[HN Gopher] Transistor Made of Wood
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Transistor Made of Wood
Author : tlubinski
Score : 68 points
Date : 2023-04-24 20:35 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.pnas.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.pnas.org)
| em3rgent0rdr wrote:
| Transistor made of *electron-ion conducting polymer* mixed with
| wood:
|
| "The CW is prepared using a two-step strategy of wood
| delignification followed by wood amalgamation with a mixed
| electron-ion conducting polymer,
| poly(3,4-ethylenedioxythiophene)-polystyrene sulfonate
| (PEDOT:PSS)."
| hinkley wrote:
| Supercapacitors are made of charcoal, and it looks like
| charcoal is mainly lignin, so the exact opposite.
| djha-skin wrote:
| Yeah, anytime someone applies "delignification" to wood, you're
| left with rayon (synthetic cotton). Then they added polymers
| back. So it's like they mixed some plastic and some cotton
| together and called it wood.
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| Would you read a paper on "wood coated transistors" ? :-)
|
| I completely agree that the phrasing of the topic is misleading
| at best. However, the paper does add to the growing body of
| work on "organic" electronics. The journey of organic LEDs from
| concept to product is, to me, an interesting corollary. How
| much "metal" can you remove from electronics? How many of the
| elements that make electronics "toxic"? How many of the
| properties of the underlying organic base can you retain while
| still having a signal carrying capacity?
|
| As an example;
|
| E-"paper", made from cellulose hosted transistors, that are
| configured not to "switch" but to change the chemical
| composition of a "pixel" that changes is light absorption
| characteristics (and thus its "color" with respect to non-
| activated pixels.
|
| Clearly a sci-fi "dream" or construction at this point, but
| understanding how to make cellulose a conductor while retaining
| the ability to make it into paper is a step toward possible
| realization of such an idea.
|
| The bottom line for me is that "organic" electronics is one of
| those black swan type ideas that _could_ really change a lot of
| things. So I collect papers like this one to track what people
| with time to research the questions find out. :-)
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| > wood coated transistors
|
| Definitely a market for those with the audiophool crowd.
| hypertele-Xii wrote:
| Similar to the "transparent wood!" story that made rounds a
| while back, where they took the wood out of the wood and
| replaced it with transparent plastic. Incredibly dishonest.
| its_ethan wrote:
| Here's a YouTube link to anyone curious about transparent
| wood: https://youtu.be/uUU3jW7Y9Ak
|
| I don't know if I agree with it being "incredibly dishonest"
| - I think it's a bit misleading (like most popular science),
| but it comes from a place of wanting to get clicks/ be more
| mass-appeal, rather than to actually deceive.
| uoaei wrote:
| Honesty is about honestly broadcasting the extent of your
| beliefs as much as it is expressing your true beliefs. If
| you fake a naivete and then lean into that to get clicks,
| you're still being dishonest.
| Animats wrote:
| Right. Once you take the lignite out of wood, you have a
| porous structure into which you can put other liquids. There
| are other variations on this theme - super strong wood,
| conductive wood, etc.[1] Some of those tricks work on
| cellulose agricultural waste.
|
| Probably the most useful idea in this direction is oriented-
| strand board from bagasse, the long strands left after sugar
| is remove from sugar cane. Layers oriented in different
| directions are glued together, like plywood, to make
| something like particleboard, but with better tensile
| strength. It's a low-end composite material.
|
| [1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stronger-than-
| ste...
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| Is that product commercially available at low prices?
| Regular OSB took a while for me to understand but now that
| I do it's used in all sorts of stuff I build. It's cheap
| and much more dimensional than lumber, which often has a
| slight warp to it.
| lordnacho wrote:
| So if the ship's planks were replaced by carbon fibre and the
| ropes by composites, is it not the same ship?
| mc32 wrote:
| It's the same ship except it's not a wooden vessel anymore.
| dmurray wrote:
| > Wood delignification
|
| For those of you who are not up to speed on your Latin, the
| Saxon version of this word would be "unwooding".
| Joker_vD wrote:
| So is this like taking a chunk of wood out of the piece of
| wood by cutting a hole in it so you get a window (which is
| both wooden and, technically, transparent, well, mostly), or
| like taking a piece of wood and then running it through a
| chain of chemical reactions ending up with some transparent
| substance which, in its chemical structure, may not even
| resemble wood at all?
| hinkley wrote:
| There was an avenue of organ cloning being researched a few
| years ago. The idea was to treat all available organs as
| substandard (in that if it's not yours, you're buying time
| while you fight organ rejection for the rest of your days).
|
| I bring it up here because it was a lot like
| delignification. Printing organs doesn't really work, but
| what if we took a random liver, removed all of the organic
| matter except the collagen, and then introduced a small
| sample of your cells into that collagen. Can we get it to
| grow into a functioning organ that is completely
| genetically compatible with you? The answer was 'maybe'.
|
| Or perhaps a little less fanciful, delignification is kind
| of a bit like organic aerogel. Aerogel is a foam of two
| substances and we remove one. We are limited in the
| structures that can be produced. Pore size and variability
| and such.
|
| Meanwhile we can an inferior carbon aerogel out of wood
| that has enough surface to volume ratio to work as a
| capacitor. And if we make them out of bamboo, they work
| even better. Do other plants have a better structure? Can
| we use nature or nurture to tune that? (eg, consistent
| water/nutrients, or cyclical?).
|
| The best wine comes from mature grapes suffering through a
| dry spell.
| apienx wrote:
| The FTIR data is far from convincing (wrt the wood-PEDOT:PSS
| interaction), but cool demo.
|
| Bra jobbat, Isak!
| NoZebra120vClip wrote:
| I was suddenly picturing a sleek gamer desktop with unsubtle RGB
| lighting and acrylic panels highlighting sumptuous walnut veneers
| on the motherboard, cabling insulated with the smoothest silk,
| and a delicate aroma of apple pipe tobacco emanating from the
| heat sink.
| tombert wrote:
| This is interesting; maybe the "organic semiconductors" that Jan
| Hendrik Schon was working on were plausible.
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