[HN Gopher] The UK will spend PS100M to develop its own 'soverei...
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       The UK will spend PS100M to develop its own 'sovereign' AI
        
       Author : atlasunshrugged
       Score  : 66 points
       Date   : 2023-04-25 14:28 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.engadget.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.engadget.com)
        
       | corobo wrote:
       | The UK will give PS100M to an MP's spouse
       | 
       | Give it a few weeks and we'll find out which one I imagine
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | shaunxcode wrote:
         | capita
        
       | buro9 wrote:
       | They're 25 days late with this announcement, which is also about
       | right for the UK gov.
        
       | notahacker wrote:
       | 'Sovereign AI' does sound like a phrase that ChatGPT might come
       | up with if you asked it to make up an article about Brexit and
       | AI. Either ChatGPT or one of dozens of websites trying to be a
       | British version of the Onion...
        
       | SilverBirch wrote:
       | The key problem the UK is facing is that a load of good
       | investment ideas get announced and then proceed to spend decades
       | drowning in red tape. In order to overcome this you need to
       | announce some initiatives and then ensure over the next 5 years
       | that they really deliver. But we're 13 years in Tory rule and
       | there's going to be an election next year, so there's literally
       | no chance of this being a success. Even back in 2019 when the
       | levelling up stuff was happening it was like "Um, we're going to
       | show some results in 2030" and it's like... well, you're not
       | going to _be here_ in 2030, so it 's kind of academic, and the
       | stuff you started in 2010 that should be paying off now? You
       | massively cut capital spending so there _is_ no pay off now.
        
         | SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
         | > The key problem the UK is facing is that a load of good
         | investment ideas get announced and then proceed to spend
         | decades drowning in red tape.
         | 
         | You make it sound like the attempt is valiantly made, but "red
         | tape" is the sole reason that holds it back.
         | 
         | More often with this government, the announcement is the whole
         | thing, there's no desire to follow though or take action, just
         | get good headlines. And the mythical "red tape" is a scapegoat.
         | Standards, i.e. "more red tape" would e.g. have saved lives in
         | Grenfell tower.
        
         | kmlx wrote:
         | > The key problem the UK is facing is that a load of good
         | investment ideas get announced and then proceed to spend
         | decades drowning in red tape.
         | 
         | you just described most of the western world :)
        
           | permo-w wrote:
           | this is a narrative pushed for the sake of vested interests
           | who would rather these things be privately owned
           | 
           | democratic governments are perfectly capable of developing
           | new technologies and do so all the time. the issue is the
           | level of investment and public interest, not anything else
        
       | lhnz wrote:
       | It'd be more sensible to invest this money directly into Google
       | DeepMind, which already exists and is based in London.
        
         | hammyhavoc wrote:
         | It's just not "sovereign" enough.
        
           | cameronh90 wrote:
           | Well it is a subsidiary of an American company...
        
           | grumpymouse wrote:
           | I think the point is to avoid a situation like with Uber
           | (where investors subsidised Uber rides to try to destroy most
           | of the world's taxi industry, then replace with Uber and
           | gather all the profits for themselves).
           | 
           | It's going to suck for the world in general if AI models
           | destroy a lot of jobs but the productivity gains are all paid
           | to overseas companies like OpenAI and Microsoft.
        
       | shaftoe444 wrote:
       | GB-T
        
       | jonplackett wrote:
       | It will be a special Brexit AI trained only on all the positive
       | impacts of brexit.
       | 
       | Training will take approximately 3 nano seconds but probably
       | still cost most of the PS100 mil which will be spent only at
       | companies owned by Tory MPs friends and with no prior experience
       | in AI.
       | 
       | (Sorry, just trying to cheer myself up. It's a hard time to be
       | British at the moment)
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | Lmao, someone being scammed
        
       | tailspin2019 wrote:
       | Why do I get the feeling that this will just be PS100m poured
       | down the drain...
        
       | js8 wrote:
       | Good luck with that:
       | https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/britain-in-crisi...
        
         | kmlx wrote:
         | lots of issues with that article, but the most obvious one are
         | the graphs: OECD GDP data was misread and then they wrongly
         | applied CER's doppelganger model.
         | 
         | in reality UK GDP is about 6% higher than in Q2 16.
         | 
         | i don't know why they do this kind of sloppy reporting, but
         | they do have form. another priceless article about Germany
         | itself: https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/inflation-
         | bankr...
        
         | etiennebausson wrote:
         | Wow, that's a pretty depressing picture of the U.K. I know the
         | situation over there is quite bad, but this was more extreme
         | than what I expected.
        
         | bogle wrote:
         | "the country's representatives continue to put on a show of
         | democracy week after week" - Der Spiegel. In so many ways
         | (sigh).
        
       | version_five wrote:
       | Unless the UK is really good at managing this kind of spending,
       | it strikes me as something that will just blow a bunch of
       | government money on enriching people who like doing paperwork.
       | This is basically how all Canadian government spending is, is UK
       | better at it?
       | 
       | From a strategy perspective, I don't think it makes sense for
       | countries generally to waste time on their own foundation models.
       | There are lots of open source options, and almost no chance of a
       | government version besting the state of the art. And there's not
       | the barriers of say semiconductors or other manufacturing.
       | 
       | This is in some ways the classic trap of focusing on "AI" instead
       | of an actual application. This is what many businesses wasted
       | money on in 2016-2020, maybe now governments are doing the same?
        
         | RugnirViking wrote:
         | the UK gov has on occasion had good digital teams, for example
         | their web design team regularly posts articles on accessibilty
         | and design that end up on HN, and generally seem competent.
         | This being said, I'm not confident at all this will end up that
         | way
        
         | gumballindie wrote:
         | The money will end up with Infosys, Sunak's wife's father's
         | company. At least if they made quality software but even that's
         | questionable.
        
           | ElfinTrousers wrote:
           | Believe me, you don't have to make quality software to win a
           | major government software development contract.
        
             | version_five wrote:
             | In fact it will be impossible to deliver profitably if you
             | do. Government contracting is about complying with the
             | letter of whatever silly specification you've been given,
             | while being the low bid. (I don't think this is good
             | behavior, just the only viable one). Governments let the
             | perception of fairness and frugality ensure that neither is
             | achieved and that they only get crap.
        
               | ElfinTrousers wrote:
               | Tracks with my experience.
        
         | ZiiS wrote:
         | Yes the UK is world-class at ensuring this spending is 100%
         | wasted.
        
           | mr_00ff00 wrote:
           | Reminds me of the old Bismarck quote about Spain
           | 
           | "I am firmly convinced that Spain is the strongest country of
           | the world. Century after century trying to destroy herself
           | and still no success."
        
       | xg15 wrote:
       | Looking forward to watch the future panel discussions between the
       | communist Chinese AI, the libertarian American AI and the
       | monarchist British AI...
        
         | ElfinTrousers wrote:
         | ...that actually sounds like great entertainment.
        
       | _fat_santa wrote:
       | This is just so stupid. It's the classic case of some govt
       | official hearing a tech buzzword, then announcing that they will
       | be putting $X towards <some_buzzword> to further the goals of
       | <buzzword_1>, <buzzword_2>, diversity, equity and inclusion.
        
       | alexb_ wrote:
       | "Bruv, as an AI model, it would be quite unethical for me to
       | generate that for you until you show me your loicense. Mate, if
       | you paid your fee, you should have got it in the post."
        
         | TMWNN wrote:
         | _U WOT M8_
        
           | robertlagrant wrote:
           | The thing about Arsenal is, they always try to walk it in!
        
             | atlasunshrugged wrote:
             | IT Crowd, one of the best shows I've ever seen. That said,
             | the attempted American pilot was so cringey I had to stop
             | watching halfway through
             | 
             | https://archive.org/details/the-it-crowd-us-pilot
        
           | hammyhavoc wrote:
           | well sovverin innit
        
       | examplary_cable wrote:
       | GPT-GB
        
       | throwaway4good wrote:
       | If you scroll a bit further the next article is titled:
       | 
       | "The UK government won't make an NFT after all"
        
       | bartislartfast wrote:
       | HM-GPT
        
       | uniqueuid wrote:
       | So let's assume an (impossible) perfect efficiency of spending,
       | they can buy how many DGX with this? 100? 50? In any case, the
       | money's probably not even enough to be competitive in terms of
       | hardware, let alone anything else.
        
       | bvoq wrote:
       | Yet still only pays 50K for the head of information science at
       | the HMRC
        
       | kingstoned wrote:
       | Given how successful Quaero
       | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaero) was, I'm sure this will be
       | another major success from Europe.
        
         | bogle wrote:
         | The UK isn't 'Europe' anymore ...
        
           | Lio wrote:
           | Did we suddenly move to a different continent?
           | 
           | Hope the weather's better wherever we're going to. Probably
           | much, much hotter and sulphurous... :(
        
           | amadeuspagel wrote:
           | If only it was this easy.
        
           | naavis wrote:
           | Not part of the European Union no, but definitely part of
           | Europe as a geographical area. Unless you claim that Norway
           | isn't part of Europe either?
        
       | eunos wrote:
       | ChatGPT but with British spellings you mean
        
         | tonymillion wrote:
         | Pleasant Conversation with sarcastic undertones AI
        
       | fennecfoxy wrote:
       | Lmao 900mPS is not enough for hardware and development required
       | as well as running costs, not with the UK gov's glacial pace and
       | inability to move into the modern world. This is just a way to
       | funnel money out.
       | 
       | As a Kiwi living in the UK for like 6 years now, the Brits' worst
       | enemies are themselves; they're afraid of change, want everything
       | to stay the same like the good old days and so vote for the same
       | old idiots but complain when the leopards eat their face. Over
       | and over again.
       | 
       | History runs deep here and people hold onto things for far too
       | long. Then again, I did come to Europe for the rich history, I
       | just didn't think its inhabitants would be so bound by it.
        
         | dukeyukey wrote:
         | To be fair to the UK it's the third-largest tech market in the
         | world, after the continental-scale superstates of the US and
         | China.
        
           | unmole wrote:
           | > the third-largest tech market in the world
           | 
           | Do you have a link handy?
        
             | dukeyukey wrote:
             | Here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-tech-sector-
             | retains-1-...
             | 
             | The UK is also third for tech VC investment, but sometimes
             | even overtakes china: https://dealroom.co/guides/united-
             | kingdom
             | 
             | https://technation.io/news/uk-tech-q1-2022-investment-
             | update...
        
         | te_chris wrote:
         | I feel like we're the same person (8 years for me though). But
         | of course, this is by design and exactly how the most powerful
         | people here want it.
         | 
         | It's an endless struggle at the moment between love of our life
         | in London and feeling of the creeping death of the UK at its
         | own hands.
        
           | fakedang wrote:
           | I left the UK for exactly this reason. I love(d) London so
           | much before - it's the city where I started my career, as a
           | foreigner nonetheless, and it wholly adopted me as near equal
           | citizen with open arms. Plus, being an Indian, it's one of
           | the few places where I actually exercised my right to vote.
           | 
           | But visiting back today, the decline in the country in just a
           | span of a few years, it's simply unbearable to watch. The
           | country is simply on a decline, in spite of some of the
           | brightest minds in the EU and the world studying and working
           | there.
           | 
           | And London was supposed to be the city that dominated New
           | York around 10-20 years ago.
        
         | troad wrote:
         | > Then again, I did come to Europe for the rich history, I just
         | didn't think its inhabitants would be so bound by it.
         | 
         | Europe is run as a continent-sized retirement home, by
         | incompetent, hereditary elites who are utterly incapable of
         | grappling with the fact that having a history is not a
         | substitute for having an economy.
         | 
         | I feel for the people of Europe; they deserve better. So many
         | of the smart, lovely people you meet here are stuck on absurdly
         | low salaries in countries without any obvious future other than
         | managed decline. Instead of being offered a future, they're
         | offered endless relitigation of the past.
        
           | lawn wrote:
           | > I feel for the people of Europe; they deserve better. So
           | many of the smart, lovely people you meet here are stuck on
           | absurdly low salaries in countries without any obvious future
           | other than managed decline.
           | 
           | That's funny, because I feel similar for people in the US.
           | 
           | Sure, people in tech have high salaries, but then you have to
           | deal with the insane health care, idiotic prison system and
           | half the country supporting an openly fascist and lying
           | president (among other things).
        
             | troad wrote:
             | > an openly fascist and lying president (among other
             | things).
             | 
             | Oh, have Georgia Meloni, Victor Orban and Recep Erdogan
             | hopped over from Europe? Must have missed that.
        
               | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
               | Yeah this is the double standard here. Whenever US haters
               | on HN compare the US to Europe they only compares it to
               | France, Germany, Sweden, etc. to prove that the EU is a
               | better place to live, but forget that the EU also has
               | Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, etc.
        
               | libs_subhuman wrote:
               | [dead]
        
               | j-krieger wrote:
               | You don't really think Turkey or Hungary when you think
               | of Europe.
        
             | sideshowb wrote:
             | And longer hours and a lot less holiday.
        
           | courgette wrote:
           | I earn roughly 4 times in the US what I would earn in France.
           | Not a small difference.
           | 
           | I'm still going back.
           | 
           | Also, absurds costs of things in the US makes giant salary
           | not that giant as soon as you get kids and plan to provide
           | them with an educations.
           | 
           | Regarding future, my very personal take is that European
           | population will be vastly more resilient to what is coming.
           | (TM)
           | 
           | I'm concerned about the fabric of society itself in the US.
           | You mention future, it's unclear what's in it for the USA.
           | Europeans societies have been thought shit not that long ago
           | and survived somewhat united.
           | 
           | The US last crisis was at home was idk? the civil war?
           | 
           | But i'm sure I'm being dramatic. None the less, it's jarring.
           | I don't want to grow old here and have my kids growing up in
           | a Us culture first.
           | 
           | Again; my personal take. My goal was to shine some lights on
           | the other side POV.
        
             | ethanbond wrote:
             | The US is in a perpetual state of internal turmoil. "The
             | good ol' days" never existed. It's very likely the other
             | side of the same "dynamism" coin that produces much of the
             | innovation/growth/power that the US has accumulated.
             | 
             | The Vietnam War was a domestic crisis that involved
             | thousands of domestic terror bombings all across the
             | country, for example.
        
               | potbelly83 wrote:
               | Yep people who think the US was once some stable well run
               | country need a good history lesson. This comes from an
               | immigrant to the US happy to grow old here.
        
               | courgette wrote:
               | Sure. This has been a shit show since inception.
               | 
               | And just looking at any US city outskirts is telling.
               | 
               | Also, let's remember the position of the US in both early
               | WW1 and Ww2. Faschism & racism are not new additions.
               | 
               | But is it getting better? How is the trend in regard
               | metrics like Gini coefficient and wealth repartition?
               | 
               | What is better before ? Yes, until the 80s, the IRS and
               | middle class were still a thing.
               | 
               | I wonders what will happen to channel future
               | discontentments. What would be the outlets.
               | 
               | My concern is that once it's become absolutely clear that
               | upward mobility is broken for most, what will be the
               | recourse of the folks left over in the dust?
        
               | tomcam wrote:
               | > thousands of domestic terror bombings all across the
               | country
               | 
               | The memory-holing of these bombings fascinates me.
        
               | ls612 wrote:
               | Leftist terror violence doesn't fit the narrative for
               | today's elites.
        
               | courgette wrote:
               | Oh I remember when terrorist were white and either super
               | Christian, or at least raise Christian.
               | 
               | IRA of course, but also ETA or the Brigatte rosse in
               | France, Spain and Italy.
               | 
               | What does not fit the narrative ? I see that narrative
               | popping back in French news today with protests against
               | specific water collection stategies ( not the retirement
               | stuff, other protests ) being labeled as "eco-terrorism".
               | 
               | It looks that any resistance to the capitalism model of
               | land & resource management will be labeled that way going
               | forward ( in France. in the US I'm waiting to see what
               | happen with cop city near Atlanta. As of now nobody heard
               | of it )
        
               | ls612 wrote:
               | In the US the bombings and domestic terrorism and
               | assassinations in the late 60s and 70s were generally
               | done by left wing groups like SDS, weather underground,
               | etc. I'm not as familiar with what happened in Europe
               | around that time beyond the IRA.
        
             | j-krieger wrote:
             | I agree. For a country of patriots, the US has 0% of inner
             | unity. To each their own is what most Americans seem to
             | live by, and I'm sure 9/11 was the first and last time the
             | country United.
        
             | dekervin wrote:
             | Your username is awesome. Also what made you go to the US?
             | I am just curious
        
               | courgette wrote:
               | A woman, what else?
               | 
               | A woman, and obtuse immigration laws. She was not able to
               | stay longer in France. And long distance sucks.
        
               | mytailorisrich wrote:
               | But then you had to endure everyone calling you zucchini.
        
             | tomcam wrote:
             | > European population will be vastly more resilient to what
             | is coming. (TM)
             | 
             | Could be, considering how much the US pays in military
             | protection for Europe (money I'd be happy to stop spending)
        
               | NicoJuicy wrote:
               | Europe buys US military too, i wouldn't underestimate the
               | costs of the f-35 for each country in Europe :)
               | 
               | It's part buying military assets, but it's also the
               | protection that comes with it.
        
               | courgette wrote:
               | I was appalled when sarkozy put France back in NATO, if
               | that make you feel better.
               | 
               | Even in the current geopolitical context I would
               | preferred the US to get out of our hairs. That would
               | probably smack some sense into EU in regards to a shared
               | defense.
               | 
               | Weirdly enough, none of our politicians, or yours except
               | trump, seems to be super into the idea. I guess NATO
               | yield some dividends, too?
               | 
               | But I was more thinking at resilient community of
               | civilians. Living in village / small town that are
               | livable without that much inputs from the "grid" and
               | without driving miles and miles( because they were build
               | before that support system even existed )
               | 
               | Also, communities where living together is seen as
               | normal, not some hippie or comunist idea.
               | 
               | As a result, elder citizen can lives longer there without
               | need for adhoc care. It's cheaper to raise kids. Food is
               | cheaper and of better quality. ( farmer markets are where
               | poor people buy food, for instance, not a fancy place for
               | organic ware )
               | 
               | My observations are of rural US and rural France. Of
               | course I'm biased.
        
               | mytailorisrich wrote:
               | The US do not spend this out of their generous hearts.
               | This buys them power and control over Europe. They do
               | that for themselves (of course, all countries look after
               | themselves)
        
           | spyremeown wrote:
           | >So many of the smart, lovely people you meet here are stuck
           | on absurdly low salaries
           | 
           | Let me tell you about third world countries...
        
           | PH01 wrote:
           | > I feel for the people of Europe; they deserve better. So
           | many of the smart, lovely people you meet here are stuck on
           | absurdly low salaries in countries without any obvious future
           | other than managed decline. Instead of being offered a
           | future, they're offered endless relitigation of the past.
           | 
           | Most of the Europeans I know leave the US as soon as they
           | have kids. Everyone seems to prefer managed decline rather
           | than having their kids attend lessons on what to do if a man
           | with a gun comes into school.
        
             | j-krieger wrote:
             | Agreed. There is no real discourse on guns in the US. It's
             | not maniacs, mental health or politics. It's guns.
             | 
             | Every discussion on the gun problem leads to vague mentions
             | of better mental health or going back to communal
             | communities. Country's with far cheaper healthcare can't
             | solve the mental illness problem, only our lunatics have
             | can't walk into a store and buy a firearm.
        
           | emptyfile wrote:
           | [dead]
        
           | version_five wrote:
           | My take is that a lot of Europe has not gone for growth-at-
           | all-cost, in particular with immigration, and so has offset
           | lower salaries with more manageable social programs and lower
           | cost of living generally. There are downsides, but "managed
           | decline" is not necessarily a bad thing. I think western
           | europe is actually going to become an increasingly popular
           | destination for people leaving US + commonwealth countries.
        
           | davidjones332 wrote:
           | USA bros shouting about the money but they seem angry... 60
           | hours must be a lot to endure I feel sorry for you... In
           | Europe as you know we have the Mediterranean lifestyle and a
           | 32 hour work week... yet we get to enjoy all of the
           | technological innovations and 21st century lifestyle that you
           | do
        
           | ojhughes wrote:
           | Speak for yourself, everyone I know here is quite happy on
           | their "low salaries" and wouldn't move to the US
        
         | hot_gril wrote:
         | I'm reading this as, I should develop some kind of "sovereign"
         | tech or consultancy company then rake in tons of govt contracts
         | like this.
        
       | christkv wrote:
       | How long before someone breaches open ai and steals their model.
       | It's not like it's a lot of data but probably the highest value
       | per byte in existence.
        
       | seanhunter wrote:
       | On the one hand it will probably siphon most of that money either
       | to Infosys (PM's wife's family) or to other relatives of MPs and
       | ministers. Corruption is a very serious problem in the UK at the
       | moment.
       | 
       | On the other hand it will be the only possible source for
       | answering prompts such as:
       | 
       | 1) I am in Devon but am having tea and scones with a friend from
       | Cornwall. I want to be polite. Should I put jam on first or cream
       | on first?
       | 
       | 2) Rewrite the Joe Pesci "How am I funny?" speech from Goodfellas
       | in the style of Brian Aldridge from "The Archers"
       | 
       | 3) Explain general relativity to me in the style of a boilermaker
       | from Glasgow.
       | 
       | 4) Calculate the cosine distance between the following Welsh
       | phrases after lemmatization
       | 
       | 5) Write 500 words on the topic "Grant Shaps. Why (oh why oh
       | why)?"
       | 
       | etc.
       | 
       | On balance it's 100m well spent.
        
       | majikaja wrote:
       | To the average person I think this announcement sounds better
       | than just inviting over a Microsoft sales rep to meet with the
       | government like Japan did.
        
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