[HN Gopher] Orb weaver spider glue properties evolve faster than...
___________________________________________________________________
Orb weaver spider glue properties evolve faster than their glue
genes
Author : wglb
Score : 35 points
Date : 2023-04-19 00:39 UTC (22 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (phys.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (phys.org)
| MattPalmer1086 wrote:
| Ummm, bad title. There is nothing here that suggests evolution of
| any sort.
|
| TLDR; spider glue can be produced to work in different humidities
| by altering the ratio of proteins in it. No evolutionary
| mechanism is discussed at all.
| finnh wrote:
| in other news, "finger positioning properties evolve faster
| than finger genes?"
|
| Doesn't seem too surprising that spiders can change their silk
| for varying conditions. It's part of their body, after all -
| they are going to be good at using it even in microscopically
| different ways.
| Hussell wrote:
| The spiders haven't even been shown to change their silk in
| response to conditions. It's just two species of spiders each
| with their own silk recipe.
| moi2388 wrote:
| I guess physical.org also uses ChatGPT to generate random
| headlines..
| sp332 wrote:
| The word "evolve" does not have such a narrow meaning outside
| of a specific technical context. From the paper:
|
| _The ability to selectively express different glue protein
| genes and /or to extrude their products at different rates
| provides a faster mechanism to evolve material properties than
| sequence evolution alone._
| MattPalmer1086 wrote:
| I disagree. Evolve has a general meaning that is widely
| understood, not just in a specific technical context.
|
| The fact that a spider can selectively express different
| proteins to suit different conditions is no different to all
| the other ways a living body can selectively alter protein
| expression to suit different conditions. We would not
| describe those as evolution.
| moralestapia wrote:
| >We would not describe those as evolution.
|
| What do you mean by "we"? Because I happen to have degrees
| in Genomics and Biology and I would definitely describe
| that as evolution.
| MattPalmer1086 wrote:
| You are correct, and I misunderstood what the article was
| saying. I just skimmed the paper itself.
|
| I thought it was saying that spiders were simply
| adjusting the material properties of their glue in
| response to environmental conditions. This is not
| evolution.
|
| The paper is saying that while the glue genes themselves
| are largely conserved, the material properties can vary
| by altering the ratios of protein which are expressed.
|
| Presumably this ratio is controlled due to other faster
| evolving genes (although this is not proven by the paper
| as far as I can see). I'm not entirely sure if they ruled
| out whether spiders could in fact adjust their glue in
| response to changing environmental conditions.
| [deleted]
| jdmichal wrote:
| I for one definitely go grab the shotgun everytime I hear
| that "the situation is rapidly evolving" on the news.
| Someone has to be ready to defend against all those
| mutants. /s
| Hussell wrote:
| Nowhere in the paper does it say that individual spiders
| are varying their silk composition in response to
| conditions. The selective expression of proteins is a
| difference between the two species studied, not between
| individuals within one species.
|
| The title is technically correct: the two species share a
| lot of glue genes, and the properties of their silks differ
| due to other genes affecting things like the ratios of glue
| proteins in the silk, and those genes evolved faster than
| the glue genes themselves.
| MattPalmer1086 wrote:
| Correct, although I'm not sure if they proved that other
| genes were responsible for the variation, just that the
| glue genes were essentially the same between them.
| dhbradshaw wrote:
| I like to think of genes as keys on a piano. But the genome also
| includes the a lot of the musical score. You can get a lot of
| different songs with a finite set of keys played in different
| combinations and sequences and amplitudes.
|
| In this picture, most of evolution wouldn't be changing the keys
| but changing the score.
| Hussell wrote:
| Since I happen to know these species: the spider pictured at the
| top of the article is an Argiope bruennichi (Wasp Spider), a
| European species which closely resembles A. trifasciata (Banded
| Garden Spider, one of the two species in the study).
| mkaic wrote:
| For those who would prefer a link to the original paper instead
| of coverage of that paper:
| https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fevo.2023.10994...
| pazimzadeh wrote:
| What's not mentioned in this lay-man summary, but is mentioned in
| the original article is glycosylation.
|
| https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fevo.2023.10994...
|
| Glycosylation is a post-translational modification that affects
| dramatic impact on protein function, especially their
| "stickiness."
|
| There are distinct genes which are responsible for encoding
| glycosyl transferases, which "decorate" the proteins after they
| are made. The fact that whoever wrote this article thinks these
| are not "glue genes" is a fallacy of composition.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition
|
| The article mentions that the proteins in question are highly
| glycosylated and concludes "Divergence in material properties
| likely also involves selective gene expression, post
| translational protein modifications, and differences in the rates
| of extrusion of constituent glue proteins."
|
| Therefore, the title is click-bait.
| [deleted]
| anotheraccount9 wrote:
| The article discusses the glue produced by orb web and cobweb
| weaving spiders in the Araneoidea superfamily. The glue is
| produced in specialized silk glands and is responsive to the
| environment. Researchers compared the glue of two spider species
| and found that both species had around 30 proteins contributing
| to the stickiness of the glue, but the number and relative
| contribution of each protein group differed between the two
| species.
|
| The ability to selectively express different glue protein genes
| provides a faster mechanism to evolve material properties than
| sequence evolution alone.
| waynecochran wrote:
| I didn't read the original article, but this write up does not
| explain the title at all. Evolution works at the genetic level
| does it not? What is natural selection modifying if it is not the
| genes?
| fiftyfifty wrote:
| Someone on here recommended a book called "Wetware: A Computer
| in Every Living Cell" and it goes into detail but at a fairly
| layman level explaining how stuff like this works at the
| biochemical level. Basically we have genes that code for pieces
| of proteins and those pieces can be combined in millions of
| different ways to form unique proteins. Feedback systems based
| on proteins turn individual genes on and off to encourage the
| production of effective proteins. Essentially we have the
| ability to evolve and adapt at the protein level without any
| modifications to our genes.
|
| Honestly reading that book really opened my eyes to how complex
| this stuff really is. Biology is unbelievably robust and
| flexible well beyond the basic model of evolution that we are
| taught takes places at the genetic level.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| Same question. I could imagine a variety of answers, I don't
| this it's exactly impossible, but yeah, the actual answer is
| the interesting thing the title had me wanting, and not getting
| here!
|
| Or I wonder if this popular write-up article just got it's
| title wrong?
| yarg wrote:
| Natural selection is the sieve, not the modifier.
|
| That quibble aside, there are also epigenetics to consider.
| Hussell wrote:
| The two species share a lot of glue genes, and the properties
| of their silks differ due to other genes affecting things like
| the ratios of glue proteins in the silk. Those other genes
| evolved faster than the glue genes themselves.
|
| The title is technically correct, though misleading.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-04-19 23:02 UTC)