[HN Gopher] Egypt builds worlds largest man-made river
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       Egypt builds worlds largest man-made river
        
       Author : manojr13
       Score  : 87 points
       Date   : 2023-04-24 17:51 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.constructionweekonline.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.constructionweekonline.com)
        
       | ChuckMcM wrote:
       | The California aqueduct (444 miles, 714km) would like to have a
       | word :-).
       | 
       | Basically built for the same reason, the central valley of
       | California was mostly arid but the top soil was good for
       | agriculture. The underground aquifer was a limit on how much
       | farming (and of what type) could be done.
        
         | sidewndr46 wrote:
         | Doesn't California also contain the largest earthen dam or
         | something to that extent? It's not as impressive as the Hoover
         | dam or the Three Gorges dam but it's still huge from what I
         | understand.
        
           | PuffinBlue wrote:
           | Largest in the US at least.
           | 
           | Fairly recently it decided to shorten it's own spillway a bit
           | though. Shortly afterwards it gained a whole lot of concrete.
           | 
           | Juan Brown has a very comprehensive series on that
           | excitement[0]
           | 
           | [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wikin2TJ7b0&list=PL6SYmp3q
           | b3...
        
         | PicassoCTs wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | ninjagoo wrote:
           | > The California aqueduct (444 miles, 714km) would like to
           | have a word :-)
           | 
           | >> How can a country that is barely even 300 years old, have
           | such a bloated ego.What deep rooted insecurity makes it
           | necessary to toot ones horn, long after all neighbors have
           | gone deaf?
           | 
           | I don't know what has caused you to lash out in that manner,
           | but that was unnecessary. OP did not make a claim that the
           | California aqueduct was the longest man-made river, merely
           | that the aqueduct is longer than the Egyptian project, so the
           | latter's claim to the longest man-made river might not be
           | valid.
        
             | ChuckMcM wrote:
             | In fairness to the GP Americans from the US _are_ nominally
             | assholes with their  "we're the best" attitude. Although
             | these days I think you would find more and more "we suck"
             | attitudes especially with the hollowing out of the
             | institutions and our inability to do anything about health
             | care or gun related deaths. Historically this sort of
             | animus is directed towards the leading economy (which may
             | be China one of these days). In the past the English, the
             | Dutch, and the French have dealt with this sort of thing.
             | 
             | By and large though for _PicassoCTs_ , the framing of my
             | comment was to poke fun at the editorial decision to call
             | it the longest man made river, I did not, and do not, under
             | appreciate the positive aspects of the project and the
             | industrial and political will Egypt had to muster to create
             | it. You need look no further than high speed rail, which
             | the Egyptians are well on their way to building a network
             | to connect the northern part of the country to the south,
             | and California, a state with an economy literally 10x the
             | size of Egypt's has been unable to pull off.
             | 
             | So no, I harbor no misconceptions about the US being
             | "exceptional", you can rest assured of that.
        
               | PicassoCTs wrote:
               | Im sorry then, i misinterpreted. I guess i should delete
               | this rant, but then mistakes are what makes us human and
               | maybe i accidentally displayed just another sort of
               | hubris :D
               | 
               | Have a pleasant day
        
         | MichaelZuo wrote:
         | There are indeed several man-made rivers longer then this so
         | it's unclear what the editors were thinking with this headline.
         | 
         | The longest one that I know of is the Grand Canal in China,
         | which begain construction approx. 1400 years ago.
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Canal_(China)
        
           | dogma1138 wrote:
           | Whilst it could be that the editor or author are technically
           | wrong it's also quite possible that they might be technically
           | correct and were just arguing semantics here.
           | 
           | As far as geography/geology/hydrology goes rivers have a
           | specific definition which the grand canal might not fit
           | especially as one big system since afaik it extends and
           | connects to multiple rivers and the water doesn't flow in a
           | single direction into a larger body of water.
        
             | carl_dr wrote:
             | I think the distinction the authors are making - correctly
             | or not, I'm not sure, plenty of rivers don't flow to the
             | sea - is this artificial river flows into the sea, not into
             | other canals or rivers.
             | 
             | The grand canal connects the Yellow and Yangtze rivers, for
             | example.
        
             | MichaelZuo wrote:
             | Each contiguous part of the Grand Canal only flows in one
             | direction, it would be impossible for it to work otherwise.
             | 
             | You do have a point though that this new river in Egypt may
             | be the 'largest' on some other metric.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | The issue isn't direction but rather having multiple
               | branches as a river only includes channel(s) going
               | downstream from a single point. Without that definition a
               | river's length would be the length of every river
               | connected to it.
               | 
               | Thus the Mississippi and Ohio river are considered
               | different rivers even though their waters mix and both
               | flow downstream through the same channel.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_River,
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_River
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | oh_sigh wrote:
           | Maybe it is by total volume or flow rate
        
           | dudeinjapan wrote:
           | So you're saying these Egyptians are in de nile?
        
           | baud147258 wrote:
           | I don't think a canal that's split by locks would qualify as
           | a river that's running in one direction all the way
        
         | methehack wrote:
         | The Erie Canal (362.9 mi) is not as long as the California
         | aqueduct nor the Grand Canal in China but it is also longer
         | than the "man made river" of the article, and IT HAS A SONG,
         | and a good one at that.
        
         | dogma1138 wrote:
         | This will act like a river as it does flow into the med and
         | will create a new delta (hence the name).
        
         | kpetermeni wrote:
         | Libya's Great Man-Made River (1,750mi, 2,820km) [0] would like
         | to have a few more words :-). [0]
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man-Made_River
        
           | nottorp wrote:
           | Let's nitpick then. It says: "According to its website, it is
           | the largest underground network of pipes (2,820 kilometres
           | (1,750 mi))[3] and aqueducts in the world.".
           | 
           | It could concievably have no pipe longer than 114 km.
           | 
           | Also if it's underground it's not a river?
        
             | stickfigure wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subterranean_river
        
         | Retric wrote:
         | An aqueduct isn't a river. While the exact definition may seem
         | vague the use of multiple pumping stations along the Californi
         | aqueduct are one obvious difference.
         | 
         | Ex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmonston_Pumping_Plant,
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dos_Amigos_Pumping_Plant, etc.
        
       | mrwnmonm wrote:
       | Egypt don't know what she should do.
        
       | nologic01 wrote:
       | Are there any prior examples of rehydrating the desert that have
       | actually worked? (note: from an agricultural perspective, not as
       | artificial oases turned into gambling destinations :-).
       | 
       | The question is in relation to the quality of the soil after
       | millenia of arid conditions. The Nile valley and delta are
       | historically fertile due to seasonal sedimentation, but that too
       | has stopped with the Aswan High Dam [1]
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-30216-4_...
        
         | igravious wrote:
         | "China's efforts to halt the Gobi provide a blueprint for
         | tackling desertification"
         | 
         | https://www.unccd.int/news-stories/stories/chinas-efforts-ha...
        
         | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
         | > Are there any prior examples of rehydrating the desert that
         | have actually worked?
         | 
         | As others have noted, there are large swaths of productive
         | agriculture land in California that were, and would continue to
         | be, giant deserts without extensive irrigation projects.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Valley
        
         | thekid314 wrote:
         | Egypt's previous de-desertification project "Toshka" kinda of
         | worked. It wasn't the massive job creator that it was sold as
         | because most of the farming was very large scale and
         | mechanized. But it was able to produce large amounts of high
         | quality food that Egyptians rarely saw because it was more
         | valuable for export.
         | 
         | Here are some photos I shot of it for The National:
         | https://www.daviddegner.com/photography/toshka/
        
       | justrealist wrote:
       | > The New Delta project is the future of Egypt. It will be
       | implemented in two years," Sisi said in statements during his
       | visit to the Suez Canal Authority's Maritime Training and
       | Simulation Center in the canal city of Ismailia
       | 
       | There's a LOT that Egypt does wrong that I don't want to
       | replicate in the US. But the US could never get a project of this
       | scale through environmental review anymore, much less in less
       | than 20 years. Really quite disappointing seeing incompetent
       | autocracies outperforming us at building anything larger than a
       | semiconductor.
        
         | tick_tock_tick wrote:
         | I mean we build slow because of "environmental reviews" and
         | regulatory capture. You'd expect autocracies to be able to
         | execute quicker anyway.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _we build slow because of "environmental reviews" and
           | regulatory capture. You'd expect autocracies to be able to
           | execute quicker anyway._
           | 
           | To emphasize: the Hoover Dam was authorized in 1928 and
           | dedicated in '35 [1]. Permitting private enforcement of NEPA
           | [2] has been a disaster.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover_Dam
           | 
           | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Environmental_Poli
           | cy_...
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | Here's my favorite example: Plans for the Empire State
             | Building announced August 29, 1929. Construction began on
             | March 17, 1930. The building formally opened on May 1,
             | 1931.
             | 
             | No computer aided drafting, no project management software.
             | Oh, and the stock market crashed shortly after the building
             | was announced.
        
       | readthenotes1 wrote:
       | 35%+65% = 100%
        
       | jimnotgym wrote:
       | > EGYPT: 35% of the pipe works
       | 
       | The other 65% is broken!
       | 
       | Not a pathetic joke I just read it the wrong way!
        
       | sva_ wrote:
       | First of all, I believe this should be called a canal, since
       | rivers are naturally formed and canals built.
       | 
       | > Spanning a length of 114 kilometers,
       | 
       | Even the Mittelland Canal in Germany is 326km[0], so how it it
       | the largest 'manmade river' in the world?
       | 
       | 0. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelland_Canal
        
         | jascii wrote:
         | Being "naturally formed" isn't a requirement to be a river.
         | Being gravity fed and naturally flowing is. A canal doesn't
         | have significant flow.
        
           | sva_ wrote:
           | But would you really call this concrete structure you see in
           | the picture a river?
        
             | EngManagerIsMe wrote:
             | If the LA River is any historical precedent, yes.
        
             | rjbwork wrote:
             | If the LA River can be a river, why not?
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | Sounds like marketing; if they call it a canal there's longer
         | ones, if they call it a river it has its own definitions. Or
         | something.
        
       | OJFord wrote:
       | Aka a canal? Or is there some distinction being made?
        
       | thadk wrote:
       | This article I found by searching has a map:
       | https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/1/100343/10-information-t...
       | 
       | It says the schedule got sped up from 10 years to 2 years. I
       | wonder if the Ethiopian Dam scheduled for completion in the
       | coming months had anything to do with that?
       | https://www.dw.com/en/ethiopias-gerd-dam-a-potential-boon-fo...
        
         | glonq wrote:
         | From that EgyptToday article, written two years ago:
         | 
         | > it was scheduled to finish within ten years, but President
         | Abdel Fatah al Sisi directed that it should be completed within
         | two years
         | 
         | From the submitted article, written today:
         | 
         | > 35% of the pipe works and 65% of the open track have been
         | completed
         | 
         | Any bets on when it really finishes?
        
       | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
       | Are there any other sources that have more info on this project?
       | This feels like a construction puff piece. Specifically:
       | 
       | 1. A map would be nice.
       | 
       | 2. Where is the water coming from, and how is it ensured that
       | this water source is sustainable?
       | 
       | 3. A general overview of Egypt's "New Delta" project, and how
       | this is central to its goals.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | erulabs wrote:
         | Agreed - Looking forward to a B1M episode about it. I found
         | this tweet thread [1] which has a lot of interesting
         | information. Some maps make it appear to be connected to the
         | Nile, while this poster continues to say it transfers
         | "wastewater from Alexandria to western desert". Quite cool if
         | it's all wastewater, but I suspect it must be a combination of
         | Nile water and wastewater.
         | 
         | 1.
         | https://twitter.com/mahmouedgamal44/status/16332314978376622...
        
         | twelvechairs wrote:
         | Map FYI
         | 
         | https://www.egypttoday.com/siteimages/ArticleImgs/2021/3/30/...
        
       | polar wrote:
       | Not the Qattara Depression Project [1].
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qattara_Depression_Project
        
       | Apocryphon wrote:
       | Kinda neat that a country that's a successor to an ancient
       | hydraulic empire continues to carry on that civilization's legacy
       | of massive hydrological projects. Also see the Aswan Dam.
        
       | exabrial wrote:
       | Where is the fresh water coming from?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | manojr13 wrote:
         | Visited egypt recently. This project originates from upper
         | egypt's Lake Nasser (near Abu Simbel) which is a very large
         | water body.
        
         | macintux wrote:
         | Apparently treated agricultural wastewater. I would never have
         | guessed that.
         | 
         | https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/04/egypt-plans-new...
        
           | vondur wrote:
           | Nice. Pretty impressive project if they can get it going.
        
           | kseistrup wrote:
           | With an informative link to https://www.al-
           | monitor.com/originals/2020/11/egypt-build-wor...
        
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       (page generated 2023-04-24 23:00 UTC)