[HN Gopher] Tesla's California market share tumbles despite aggr...
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       Tesla's California market share tumbles despite aggressive price
       cuts
        
       Author : MilnerRoute
       Score  : 20 points
       Date   : 2023-04-22 18:14 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
        
       | mullingitover wrote:
       | As the saying goes, "Concerning."
       | 
       | It's almost as if Tesla is being managed by an executive who is
       | distracted, only working the job part time, at a moment when
       | competitors are deeply engaged and laser-focused.
       | 
       | If a junior officer of the company were found to be moonlighting
       | at several other jobs while drawing a full-time salary, they'd be
       | fired on the spot.
        
       | bsder wrote:
       | Is it just that competitors exist?
       | 
       | At this point, the Model 3 is competing against the Chevy Bolt
       | which is at least $10,000 cheaper.
       | 
       | To buy a Tesla, you have to genuinely want a _Tesla_ at this
       | point rather than just an electric car.
        
         | dxxvi wrote:
         | Model 3 and Chevy Bolt comparison:
         | https://www.motortrend.com/features/tesla-model-3-chevrolet-...
        
         | ivraatiems wrote:
         | This is the actual reason. It has nothing, or almost nothing,
         | to do with Elon Musk or politics. The average person, the
         | average Californian, even the average EV buyer is not doing it
         | to make a political statement.
         | 
         | There are so many more options now than Teslas out there which
         | provide quality and affordability. And there are used EVs on
         | the market now that are viable, when there weren't before,
         | including used Teslas.
         | 
         | Yes, there are people (like me) who would never buy a Tesla
         | because they don't trust the company or don't like Musk, but
         | we're a severe minority. The reality is that Tesla is becoming
         | less special simply because the rest of the industry is
         | catching up - as Tesla should have known, and probably does
         | know, that it would. The question is what they do about it.
        
         | MBCook wrote:
         | This is _why_ they're cutting prices. You're dead on.
         | 
         | They finally have real competition and they're having trouble
         | due to weaknesses (even if only perceived) like lack of
         | CarPlay/Android Auto, quality issues, service issues, simple
         | brand loyalty, and being heavily associated with someone many
         | consider toxic. They're losing their big advantage of being
         | "the" electric car. People are now aware of other options.
         | 
         | If Tesla was as unassailable as some fans claim, they wouldn't
         | need to cut prices. They could continue to charge the same
         | amount and maintain market share, using the profits to improve
         | things or produce more.
         | 
         | The price cuts signal they're in real competition. Good. That
         | will improve everyone.
        
       | slaw wrote:
       | Model 3 is twice expensive as equivalent ICE car. I think market
       | for small and expensive sedans is saturated. The same for model
       | Y.
        
         | electrondood wrote:
         | False, it's actually slightly cheaper than a new Camry.
         | 
         | That's base price, and doesn't even account for significantly
         | lower cost of ownership.
        
           | slaw wrote:
           | Camry is in different class. You should compare Tesla model
           | 3, MSRP $39.9k to Toyota Corolla, MSRP $21.5k
           | 
           | https://www.edmunds.com/car-
           | comparisons/?veh1=401884809&veh2...
        
           | greedo wrote:
           | Please don't post easily refutable lies.
           | 
           | Camry MSRP is $26,220 Model Y is $46,990
           | 
           | I would give you the benefit of the doubt that perhaps you're
           | not using US prices and Camry's might be 76% more expensive
           | where you live, but I doubt it.
        
             | xur17 wrote:
             | Shouldn't you be comparing to the model 3, which has a base
             | price of 39k?
        
             | thorncorona wrote:
             | Last time I went to the dealership they were asking 27K for
             | a 2020 Camry and mentioned they had no new inventory in
             | stock and everything was 5K over msrp minimum.
             | 
             | TM3 base model for me came out to about 35K w/ tax credits.
             | 
             | If you include how much you save in gas it checks out.
        
         | princevegeta89 wrote:
         | Isn't model Y also 1.5 times more expensive compared to its
         | equivalent competitors like the Ford EV SUV and Id4?
        
           | HereBeBeasties wrote:
           | I don't know about the US, but here in the UK an ID.4 GTX is
           | PS55k if you want a heat pump and not in flat primer grey.
           | 
           | A Model Y long range which is faster (by 1.4s to 60mph) and
           | has better range is PS2k cheaper.
        
       | electrondood wrote:
       | Market share is irrelevant. Tesla makes more in margin per car
       | than their next 8 competitors _combined_.
       | 
       | Recall that Apple took 35% of the profit in the smart phone
       | market with only 7% market share.
       | 
       | Also, Tesla's target market is not EVs. Their entire mission is
       | to lose market share, by encouraging competition to transition to
       | sustainable energy. Tesla's target market for their vehicle
       | business is all vehicles.
        
         | TheLoafOfBread wrote:
         | Are they? Since the last earnings margin went way down
        
         | bagacrap wrote:
         | Margins are crumbling and now the story is that they'll make it
         | back by selling fsd.
         | 
         | On top of that, all the insane valuations assume both of the
         | things (high market share of EVs and high penetration of EVs
         | across car market).
         | 
         | Anyway you already knew that.
        
       | malermeister wrote:
       | Buying a Tesla used to be an effective way of liberal virtue
       | signaling for the much-despised "coastal elites".
       | 
       | Now that Elon has gone fully mask-off, it might as well be the
       | Trumpmobile.
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | I also wonder if the price cuts are a reaction to market
         | saturation. They as common as Camrys in mid- and higher-income
         | areas in California.
        
           | decafninja wrote:
           | Aren't they literally nicknamed the California Camry?
        
             | CharlesW wrote:
             | I hadn't heard it before, but it's perfect and I'll use it
             | henceforth!
        
         | seanmcdirmid wrote:
         | Teslas are just fun to drive, I don't think most people buy
         | them to signal virtue, if they want to do that there is always
         | the much cheaper Prius instead.
         | 
         | I don't think most Tesla buyers also care much about Musk. The
         | more likely answer is that Tesla went through a huge sales boom
         | the last couple of years and that's sort of done now, anyone
         | who wanted a Tesla over that period has one now, and now people
         | are watching their money more carefully.
        
           | beoberha wrote:
           | I completely agree with you. In Southern California, you see
           | people all across the political spectrum driving Teslas. As
           | more options emerge, I don't think it's too crazy to see
           | their market share go down.
        
             | seanmcdirmid wrote:
             | Ya. I bought a BMW i4 instead due to the better interior.
             | Although I'm missing Tesla's better software experience.
        
           | thunky wrote:
           | When I see a Prius I think the driver probably has common
           | sense and value's their money over their public image. When I
           | see a Tesla I think the opposite.
        
             | seanmcdirmid wrote:
             | Are you sure you aren't just imagining things about Tesla
             | vs what is really true? When I see a Tesla, I think techie,
             | likely Indian or Chinese, but thats just my own local
             | profile of Tesla drivers in my region.
             | 
             | When I see Prius, I think either ecological grandma or Uber
             | driver. Again, just a sample from my local region, it might
             | not hold for other parts of the country.
        
               | thunky wrote:
               | Yeah I'm sure I am being unfair to Tesla owners. I see
               | them as "dumb techies". Probably getting a fat paycheck
               | they don't really deserve, thinking they're smarter than
               | everyone else and their choice of car proves it.
               | 
               | I know it's wrong.
        
               | HereBeBeasties wrote:
               | That's quite a lot of projection. I bought a Model 3
               | because it felt objectively better / better value than
               | everything else on the market at the time, having, you
               | know, actually test driven pretty much everything. (Kia
               | EV6, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia e-Niro, Jaguar I-PACE, Porsche
               | Taycan even).
               | 
               | Techies might (gross generalisation warning) tend to: a)
               | Have higher than average disposable income b) Be early
               | adopters of new tech c) Care less what other people think
               | of them than an average person d) Judge things more
               | objectively than an average person.
               | 
               | So it's hardly surprising a lot of them end up buying a
               | Tesla Model 3. They are very well-packaged, fast, have
               | good range, the Supercharger network, and are fairly mid-
               | priced as cars these days go (similar to say a slower BMW
               | 3 series diesel, at least in the UK).
               | 
               | The BMW i4 launched recently. The Tesla Model 3 is a six
               | year old design. And yet the i4 has much worse range, is
               | either slower or much more expensive, and according to
               | all the critics seems to be less fun to drive.
               | 
               | Heaven forfend that anyone buy a car on its merits, as
               | opposed to what other people think of the badge.
        
         | iancmceachern wrote:
         | It was that way a couple years ago, now most progressives I
         | know wouldn't be caught dead in a Tesla, exactly because of
         | Musks right wing egomaniac behavior. You are a few years late
         | with this comment
        
           | malermeister wrote:
           | I think the Twitter purchase made it impossible to ignore his
           | BS.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Avshalom wrote:
         | Probably not, I hate Elon more than most people, but like
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Passat#Sales (U.S.
         | column) a lot of cars just see demand fall off a cliff when all
         | they see is small refreshes over a decade. There's talk of
         | Tesla being in the process of a full updates to various lines
         | and until that (does|does not) happen it's probably a bit
         | premature to chalk anything up to Tesla's cultural positioning
         | (after all, unless (like me) you're a terminally online twitter
         | user Musk's politics are probably completely unknown to you)
        
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       (page generated 2023-04-22 23:02 UTC)