[HN Gopher] The Effects of Noise on Health (2022)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Effects of Noise on Health (2022)
        
       Author : averageValentin
       Score  : 158 points
       Date   : 2023-04-24 19:15 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (hms.harvard.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (hms.harvard.edu)
        
       | jmugan wrote:
       | I wonder if when you take affects like this into account if it
       | really is safer to have large machines go "beep beep beep" in a
       | warning that can be heard a kilometer away.
        
       | DoreenMichele wrote:
       | _Urban sprawl and deforestation destroy natural carbon absorption
       | reservoirs while removing natural sound buffers... Conversely,
       | certain climate mitigation strategies such as creating green
       | spaces in concrete jungles offer opportunities to muffle noise._
       | 
       | Yeah, we need to up our game on making better places and it needs
       | to be a holistic approach.
       | 
       | Re the stuff about heart health and noise sensitivity:
       | 
       | Magnesium deficiency can cause noise sensitivity. Magnesium is
       | also critical to heart function, specifically the ability to keep
       | the beat.
       | 
       | Furthermore, noise causes physical vibrations much like the beat
       | of the heart, which is something you can listen for in a patient.
       | 
       | Armies historically marched to the beat of a drum because you can
       | feel the vibrations even if you can't really hear it over the din
       | of war.
       | 
       | You can put a baby to sleep by calming _yourself_ and then
       | holding them in your arms. The beat of _your_ heart will not only
       | set the pace for theirs, it will lend their heart some of your
       | energy, making it easier for them and helping them to relax.
       | 
       | Given the constructive ways vibrations can impact us, it should
       | be no surprise that vibrations from noise can also negatively
       | impact the heart.
        
       | ThatGeoGuy wrote:
       | An addendum to the posted article:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8
       | 
       | Cities aren't loud; motor vehicles are. Tire noise near heavy
       | stroads and highways are in particular egregious offenders.
       | There's a lot of other points in the comments about some other
       | urban nuisances (leaf blowers, anyone?) but I encourage anyone to
       | walk around (yes, walk) while measuring the ambient noise levels
       | with your smartphone's microphone.
       | 
       | It will be extremely obvious where the noise is coming from. This
       | is an often misunderstood part of "the war on cars:" the stress
       | gained from additional constant noise (e.g. like a highway) takes
       | YEARS off our lives.
       | 
       | And don't get me started on how loud shops are in North America.
       | For whatever reason they seem to always keep the volume three or
       | four levels above comfortable, making it much harder to have a
       | conversation without shouting at least a little.
       | 
       | It wasn't until I started traveling a lot that I started to
       | notice any of this. You can have your quiet part of town, but
       | often you get to your quiet part of town by driving through the
       | noisiest part of town where a good number of people live and
       | work.
        
         | creato wrote:
         | Not all car noise is equal though. I ride a bike regularly
         | along an 8 lane freeway. It's pretty amazing how hundreds if
         | not thousands of cars go by and it's mostly a blur of white
         | noise. But every now and then a jackass with a loud exhaust
         | goes by and it's a completely different level of annoyance.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | amluto wrote:
         | > And don't get me started on how loud shops are in North
         | America. For whatever reason they seem to always keep the
         | volume three or four levels above comfortable, making it much
         | harder to have a conversation without shouting at least a
         | little.
         | 
         | I think almost everyone operating a sound system is biased
         | toward making it too loud. I've been to events for _small
         | children_ with painfully loud sound. There will be a DJ
         | blasting 95-100 dB, never mind that (a) no one is on the dance
         | floor because it's too loud, (b) everyone is there to chat and
         | do crafts anyway, not to listen to music, and (c) it's actively
         | dangerous to expose people to that volume.
         | 
         | I've also seen events where the DJ or band keeps edging the
         | volume higher. It's like they become desensitized to their own
         | music and keep feeling like it needs to be 1 dB higher to sound
         | right.
         | 
         | I believe that France actually regulates sound exposure. I bet
         | that France's maximum SPL plus a pair of good 10-15 dB earplugs
         | would make for a great concert experience.
        
           | jerlam wrote:
           | > I've also seen events where the DJ or band keeps edging the
           | volume higher. It's like they become desensitized to their
           | own music and keep feeling like it needs to be 1 dB higher to
           | sound right.
           | 
           | This is very much a thing and not limited to DJs or bands.
           | 
           | Some advice I got a long time ago (but can't find the
           | source): if you've been listening to music for a while, turn
           | the volume down to zero, and then slowly increase the volume
           | back to where it sounds the same. You usually end up with an
           | absolutely lower volume but it sounds exactly the same.
           | 
           | Also if you go to concerts and wear earplugs, your brain
           | eventually recalibrates the sound so eventually it sounds
           | just like normal volume.
        
         | throwaway22032 wrote:
         | Eh. I live in London, that well known city.
         | 
         | Cars aren't loud here unless you specifically live on a major
         | road.
         | 
         | What is loud is construction noise. Aeroplanes. Excitable
         | drunks walking by at night. Sirens from emergency vehicles.
         | 
         | This is just what living in a city is. You have people and
         | people do and need things.
        
           | ThatGeoGuy wrote:
           | Some of these are things we can control with infrastructure
           | and regulation (e.g. why is your airport so close to
           | housing?), and others aren't really what I would consider
           | problematic noise.
           | 
           | Sirens are an unfortunate reality, but the reason they're so
           | loud is because most cars have a ton of sound-proofing. I'm
           | sure you know this, but you can hear sirens blocks away when
           | they're trying to alert a driver... maybe 20 metres in front
           | of them to move out of the way?
           | 
           | As for excitable drunks, I think there are places where
           | that's a constant problem, but again, this isn't constant and
           | permanent. Traffic noise and airplanes are pretty constant
           | though - I live on what should be a pretty quiet stretch of
           | land but the local stroad always has at least a few really
           | loud cars in the wee hours of the morning. The rest of the
           | day it's just lots of regular cars making a lot of noise as
           | cars are want to do. At least with the excitable drunks they
           | don't make noise all hours of the day, since they have to
           | sleep or be drinking at some point!
        
         | drukenemo wrote:
         | I'd say construction work is a close second offender in any
         | major city with high population density.
        
           | Arrath wrote:
           | By necessity, unfortunately. Loud diesel engines, jackhammers
           | and rock breakers that require workers to have hearing
           | protection, all anchored by an undercurrent of backup alarms
           | that must pierce the rest of the din and the hearing
           | protection to be audible to the workers.
        
             | decafninja wrote:
             | Many US cities and towns permit construction to happen at
             | relatively early hours - like 6 or 7 AM. That's usually not
             | a problem if you're a 9-5er.
             | 
             | It is a massive problem if you work late shifts. My wife
             | works in the restaurant business and 6 or 7 AM she's still
             | deep asleep.
             | 
             | We had construction near our condo for nearly three years
             | where spring, summer, and fall the jackhammers started at
             | around a little before 7 every weekday. It was brutal for
             | her.
             | 
             | That, plus various other issues, lead us to decide our next
             | home is going to be a quiet single family home in a suburb.
             | Yes - a suburb!
        
         | b33j0r wrote:
         | I find it fascinating. Jet engine combustion isn't what you're
         | mostly hearing near an airport, when it's really annoying.
         | 
         | It's mostly the aerodynamic pressures coming from the flaps,
         | the landing gear, and the angle into the airflow of the craft.
         | Most planes are pretty quiet in cruise, in relative terms.
         | 
         | (Except for high-performance military-power engines that just
         | don't care. They have to defy gravity with much less stable
         | glide lift. They also get to.)
        
         | blowski wrote:
         | I believe the noisy shop thing is intentionally to discourage
         | you from chatting. Chatty customers buy less. I think I read
         | this in Trolley Wars.
        
         | drewcsillag wrote:
         | "Cities aren't loud; motor vehicles are", especially busses and
         | subways. They can be nearly deafening.
         | 
         | Cars comparatively are nothing.
        
           | theteapot wrote:
           | Except the cars that are designed to be loud. Engine breaking
           | trucks are pretty bad too.
        
         | Sakos wrote:
         | So the moment I leave my door until I reach my destination's
         | door, I have my isolated Bose headphones on. Even if I'm not
         | listening to anything, I keep them turned on and covering my
         | ears. The other day I took them off and was alarmed by this
         | loud sound of a car approaching just before I started to cross
         | the street. I look over and it's a good 200m away.
         | 
         | Cars are ridiculously loud and few of us really recognize how
         | loud they are.
         | 
         | I started nearly permanently wearing them because I read some
         | articles about the effect of ambient noise on hearing over
         | long-term. But since then I've also noticed how noisy and
         | disturbing cities are in general. It's so damn peaceful and
         | calm when I have the headphones on and I could never do without
         | them anymore.
        
       | moremetadata wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | tppiotrowski wrote:
       | > Researchers have found that the more people are bothered by
       | noise, the greater the health risks they face from it.
       | 
       | This is due to stress. I have wondered for a long time how
       | increased education contributes to cardio vascular risk as we are
       | learning things to avoid and when we encounter them cortisol
       | spikes. This could be red meat or sugar or UV rays or lack of
       | sleep or lack of exercise or in this case too much noise etc.
        
         | graeme wrote:
         | In my experience people don't generally believe noise is bad
         | for health beyond being annoying. Do you have any evidence for
         | your belief the health effects are merely due to stress rather
         | than being real?
         | 
         | (Or that noise isn't causing physiological stress)
         | 
         | You can find all kinds of rat studies where noise worsens rat
         | health. The rats surely haven't been reading media articles
         | about the effects of noise.
        
         | gabereiser wrote:
         | What about the colloquial increased education = increased
         | stress. I'm not talking about the stress of trying to pay your
         | bills on a welders salary, but the stress of running enterprise
         | projects, teams, or being the top neuroscientist in your field.
         | The stress from that is a different kind. It's a continual
         | stress especially for those that suffer from impostor syndrome.
         | Anyway, interesting theory about cortisol spikes. Where can I
         | read more?
        
           | asdfman123 wrote:
           | Lower socioeconomic status is on average far more stressful
           | than high SES.
           | 
           | Sure, it's possible to be relaxed about your lower status,
           | but it's way easier to be relaxed about being richer: e.g.,
           | look at your coworkers who are quietly working for 4 hours
           | and then going out biking in the middle of the day.
           | 
           | There's a cultural narrative that in some ways, richer people
           | have it harder than poorer ones. It's responsible for
           | underpinning the moral legitimacy of our class system, but I
           | don't think it's actually true on average.
           | 
           | The thing is, no matter where you land you're going to find
           | people who are unhappy or are struggling with their problems,
           | but that's just because humans in general struggle with
           | things.
        
             | woooooo wrote:
             | Getting a chance to productively and quietly work for 4
             | hours is pretty unusual for a lot of us.
        
               | airstrike wrote:
               | Personally I am able to find that more often doing chores
               | around the house than actually doing work in the
               | office... which must be why I love doing the dishes
        
               | asdfman123 wrote:
               | You have that option though if you really seek it out.
        
         | pen2l wrote:
         | The average homo sapiens about a thousand generations ago faced
         | greater adversity than what almost any of us has faced,
         | particularly in raw nature where predators roamed. What were
         | the cortisol levels like for that average homo sapiens?
         | 
         | We were always tribal and social animals, so I wonder if the
         | security from communal living played a very important role in
         | moderating stress and building resilience.
        
           | faeriechangling wrote:
           | Who is to say that our ancestors coped with stressors?
           | Evolution doesn't care about much other than your ability to
           | reproduce.
        
           | CrampusDestrus wrote:
           | short term stress vs. cronic stress
           | 
           | if you can, read Sapolsky's book about it "Why zebras don't
           | get ulcers"
        
           | lr4444lr wrote:
           | They lived an average of how long? Enough to have kids at age
           | 18-20, and help their kids raise their own for 2-5 years when
           | they reached that same age. Evolution didn't equip us to live
           | much longer than that.
        
             | dragonwriter wrote:
             | > They lived an average of how long?
             | 
             | If they made it to at least 15, then probably on average
             | somewhere between the 40s and late 50s from estimates I've
             | seen.
             | 
             | (1,000 generations being probably < 30kya; there appears to
             | have been a fairly radical expandsion in lifespan around
             | 30kya, before that most estimates I've seen would have
             | adults, by thrbsame definition, averaging sonewhere in the
             | mid-30s or so.)
        
             | PuppyTailWags wrote:
             | > Enough to have kids at age 18-20, and help their kids
             | raise their own for 2-5 years when they reached that same
             | age. Evolution didn't equip us to live much longer than
             | that.
             | 
             | Huh? Humans can live upwards of 3 generations worth of
             | humans. It's not uncommon for humans to remain functional
             | enough to raise their grandchildren!
        
           | kekebo wrote:
           | From what I understand a key difference from then to now were
           | short term stressors that appeared solvable by direct
           | (group-) action as opposed to modern day long term stressors
           | that can appear abstract and outside of our own radius of
           | action, resulting in paralysis and
           | psychological/physiological harm over long periods of time.
           | 
           | Don't have a source on hand though, may have come from a book
           | by Robert Sapolsky
        
             | RC_ITR wrote:
             | Sure but we've always known about dying, the ultimate
             | insolvable problem.
        
             | noahchumsky wrote:
             | Why zebras don't get ulcers!
        
               | culi wrote:
               | for anyone unaware, this is a book by Stanford professor
               | Robert Sapolsky:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Zebras_Don%27t_Get_Ulce
               | rs
               | 
               | The book is about stress and the impact of
               | glucocorticoids on the body. The chemical stress response
               | used in "the wild" by animals is actually the same as the
               | stress response we have when worrying about losing our
               | job, not being able to complete a paper for school,
               | dealing with poverty, etc. It's a partial explanation for
               | why modern humans have so many chronic diseases that are
               | rarely seen in other animals (or even
               | archeological/anthropological evidence of non-industrial
               | societies but he doesn't really go there much in the
               | book)
               | 
               | I also highly recommend Sapolsky's Human Behavior Biology
               | course which he taught for Stanford but published on
               | YouTube:
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnIGh9g6fA
        
           | sasas wrote:
           | Peter Attia has an interview with Robert Sapolsky that was
           | recently "rebroadcasted" - " The impact of stress on our
           | physical and emotional health" [1]
           | 
           | Highly recommended listening.
           | 
           | As a neuroendocrinology researcher, much Robert Sapolsky's
           | life work revolves around the questions your pondering on. He
           | has spent years studying wild baboons in Kenya, " ..
           | specifically, Sapolsky studies the cortisol levels between
           | the alpha male and female and the subordinates to determine
           | stress level." [2]
           | 
           | [1] https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-peter-attia-
           | drive/...
           | 
           | [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sapolsky
        
           | culi wrote:
           | > What were the cortisol levels like for that average homo
           | sapiens?
           | 
           | Much much lower actually. We use the same stress response for
           | seeing a lion that we do to stress about making a mortgage
           | payment. That's why we get ulcers and zebras don't
           | 
           | On top of that _Homo sapiens_ also just had much more
           | freetime and the median lifespans were actually not too far
           | off from what they are today (~72 years[0]). Yes there was a
           | huge dip in lifespans in (some) agricultural societies and
           | when the industrial revolution started and there 's
           | definitely a lot of variation in difficulties faced but
           | overall on average prehistoric peoples were healthier and
           | much less stressed out than the average American is today.
           | Also peoples that lived on islands and certain other
           | ecosystems didn't really have to deal with predators at all.
           | Predators are very unlikely to be the biggest source of
           | stress in general as even the most dangerous of all
           | predators, big cats, are very unlikely to attack a group of
           | humans. As long as you're with your tribe you generally don't
           | have much to fear.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20181002-how-long-did-
           | anc...
        
           | InitialLastName wrote:
           | There's an interesting question whether it makes a difference
           | that as human societies have modernized (through the
           | agricultural, industrial and digital revolutions) the causes
           | of stress have become progressively more detached from
           | physical or existential adversity and the physical stress
           | related to those threats (adrenaline, exertion, starvation,
           | etc).
        
           | ekanes wrote:
           | Sort of. Now your cortisol could spike because of all kinds
           | of things, none of which you can SEE. That's usually called
           | anxiety. Back thousands of generations ago, if you were high
           | on a rock by your cave with a good view, you knew you were
           | safe.
           | 
           | Carrying this forward, we humans will have to work on better
           | systems, because it's about to get worse/weirder. Our brains
           | aren't designed to be good at detecting lies _visually_ -- we
           | have mental processes for speech, but visually, what you saw
           | was always real. Now with AI in the mix, it 's gonna get...
           | messy.
        
             | RC_ITR wrote:
             | >if you were high on a rock by your cave with a good view,
             | you knew you were safe.
             | 
             | But you also knew that you had to go on the hunt again
             | tomorrow.
        
               | just-ok wrote:
               | So do you: it's called a job.
               | 
               | And you still have to worry about traffic/accidents,
               | performing well, getting fired or laid off, getting
               | berated by customers/clients/bosses, plus any number of
               | additional anxiety-inducing events.
               | 
               | Most of us would probably still take that trade, though:
               | at least sitting all day kills you slowly relative to a
               | mountain lion.
        
         | mrkrabs wrote:
         | Have you found any notable stories where someone genetically
         | prone to stress has meaningfully overcome it? I tend to worry
         | and control my environment but never quite find a sweet spot
         | between knowledge and ignorance.
        
         | avgcorrection wrote:
         | _Research shows that being knowledgable about health risks is
         | "the new smoking"_
         | 
         |  _Friendly health experts still insist that 97% of the
         | population still don't eat enough cauliflower_
        
       | knocknock wrote:
       | Any dangers in using a loud White Noise machine? We use it
       | everyday for our baby.
        
         | hawski wrote:
         | My kid sleeps with some kind of white/brown noise since being
         | around 2 years old. The child psychologist we went to with,
         | now, the 6 year old recommended us to try to eliminate the
         | noise. She seems to need it to fall asleep, but around midnight
         | it should be easier, but we still have ups and downs with it.
         | The psychologist said that it is a kind of a strain for the
         | nervous system as it is kept being stimulated (at least that's
         | how I understood and tried to translate it to English).
        
         | mpreda wrote:
         | Maybe it would be prudent to set it to less loud pending a
         | definite answer to your question.
        
         | ttpphd wrote:
         | So long as it is 75 dB SPL or softer in intensity, you should
         | be fine. You may want to consider acclimating your baby to be
         | able to tolerate sleeping without the machine or with the
         | machine at a softer volume. This can help set better sleeping
         | habits in the long term.
        
         | jodi wrote:
         | Neuroscientist Andrew Huberman covered some science behind
         | exposure to white noise during development/using white noise
         | machines with babies in his episode "The Science of Hearing,
         | Balance & Accelerated Learning". Its nuanced, but he says there
         | is some evidence it can be detrimental to a baby's
         | brain/auditory system if used for long periods of time.
         | https://youtu.be/JVRyzYB9JSY?t=3351
        
       | albertgt wrote:
       | I wear noise cancelling headphones to sleep. When I wake up I
       | feel immensely better, I recommend it!
        
         | dotancohen wrote:
         | A recent HN thread described how noise cancelling headphones
         | may cause tinnitus. You might want to research that.
        
         | navigate8310 wrote:
         | I would like to know more about this. Do you suggest wearing
         | plugs made for music concerts? Or they are completely
         | different?
        
           | accrual wrote:
           | I wear earplugs every night. I personally can't imagine
           | wearing actual noise cancelling headphones which would
           | prevent me from moving freely and requiring a charge every
           | night. But good quality earplugs (e.g. from Etymotic,
           | Downbeats, or Loop) make a world of sleep quality difference,
           | especially when paired with a sleep mask.
        
         | pawelduda wrote:
         | What model? Mine wouldn't probably last all night. And I assume
         | you mean earbuds?
         | 
         | Do you think there's a meaningful advantage over using quality
         | ear plugs?
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | Related: Nearly 20% Adults May Have Misophonia - Significant
       | Negative Responses to Sounds (neurosciencenews.com) 65 points by
       | bookofjoe 29 days ago 98 comments
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35317452
        
       | sylware wrote:
       | And social acceptance?
       | 
       | I have been suffering from chronic parastesia... which I can
       | _hear_!
       | 
       | Falling to sleep and focus are challenges everyday. No pause, no
       | break, no cease fire.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | tayo42 wrote:
       | I feel like there's some kind do difference with noise tolerance
       | between either culture or class. Hard to say, in the US foreign
       | culture tends to be lower economic class.
        
         | throwaway22032 wrote:
         | There's a big connection between any form of externality
         | tolerance and class IME.
         | 
         | I don't mind noisy DIY work, older cars polluting, parties on
         | the weekend. It means that I can do them too.
         | 
         | As long as it's not preventing people from sleeping on work
         | days I don't see the problem to be honest.
        
       | wenc wrote:
       | My stress levels decreased after getting a pair of AirPods Pro 2.
       | It literally creates a cone of silence around me.
       | 
       | I wish there was something similar I could wear during sleep
       | comfortably. I tried earplugs but somehow my sleep is less
       | restful with them in. I suspect they either make my inside noises
       | more noticeable or block airflow during night time breathing.
       | 
       | I guess the other more expensive solution is to move to an
       | apartment facing a courtyard rather than the streets or to get
       | heavy noise blocking curtains.
       | 
       | I know Bose used to make noise canceling sleep buds but I'm not
       | sure how well they work. Since they're discontinued I'm guessing
       | not well.
        
         | jffhn wrote:
         | >I tried earplugs but somehow my sleep is less restful with
         | them in.
         | 
         | Earplugs also tend to cause noise when you move your jaw, or
         | even just slightly move your head.
         | 
         | I use Peltor X4A noise reduction earmuffs, with only the top of
         | the head on the cushion when I'm on the side, that's the best I
         | could find (its very dense foam makes it much better than a lot
         | of earmuffs, also it's passive so no need for batteries).
         | 
         | You can also combine earmuffs with earplugs, it improves the
         | reduction a little bit (can't do magic with some of the sound
         | going through the body anyway), but you shouldn't need it
         | unless your place is very noisy.
         | 
         | Peltor X5A is a bit better but much larger, so with it it's
         | best to lay on the back.
         | 
         | With such good protection you might not ear your alarm clock,
         | so instead you might want to use vibrate phone alarm with the
         | phone in your pocket.
        
         | jallbrit wrote:
         | I am a sensitive sleeper and after waking up from loud sounds
         | and roommates for a while, I got Loop Quiet earplugs (I wear
         | the smallest size), and I've been wearing them every night.
         | Occasionally I pull them out during my sleep but they stay in
         | very well and are definitely effective. I sleep much better
         | now. I would recommend them.
        
       | PuppyTailWags wrote:
       | I'm always curious: what is the effect of noise on the noise
       | producers? As much as I have a disdain for leafblowers, and as
       | much as I absolutely despise people who play bass-heavy music at
       | night, why don't they suffer the same ill effects and heart
       | issues as the people they subject noise to?
        
         | monktastic1 wrote:
         | I'm not sure of the answer, but it's generally the case that
         | things affect us much more negatively when we have no control
         | over them and feel at their mercy. I haven't read TFA to see if
         | they controlled for this, but it wouldn't surprise me if that
         | was actually the majority of the problem.
         | 
         | Edit:
         | 
         | > Researchers have found that the more people are bothered by
         | noise, the greater the health risks they face from it.
         | 
         | It would be great to do a study where people learn a technique
         | like meditation to be less "bothered" by noise and see how that
         | affects their biomarkers.
        
         | emerongi wrote:
         | I used to live in an apartment where the upstairs neighbour
         | would just randomly start trampling super hard. If it had been
         | a constant noise - like the cars driving outside - my brain
         | would probably have gotten accustomed to it. It seemed to me
         | like it was agitating because it was at random times, when I
         | wasn't expecting it.
         | 
         | When I turn on the bass, I am in control. I can turn it on when
         | I don't have anything important going on and I can always turn
         | it off. That makes the bass enjoyable. If it's somebody else's
         | bass, then I don't know when it starts, when it ends and
         | whether it will interrupt me. That's the source of frustration
         | for me.
         | 
         | I'm generally fine with monotonous background noise, as long as
         | it's not too loud. There's probably still some subtle passive
         | effect on my health, but I can live with that.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | coldtea wrote:
         | Who said they don't?
         | 
         | That said, one difference is also that they do use their leaf
         | blowers after they wake up first or are in the mood to do it,
         | so they're not disturbing their own sleep or quiet time.
        
         | 1970-01-01 wrote:
         | They do?
        
           | Anechoic wrote:
           | I don't know why you're being downvoted, but you're correct -
           | they do.
        
         | cesnja wrote:
         | They wear earmuffs and aren't trying to sleep, respectively.
        
       | spacemadness wrote:
       | And many America cities flat out refuse to contain construction
       | noise. As someone very sensitive to noise, it strikes me as pure
       | stupidity and barbaric in how we construct buildings and fix our
       | cities with no consideration of its effects. People act like they
       | aren't effected but most people seem quite out of touch with what
       | actually effects their moods and stress levels.
        
       | virtualwhys wrote:
       | Perhaps a similar study could be done in, say, India.
       | 
       | I'm not sure if it's due to their being used to loud/disturbing
       | noise , or if Indians in general have some kind of ongoing inner
       | Zen, but the amount of noise that the general population seems to
       | completely ignore (e.g. a vehicle loudly and continuously honking
       | right behind you as you walk) is really quite impressive.
       | 
       | I remember eating dinner at a restaurant in Rishikesh one night
       | in a quiet remote-ish area. There were some workers about to
       | unload a truck, and just in front of them on the restaurant
       | grounds was a multi-generational Indian family all together
       | enjoying their meal. I saw two of the workers casually hurl this
       | big piece of sheet metal onto a metal trailer, resulting in a
       | massive clash of ear piercing noise that the family somehow just
       | ignored, not a head turn of annoyance (as would be typical in the
       | west), just continue the conversation without skipping a beat --
       | amazing.
        
         | droopyEyelids wrote:
         | India's life expectancy is almost 10% shorter than the USA's
         | (70 vs 77)
        
       | ternaryoperator wrote:
       | I've long felt that the truest luxury in today's world is
       | silence.
        
         | slfnflctd wrote:
         | Unfortunately, that luxury is out of reach for people with
         | permanent tinnitus, along with those of us who are hyper-aware
         | of the sounds of our own bodies.
         | 
         | I'll likely always prefer some amount of white noise to a
         | totally silent space. A smooth-running fan has regenerative
         | properties for me. Up to certain thresholds, I can turn that
         | fan up to drown out the majority of whatever noise might be
         | going on outside my room or building. It's helpful to be able
         | to disconnect and float in your cocoon, whether for work, play,
         | meditation or sleep.
        
       | mhb wrote:
       | I don't like leafblowers and other loud noises either, but isn't
       | this article pretty thin soup?
       | 
       | "Stephanie Dutchen is manager of feature content and multimedia
       | in the HMS Office of Communications and External Relations."
        
       | JCM9 wrote:
       | A lot of this boils down to the need for better zoning and
       | stricter controls on what happens where when. Forces today are
       | pulling things in other directions... build houses everywhere,
       | even in places where it makes no sense to build houses.
       | 
       | We're seeing things like former green belts around airports now
       | being turned into housing developments. There were no houses
       | there in large part because of noise. Now developers move in and
       | build big developments there with new residents screaming about
       | how bad the noise is. Can't make it up.
        
         | RC_ITR wrote:
         | The above is because more desirable places to live have been
         | zoned for no new housing.
         | 
         | Stricter zoning isn't the answer. Looser zoning is.
        
       | NKosmatos wrote:
       | A fully detached house, with good soundproof insulation and with
       | a surrounding garden with trees and bushes is the best solution
       | for people wanting a quiet place.
       | 
       | I find it strange that in our modern houses the "weak" sound is
       | so difficult to get blocked, whereas the "powerful" light can be
       | easily kept out.
        
       | wantlotsofcurry wrote:
       | How do y'all deal with determining what noise levels you'd have
       | to endure when purchasing a new home/renting a new apartment?
        
       | bedobi wrote:
       | this article about noise really resonates with me (pun intended)
       | 
       | in my most recent neighborhoods (newly constructed multi use
       | ones)
       | 
       | * my neighbors would have all-night parties
       | 
       | * people would revv and race their modded sports cars and hogs up
       | and down driveways and the street (residential culdesac) at all
       | hours of the day and night
       | 
       | * teams of leaf blowering maintenance workers walked around
       | during the day
       | 
       | * an open air venue opened across the street. they had loud, bass
       | heavy music that made the walls and furniture shake, and drunk
       | people screaming, fighting and loitering past closing time (3am)
       | 
       | * a cross fit gym opened across the street. they also played
       | loud, bass heavy music that made the walls and furniture shake,
       | with cargo doors open and trainers and clients screaming and
       | doing intervals in the street (they opened at 5am)
       | 
       | * a bbq restaurant opened across the street. it had a vent that
       | released basically unfiltered smog around the clock. it made it
       | impossible to be on the balcony or keep windows open, and it
       | quickly built up a brown, sticky residue on surrounding
       | buildings. EDIT here is a recording of one of the vents
       | https://photos.app.goo.gl/gxNBn5LGkZBCQc9o6 note that right above
       | it are the residential balconies and windows of the same building
       | - would you want to live there? + you didn't need to live in that
       | building to get the "benefits", the smog was generously
       | distributed all over the neighborhood and came inside and made
       | the clothes inside your closet smell even if your windows were
       | closed
       | 
       | needless to say, it's impossible to function while living in such
       | an environment, so I moved, only to find the new neighborhoods
       | also plagued by the same things. (in case anyone is wondering,
       | this was Broadbeach, Newstead and West End QLD Australia)
       | 
       | me I'm a hardcore YIMBY. I _want_ to live in a mixed use urban
       | environment with entertainment, exercise, restaurant and
       | everything you need around. but it becomes impossible if it 's
       | 24-7. common sense hours like 08:00-22:00 would be good. oh and
       | breathable air.
       | 
       | many residents asked council and state government especially
       | about the hours of operation of the venues (if bars play music
       | until 3 and gyms at 5, when are we supposed to sleep?) and the
       | unfiltered smog coming from the vents (100% hazardous levels,
       | especially since it's all day every day long term), but they said
       | all of it was OK.
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | Wow, I thought our mere 4 days a week of leaf blowers (and
         | actually illegal but unenforced) was bad.
        
         | dalmo3 wrote:
         | I see so many people leaving NZ for Australia nowadays, and
         | friends ask me if I'm going too.
         | 
         | I live 5 min from Wellington CBD, and apart from buses or the
         | occasional construction work it's deafening silence.
         | 
         | Anecdotes like this make me feel so lucky.
        
           | bedobi wrote:
           | to be fair, given that it's an entire continent, there's
           | endless spaces where you can live in perfect peace and quiet
           | 
           | but that would be in solitude, not near any urban life lol
           | 
           | in urban spaces in Australia you're all but guaranteed having
           | to deal at the very least with hooning and inconsiderate
           | neighbours (I've lived in many different countries and
           | Australia def stands out in how incredibly inconsiderate and
           | aggressive people can be, and how large the share of the
           | population are like that, lol)
        
             | wizofaus wrote:
             | I'm in a townhouse 4k from the centre of one of the big 3
             | CBDs and can't say I've ever had a problem with
             | inconsiderate neighbours, though it's definitely possible
             | to hear them through the walls from time to time. As for
             | noise, the nearby (<500m) outdoor festival venue has
             | definitely been a source of it a few times but surprisingly
             | we heard nothing from the last few shows, probably
             | something to do with wind direction and stage orientation.
             | It's vastly quieter than anywhere 4km from the centre of
             | many other big cities around the world would be (Rome in
             | particular comes to mind - I remember almost nothing about
             | the place we stayed in except that there was virtually
             | never a moment's silence, ever, and it was a good 5km from
             | the town centre).
        
       | Jeff_Brown wrote:
       | I've heard many times in Colombia that it's customary to accustom
       | babies to noise when they sleep. Also people love their
       | subwoofers here, and partying until dawn. I bought an apartment
       | in a community with a huge fraction of old people to escape that.
       | I've seen people here sleep through experiences I could barely
       | _think_ during.
       | 
       | Even my own brain appears to have acclimated somewhat, though.
       | Last week I got some nice noise-canceling headphones, and each
       | time I take them off I'm shocked to realize how noisy the
       | environment is, unless I'm at home. (Actually even at home, when
       | I'm running the air filter, to protect myself from a different
       | kind of pollution ...)
        
         | dahwolf wrote:
         | You forgot to include Colombian smartphone usage: max volume on
         | speaker, then play videos and make phone calls.
        
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