largest US entity, really only exists as a
| protectionist hedge.
|
| Consumer products mean low prices, the opposite of what America
| does well.
| hintymad wrote:
| > Consumer products mean low prices, the opposite of what
| America does well.
|
| This is actually sad. Ford could drive down the cost of
| automobile down to $4000 while its workers could earn $5 an
| hour. America used to be the industrial behemoth what could
| manufacture and innovate better, faster, and cheaper. What's
| interesting is that there was a powerful country that would
| mock the US for producing things cheap but not necessarily
| crafty in late 19th century and early 20th century. Yeah,
| that was Britain. We all know how history went.
| e12e wrote:
| Arguably Prox Dynamics (now Flir) is able to compete in certain
| segments?
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hornet_Nano
|
| https://www.flir.eu/news-center/military/qa-flir-acquires-wo...
| rektide wrote:
| DJI seems to be the one company that requires sideloading the
| Android app. DJI makes great products, but there's really few
| companies who I would trust less to give unvetted access to my
| phone.
|
| I know the Android app sandboxing should help a lot, but there's
| enough unknowns & potentially lurking security holes that I
| really wouldn't want to trust them. They also are 100% the most
| likely company on the planet to self-update & start truly-epic-
| level spying on the world if China ever gets a little bit more
| nervous. It's just not a tenable proposition to trust DJI with
| this security stance; no one at the company has the power nor
| right to say no, & as such there's no basis for trust to form.
| yreg wrote:
| I get why people want the end of the App Store monopoly and I
| apprieciate the idea of being able to run anything I want on my
| hardware, but this here is the reason why I'm hesitant.
|
| As a user I want the big developers to have to bend the knee to
| Apple. I don't want to side load my DJI app, I don't want to
| download Instagram from the Meta store.
|
| I don't agree with all of Apple's rules (and also with the way
| the app revenue is split), but I'm mostly satisfied with them.
| archagon wrote:
| Then the future of computing will be in the hands of mega-
| corporations. Have an innovative app idea that goes against
| corporate policy? Too bad, won't happen.
|
| Strict sandboxing and a robust permissions model can still
| give you security with these kinds of apps.
| rektide wrote:
| It really bothers me that DJI is basically the one notable
| example that gives the anti-sideloading FUD-dites some
| ammunition. It's generally not a real issue, DJI are just
| extra punks, and yeah, sandboxing should offer really good
| protection in general, but maybe maybe your drone is live
| uploading all drone data to the CCP perhaps.
|
| Freedom enables choice. Humanity's greatness is built
| entirely off our ability to explore possibilities & create
| new ways. Gating innovation behind what Apple & all the
| governments permit us is just not an option for the most
| important most noospheric device on the planet. Not having
| choices is to let ourselves be chained up in the PKD Black
| Iron Prison. I refuse that dejection.
| yreg wrote:
| >Freedom enables choice.
|
| One could argue that also for the freedom to choose a
| curated platform. Android exists and prospers, I have a
| choice.
| rektide wrote:
| What happens when Android starts clamping down, as they
| have? Android ever more ratchets shit down, and more and
| more essential apps like Termux simply can't make it
| through the Google gauntlet. What happens if Android
| stops allowing sideloading?
|
| I hear this defense a lot from the anti-sideloaders, that
| it's fine that this platform have no freedom, because
| there's another popular platform with some freedom. Even
| with the DJI example here before us (which so far has
| been icky but had no known actual bad consequences), I
| roundly do not get the argument, do not see the appeal of
| being trapped, of arguing everyone else on this platform
| needs to be under the fist of Cook & every government on
| the planet & without feet to stand on.
|
| And it's repugnant to me that the defense is that there
| is one other platform where freedom exists, as if it's OK
| that one set of folks fall down the slippery slide &
| leave the rest of humanity tottering for themselves,
| trying to keep feet under them against perpetual
| universal software helplessness.
|
| Apple has basically been winning the AT&T position
| against Carterphone. They've used monopoly power to
| control push around dominate & extract, to make up
| whatever terms it wants for the world. That's a position
| that damned & binds humanity, and one we have rejected
| already quite clearly, but now that computers are
| involved it's free game to coral the humans & other
| entities & to rollback the Carterphone right to modify
| the world about you.
|
| There's one plan I'm OK with here, which is Apple can
| keep it's closed platform but has to let other OS run on
| iPhone & make equal use of the hardware. If apple demands
| control over iOS, I think that's an alternative out for
| hardware owners.
| yreg wrote:
| >There's one plan I'm OK with here, which is Apple can
| keep it's closed platform but has to let other OS run on
| iPhone & make equal use of the hardware.
|
| This is an interesting idea. It sounds pretty good
| actually.
| [deleted]
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| I'm in the same camp. I got my son a Mini 3, which is a stellar
| quadcopter in its own right, but the DJI ecosystem is a
| spectacle to behold for some good and many bad reasons.
|
| One issue could be that they don't communicate compatibility
| between devices very well, so it's very hard to know if buying
| one thing will lead to being very limited and locked in -- even
| within the DJI ecosystem. People often find themselves needing
| to buy more equipment to accomplish seemingly trivial things.
| For example, the controller we got can't install apps and it
| doesn't work with a multitude of other quads DJI sells. Why
| not? Are they good reasons or bad? Where can I find clear
| explanations? I'm sure the controller is very resource
| constrained, but can't I just opt into bad performance if I
| don't mind? Is the controller incompatible with other quads due
| to radio protocols, or is this a choice intended to force
| eventual upgrades?
|
| Without being able to tell with certainty, sometimes it begins
| to seem a little manufactured and nefarious.
|
| Otherwise, the fact that their protocols are all proprietary
| and I can't use the controller with custom quads is very
| frustrating. I have a Radio Master TX12 that I can't use with
| any DJI products, and a DJI controller I can't use with any
| custom quads already built or that I could ever build.
|
| That's all crazy. Sure, tight integration means better
| performance, but the extent to which it's closed off is unreal.
|
| Although the Mini 3 is a genuinely awesome device, I don't
| think I'll buy DJI again. I think I'd rather buy into open VTX
| hardware and use my own camera to record footage. It's a huge
| compromise in convenience and upfront cost, but if you care a
| lot about the hobby it's perhaps well worth it. The flexibility
| afforded is enormous.
| miohtama wrote:
| Is there any other reason to force sideloading except that
| China hates Google?
| capableweb wrote:
| - No need to deal with Google or the Play Store and
| everything that comes with, having to do reviews and all that
|
| - Faster deployments to actual devices. AFAIK, you could even
| implement self-updating if you're feeling brave
|
| - No sharing of data to Google and/or Play Store.
|
| - Basically everything that the Play Store is now allowed, as
| you set your own rules (besides local regulation).
|
| Basically, lots of goodies for developers and companies who
| want to skirt whatever safety Google has setup, with minor
| benefit to the users themselves.
| 1024core wrote:
| $2200 ... welp.
| Ancapistani wrote:
| Not out of line with comparable airframes.
|
| Here's what I fly: https://amzn.to/41F7wnL
|
| It's been out a while, but is roughly comparable in every way
| except the camera. The Autel camera has a slightly larger
| sensor, but only one lens: with the DJI you get a telephoto and
| medium telephoto lens as well. The DJI will also do Apple
| ProRes RAW output while the Autel doesn't.
|
| There are other differences, but I'd argue they're relatively
| minor, and mostly boil down to personal preference.
|
| Autel Evo 2 Pro v3: $2,500 DJI Mavic 3 Pro Cine: $2,999
| mtlynch wrote:
| I'm surprised the base price is only $2k.
|
| I have no experience with drones, but based on the video, I was
| expecting it to be like a $40k product.
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