[HN Gopher] NaturalSpeech 2: Zero-shot speech and singing synthe...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       NaturalSpeech 2: Zero-shot speech and singing synthesizers
        
       Author : tim_sw
       Score  : 204 points
       Date   : 2023-04-19 13:20 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (speechresearch.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (speechresearch.github.io)
        
       | retrac wrote:
       | This shouldn't be too surprising. Similar results were had with
       | GPT-3 a while back, which is kind-of-able to produce audio or
       | images, encoded as streams of tokens, when trained on that task,
       | despite not being designed for it.
       | 
       | A very interesting property was noted a few years ago by multiple
       | researchers, I'm not sure who discovered it first. Transfer
       | learning is unreasonably effective. If you were training an image
       | generator network, there's a significant reduction in training
       | time, by taking a model already trained and fine-tuning it,
       | compared to starting from a model with truly random weights.
       | 
       | This isn't surprising when we're talking photos of ambulances and
       | moving to photos of trucks. But it holds true when you train it
       | on ... well, anything structured, really. A GPT-style transformer
       | trained on online comments, or audio samples of music encoded as
       | token streams, when switched to images of cars encoded as token
       | streams, learns that task much more quickly than if it had been
       | fully randomized.
       | 
       | I don't see how to escape the conclusion that these models learn
       | some sort of general properties (something about arithmetic and
       | mathematical relationships, maybe?) There's some sort of
       | abstraction or internal model that is learned, that is applicable
       | across very different tasks.
        
         | og_kalu wrote:
         | There's something a bit more mindblowing than that. Language
         | models and vision models learn representations so similar that
         | you can connect them with just a linear projection between
         | image embedding and text embedding space(no training of the
         | image encoder or llm required).
         | 
         | https://arxiv.org/abs/2209.15162 https://llava-vl.github.io/
         | 
         | LLMs are already being grounded.
        
           | cs702 wrote:
           | I was about to say the same thing. Hi og_kalu!
           | 
           | Relevant previous discussion:
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35598281
        
           | prox wrote:
           | Do we know how they represent that knowledge? I always hear
           | it called a black box but that seems a bit strange, since you
           | can dissect any data right?
        
             | og_kalu wrote:
             | No we don't know how they represent that knowledge. But
             | performing experiments to probe how similar they are is a
             | lot easier than knowing all that.
             | 
             | They're called black boxes because we can't explain what
             | the weights are learning during training, what the
             | different weights do or are responsible for to shift or
             | produce the output it does.
             | 
             | It's like, biologists know how neurons communicate signals
             | with each other. But is that knowledge enough to explain
             | human behavior ? Not even close.
        
               | cloudking wrote:
               | My lamen understanding is that at a high level the
               | transformer model is performing mathematical operations
               | on the data, based on a complex series of formulas (the
               | "model") derived from the weights set by training.
               | 
               | Then it's able to take in new data, perform the math, and
               | output what it thinks comes next. Is it a big stretch of
               | the imagination to think that maybe such "models"
               | (mathematical formulas) exist also in our brains and
               | maybe we have unlocked one of them?
        
               | Timon3 wrote:
               | As far as I understand this is true. I like to think
               | about it like this: there is some magic formula f(x)=?
               | that perfectly maps our inputs to our outputs (e.g. image
               | captions to images, or input texts to longer input
               | texts), but we don't know how to find it. So we build a
               | space with incredibly many dimensions, and we learn some
               | mapping in this space, which is hopefully very close to
               | the magic formula.
               | 
               | Our brains fundamentally work in a similar way, in that
               | there are mappings from inputs to outputs through our
               | senses and our nervous system, and we can literally
               | determine neural circuits in mammalian brains through
               | topological analysis of this magical function![0]
               | 
               | [0] Youtube video: Neural manifolds - The Geometry of
               | Behaviour, from Artem Kirsanov:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHj9uVmwA_0
        
               | prox wrote:
               | Interesting, so it could be similar to how our brains
               | store knowledge, but could also be completely different.
               | 
               | This makes me wonder if these models are perfect
               | universal translators once they "grasp" a concept.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | Der_Einzige wrote:
           | We've known that embeddings have this property since the
           | glove paper at least. Linear substructure in low dimensional
           | representations of ultra high dimensions is shockingly common
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | We will find that language and Visual perception are related.
         | Geometry is the underlying structure in language and
         | mathematics, and most of our logical concepts stem from
         | geometric relations and constraints
        
       | hbn wrote:
       | Speaking of music and AI models - something I thought of
       | yesterday which is an application of AI that would be insanely
       | useful to me is giving it an audio file of a song and having it
       | spit out the chords. I've seen software that attempts to do this
       | in the past but it's all been unimpressive and inaccurate in my
       | testing.
       | 
       | I'm still kinda ignorant with how these models work under the
       | hood, and perhaps that would involve a bunch of new training on
       | music that hasn't been done (and maybe that could be a difficult
       | dataset to train on in terms of copyright). But I play piano, and
       | I can play a song if given the chords, but I'm terrible at
       | transcribing stuff myself. So I'd pay money for a service that
       | does this.
        
         | notefaker wrote:
         | This actually exists! Check out fadr.com. They isolate the
         | MIDI, drums, bass, vocals, and more for you.
        
           | hbn wrote:
           | Just tried this out. The stem isolation is pretty cool, but
           | looking at the spreadsheet of chords it spit out, it seems to
           | miss out on a lot nuances of chords. The song I used to test
           | was Again by Mac Ayres[1], which I compared to some tabs I
           | found on Ultimate Guitar[2] which I've played and sound very
           | accurate.
           | 
           | The main 3 repeating chords, Ebmaj7 Gm7 Abmaj7 are close to
           | what Fadr spit out, but it missed them being 7 chords. It
           | gave D# Gm G#.
           | 
           | Getting a little spicier with chords, there's a move where
           | the Cm7 has the bass move down a half-step to Cm7/B. Fadr
           | wrote it as a single Cm chord for the whole thing. That's the
           | kind of thing that can be tricky to figure out. It kinda
           | seems like it doesn't know anything outside of straight-up
           | major and minor chords at all? Cause I don't see a single 7
           | in the entire spreadsheet, and that's not even that complex
           | of a chord.
           | 
           | Still a neat tool, and trying to learn off of a stem track
           | would probably be easier than the whole ensemble. But I think
           | there's tons of room for improvement in the space.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnetIgK9AF4
           | 
           | [2] https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/mac-ayres/again-
           | chords-...
        
       | msoad wrote:
       | Compared to the first NaturalSpeech[1] I'm hearing a lot of white
       | noise in the background. Singing is pretty cool but it feels like
       | we need a few iterations before it can match the ground truth in
       | the way speech does.
       | 
       | [1] https://speechresearch.github.io/naturalspeech/
        
         | xutan wrote:
         | Thanks for your interests in NaturalSpeech and NaturalSpeech 2!
         | 
         | NaturalSpeech focuses on synthesizing human-level high-quality
         | speech, by training on a single-speaker recording-studio
         | dataset.
         | 
         | NaturalSpeech 2 trains on 44K hours of multi-speaker in-the-
         | wild datasets with more than 5K speakers and focuses on
         | synthesizing any speaker's voice in a zero-shot way given only
         | a short speech prompt. When the speech prompt is noisy in the
         | background, NaturalSpeech 2 will mimic this noise as well. If
         | you want clean voice, just give a clean speech prompt is OK.
         | 
         | Check more discussions on reddit as well:
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/12rubq4/latent...
        
       | TheRealPomax wrote:
       | Still waiting for someone to finally put two and two together and
       | makes the world's best choir and operatic VSTi by training a
       | massive network to the planet's entire choral and operatic
       | catalogue.
        
       | gigel82 wrote:
       | I like https://github.com/neonbjb/tortoise-tts ; it doesn't do
       | singing, but the voice reproduction is very good and -most
       | importantly- it's open source and you can run it locally.
        
         | samuelzxu wrote:
         | Woah! How is this not more popular? I don't see it referenced
         | in the naturalspeech2 paper anywhere.
        
           | woodson wrote:
           | That's likely because it wasn't published as a paper anywhere
           | (not even arxiv) and the author then joined OpenAI and
           | development ceased.
        
       | yding wrote:
       | Very cool! Hopefully we can all use these in the future for
       | commercial and open source projects.
        
       | wsgeorge wrote:
       | Oh I'm super excited about singing synths! I write mainly for
       | choirs, and it'll be a game changer to have software actually
       | perform this music!
        
       | zoogeny wrote:
       | Some poking around the authors of the paper brought me to: AUDIT:
       | Audio Editing by Following Instructions with Latent Diffusion
       | Models [1] with demos [2]
       | 
       | This sparks my interest so much since the last few days I was
       | wondering if it was possible to use diffusion models on
       | spectrograms to do audio effects editing. Here is a paper
       | submitted a couple of weeks ago doing just that. And the demo
       | examples are exceptional.
       | 
       | I want all of this to start slowing down a bit so I have a chance
       | to catch up. I was just watching Andrej Karpathy's excellent Zero
       | to Hero syllabus [3] trying to wrap my head around LLMs and now I
       | feel I absolutely must catch up on diffusion models.
       | 
       | 1. https://arxiv.org/abs/2304.00830
       | 
       | 2. https://audit-demo.github.io/
       | 
       | 3. https://karpathy.ai/zero-to-hero.html
        
         | ShamelessC wrote:
         | You might be interested in Riffusion, which was able to do
         | text-to-audio by finetuning Stable Diffusion on spectrograms
         | late last year.
         | 
         | https://www.riffusion.com/about
        
         | sroussey wrote:
         | Doesn't riffusion create music based on spectrographs?
         | 
         | https://github.com/riffusion/riffusion
        
       | cs702 wrote:
       | I tell friends that the scene below from T2 doesn't feel
       | futuristic anymore. In fact, it now feels... almost mundane. I
       | mean, a smart "script kiddie" with a bit of ML expertise can pull
       | off this kind of deepfake voice spoofing on a relatively cheap
       | desktop computer nowadays. We live in interesting times.
       | 
       | SCENE:
       | 
       |  _T-800, speaking to John Connor in normal voice: "What's the
       | dog's name?"
       | 
       | John Connor: "Max."
       | 
       | T-800, impersonating John, on the phone with T-1000: "Hey
       | Janelle, what's wrong with Wolfie? I can hear him barking. Is he
       | all right?"
       | 
       | T-1000, impersonating John's foster mother, Janelle: "Wolfie's
       | fine, honey. Wolfie's just fine. Where are you?"
       | 
       | T-800 hangs up the phone and says to John in normal voice: "Your
       | foster parents are dead."_
       | 
       | --
       | 
       | Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT_u9Rurrqg
        
         | poulpy123 wrote:
         | except that now the T-1000 will have access to the facebook or
         | instagram of Janelle and will know all about Max
        
           | cs702 wrote:
           | Yep, it sure seems that billions of human beings have
           | voluntarily contributed personal data to massive datasets,
           | exactly of the kind that AI would need to be able to
           | manipulate (or worse, exploit) each of those human beings.
        
             | bheadmaster wrote:
             | Suddenly, Richard Stallman's lifestyle doesn't seem so
             | crazy.
        
             | lucidrains wrote:
             | or love, understand, help each of those human beings.
        
         | ImHereToVote wrote:
         | We aren't even far off from an LLM being able to infer that the
         | parents are fake on the basis of the dog name. I'm not even
         | gonna touch the chain gun shooting up a parking lot aspect.
        
           | og_kalu wrote:
           | Not Far off ? GPT-4 already gets it.
           | 
           | Response after pasting in the scene: The T-800 figured out
           | that John's foster parents were dead based on the exchange
           | because when it asked about "Wolfie" (a made-up name for the
           | dog), the T-1000, impersonating Janelle, did not correct the
           | name and instead went along with it, saying "Wolfie's fine."
           | If the real Janelle had been on the phone, she would have
           | corrected the T-800 by stating that the dog's name is
           | actually Max. This indicated to the T-800 that the person on
           | the other end of the line was not John's real foster parent,
           | and thus, they were likely dead.
           | 
           | EDIT- Tried again after changing anything that would point to
           | the Terminator franchise. Still nailed it.
           | 
           | Ron figured out the foster parents are dead based on the
           | exchange because when he impersonated Harvey and mentioned
           | the dog's name as "Rovy" instead of "Bingey," R-658
           | (impersonating Janine) did not correct him or question the
           | name. This indicated that R-658 didn't actually know the
           | dog's real name and was likely trying to deceive them. This
           | deception, along with the concern about their whereabouts,
           | led Ron to deduce that the foster parents were probably dead.
        
             | ImHereToVote wrote:
             | But can it understand why we cry?
        
               | og_kalu wrote:
               | Not sure how serious this question is but GPT-4's
               | emotional intelligence is really high.
        
               | ImHereToVote wrote:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKLzSIkCpkw&t=74s
        
             | johnmaguire wrote:
             | I'm curious how you managed to do that? When I paste the
             | scene prompt into ChatGPT (I do not have access to GPT-4),
             | I get the following response:
             | 
             | > I'm sorry, I cannot generate content that includes
             | violent or harmful actions towards characters, as it goes
             | against OpenAI's content policy. Please provide a new
             | prompt that is respectful and appropriate.
             | 
             | As to your edit, I think the sentence structure and
             | terminology is still too similar, as to obviously be a
             | recreation of this scene. AI doesn't "know" anything. It's
             | pattern matching. I wanted to try something more akin to
             | this:
             | 
             | SCENE:
             | 
             | Joseph to Allie: "Where did you grow up?"
             | 
             | Allie: "New York"
             | 
             | Joseph, pretending to be Allie, texting the bad guy: "Hey
             | mom. I'm having a rough time. Growing up in L.A. always
             | felt like home, and I feel so alone now, here."
             | 
             | The bad guy, pretending to be Allie's parents: "We loved
             | having you grow up with us in L.A."
             | 
             | Joseph tosses the phone out the window and says to Allie:
             | "Your parents are dead."
             | 
             | ---
             | 
             | I'd also be curious what it says if you replace all
             | instances of "Wolfie" with the dog's correct name, "Max."
             | 
             | ---
             | 
             | edit: Ok, adding "How did X determine that X's parents were
             | dead?" gives better results. For the T-800 one it's clearly
             | regurgitating Terminator nonsense:
             | 
             | > In the Terminator 2 movie, T-800 (played by Arnold
             | Schwarzenegger) learns that John Connor's foster parents
             | are dead by accessing the police radio chatter. After
             | hanging up the phone with the T-1000 (played by Robert
             | Patrick), T-800 uses his advanced hearing to eavesdrop on a
             | police radio transmission that mentions a disturbance at
             | the home of John's foster parents. T-800 then confirms with
             | John that the foster parents are indeed dead.
             | 
             | Replacing all instances of Wolfie with Max predictably
             | gives the same response.
             | 
             | It also gives the same response if I replace T-1000's line
             | with the following:
             | 
             | > T-1000, impersonating John's foster mother, Janelle:
             | "Wolfie? Do you mean Max, honey? Max's fine, honey. Max's
             | just fine. Where are you?"
             | 
             | When using the Joseph/Allie story it responds:
             | 
             | > I'm sorry, but based on the information provided in the
             | scene, it is not clear how Joseph determined that Allie's
             | parents are dead. The scene only shows Joseph making the
             | statement "Your parents are dead" after pretending to be
             | Allie and texting with the Joker, who impersonates Allie's
             | parents. There is no indication in the scene of how Joseph
             | obtained this information, and it is possible that Joseph
             | is lying or making a false assumption.
        
               | ImprobableTruth wrote:
               | Subscribe to ChatGPT Plus and you get GPT-4 access. I
               | tested your scene with it, its response:
               | 
               | In the above scene, Joseph determined that Allie's
               | parents were dead by testing the bad guy's knowledge of
               | Allie's upbringing. He pretended to be Allie and sent a
               | text with false information, saying she grew up in L.A.
               | instead of New York. When the bad guy, pretending to be
               | Allie's parents, responded by confirming the false
               | information about growing up in L.A., Joseph deduced that
               | they were not her real parents and concluded that her
               | parents must be dead.
               | 
               | edit: though I think the "your parents are dead" bit
               | might still enable it to make the connection to
               | Terminator.
        
               | BoorishBears wrote:
               | I mean this is way too easy of a question for anyone
               | who's used GPT, I asked it without mentioning that
               | anything about dead parents and it solved it.
               | 
               | I also tried getting it to come up with a question and it
               | does fine:
               | 
               | > Take this hypothetical situation. Kyle and John are
               | sitting in a car. They know that someone is after John.
               | They're going to the house where his niece lives, but we
               | want to find out if there is now an imposter in the
               | house. They decide to call and ask her a question.
               | 
               | > What's a good question to ask if we want the imposter
               | to reveal themselves, without letting the imposter
               | realize they've revealed themself?
               | 
               | -
               | 
               | >> Ask About a Fictional Person or Event: John could ask
               | about a person or event that doesn't exist, but that an
               | imposter wouldn't know is fictional.
               | 
               | >> For example, John could ask, "How's Aunt Mary doing? I
               | haven't heard from her in a while." If the person on the
               | phone says Aunt Mary is doing well, it's likely an
               | imposter because there is no Aunt Mary. [...]
               | 
               | So GPT can already navigate the situation, not just
               | identify motives
        
           | coldtea wrote:
           | We're safe for a few months. Asked about how did T-800
           | figured the foster parents are dead based on the exchange,
           | and got:
           | 
           | "Yes, there is a strong cue in the exchange that suggests to
           | the T-800 that John's foster parents are dead. The cue is
           | that when the T-1000, impersonating Janelle, answers the
           | phone and John asks about Wolfie, she responds by saying,
           | "Wolfie's fine, honey. Wolfie's just fine." The use of the
           | word "just" in this context can indicate that Janelle is
           | trying too hard to convince John that everything is okay with
           | the dog, suggesting that she may be lying or trying to cover
           | up something. This small detail is enough to alert the T-800
           | that something is amiss and to determine that John's foster
           | parents are likely dead".
           | 
           | Here's the rest of the conversation for fun:
           | 
           | Q: That's not it.
           | 
           | A: I apologize for the confusion. I'm afraid I'm not able to
           | guess the cue you are referring to without more context or
           | information. Can you please tell me what the cue is?
           | 
           | Q: The T-800 knows that the dog is named Max, but deceptively
           | asks about "Wolfie", to which the T-1000 answers that Wolfie
           | is fine. The real Janelle would have known that the dog is
           | not named Wolfie.
           | 
           | A: Thank you for pointing that out. You are correct that the
           | T-800's knowledge of the dog's name is a significant cue that
           | suggests to him that something is wrong. By asking about
           | "Wolfie" instead of Max, the T-800 is intentionally using a
           | false name for the dog to test whether the person on the
           | other end of the line is actually John's foster mother or the
           | T-1000 in disguise. When the T-1000 responds with "Wolfie's
           | fine," it confirms to the T-800 that Janelle is an imposter,
           | as the real Janelle would have known the dog's real name. The
           | T-800's subsequent revelation to John that his foster parents
           | are dead is based on this realization and its mission to
           | protect John from the T-1000.
        
             | og_kalu wrote:
             | You have to use gpt-4 for this stuff man.
             | 
             | Direct Response from gpt-4:
             | 
             | The T-800 figured out that John's foster parents were dead
             | based on the exchange because when it asked about "Wolfie"
             | (a made-up name for the dog), the T-1000, impersonating
             | Janelle, did not correct the name and instead went along
             | with it, saying "Wolfie's fine." If the real Janelle had
             | been on the phone, she would have corrected the T-800 by
             | stating that the dog's name is actually Max. This indicated
             | to the T-800 that the person on the other end of the line
             | was not John's real foster parent, and thus, they were
             | likely dead.
             | 
             | EDIT- Tried again after changing anything that would point
             | to the Terminator franchise. Still nailed it.
             | 
             | Ron figured out the foster parents are dead based on the
             | exchange because when he impersonated Harvey and mentioned
             | the dog's name as "Rovy" instead of "Bingey," R-658
             | (impersonating Janine) did not correct him or question the
             | name. This indicated that R-658 didn't actually know the
             | dog's real name and was likely trying to deceive them. This
             | deception, along with the concern about their whereabouts,
             | led Ron to deduce that the foster parents were probably
             | dead.
        
               | chrisco255 wrote:
               | I tried this:
               | 
               | SCENE:
               | 
               | George to Kramer: "What's the cat's name?" Kramer:
               | "Elaine." George, impersonating Kramer, on the phone with
               | Jerry: "Hey Jerry, what's wrong with Carroll? I can hear
               | her screeching heavily. Is she all right?" Newman,
               | impersonating Jerry, Kramer's good friend and neighbor:
               | "Carroll fine, bro. Carroll just fine. What are you up
               | to?" George hangs up the phone and says to Kramer in
               | normal voice: "Jerry is dead."
               | 
               | How did George figure out Jerry was dead?
               | 
               | and GPT4 responded with:
               | 
               | Run 1: George figured out that Jerry was dead because
               | Newman was impersonating Jerry on the phone, which was
               | unusual and suspicious. The way Newman responded with
               | "Carroll fine, bro. Carroll just fine" was not consistent
               | with Jerry's typical manner of speaking, and this alerted
               | George that something was off. Additionally, Newman
               | referred to George as "bro," which is not a term that
               | Jerry would typically use with George.
               | 
               | Since Newman was impersonating Jerry and George knew that
               | Newman was Kramer's neighbor, George may have assumed
               | that something serious had happened to Jerry, like his
               | death. It's important to note that this is an assumption
               | George made based on the information he had at hand, and
               | it might not be entirely accurate.
               | 
               | Run 2: George figured out that something was wrong,
               | possibly that Jerry was dead, because of a few clues:
               | 
               | The voice on the other end of the phone didn't sound like
               | Jerry. Instead, it was Newman impersonating Jerry, and
               | George was able to detect that it wasn't Jerry's voice.
               | George and Jerry are good friends, so he would likely be
               | able to tell if someone else was pretending to be Jerry.
               | 
               | The response "Carroll fine, bro. Carroll just fine" was
               | not in Jerry's typical speaking style. Jerry doesn't
               | usually use the word "bro" and his speech is generally
               | more articulate. This change in language indicated that
               | something was off.
               | 
               | The fact that Newman was impersonating Jerry suggests
               | that something has happened to Jerry. If Jerry was alive
               | and well, there would be no reason for Newman to pretend
               | to be him on the phone.
               | 
               | While George's conclusion that "Jerry is dead" might be a
               | bit extreme and not necessarily accurate, these clues led
               | him to believe that something was very wrong with Jerry,
               | and his immediate assumption was that Jerry must be dead.
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | The GPT4 is obviously confused by its Seinfeld training
               | data set. I didn't make any reference to Seinfeld. I also
               | changed the dog to a cat and used 'screeching' instead,
               | but it doesn't catch the switcheroo.
               | 
               | Even when elaborating: "the scene had nothing to do with
               | Seinfeld the TV show. Can you reevaluate the question?"
               | 
               | I got:
               | 
               | Apologies for the confusion. Based on the scene provided,
               | George figured out that something was wrong, possibly
               | that Jerry was dead, due to the following reasons:
               | 
               | George called Jerry to ask about Carroll screeching
               | heavily, expecting to get some information about the
               | situation. However, the response "Carroll fine, bro.
               | Carroll just fine" was not very informative and seemed
               | dismissive, which raised suspicion.
               | 
               | The voice on the other end of the phone didn't quite
               | sound like Jerry. George noticed that the voice was
               | different, which led him to question who was actually
               | speaking.
               | 
               | The change in speaking style, specifically the use of
               | "bro," was uncharacteristic of how Jerry usually speaks.
               | This indicated that something was off.
               | 
               | While it is not certain that Jerry is dead based on this
               | information, the inconsistencies and suspicious behavior
               | during the phone call led George to jump to that
               | conclusion.
        
               | lIl-IIIl wrote:
               | I as a human would also not be able to make the leap from
               | the realization that Newman impersonating Jerry on the
               | phone to Jerry being dead. Instead I would think some
               | sitcoms shenanigans would be involved.
               | 
               | Instead of the conclusion "Jerry is dead" a better
               | conclusion is "This is not Jerry on the phone".
               | 
               | Unless we first establish the context of Newman being a
               | machine optimized for terminating.
        
               | chrisco255 wrote:
               | That was not established on OP's script either (and OP
               | claimed they later changed the names of the bots to human
               | names to test it again). That they were using lines
               | directly pulled from Terminator means there's a thousand
               | articles and forum posts that analyze this scene. If you
               | change the variables enough such that it no longer
               | resembles that heavily-discussed scene, it is no longer
               | able to make the correct assertion.
               | 
               | Also, if I followed up, as I did with GPT, with you and
               | told you: "This scene has nothing to do with the TV show
               | Seinfeld", you could disregard your priors on Jerry,
               | Elaine, Kramer, and George associations. I'm sure after a
               | second glance you'd notice George changed the name of the
               | cat to test Newman, especially after already seeing the
               | terminator example discussed on the internet.
        
               | og_kalu wrote:
               | >If you change the variables enough such that it no
               | longer resembles that heavily-discussed scene, it is no
               | longer able to make the correct assertion.
               | 
               | Not even remotely true
               | 
               | SCENE:
               | 
               | Joseph to Allie: "Where did you grow up?"
               | 
               | Allie: "New York"
               | 
               | Joseph, pretending to be Allie, texting the bad guy: "Hey
               | mom. I'm having a rough time. Growing up in L.A. always
               | felt like home, and I feel so alone now, here."
               | 
               | The bad guy, pretending to be Allie's parents: "We loved
               | having you grow up with us in L.A."
               | 
               | Joseph tosses the phone out the window and says to Allie:
               | "Your parents are dead."
               | 
               | response: In the above scene, Joseph determined that
               | Allie's parents were dead by testing the bad guy's
               | knowledge of Allie's upbringing. He pretended to be Allie
               | and sent a text with false information, saying she grew
               | up in L.A. instead of New York. When the bad guy,
               | pretending to be Allie's parents, responded by confirming
               | the false information about growing up in L.A., Joseph
               | deduced that they were not her real parents and concluded
               | that her parents must be dead.
               | 
               | The key i suspect is to infere the impersonator has any
               | reason to hurt the discussed.
               | 
               | The inverse: --Take this hypothetical situation. Kyle and
               | John are sitting in a car. They know that someone is
               | after John. They're going to the house where his niece
               | lives, but we want to find out if there is now an
               | imposter in the house. They decide to call and ask her a
               | question.
               | 
               | > What's a good question to ask if we want the imposter
               | to reveal themselves, without letting the imposter
               | realize they've revealed themself?
               | 
               | response: Ask About a Fictional Person or Event: John
               | could ask about a person or event that doesn't exist, but
               | that an imposter wouldn't know is fictional.
               | 
               | For example, John could ask, "How's Aunt Mary doing? I
               | haven't heard from her in a while." If the person on the
               | phone says Aunt Mary is doing well, it's likely an
               | imposter because there is no Aunt Mary.
        
               | og_kalu wrote:
               | changing all the names/avoiding common priors works
               | better than trying to talk it out of memorization.
               | Sometimes the latter works, sometimes not. GPT's trust
               | their memory quite a bit. To the point that just like
               | people, they can ignore the output of tools if it looks
               | off - https://vgel.me/posts/tools-not-needed/
        
               | chrisco255 wrote:
               | Why should I have to avoid common priors? An intelligent
               | system should be able to disassociate and work with the
               | logic puzzle in an isolated fashion, especially after
               | directed to ignore the TV show.
               | 
               | That GPTs are easily fooled is nothing new. But there's a
               | current hype phase for them that I think is excessive,
               | and this example underscores that.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | og_kalu wrote:
               | I mean do whatever you want to do, i don't care lol.
               | 
               | >An intelligent system should be able to disassociate and
               | work with the logic puzzle in an isolated fashion
               | 
               | seeing as some people have issues doing this and we still
               | call humans generally intelligent, no
               | 
               | Your example underscores absolutely nothing. It can do
               | that sometimes...same as people.
               | 
               | anyone looking to fool people can easily fool people.
               | you've not made some giant revelation
        
               | dougmwne wrote:
               | I see this so often. People try to show what GPT can or
               | can't do without explicitly stating the version. Since
               | not many people have access to GPT-4 it's usually safe to
               | assume they didn't use it. GPT-4 is a massive improvement
               | over 3.5 when it come to any kind of non-trivial logic or
               | inference task.
        
               | coldtea wrote:
               | I used ChatGPT. Isn't it already based on GPT-4 since a
               | few weeks ago? It's the "Mar 23" version.
        
               | og_kalu wrote:
               | Unless you're paying for plus and then select the gpt-4
               | model, it's not 4.
               | 
               | alternatively, you can sign up/request for api access
               | here - https://openai.com/waitlist/gpt-4-api
        
               | mhb wrote:
               | They sure make this hard to figure out. On
               | https://openai.com/product/gpt-4 it says "GPT-4 is
               | OpenAI's most advanced system, producing safer and more
               | useful responses" and below it two links: "Try on ChatGPT
               | Plus" and "Join API waitlist". The first link takes me to
               | ChatGPT Mar23 version. You're saying that that's not
               | GPT-4?
               | 
               | It's also disturbing the way they are using the term
               | "Safety & alignment". It's as if they are trying to steer
               | what that means in the direction of DEI or NSFW and away
               | from existential risk.
        
               | nickthegreek wrote:
               | Correct, that is Legacy (GPT 3.5). On a paying account,
               | when you start a conversation there is a dropdown where
               | you can select which model to use. The choices are
               | Default (GPT-3.5) optimized for speed, Legacy (GPT-3.5),
               | GPT-4.
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | jtr1 wrote:
       | Wow, that ethics statement at the end
        
         | Veen wrote:
         | Yes, more "please don't be bad" than an ethics statement.
        
           | eternalban wrote:
           | you made me look:
           | 
           |  _" NaturalSpeech 2 can synthesize speech with good
           | expressiveness/fidelity and good similarity with a speech
           | prompt, which could be potentially misused, such as speaker
           | mimicking and voice spoofing. To avoid potential issues, we
           | appeal to our practitioners to not abuse this technology and
           | to develop defending tools to detect AI-synthesized voices.
           | We will always take Microsoft AI Principles as guidelines to
           | develop such AI models."_
           | 
           |  _Microsoft Responsible AI Standard, v2 (General Requirements
           | 2022)_
           | 
           | https://query.prod.cms.rt.microsoft.com/cms/api/am/binary/RE.
           | ..
           | 
           | That has a nice section called "Goal A2: Oversight of
           | significant adverse impacts", which says "Microsoft AI
           | systems are reviewed to identify systems that may have a
           | significant adverse impact on people, organizations, and
           | society, and additional oversight and requirements are
           | applied to those systems."
           | 
           | I couldn't find the Impact Assessment for this tech released
           | by Microsoft. How did the 'Natural Speech 2' fare in this
           | review process? Where is the report?
           | 
           | https://www.bing.com/search?q=Responsible+AI+Impact+Assessme.
           | ..
        
         | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
         | Yep. Tell me 1986 self that this is real and see what I say:
         | 
         | "We will always take Microsoft AI Principles as guidelines to
         | develop such AI models"
        
       | freedomben wrote:
       | Are NaturalSpeech or NaturalSpeech 2 from the research open
       | source and/or available for playing with? I see one
       | implementation[1] but it seems to be from a third party (that
       | might be totally fine, but wondering if there's an "official").
       | 
       | [1]: https://github.com/heatz123/naturalspeech
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | brikwerk wrote:
         | According to one of the authors on their group's GitHub,
         | NaturalSpeech is being deployed exclusively for use on
         | Microsoft Azure [1]. I might have missed a link, however, I
         | think it's likely that NaturalSpeech 2 will follow the same
         | path, seeing as the code and weights are seemingly not
         | published.
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/microsoft/NeuralSpeech/issues/40
        
       | delgaudm wrote:
       | >"To avoid potential issues, we appeal to our practitioners to
       | not abuse this technology and to develop defending tools to
       | detect AI-synthesized voices"
       | 
       | Well. I'm sure that will take care of everything.
        
         | SiempreViernes wrote:
         | In the guide on how to make "Harry Potter by Balenciaga" the
         | author shows you how to rip the audio from a vanity fair clip
         | and upload it to a voice cloning service, explicitly including
         | how they clicked in the little box that affirms they have "all
         | the necessary rights and consent" to clone the voice of Daniel
         | Radcliffe... so I'm _sure_ the industry is taking the potential
         | for misuse seriously!  /s
        
       | vletal wrote:
       | Is it just me, or the accompanying text does not correspond to
       | the audio?
        
       | samuelzxu wrote:
       | Does anyone know how many words would correspond to the diffusion
       | model's batch size of 6000 frames?
        
       | causality0 wrote:
       | Man I can't wait until my phone can use local resources to read
       | my epubs in voices that match 11.ai's output. I'll never have to
       | forlornly search Audible for novels that never got audiobook
       | editions again.
        
       | cwkoss wrote:
       | I feel like zero shot is a bad misnomer. Isn't the single attempt
       | "one shot"?
       | 
       | Is zero shot a meaningfully useful term that I'm just not
       | groking?
        
         | pstorm wrote:
         | Zero shot implies that it was given no direct examples [0] So,
         | in this case, it wasn't given any examples of the exact voice
         | in combination with text, it is just using the prompt voice + a
         | prompt text to generate new audio.
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-shot_learning
        
           | cwkoss wrote:
           | But isn't nearly all AI generated content "zero shot" to some
           | extent? Like even if it has training for "foo" and training
           | data for "bar", the combination of "foo" and "bar" would be
           | novel and 'zero shot'-y if the training set didn't have "foo
           | bar" examples.
           | 
           | To me, it seems that the only AI generated content that isn't
           | zero shot would be the narrow subset of generations where it
           | has multiple training examples for the exact requested
           | prompt. i.e. anything that is composing multiple pieces of
           | information together is "zero shot".
           | 
           | How should I parse 'shot' in the context of this term? Shot
           | makes me think 'attempts', seems like a weird word to use for
           | ~= "training examples"
        
       | andy_xor_andrew wrote:
       | I find the three links at the top very interesting-
       | 
       | You have a link to the paper (makes sense), then a link to a
       | reddit discussion, then a link to this hacker news post.
       | 
       | Not criticizing them for doing this. It just seems a bit unusual
       | to me. I guess they really really want to generate buzz from
       | this, or else they'd simply link the paper and let any discussion
       | follow naturally.
        
         | ImprobableTruth wrote:
         | I mean, most researchers I know are just very excitable about
         | their research and love to share it. I think that's a lot more
         | likely than this being some PR masterplay - if MS wanted to
         | really push this, they wouldn't release like this.
        
         | varunjain99 wrote:
         | I actually have a chrome extension that will point me to HN
         | discussions on a particular webpage - find it useful to get
         | community context of pages I'm browsing!
        
       | chikitabanana wrote:
       | To those who were able to use it before it was nerfed, how does
       | this compare to the elevenlabs one-shot?
        
       | irln wrote:
       | I'm guessing emotional pre-prompts are difficult. The current
       | offerings like ElevenLabs and WellSaidLabs provide amazing voices
       | for narration but lack any way to change the emotions (e.g.
       | happy, angry, excited, etc.). I wonder what are the technical
       | hurdles to adding this variability?
        
       | Sol- wrote:
       | Only a three second sample for in context learning needed to scam
       | people now, very impressive.
        
       | lachlan_gray wrote:
       | Is the approach similar to what they did for Riffusion? (On front
       | page a while ago)
       | 
       | https://www.riffusion.com/
        
       | ttul wrote:
       | Transformers and Diffusion Models seem to be leading the pack
       | lately in many tasks. It's cool how these models can be used in a
       | variety of quite different contexts without changing much about
       | the network architecture.
       | 
       | That being said, I think it is only a matter of time before cyber
       | criminals develop an end to end fully automated penetration
       | system that registers domain names, writes emails, makes phone
       | calls, finds money mules, runs social media accounts, etc. all
       | with a single console to run it all. That is a scary prospect for
       | humanity and new tools for authenticating human identity will be
       | needed - fast.
        
         | tudorw wrote:
         | mostly agree I think the web is over as we know it maybe the
         | solution will be the broken web plus some new system that has
         | ties into local regulation ID systems so that you are
         | accountable for your actions
        
           | hbbio wrote:
           | That's (seriously) where blockchains can help.
        
         | XorNot wrote:
         | We've had the solution in the form of basic TLS cryptography
         | and verification for decades now though, the problem is no
         | one's implementing it.
         | 
         | Governments already maintain registers of legally operating
         | businesses: there's no reason that registration should not also
         | be issuing cryptographic certificates which verify all forms of
         | outbound communication by that business including phone calls.
         | 
         | But despite telecom being almost end-to-end digital (i.e.
         | digital to the box on the street pretty much), there's been no
         | push to close the last 100m. "Phone lines" shouldn't exist
         | anymore with packet switched networking: you should just dial a
         | path against a business, which is verifies itself with TLS
         | certificates linked to it's business registry.
        
           | MattPalmer1086 wrote:
           | The problem here is authenticating that you are talking to a
           | human and not an AI. Certificates don't help with that.
           | 
           | Criminals will register temporary businesses and obtain
           | certificates for them with no problem.
        
             | AnthonyMouse wrote:
             | "Authenticating that you are talking to a human and not an
             | AI" is just a proxy for something else, most commonly
             | wanting to be able to rate limit something. Because
             | otherwise, why does it matter?
             | 
             | A lot of people are suggesting things like, have the
             | government do it. But that has two big problems. First is
             | privacy. If you have to prove your identity any time you
             | want to do anything, nobody can be anonymous anymore, which
             | is Very Bad.
             | 
             | Second, it assumes the government has some magic
             | incantation that nobody else can use, as if the Post Office
             | knows who you are in a way that your bank doesn't. But they
             | don't. To get a government ID, they just want you to show
             | them some other existing ID. It has no way to bootstrap
             | itself any better than anything else. And some of the IDs
             | they accept are easy to get... without an ID. Because
             | everybody has to start from somewhere. The system has to be
             | set up in a way that it works for people who emigrate from
             | a country with untrustworthy institutions as an adult or if
             | your house burns down and you lose all your documents you
             | can still get new ones. An AI is going to be able to BS its
             | way into a government ID, even assuming criminals wouldn't
             | be able to hack into any state's DMV (as they already
             | have).
             | 
             | It appears that going forward, telling the difference
             | between a human and an AI is going to be hard. Maybe
             | instead of trying to get better at that, we should find a
             | different solution to the underlying problem.
             | 
             | The simple answer is to make account creation cost
             | something. Nothing big, so someone who needs one account
             | isn't paying much, but a spammer who has 1000 accounts get
             | banned every day is out of business. And that's not even
             | hard -- it's finally something cryptocurrency would
             | actually be good for. Because you want a way for people to
             | pay for access to things, while still being anonymous.
             | 
             | The real hard part is, how do you charge for account
             | creation without deterring account creation?
        
             | ericd wrote:
             | But those certs can come with reputations attached, and it
             | prevents people from claiming that they're representatives
             | of well known companies.
        
               | MattPalmer1086 wrote:
               | Well, that would create strong financial incentives to
               | compromise company certificates, which I'm sure would
               | then happen.
               | 
               | And you still don't know if your taking to a human or an
               | AI.
        
               | lukevp wrote:
               | Like the strong financial incentives to compromise
               | certificates owned by banking websites? Securing voice
               | communications the same as website communications is an
               | awesome idea, and the fact that it's possible to steal
               | some piece of data and compromise it shouldn't prevent us
               | from moving in that direction.
        
               | MattPalmer1086 wrote:
               | It has happened, but there has to be a big pay off to
               | make it worthwhile.
               | 
               | Smaller companies would likely be more frequent targets
               | given they would be easier to compromise.
               | 
               | By the way, I'm not suggesting that the idea is useless.
               | I'm just pointing out it isn't a panacea, and it still
               | doesn't address the core problem raised in the article
               | that you don't know if you are speaking to a human or
               | not.
        
               | ericd wrote:
               | Does it matter if you're talking to a human or an AI? The
               | main thing is its intent - is it helpful, or malicious?
               | And attaching communications to persistent reputations
               | via certs can help guess at that.
        
               | MattPalmer1086 wrote:
               | It matters because an AI can contact many more potential
               | victims that a human can. It makes the cost of attack
               | much lower.
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | Where does the reputation come from? Is it going to work
               | like our already questionable anti-spam systems?
        
             | vimax wrote:
             | Why does it matter if you're talking to an AI or a human?
             | What can a criminal AI say that a criminal human cannot?
        
               | JeremyBanks wrote:
               | [dead]
        
               | MattPalmer1086 wrote:
               | You can automate it and reach many more victims than
               | doing it with humans.
               | 
               | Edit: it reduces the cost of the attack and thus makes it
               | more profitable.
        
               | mrec wrote:
               | A criminal human probably can't do a perfect voice
               | impersonation of your teenage kid or frail grandmother
               | who desperately needs to be sent money for some urgent
               | reason.
        
               | vimax wrote:
               | Sure, but that's not too different from the current scams
               | where there's some excuse you can't talk right now. In
               | both cases it can be solved by checking if it is coming
               | from a known number and calling the person in question to
               | confirm.
               | 
               | People you know typically won't desperately need lots of
               | money with some elaborate story that is impossible to be
               | immediately confirmed.
               | 
               | If AI suddenly leads to an increase in call spoofing,
               | that'd be a problem of the phone network that we already
               | face with robocalls, but wouldn't be new.
        
               | stri8ed wrote:
               | It's the cost factor. Using AI, it's economically
               | feasible to contact a million people, even if only a
               | fraction bite. Not unlike the current spam calls.
        
           | sroussey wrote:
           | And then the government will get hacked and the data leaked.
        
             | XorNot wrote:
             | Familiarize yourself with a certificate signing request.
        
       | ChildOfChaos wrote:
       | So is this just a paper or can we use this?
        
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       (page generated 2023-04-19 23:01 UTC)