[HN Gopher] Ask HN: What would you recommend a 16 year old to pu...
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       Ask HN: What would you recommend a 16 year old to pursue career
       wise?
        
       In a world where nothing seems sure anymore what would you do?
       Would you bother getting an education? When knowledge becomes
       meaningless is there a reason to learn?
        
       Author : morph123
       Score  : 14 points
       Date   : 2023-04-18 20:25 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
       | badrabbit wrote:
       | Depends on the 16 year old. Making money should be a priority for
       | everyone who isn't rich. Be well enough to take care of yourself
       | before you pursue careers that have no financial benefit.
       | 
       | But that said, you can get paid good enough for most desires and
       | inclinations you have.
       | 
       | But taking a step back here, what I have seen with kids that age
       | is either they already have a passion or you need to shove them
       | very hard towards different directions and see what they like.
       | They're usually lacking in exposure. Maybe they'll like coding
       | and computer stuff but they have no exposure. At that age I was
       | barely fostering a coding hobby but haven't really gotten into
       | infosec myself. Down the road I tried different things and I was
       | very surprised at what I liked and did not like. I apparently
       | don't have a fear of heights (scary but I can manage) and I hate
       | long-haul trucking.
       | 
       | But my standing advice is to get a degree in something practical
       | no matter what.
       | 
       | If they lean to technical stuff have them pursue EE, social
       | justice? Law or languages and literature, like to work with
       | hands? Mechanical engineering, medicine? RN
       | 
       | If you are an EE grad for example it is not hard to get into
       | coding, IT or security. Or manufacturing and designing hardware,
       | and anything with electrons. Plan to get two degrees, one before
       | you're 23 and another before 30 after you figured out what you
       | really like.
        
       | ChumpGPT wrote:
       | Don't let all the hype get to you. There will be al kinds of
       | jobs, agriculture, construction, technology, Healthcare, etc. Get
       | an education but be smart about it. Go to a State school locally
       | and keep the cost down, get a degree for under 50k.
        
       | gaze wrote:
       | You answered your own question -- the future is too uncertain to
       | give you a great answer to that question. Suppose you go to
       | college and hit the job market at 22. You're trying to predict 6
       | years out, which is really hard.
       | 
       | Knowledge isn't meaningless. It'll never be meaningless. Or
       | rather, there will always be experts, it's just not clear in what
       | and how many. Stay agile and get good at something you see as
       | there being a demand for one day. This probably isn't something
       | that there's demand for today. You have to use your imagination a
       | bit, but you can't really go wrong with mastering basically
       | anything. You always learn. Make sure you do something you can be
       | passionate in and hold interest in. Focus goes a long way. You
       | will, after enough time of navigating this, have accrued a very
       | unique set of skills that can be crossed with one another to
       | solve very interesting problems. You'll always do well if you can
       | be a good problem solver.
        
       | brucethemoose2 wrote:
       | Its a great time to start playing with generative AI, locally if
       | you can.
       | 
       | I don't know what the future holds, but a Github profile with a
       | history of AI experimentation seems like it would look good on a
       | resume.
        
         | kraussvonespy wrote:
         | This would interest me as an employer of tech people. Interest
         | in topics like ML/AI or quantum computing or crypto algorithms
         | or reverse engineering all show that you're capable of figuring
         | out complex technical issues without help from others.
        
       | atmosx wrote:
       | > In a world where nothing seems sure anymore what would you do?
       | 
       | Assuming you're talking about the job market, nothing was sure at
       | any given point in time. Of course, after the fact everything
       | seems "obvious" but I assure you at the time it wasn't.
       | 
       | The only thing I would be my cards os is studying medicine: If
       | you become a surgeon you'll most likely make lots of money, the
       | downside is that it takes lots of work and time to do so.
       | 
       | Whatever you do, from chef and small business retail owner to
       | startups - make sure you're _good at what you do_ and you won 't
       | have to worry about the market.
       | 
       | > Would you bother getting an education?
       | 
       | If you are _really good_ at programming (e.g. you already know
       | how to program relatively complex CRUD applications) my advice is
       | to study something else e.g. Physics, Mathematics, Philosophy,
       | Social Sciences, etc. Diversified profiles are the most sought
       | after.
       | 
       | Going to college is not just about learning CS (or whatever)
       | fundamentals. It is about friendships, having fun, entering
       | adulthood. Try to take advantage of the Erasmus system, travel as
       | much as you can, as cheaply as you can, meet ppl, do crazy shit
       | while staying on track with your classes. It is important to
       | "exit" student's life within the expected time frame, helps a
       | lot.
       | 
       | > When knowledge becomes meaningless is there a reason to learn?
       | 
       | Knowledge is _never_ meaningless. Most of the _experts_ on any
       | given field have lots of knowledge that at first glance might
       | seem irrelevant but they're able to mix and match in order to
       | advance the knowledge on a specific field.
       | 
       | My guess is that you're referring to modern tech stacks. Often
       | times seasoned users complain about how "this" or "that" stack
       | has nothing new to offer apart from X which was already a thing
       | 15 years ago with a different name. That's part because of age -
       | we all become a bit of a whiners when getting old - but primarily
       | because the _already knew the old tech stack inside out_ so they
       | can analyse, break down and understand the decisions (good and
       | bad) of the new stack on the fly. When your time comes you 'll
       | have to learn to current tech stack and make your own decisions.
       | 
       | Wish you success in your life.
        
         | scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
         | I work with surgeons and the running joke is that practical
         | procedure based medicine just sucks - the hours, the physical
         | work, the hospital, the conflicts and politics. It's all truly
         | brutal.
         | 
         | However I do agree 100% with what you said. Witnessing them
         | fixing a newborn infant was an insane experience for me and I
         | was super jealous.
         | 
         | What they recommend is still medicine, but the non-practical
         | fields - prescribing medications, designing and administering
         | complex treatments from the comfort of an office.
         | 
         | My personal take is that everything and anything medical will
         | never ever go away as long as there are humans. I love the fact
         | I get to work in both a software dev world and the medical
         | world. Software still can do so much for that.
        
       | dudeDDRrulez wrote:
       | This may sound odd but I would recommend a trade that cannot be
       | easily replaced by AI. Something like an electrician or roofer.
       | Then try to get an apprenticeship with an older professional and
       | learn as much as you can. Skip college completely and just start
       | a business instead. You will be so much better off financially
       | compared to say, a lawyer who will be in debt for a while and
       | who's job is about to be made obsolete by AI.
        
         | vlunkr wrote:
         | Nah. Get an education in something you enjoy and that pays
         | well. In the event that AI does replace your job, you can learn
         | a manual labor trade quickly.
         | 
         | Starting a successful business is not easy.
        
         | wahern wrote:
         | Have you ever done roofing? There are few occupations which
         | will destroy your back faster than roofing. Everybody in
         | construction knows you always outsource roofing if you can;
         | better to feel sorry for the poor folks (usually literally
         | quite poor) stuck doing that work than to be the one people
         | feel sorry for.
         | 
         | Road construction might be worse, though.
         | 
         | Note well: No roofer or road construction worker would tell
         | someone to skip college. If college is in the cards, just go to
         | college and get it over with. Even if you never use your
         | degree, it would still be the right decision, so long as you
         | didn't take on a ton of debt going to a private school. (If the
         | thought of slogging through college is off-putting, know that a
         | lifetime of manual labor will be even worse. School is work,
         | and if you can't make yourself suffer through that, you are
         | very likely going to be even more disappointed with the choices
         | manual or unskilled labor throw your way.)
        
           | pg938hkd wrote:
           | [dead]
        
         | carlosjobim wrote:
         | Blue collar means spending your youth with tough physical
         | labour surrounded by grumpy men to make some even angrier old
         | man richer - while your friends are in college partying with
         | fun girls and making contacts for easy jobs. Some people can be
         | successful in a blue collar career, but the odds are you'll be
         | abused, dogged and low paid. For that experience, you are
         | better off spending your youth in the hospitality business,
         | where you'll at least have fun workmates.
         | 
         | Blue collar work is the back bone of our material world, but I
         | just cannot see it as a smart choice for a 16 year old. There
         | is a lot of crap attitude among blue collar workers, and if you
         | don't fit in culturally you'll be miserable, even if you're
         | good at your job. Maybe things will have changed in a couple of
         | years, who knows? But the skills are great to learn and know!
         | 
         | Starting a business is very sound advice for those who have it
         | in them. Learning skills by working for yourself gives you a
         | better paying business, while learning skills by working for
         | somebody else gives them a better paying business. But you need
         | to know at least something if you want to have a real business.
        
       | louison11 wrote:
       | Do you.
        
       | fluffyspork wrote:
       | get an electrical engineering degree.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | jschveibinz wrote:
         | I know that a lot of people would disagree with this, but
         | having gotten an EE degree I can say that it was one of the
         | most important things I ever did in my life. It was hard. But
         | it was transformative. An engineering degree forces you to
         | learn how to identify problems, use science, use math, solve
         | problems, be creative, work together and most importantly cut
         | corners to get to usable solutions as quickly as possible.
         | 
         | I took 5 years and did a co-op job experience with my degree. I
         | was able to socialize a little, but I'm not going to lie---the
         | program demands a lot of study time. So there isn't much time
         | for partying on weeknights.
         | 
         | With an engineering degree, you can go and do so many different
         | things for work. I can't imagine the skills you learn ever
         | getting stale. And it's great for future entrepreneurs.
        
       | captainbland wrote:
       | Knowledge won't become meaningless. Even in a world where AI
       | becomes ubiquitous, AI will keep getting stuff wrong and it will
       | ultimately be down to humans to correct that.
        
       | wellthisisgreat wrote:
       | do things that are actually interesting to you, even if they seem
       | weird or nonsensical to people as little as 5 years older.
       | 
       | Imagine wanting to be a professional videogame... anything in
       | 2000? Or thinking there is a way to make money on, gasp, Fantasy
       | Football? etc. etc.
       | 
       | I firmly believe if there is a subject that interests you deeply
       | and you know there are other people also deeply interested in it,
       | there is money to be made there not to mention a purposeful,
       | impactful life to be enjoyed around it.
       | 
       | There is a fine line between landing on something that allows you
       | to capitalize on your passion (e.g. VR in 2010) and doing
       | something truly obscure (e.g. collecting memorabilia or
       | something) that nobody except for a handful other people would
       | truly care about.
       | 
       | If you're 16 and see something that resonates with you, that's
       | also something a sizable amount of your friend care about, but
       | nobody in the higher age bracket understands, chances are you are
       | privy to a secret map to a generational goldmine.
       | 
       | Or you can just bury yourself alive in finance sector.
        
       | coverclock wrote:
       | I wrote a blog article on this very topic several years ago:
       | https://coverclock.blogspot.com/2012/12/passion-practice-pro...
        
       | ed_mercer wrote:
       | LLM usefulness is rapidly reaching a plateau and I suspect the
       | hype (and anxiety) will die down soon. Also as someone who uses
       | LLMs daily they are far from being a silver bullet to everything
       | and it doesn't appear to be changing in the near future. Go study
       | CS and enjoy your education, you will be needed!
        
       | vlunkr wrote:
       | I think you need to cheer up first :)
       | 
       | When I was getting into programming, everyone was warning me that
       | the jobs would all be outsourced soon. That didn't happen, or not
       | in any kind of apocalyptic way.
       | 
       | I'm not certain what you're concerned about, so I'll address a
       | couple of things.
       | 
       | The job market is in a rough place. This happens. It's a pendulum
       | that never stops swinging. Make yourself useful somewhere and
       | hope for the best. If you're paid well and smart with money, you
       | can weather the storms.
       | 
       | AI is making crazy, disturbing advancements right now. However,
       | it is not even close to being able to fully replace a human in a
       | programming or similarly technical job (I'm not an AI researcher,
       | but that's my observation). It's a good time to get familiar with
       | these tools, because it seems very likely that we'll all be using
       | them in some capacity, rather than working for them. This is not
       | hugely different from the computer revolution we already went
       | through.
       | 
       | So yes, get an education. For your own enjoyment/self-fulfillment
       | if nothing else.
        
       | jaidan wrote:
       | Either a horticulturalist/permaculturist or an industrial
       | electrician.
       | 
       | Both are and will be required skills for the foreseeable future
       | (next 200 years or so).
       | 
       | Knowing how to grow food and maintain a healthy environment is
       | becoming a lost skill. "Grounding" has science now saying it's a
       | good thing for your blood, heart and brain (don't have link on
       | hand but when connected to ground scientists have found blood
       | physically changes and can be seen in microscope).
       | 
       | Electricians are usually a licensed trade. This makes it more
       | protected but also makes you more useful.
       | 
       | You can branch into engineering later if you wish, and you
       | usually make for a better engineer cause you know a 630mm^2 cable
       | doesn't fit in a 20mm gland.
       | 
       | Substation automation based on IEC61850 is everywhere and more
       | common. It consists of servers, gateways, IEDs (which also need
       | programming), Ethernet, VLANS, switches etc. so you get a
       | technology knowledge base you can relate to other areas of yours,
       | or your friends and families life.
       | 
       | You can also learn to program SCL files using python or other
       | such tools. Get bored of big power? Switch over to instrument and
       | controls.
       | 
       | There will always be a need for plants, food and power. Why not
       | set yourself up for success those ways?
       | 
       | (Oh! And you get paid to train when you're an apprentice and you
       | don't end up with student debt or university fees)
        
       | rmk wrote:
       | I would use https://www.bls.gov/ooh/fastest-growing.htm and
       | https://www.bls.gov/ooh/highest-paying.htm as a starting point,
       | and see if the kid is willing to pursue training to prepare
       | him/her for that occupation.
       | 
       | One thing that should be emphasized to children is the necessity
       | to earn a decent livelihood with a job that leaves them enough
       | time to pursue their other interests. It is important to do
       | something remunerative, but also balance it with occupational
       | outlook and individual interests. Of course, individual interests
       | can and do change over time, so they should be taken with a pinch
       | of salt, particularly as a 16-year old.
        
         | floxy wrote:
         | > https://www.bls.gov/ooh/fastest-growing.htm
         | 
         | #4 fastest growing is "Motion picture projectionists" and is
         | expected to grow by 40% by 2031. Which looks to mean that it
         | will grow from 1,620 to 2,268 jobs.
         | 
         | https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes393021.htm
        
       | jonahbenton wrote:
       | Yes. It is your life. It isn't about what is out there. It's
       | about what's in you.
       | 
       | My kids are 19, 17, 12. I tell them- you're not going to college
       | to get an education that is about knowledge out in the world. You
       | are going to get an education about you. To learn about your
       | person- your body, your brain, your own mental model of your self
       | and other selves and the world.
       | 
       | Your person is still in physical growth mode until at least 25,
       | and then you have lots of other changes and challenges coming
       | after that. You will continue learning, including about your
       | self, throughout the entirety of your life. To be set up to do
       | that is why you're going.
       | 
       | (Yes, college is not the real world, in any way. But in important
       | ways it is real enough.)
       | 
       | ==
       | 
       | The most important things to be able to do are- build
       | relationships, focus and concentrate, organize your self and your
       | thinking, communicate, have fun, and take care of the physical
       | self. You don't have any idea, really, how well you do those
       | things as a teenager. It's the job of the adults around you to
       | help. College is an opportunity to expose your person to more
       | unique, distinct, varied, skilled adults and peers than at any
       | time previous, and for some, more than they will ever get again
       | (unfortunately). That exposure is the most intense learning the
       | self can do.
       | 
       | For each of my kids, they have things they are good at now, and
       | things they are not good at. Not just skills- capabilities.
       | Biases. Potentials, not actuals. As their parent I have a good
       | sense of possible distinct and unique trajectories for each of
       | them given those potentials, and I do what I can to coach them
       | onto those various trajectories and in specific work domain
       | disciplines that are potential fits (to my eyes) for them. But
       | that's a conversation that is specific to our relationship. And
       | their lives are their own.
       | 
       | For you, I would encourage you to see yourself not even at the
       | beginning of your adventure, and to think hard and figure out
       | good ways, with the guidance of adults you currently respect and
       | trust, to avail yourself and position yourself to be exposed to
       | and learn from new adults worthy of respect and trust. And pay it
       | forward, too.
        
         | biohax2015 wrote:
         | You sound like a great parent!
        
         | scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
         | Can you adopt me?
        
       | bbertelsen wrote:
       | Whatever you do, focus on a deep specialization. Find something
       | you really love then become a profound expert in it. Education is
       | absolutely critical in a world where you are either telling
       | machines what to do or being told what to do by a machine.
        
       | scotuswroteus wrote:
       | With that worldview, you should pursue banking.
        
         | retrocryptid wrote:
         | Very Droll.
         | 
         | (Don't get me wrong... for me, "very droll" is a complement.)
        
       | zwieback wrote:
       | Resounding yes for getting an education. Learning to think and
       | being thrown in with random other people will serve you well. I
       | agree that learning a hands-on skill adjacent to whatever you
       | study is valuable.
        
       | themodelplumber wrote:
       | I recommend looking into their native strengths[1] first, as that
       | will create a foundation for really wise use of their most
       | stable, sustainable career energy.
       | 
       | StrengthsFinder / CliftonStrengths and Sally Hogshead's _How the
       | World Sees You_ are great examples to look into. The USG also
       | offers free career testing tools that are definitely worth a
       | shot. Many schools also have career learning paths that offer
       | other resources of this kind.
       | 
       | From that point, you should have a good starter set of tools that
       | allow one to design the needed career outcome no matter what has
       | changed in the world.
       | 
       | In addition to strengths, it's also a good idea to pay special
       | attention to the "not interesting" and "less strengths in this
       | area" measures/results, since those will helpfully indicate
       | exhausting careers or jobs to avoid, even if they may seem
       | interesting for hobby-type energy.
       | 
       | Good luck to you both, I know a lot's been changing recently.
       | 
       | 1. These kinds of strengths are more about the energy one can
       | consistently and flexibly commit to a specific set of
       | perspectives on life and creativity, like for hours each day
       | without prompting, and less about "is a talented artist," "can
       | code," etc.
        
       | retrocryptid wrote:
       | I think the unspoken context here is you want the aforementioned
       | 16 year old to have a decent income over their lifetime.
       | 
       | I think doing something they're interested in has a lot of merit,
       | though at age 16 they may not have experienced enough different
       | things to know for sure.
       | 
       | I'm not sure why you think knowledge is meaningless. Everyone is
       | panicking about AI, but honestly, I've yet to see an AI produced
       | document that's competent or a line of AI generated code that's
       | useful. Yes... it can produce things that are at 80% of what you
       | might want and that means that you (the human) may only have to
       | spend half your time editing AI generated content.
       | 
       | I don't think Lawyers or Doctors or College Professors are going
       | to be replaced with AI. But I think each of these professions
       | will need to develop expertise in working with evolving
       | technology.
       | 
       | How 'bout Literature? Granted, it's not the royal road to wealth
       | my creative writing instructor implied, but it's great fun. And
       | if you love reading and writing, you'll probably maintain the
       | level of motivation needed for an advanced degree, so maybe
       | Literature Professor?
       | 
       | Or spend some time in the military. I spent a few years in the
       | Marines in the middle of my college experience. It made me
       | realize a few things: 1. I don't want a career in the military
       | and 2. I would love to have a job that got me out of the office
       | on a regular basis. But there are plenty of people who love the
       | military and make it a career.
       | 
       | Have you asked your 16 year old what they want to do?
        
       | runjake wrote:
       | At your age, I'd be a generalist and do as much exploring and
       | learning as you are able. After you have plenty of experience,
       | then examine specializing more.
       | 
       | Me, I'm 50 and have been a generalist all my life. It's fun, and
       | I never get bored with it. And I've been in the game long enough
       | that I could probably be considered a "specialist" in many
       | different areas.
        
       | markus_zhang wrote:
       | Education is less about knowledge but more about connections and
       | interactions nowadays. Some lucrative positions only hire from
       | small groups. So yeah I'd aim for the best university.
       | 
       | About knowledge itself, find something you are interested in and
       | drill deep. I know it's cliche but unfortunately that's the only
       | way to have a meaningful life without relying on someone else
       | (I'm trying to say you can have a meaningful life by doing
       | something different but that usually relies on someone else e.g.
       | getting a kid).
       | 
       | Other than that get healthy and exercise often.
       | 
       | Of course if you have well connected parents then it's a
       | different story.
        
       | ignite wrote:
       | Skilled trades pay well, and are harder to automate than jobs
       | that can be done remotely.
       | 
       | Plumbing for example, requires both knowledge, and hands on work.
       | Plumbers won't be replaced until both AI and Robotics advance
       | cosiderably.
        
         | gaze wrote:
         | I agree that plumbers will always be valuable, but the market
         | we're in is in no way efficient. People are not compensated by
         | their value. The ideal rate to pay a plumber is as little as
         | you can get away with, and that could just drop.
         | 
         | Consider this -- there's more and more rental properties, and
         | so less people who want to maintain their plumbing properly.
         | There will likely be more "lowest bidder" work, and so the
         | rates will drop. The quality of plumbing will drop, the pride
         | in the trade will drop.
        
       | Temporary_31337 wrote:
       | Green energy - wind, solar, hydro, hydrogen etc has a lot of life
       | left in it- there will be work installing wind farms and
       | maintaining them.
        
         | retrocryptid wrote:
         | +1. There are certainly worse careers out there and working in
         | green energy should help prevent the worst outcomes of climate
         | change.
        
       | orlandohill wrote:
       | Paul Graham has some nice advice on this in his essay, What
       | You'll Wish You'd Known. http://paulgraham.com/hs.html
       | 
       |  _" In the graduation-speech approach, you decide where you want
       | to be in twenty years, and then ask: what should I do now to get
       | there? I propose instead that you don't commit to anything in the
       | future, but just look at the options available now, and choose
       | those that will give you the most promising range of options
       | afterward."_
        
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