[HN Gopher] Ask HN: An OS for people who hate changes?
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       Ask HN: An OS for people who hate changes?
        
       I really don't like any changes to my OS (and software) once set
       up, unless I choose to install some change. I understand the need
       for security updates but I wish they were not bundled with
       features, i.e. how Windows 10 updates everything compared to
       Windows 7 specific update selection.  So, I migrated from Windows 7
       to Ubuntu, but now Ubuntu is down the same path where everything
       changes and breaks by itself all the time.  Where should I migrate
       next? How is Mac with updates; is security tradeoff better when
       staying on old major versions? What flavor of Linux is most like
       Ubuntu before snaps?
        
       Author : thrwwy_grump
       Score  : 29 points
       Date   : 2023-04-23 19:06 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
       | dmbche wrote:
       | I've been very happy with Manjaro. It's a just-works version of
       | Arch linux. When downloading, take the less cutring edge option,
       | and you should be fine.
       | 
       | I have not had anything break in the last year and a half, and
       | the AUR is a nice plus.
        
         | squarefoot wrote:
         | > I've been very happy with Manjaro.
         | 
         | I second that. Although I'm still a Debian guy on my main
         | machine, and use Alpine on smaller ones, I chose Manjaro on my
         | laptops, also installing it on less technical people machines
         | with great results, no problems or complaints, just the
         | occasional need to explain the few differences to new users
         | coming from Windows, but that wouldn't be the OP's case.
        
       | ipcress_file wrote:
       | Another Debian stable user. I've been using LXDE for years.
       | Nothing changes. I like it that way.
       | 
       | LXQT or XFCE would be my next choices.
        
       | haunter wrote:
       | Windows 10 LTSC is that too. Everything is removed, including the
       | MS Store, only Edge remains so it's pretty much a vanilla Windows
       | 10 version. Feature updates released every ~2 years or so (for
       | example it was 2015, 2016, 2018, 2021 so far).
       | 
       | I use it for all my Windows PCs, even for gaming.
        
         | markus_zhang wrote:
         | As individual how does one get a copy? Last time I checked it's
         | for company only.
        
           | haunter wrote:
           | Archive.org for example (and you can activate it too without
           | a problem)
           | 
           | https://archive.org/details/en-
           | us_windows_10_enterprise_ltsc...
        
       | WallyFunk wrote:
       | Try Vanilla OS:
       | 
       | https://vanillaos.org/
       | 
       | > Vanilla OS is an immutable and atomic Ubuntu-based distribution
       | that receives updates at the right time without sacrificing
       | security or functionality.
       | 
       | > Vanilla OS is an immutable operating system. Core parts of the
       | system are locked down to prevent unwanted changes or corruption
       | caused by third-party applications or faulty updates. Some paths
       | such as the home and configuration directories are still
       | writable, allowing the user to keep and modify their files and
       | application data.
       | 
       | > Core components are updated via controlled and atomic
       | transactions, which are only applied when successful and made
       | available on reboot.
       | 
       | Anecdotally I've been running Ubuntu 18 since it came out and
       | updates don't mess with my system. They're not designed to mess
       | with your system. They're mostly security patches for modular
       | pieces of the OS.
        
         | paulryanrogers wrote:
         | Ubuntu 18.04 will reach EOL in May.
        
       | toast0 wrote:
       | Mac OS _will_ move stuff and restyle stuff for no reason. It 's
       | not the answer for you. The ecosystem tends to move quickly and
       | it becomes hard to get software unless you're running an Apple
       | release less than 18 months old but also at least 2 months old.
       | 
       | Maybe try FreeBSD with Mate or a less intense wm like fvwm?
       | 
       | FreeBSD does make changes over time, but most of them aren't
       | without good reason. FreeBSD does have three firewalls, but it's
       | the same three firewalls its had for decades. Most of the time,
       | new functionality will be added to existing appropriate tools
       | rather than through tool replacement. Netstat was changed to run
       | faster, rather than replaced with a faster, but different tool.
       | Ifconfig configures network interfaces, including wifi (although
       | if wifi is important to you, tread carefully). Open Sound System
       | was fixed rather than replaced. Etc, etc.
       | 
       | The separation of base and ports/pkg means updates to ports are
       | really up to the upstream developer --- some do value stability
       | and some don't, but at least the base is pretty good.
        
       | blizarre wrote:
       | My setup: a laptop with Arch Linux that I set up 3 years ago. I
       | didn't touch the daemons/services, so it's all the basic stuff
       | auto-maintained and auto-upgraded by arch linux. It just works (I
       | only installed the services I needed).
       | 
       | But for the user facing parts, I am using my own forks of the
       | suckless tools: dwm (Windows manager), st (terminal), slock
       | (screen locking) It took me a little while to set it up to my
       | liking, but I haven't had to change anything to my workflow, it
       | just works. It's very barebone, but with vscode and a browser, I
       | have all I need.
       | 
       | And I only need to run pacman -Suy once in a while.
        
       | cjbprime wrote:
       | Ubuntu 22.04 LTS will receive security updates until April 2027.
       | 
       | (So, if you're upgrading to new Ubuntu releases every six months,
       | it sounds like that you're not following the upgrade strategy
       | that would be suggested by your requirements.)
        
         | johnea wrote:
         | I don't think any version of ubuntu meets the criteria.
         | 
         | Ubuntu has a really persistent update mechaism built in.
         | 
         | Arch derived distos would be good, updates are only when you
         | manually run them...
         | 
         | I use arch + fluxbox and I've been able to move my
         | configuration from computer to computer by simply copying my
         | home directory. When the new computer boots, I have the exact
         | same desktop environment that I prefer. It only changes when I
         | change it.
        
           | cjbprime wrote:
           | > Ubuntu has a really persistent update mechaism built in.
           | 
           | The OP doesn't object to updates, but to unexpected breaking
           | changes, where th change is caused by different design
           | decisions rather than bugs. LTS releases should not have
           | those.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | i_hate_pigeons wrote:
       | maybe try nixos? assuming you are happy to handle the conf
       | management
        
       | zenogantner wrote:
       | Maybe try Debian stable?
       | 
       | Ubuntu is based on Debian, and the releases receive mostly
       | security updates ... so this might be really something for you.
       | 
       | Also, no snaps as far as I know.
        
         | doubled112 wrote:
         | Debian Stable + XFCE would probably be my go to.
         | 
         | I've heard XFCE described as "the Debian of DEs" and I think
         | it's pretty accurate. Slow careful changes over years, but the
         | good things stay.
         | 
         | I'm not sure how Debian's LTS support works. Stable becomes
         | old-stable in 2 years. It's supported for a while longer. If it
         | is Debian and XFCE though, it's likely that the end user hardly
         | notices the upgrade.
         | 
         | I suppose RHEL based distros have a 10 year support term, and
         | could be a good choice too.
        
           | lockhouse wrote:
           | This! If you truly do not want your OS to change other than
           | bug and security fixes for 10 years it's hard to beat a RHEL
           | based distro. If you don't mind making an account for it, you
           | can even run RHEL itself for free for personal use.
           | 
           | https://developers.redhat.com/products/rhel/overview
        
             | doubled112 wrote:
             | You have to renew the RHEL developer license yearly.
             | 
             | I'm way too lazy for that, so I tend to recommend the other
             | options. The account is 100% worth access to their
             | documentation though.
             | 
             | Also, RHEL changes. They have even rebased to a new GNOME
             | release on a point release before.
        
       | morkalork wrote:
       | LTS versions are the way to go.
        
       | dadoum wrote:
       | I think Ubuntu MATE is maybe the right choice here, since it's
       | kinda its purpose.
        
       | Aaron2222 wrote:
       | To answer your question about macOS, major version updates are
       | yearly, things don't change much within the same major version,
       | and you're never forced to update by the OS. However, major
       | versions only get 2 years of limited security updates after the
       | next major version comes out, and major versions do tend to
       | change things (i.e. the major redesign in Big Sur, or the new
       | System Settings in Ventura). So probably not what you're looking
       | for.
        
       | snovymgodym wrote:
       | Tangentially, I really lament the current state of desktop OS's.
       | 
       | In a perfect world, you should be able to buy an operating system
       | that's basically Windows 7, with all the security and kernel
       | updates which have been applied to 10/11, and none of the ads,
       | telemetry, and smartphone-esque UI that modern Windows tries to
       | force on you.
        
       | ArcMex wrote:
       | It sounds like you would find benefit from Linux Mint[0]. I
       | recommend using it for a few days and seeing if it fits your
       | workflow.
       | 
       | 0 https://linuxmint.com/
        
         | jdworrells wrote:
         | Seconded. I've used Mint on and off for over a decade now. It's
         | stable and changes release to release are subtle. It's boring
         | and that's why I keep coming back to it.
        
         | brainchild-adam wrote:
         | I concur. Used to be an Ubuntu user, and for me Mint fixed
         | quite a few of the problems I started having with Ubuntu (e.g.
         | snaps). Plus, I find their defaults quite usable. If you like
         | choice, give it a go using a live system.
        
       | ofalkaed wrote:
       | I have been using slackware with ion/notion WM for about two
       | decades now and little has changed which is why I stick with it,
       | I have no interest in having to relearn my system every update.
       | In all these years I have only encountered one system change that
       | caused me any grief, when they finally gave into PulseAudio I had
       | some headaches but it was only an issue for me because I use my
       | computer for music/recording and not really that big of an issue
       | since Pulse had been out a good many years by that point and the
       | solutions were easy to find.
        
       | polotics wrote:
       | Linux with xfce is, I think, the answer you're looking for. I
       | guess Fedora on Qubes.
        
       | jmclnx wrote:
       | I would suggest Slackware, but may be a bit of work for you.
       | 
       | But if I understand you, OpenBSD may be the one. upgrades are
       | simple, install is simple (unless you _need_ GUIs) and patches
       | are simple. I never had a patch break anything.
       | 
       | To upgrade non-base (installed) software just do a "pkg_add -u"
       | once in a while. You decide when to do that. Plus docs are never
       | out of date.
       | 
       | If you go with OpenBSD you should subscribe to mail list
       | "announce@openbsd.org"
       | 
       | But you may or may not have hardware for it, if you have Nvidia
       | Graphics, you really cannot use OpenBSD.
       | 
       | good luck
        
       | loxias wrote:
       | I've been using the same debian stable setup, mostly unchanged,
       | for almost 20 years.
       | 
       | The most recent "new bullshit" I had to learn was figuring out
       | EFI/GPT enough to boot onto a new thinkpad. If you prioritize
       | stability and reliability over features, debian stable might be
       | right for you as well. :) I'd avoid any whiz bang GUI layers. I
       | have a simple window manager which runs xterms, which can then
       | run firefox and emacs.
       | 
       | The next time I imagine being forced to make a change is to move
       | to Wayland, but that's years away.
        
         | theyknowitsxmas wrote:
         | Which release? I get you'd only update sources over time?
        
       | wolfgang42 wrote:
       | It's not necessarily what I would choose, but my mom had the same
       | problem and after a lot of research decided on OpenBSD, plus
       | classic X utilities (xv, xpdf, gvim, xterm, etc). It's something
       | of a learning curve, but they all change _very_ slowly and are
       | big on backwards compatibility, so once you figure out how things
       | work and get them set up for your needs it'll probably keep
       | working that way for a long time to come.
        
       | costco wrote:
       | Debian Stable with just a window manager (like cwm), xbindkeys,
       | and maybe a shortcut to a program like rofi to open a run menu
       | for programs not used frequently enough to justify a shortcut.
       | You memorize all the keyboard shortcuts once and they will never
       | change on you.
        
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       (page generated 2023-04-23 23:02 UTC)