[HN Gopher] Egypt builds worlds largest man-made river
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Egypt builds worlds largest man-made river
Author : manojr13
Score : 87 points
Date : 2023-04-24 17:51 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.constructionweekonline.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.constructionweekonline.com)
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| The California aqueduct (444 miles, 714km) would like to have a
| word :-).
|
| Basically built for the same reason, the central valley of
| California was mostly arid but the top soil was good for
| agriculture. The underground aquifer was a limit on how much
| farming (and of what type) could be done.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| Doesn't California also contain the largest earthen dam or
| something to that extent? It's not as impressive as the Hoover
| dam or the Three Gorges dam but it's still huge from what I
| understand.
| PuffinBlue wrote:
| Largest in the US at least.
|
| Fairly recently it decided to shorten it's own spillway a bit
| though. Shortly afterwards it gained a whole lot of concrete.
|
| Juan Brown has a very comprehensive series on that
| excitement[0]
|
| [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wikin2TJ7b0&list=PL6SYmp3q
| b3...
| PicassoCTs wrote:
| [flagged]
| ninjagoo wrote:
| > The California aqueduct (444 miles, 714km) would like to
| have a word :-)
|
| >> How can a country that is barely even 300 years old, have
| such a bloated ego.What deep rooted insecurity makes it
| necessary to toot ones horn, long after all neighbors have
| gone deaf?
|
| I don't know what has caused you to lash out in that manner,
| but that was unnecessary. OP did not make a claim that the
| California aqueduct was the longest man-made river, merely
| that the aqueduct is longer than the Egyptian project, so the
| latter's claim to the longest man-made river might not be
| valid.
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| In fairness to the GP Americans from the US _are_ nominally
| assholes with their "we're the best" attitude. Although
| these days I think you would find more and more "we suck"
| attitudes especially with the hollowing out of the
| institutions and our inability to do anything about health
| care or gun related deaths. Historically this sort of
| animus is directed towards the leading economy (which may
| be China one of these days). In the past the English, the
| Dutch, and the French have dealt with this sort of thing.
|
| By and large though for _PicassoCTs_ , the framing of my
| comment was to poke fun at the editorial decision to call
| it the longest man made river, I did not, and do not, under
| appreciate the positive aspects of the project and the
| industrial and political will Egypt had to muster to create
| it. You need look no further than high speed rail, which
| the Egyptians are well on their way to building a network
| to connect the northern part of the country to the south,
| and California, a state with an economy literally 10x the
| size of Egypt's has been unable to pull off.
|
| So no, I harbor no misconceptions about the US being
| "exceptional", you can rest assured of that.
| PicassoCTs wrote:
| Im sorry then, i misinterpreted. I guess i should delete
| this rant, but then mistakes are what makes us human and
| maybe i accidentally displayed just another sort of
| hubris :D
|
| Have a pleasant day
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| There are indeed several man-made rivers longer then this so
| it's unclear what the editors were thinking with this headline.
|
| The longest one that I know of is the Grand Canal in China,
| which begain construction approx. 1400 years ago.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Canal_(China)
| dogma1138 wrote:
| Whilst it could be that the editor or author are technically
| wrong it's also quite possible that they might be technically
| correct and were just arguing semantics here.
|
| As far as geography/geology/hydrology goes rivers have a
| specific definition which the grand canal might not fit
| especially as one big system since afaik it extends and
| connects to multiple rivers and the water doesn't flow in a
| single direction into a larger body of water.
| carl_dr wrote:
| I think the distinction the authors are making - correctly
| or not, I'm not sure, plenty of rivers don't flow to the
| sea - is this artificial river flows into the sea, not into
| other canals or rivers.
|
| The grand canal connects the Yellow and Yangtze rivers, for
| example.
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| Each contiguous part of the Grand Canal only flows in one
| direction, it would be impossible for it to work otherwise.
|
| You do have a point though that this new river in Egypt may
| be the 'largest' on some other metric.
| Retric wrote:
| The issue isn't direction but rather having multiple
| branches as a river only includes channel(s) going
| downstream from a single point. Without that definition a
| river's length would be the length of every river
| connected to it.
|
| Thus the Mississippi and Ohio river are considered
| different rivers even though their waters mix and both
| flow downstream through the same channel.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_River,
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_River
| [deleted]
| oh_sigh wrote:
| Maybe it is by total volume or flow rate
| dudeinjapan wrote:
| So you're saying these Egyptians are in de nile?
| baud147258 wrote:
| I don't think a canal that's split by locks would qualify as
| a river that's running in one direction all the way
| methehack wrote:
| The Erie Canal (362.9 mi) is not as long as the California
| aqueduct nor the Grand Canal in China but it is also longer
| than the "man made river" of the article, and IT HAS A SONG,
| and a good one at that.
| dogma1138 wrote:
| This will act like a river as it does flow into the med and
| will create a new delta (hence the name).
| kpetermeni wrote:
| Libya's Great Man-Made River (1,750mi, 2,820km) [0] would like
| to have a few more words :-). [0]
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man-Made_River
| nottorp wrote:
| Let's nitpick then. It says: "According to its website, it is
| the largest underground network of pipes (2,820 kilometres
| (1,750 mi))[3] and aqueducts in the world.".
|
| It could concievably have no pipe longer than 114 km.
|
| Also if it's underground it's not a river?
| stickfigure wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subterranean_river
| Retric wrote:
| An aqueduct isn't a river. While the exact definition may seem
| vague the use of multiple pumping stations along the Californi
| aqueduct are one obvious difference.
|
| Ex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmonston_Pumping_Plant,
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dos_Amigos_Pumping_Plant, etc.
| mrwnmonm wrote:
| Egypt don't know what she should do.
| nologic01 wrote:
| Are there any prior examples of rehydrating the desert that have
| actually worked? (note: from an agricultural perspective, not as
| artificial oases turned into gambling destinations :-).
|
| The question is in relation to the quality of the soil after
| millenia of arid conditions. The Nile valley and delta are
| historically fertile due to seasonal sedimentation, but that too
| has stopped with the Aswan High Dam [1]
|
| [1]
| https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-30216-4_...
| igravious wrote:
| "China's efforts to halt the Gobi provide a blueprint for
| tackling desertification"
|
| https://www.unccd.int/news-stories/stories/chinas-efforts-ha...
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| > Are there any prior examples of rehydrating the desert that
| have actually worked?
|
| As others have noted, there are large swaths of productive
| agriculture land in California that were, and would continue to
| be, giant deserts without extensive irrigation projects.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Valley
| thekid314 wrote:
| Egypt's previous de-desertification project "Toshka" kinda of
| worked. It wasn't the massive job creator that it was sold as
| because most of the farming was very large scale and
| mechanized. But it was able to produce large amounts of high
| quality food that Egyptians rarely saw because it was more
| valuable for export.
|
| Here are some photos I shot of it for The National:
| https://www.daviddegner.com/photography/toshka/
| justrealist wrote:
| > The New Delta project is the future of Egypt. It will be
| implemented in two years," Sisi said in statements during his
| visit to the Suez Canal Authority's Maritime Training and
| Simulation Center in the canal city of Ismailia
|
| There's a LOT that Egypt does wrong that I don't want to
| replicate in the US. But the US could never get a project of this
| scale through environmental review anymore, much less in less
| than 20 years. Really quite disappointing seeing incompetent
| autocracies outperforming us at building anything larger than a
| semiconductor.
| tick_tock_tick wrote:
| I mean we build slow because of "environmental reviews" and
| regulatory capture. You'd expect autocracies to be able to
| execute quicker anyway.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _we build slow because of "environmental reviews" and
| regulatory capture. You'd expect autocracies to be able to
| execute quicker anyway._
|
| To emphasize: the Hoover Dam was authorized in 1928 and
| dedicated in '35 [1]. Permitting private enforcement of NEPA
| [2] has been a disaster.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover_Dam
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Environmental_Poli
| cy_...
| [deleted]
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Here's my favorite example: Plans for the Empire State
| Building announced August 29, 1929. Construction began on
| March 17, 1930. The building formally opened on May 1,
| 1931.
|
| No computer aided drafting, no project management software.
| Oh, and the stock market crashed shortly after the building
| was announced.
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| 35%+65% = 100%
| jimnotgym wrote:
| > EGYPT: 35% of the pipe works
|
| The other 65% is broken!
|
| Not a pathetic joke I just read it the wrong way!
| sva_ wrote:
| First of all, I believe this should be called a canal, since
| rivers are naturally formed and canals built.
|
| > Spanning a length of 114 kilometers,
|
| Even the Mittelland Canal in Germany is 326km[0], so how it it
| the largest 'manmade river' in the world?
|
| 0. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelland_Canal
| jascii wrote:
| Being "naturally formed" isn't a requirement to be a river.
| Being gravity fed and naturally flowing is. A canal doesn't
| have significant flow.
| sva_ wrote:
| But would you really call this concrete structure you see in
| the picture a river?
| EngManagerIsMe wrote:
| If the LA River is any historical precedent, yes.
| rjbwork wrote:
| If the LA River can be a river, why not?
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Sounds like marketing; if they call it a canal there's longer
| ones, if they call it a river it has its own definitions. Or
| something.
| OJFord wrote:
| Aka a canal? Or is there some distinction being made?
| thadk wrote:
| This article I found by searching has a map:
| https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/1/100343/10-information-t...
|
| It says the schedule got sped up from 10 years to 2 years. I
| wonder if the Ethiopian Dam scheduled for completion in the
| coming months had anything to do with that?
| https://www.dw.com/en/ethiopias-gerd-dam-a-potential-boon-fo...
| glonq wrote:
| From that EgyptToday article, written two years ago:
|
| > it was scheduled to finish within ten years, but President
| Abdel Fatah al Sisi directed that it should be completed within
| two years
|
| From the submitted article, written today:
|
| > 35% of the pipe works and 65% of the open track have been
| completed
|
| Any bets on when it really finishes?
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| Are there any other sources that have more info on this project?
| This feels like a construction puff piece. Specifically:
|
| 1. A map would be nice.
|
| 2. Where is the water coming from, and how is it ensured that
| this water source is sustainable?
|
| 3. A general overview of Egypt's "New Delta" project, and how
| this is central to its goals.
| [deleted]
| erulabs wrote:
| Agreed - Looking forward to a B1M episode about it. I found
| this tweet thread [1] which has a lot of interesting
| information. Some maps make it appear to be connected to the
| Nile, while this poster continues to say it transfers
| "wastewater from Alexandria to western desert". Quite cool if
| it's all wastewater, but I suspect it must be a combination of
| Nile water and wastewater.
|
| 1.
| https://twitter.com/mahmouedgamal44/status/16332314978376622...
| twelvechairs wrote:
| Map FYI
|
| https://www.egypttoday.com/siteimages/ArticleImgs/2021/3/30/...
| polar wrote:
| Not the Qattara Depression Project [1].
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qattara_Depression_Project
| Apocryphon wrote:
| Kinda neat that a country that's a successor to an ancient
| hydraulic empire continues to carry on that civilization's legacy
| of massive hydrological projects. Also see the Aswan Dam.
| exabrial wrote:
| Where is the fresh water coming from?
| [deleted]
| manojr13 wrote:
| Visited egypt recently. This project originates from upper
| egypt's Lake Nasser (near Abu Simbel) which is a very large
| water body.
| macintux wrote:
| Apparently treated agricultural wastewater. I would never have
| guessed that.
|
| https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/04/egypt-plans-new...
| vondur wrote:
| Nice. Pretty impressive project if they can get it going.
| kseistrup wrote:
| With an informative link to https://www.al-
| monitor.com/originals/2020/11/egypt-build-wor...
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