[HN Gopher] Valve Releases Proton 8.0-1c
___________________________________________________________________
Valve Releases Proton 8.0-1c
Author : rc00
Score : 106 points
Date : 2023-04-17 19:06 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| Thaxll wrote:
| I'm confused, who works on Proton is it Valve or CodeWeavers?
|
| I don't see valve employees in there:
| https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/graphs/contributors
| bartvk wrote:
| It could also be that Valve subcontracts the CodeWeavers
| people.
| haunter wrote:
| >... Griffais says the company is also directly paying more
| than 100 open-source developers to work on the Proton
| compatibility layer, the Mesa graphics driver, and Vulkan,
| among other tasks like Steam for Linux and Chromebooks.
|
| https://www.theverge.com/23499215/valve-steam-deck-interview...
| sho_hn wrote:
| Valve is a relatively small company. They have absolutely
| fantastic in-house talent (gamescope, for example, is a Valve
| development and an important innovation of modern SteamOS), but
| they also have quite a few contractors and projects/teams they
| support.
|
| (Disclaimer: I worked at a contractor on the Steam Deck for a
| while, working on the desktop mode.)
| Sunspark wrote:
| Out of curiosity, why didn't desktop mode include things like
| language support or CUPS printing support?
| sho_hn wrote:
| Not sure! My particular team was working on features
| upstream in the KDE Plasma desktop. The packaging / Arch-
| based distro was done elsewhere. I also left the
| contracting company before the shipping year, though (while
| still involved with KDE otherwise today); it's possible
| there was more intra-team comm later on.
|
| All I can offer you is speculation: Maybe just something no
| one's gotten around to yet? Also, I think desktop mode and
| its use cases are probably a lot more popular than anyone
| expected.
| agilob wrote:
| I wouldn't put CUPS on Steam deck because too many people
| have HP printers. People trying their HP printer or scanner
| and not having it working would put Deck in bad light
| really.
| k4ch0w wrote:
| Thank you for making it dope! I love my deck.
| meibo wrote:
| CodeWeavers is contracted to work on Proton for Valve, and they
| are the main driving force behind it. I believe Valve only does
| triage for them. They're also contracting various other devs
| throughout the Linux desktop community to work on things like
| Mesa.
| vulkansdk2 wrote:
| Vulkan is okay.
|
| Proton has the energy of open source clones of video games.
|
| There's a reason games aren't made for Vulkan, even on platforms
| like Android.
|
| It's not just because there is a lack of market share.
|
| Valve's immense resources would be better spent on making Source
| Engine work for more game genres; itself support Vulkan better,
| or even default to Vulkan on Windows; make it fully free. If they
| really felt strongly about this.
| ozarker wrote:
| Vulkan isnt perfect but it's the only open source step in the
| right direction and is enabling things like proton to exist.
| ElectricalUnion wrote:
| > Valve's immense resources would be better spent on making
| Source Engine work for more game genres; itself support Vulkan
| better
|
| Source Engine Vulkan support uses DXVK, and the main driver for
| DXVK development is Proton. So in a roundabout way, they are
| supporting Vulkan better.
|
| > or even default to Vulkan on Windows
|
| Is said Vulkan on Windows default better?
|
| Most pretty naive direct DirectX-to-Vulkan conversions (running
| DXVK under Windows) have sightly worse performance that just
| using DirectX directly, and the proprietary Radeon Windows and
| Nvidia Windows drivers hide a lot of implementation-specific
| optimizations and workarounds for common game and application
| bugs.
| ChikkaChiChi wrote:
| Despite not being public, Valve still operates under capitalist
| pretenses. This means that their time is "best spent" on what
| generates revenue. Predictably, this means getting their
| commerce platform on as many devices as possible. That's made
| possible by Proton.
|
| The side benefit is that the abstraction layer they are
| building will introduce near-parity between GPU APIs, which
| renders the whole thing moot.
| globalreset wrote:
| Better spent? Proton is what enables tons of Linux users play
| tons of otherwise Windows-only games. Plus it's not exclusive
| in the first place. In combination with Steam Deck it's console
| killer.
| unpopularopp wrote:
| >In combination with Steam Deck it's console killer
|
| Are you saying that Proton + Linux seriously threatening,
| killing, the market of PS5/Xbox Series/Nintendo Switch?
| asadlionpk wrote:
| Steam Deck is kinda on some path there.
| arp242 wrote:
| Steam Deck sold about 3 million units; Playstation 5
| about 30 million, X-Box about 20 million, Nintendo Switch
| about 130 million. Steam has about 120 million active
| accounts.
|
| I mean, it's successful I guess, but also not exactly
| taking over the world.
| asadlionpk wrote:
| Well it's v1.0. Lot's of rough edges too! I see 3 million
| as a big number for an open/linux gaming console.
| arp242 wrote:
| Well, the first Playstation sold about 100 million units;
| the NES about 60 million. Of course they had longer to
| sell those units, this is offset by the lower population,
| lower cost, and a smaller market (less Chinese people
| were able to afford a NES or even Playstation 1). Even
| the Dreamcast sold about 9 million units, which wasn't
| enough to keep Sega afloat. To get to numbers of the same
| magnitude we need to get to the Sega CD with about 2.2
| million units sold, and that's widely considered to be a
| huge failure.
| justinclift wrote:
| The Steam Deck is regarded as a competitor to the Nintendo
| Switch yeah?
| danr4 wrote:
| If there's a company that can increase market share and
| adoption for Vulkan it's Valve
| thefz wrote:
| > Proton has the energy of open source clones of video games.
|
| Sorry, what?
| darkteflon wrote:
| > Proton has the energy of open source clones of video games
|
| Given what it's capable of, that's one of the most uncharitable
| takes I've ever seen on Proton.
| pitaj wrote:
| What's wrong with Vulkan? I was under the impression that it's
| pretty similar to DX12, and a big improvement over OpenGL.
| TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
| I'm amused by the subtitles of some of the Atelier games showing
| up as strikethroughs because of the Japanese practice of writing
| subtitles ~like this~.
| sho_hn wrote:
| Off-topic, but perhaps someone might appreciate this factoid in
| a hacker spirit sense (or it makes them check their code at
| work): Randomly reminds me of a relatively common CJK bug in
| Qt-based software.
|
| Qt comes with its own string class that supports substitution
| like this: QString("%1 %2").arg(foo).arg(bar)
|
| This is often naively used by devs to e.g. build filesystem
| paths (the framework has better APIs for this). With CJK, it
| often happens that HTML-style percent encoding ends up in
| strings and filenames somewhere (think %20 for space, etc; a
| lot of CJK ends up percent-encoded), and then arg() substitutes
| into the wrong thing and everything breaks.
|
| I've fixed this at least twice in Qt-based music players
| dealing with song metadata, thanks to a Korean-language music
| collection and Korean radio/podcast streams.
| soulofmischief wrote:
| A factoid is something which seems true but isn't. Perhaps
| you mean fact. If you must stress the insignificant nature of
| the fact, there is also factlet, trivia etc.
| sho_hn wrote:
| I appreciate this :-) I thought a factoid is a "small, not-
| so-important fact".
| warning26 wrote:
| Truly impressive stuff -- with Windows 11 being kind of terrible,
| I wonder if we'll soon reach an inflection point where Linux is
| the OS-of-choice for PC gaming.
| bentcorner wrote:
| Personally, Linux would need to be many times better than
| Windows for me to use it to replace Windows for gaming.
| Currently W11 does the job with minimal fuss. I don't need to
| worry about anticheat, compatibility issues or driver problems.
|
| Windows isn't without fault but at least for gaming I don't
| really have any complaints. I'm unconvinced that there's any
| upside to switching to Linux.
| unixhero wrote:
| It already is. You don't seem to have done actual testing.
| penjelly wrote:
| what? protondb shows 44% aggregate game coverage, meaning
| 56% of games are not verified to be playable on linux
| systems. In what world is that "better".
|
| my daily driver is PopOS and use proton for my games, i
| love it, but its not better, and the games do not play
| better on average in my experience. Nor is it fun having to
| do tinker steps when all i want to do is jump into the game
| arp242 wrote:
| The database isn't perfect, for example Kingpin
| (https://www.protondb.com/app/38430) is listed as
| "unplayable" but it _does_ work with the latest patch
| without problems, at least in Wine and presumably with
| Proton too. I don 't know how common this is though -
| this is just something I encountered last week - but
| there's a long tail of older and sometimes obscure games,
| quite a few of which also don't run well on Windows any
| more without mucking about; I wouldn't necessarily put
| _that_ much stock in that number.
|
| There's also a native Linux version of Kingpin by the
| way; the instructions start with "must run as root" so
| never mind... The 90s were wild.
| eldaisfish wrote:
| Something to keep in mind - how many of the games that
| work have been played to completion? Too often, "working"
| means the initial areas in the game work.
| arp242 wrote:
| In my experience if works then it works; I can't recall
| any specific instance in almost 20 years of wine usage
| where it works fine for the first hour and then stops
| working at some specific point, although I'm sure there
| are instances where this is the case. I don't think it's
| a significant factor, especially because there are often
| multiple reports.
| Karunamon wrote:
| Proton DB makes that case handily, no personal testing
| required.
|
| I wish people were a bit more sanguine and a bit less
| thinking wishfully about the real world performance of
| Proton. It is absolutely impressive, but "Playable" is not
| good enough of a rating; it's not even table stakes. There
| are bugs and manual interventions required on "playable"
| titles on proton DB that would lead to mass outrage and
| refunds if they behaved that way on their native platform.
|
| "It can literally be played" is such a low bar.
| bentcorner wrote:
| Let's get some concrete facts out then - how is it better?
| A (selfish) practical example for myself - I play a lot of
| Overwatch. It works just fine in windows. I get low load
| times and usually maintain 177fps at full resolution. I
| have no complaints but I am open to switching. Am I
| guaranteed of seeing no issues in Linux?
| smoldesu wrote:
| I play Overwatch on Linux. After you compile shaders
| (takes 2-3 minutes on a good CPU) it runs fine. Almost
| unnoticeable from a performance standpoint: I was getting
| ~120-130 frames at 1440p on my GTX 1050ti. On my new
| 3070ti it's so fast I don't even think about it.
|
| This is an old benchmark, but still shows how good DXVK
| is for this title: https://youtu.be/voXc1nCD4IA
|
| And yes, it still works with Overwatch 2. Did from Day 1,
| Blizzard must have had a Steam Deck dev kit or something.
| bentcorner wrote:
| Thanks! Were there any useful resources you used to make
| sure everything was configured correctly? I'm a relative
| Linux noob - I've used it here and there but never as my
| main home desktop, and most certainly never for gaming.
| smoldesu wrote:
| There's a well-maintained Lutris script[0] that's
| probably your most painless option. It's also possible to
| run it with Proton/Steam if you put in enough elbow
| grease, but... you've probably got better things to do.
| My only other advice would be to put in the work for
| getting Wayland to run so your framerate is as smooth as
| your GPU says it is.
|
| I hope my last comment didn't come off as too hostile,
| it's a great time to experiment with Linux gaming now
| that the Deck is moving units! :)
|
| [0] https://lutris.net/games/overwatch-2/
| darkteflon wrote:
| I suspect you already know this, but for anyone curious:
| for many of the big live service games, Linux/Proton is
| usually no substitute for Windows - anti-cheat renders
| them unplayable. MW2, Fortnite, Tarkov, Hunt, PUBG, Day Z
| and Cycle are some examples. By contrast, Apex and Halo
| work fine.
|
| I do quite a lot of my gaming on the Steam Deck these
| days, but have to keep a windows box around for this
| reason.
|
| Sort of relatedly: does anyone know how well the Unreal
| Engine 5 editor works on Linux?
| ElegantBeef wrote:
| Hunt, Dayz(as does Arma3 and Reforger), and The Cycle all
| work on Linux.
| Mike_12345 wrote:
| No. Overwatch is not on Steam. So you would need to mess
| around with Wine or Proton separately. Maybe it works,
| but it's not a single click installation.
| Mike_12345 wrote:
| For me it's the opposite experience. Easier to get Linux
| installed, no driver issues, no messing around, and my games
| Just Work on Steam/Proton without any tricks. Windows has
| more hassle with downloading/installing drivers and disabling
| crapware and forced ads in the OS before I can begin to use
| it.
| happymellon wrote:
| My wife is struggling with constant crashes in the new
| Harry Potter adventure game on the Deck.
|
| That's the only thing I have encountered though.
| 3836293648 wrote:
| There's a fix for that. Unfortunately it needs to be
| reapplied on every reboot:
|
| sudo sh -c "echo 1000000 > /proc/sys/vm/max_map_count"
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| > disabling crapware and forced ads in the OS
|
| Using the Pro version of Windows seems to have solved most
| of that. I'm on Win10 Pro, and when people talk about ads,
| I have no idea what they're talking about.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Same thing. I bought 10 pro, used a local account (that
| is now harder to do), turned off every switch on the next
| setup page (no cortana etc), and I had to right click ->
| banish the dumb tiles on the start menu, one of which was
| candy crush, and now it just looks like a normal Windows
| start menu from the bad old days.
|
| None of that should have been forced on me, and I don't
| like it, but it's not incessant like everyone seems to
| say.
| jjcm wrote:
| "with Windows 11 being kind of terrible"
|
| Curious what you dislike about it - I've felt the UX is a big
| improvement over 10 personally. Feels like they've adopted some
| patterns from OSX for the better. I use it less and less these
| days, but it works great for me as a gaming OS.
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| > I've felt the UX is a big improvement over 10 personally
|
| Meanwhile, I feel like every step since 7 has been been a
| downgrade.
|
| > Feels like they've adopted some patterns from OSX for the
| better.
|
| IMO, adopting patterns from OSX is a critical-severity bug,
| not a feature. Everything about the OSX UI is the worst thing
| I've ever used.
|
| Microsoft is abandoning a large userbase that chooses to use
| Windows _because it 's not MacOS_.
|
| I _hate_ having multiple windows from one program being
| collapsed into a single entry on the taskbar. I _hate_
| programs on the taskbar only showing their icon and not the
| window titlebar text. I _hate_ how flat everything looks.
|
| Screens are bigger and DPIs are higher, giving us more screen
| real estate than ever before, so why are we filling it with
| whitespace and hiding functionality?
|
| I'm still on Win10, and I use WindowBlinds to make it look
| like Win7 Classic. When I eventually am forced to upgrade to
| Win11 when I upgrade my CPU, I'll be using WindowBlinds11 and
| Start11 to continue to keep Windows looking sane.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > I hate having multiple windows from one program being
| collapsed into a single entry on the taskbar.
|
| Hyperswitch solves that for good.
|
| > I hate programs on the taskbar only showing their icon
| and not the window titlebar text.
|
| Not sure yet if I agree with that, given that HyperSwitch
| is giving me the best of both worlds - a window preview
| _and_ window titles.
|
| > I hate how flat everything looks.
|
| Windows is honestly worse. The new Settings "app" is...
| blargh.
| ztnktl wrote:
| > Feels like they've adopted some patterns from OSX for the
| better.
|
| No, Windows 11 is a cargo cult. It imitates the look of an OS
| X dock (centered icons, no window titles, large icons etc)
| but not the parts that makes it properly functional. Have you
| tried to drag and drop an app to make a shortcut there? It
| doesn't work. For that matter, many modern windows 11 things
| do not understand the very notion of drag and drop.
|
| By the way, the windows 11 taskbar has no quicklaunch.
| Without quicklaunch, you can't pin documents or folders to
| your taskbar.
|
| Mac OS X allows you to drag anything to the dock. App,
| folders, documents. In the case of folders, clicking them
| will even show you the last modified files in a quick preview
| list. The dock can't do everything a windows taskbar can do,
| but it has its own advantages.
|
| Windows 11's taskbar is, on the other hand, a dock with no
| advantages. There's nothing it does that makes it an
| improvement over what Windows 7 could already do (I cite
| windows 7 because it was the one that added most of the
| features that can make the taskbar feel more like OS X's
| dock, but those features, like grouped windows, were purely
| optional). You can't even have it on the sides of the screen
| anymore too. It was rewritten.. just for the sake of being
| rewritten. Developer churn at MS with no improvement on the
| user's side. Why?
|
| I, as a person who has dealt for many reasons regularly with
| all the major desktop OSes, hate Windows 11 the most for how
| arbitrary the loss of features has felt. I hate it almost as
| much as I hate Gnome 3, but one advantage Gnome 3 has is
| that... you don't have to use it, Linux has a lot of real
| desktops. KDE, XFCE, LXDE, customized tilers..
| henriquez wrote:
| Hate is such a strong word... I personally prefer Windows
| 11 to the jumbled mess that MacOS has recently become.
| Windows Subsystem for Linux is a major improvement over the
| BSD junk running on Macs. The tabloid headlines and Edge
| are annoying but it's easy enough to turn that stuff off.
| darzu wrote:
| Tabloids being forced upon you:
| https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-keeps-feeding-
| tabl...
|
| Microsoft account horribleness eg:
| https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/my-daughters-
| school-t...
|
| Win key being unbindable for app specific shortcuts.
|
| Windows update undoing all user preferences https://twitter.c
| om/rygorous/status/1504572255665201154?s=46...
|
| Janky crashes: https://twitter.com/litherum/status/1279164544
| 544157696?s=46...
|
| Forced internet accounts: https://twitter.com/rianflo/status/
| 1589346472335937536?s=46&...
|
| I could go on. A lot of these i found just searching "windows
| update" amongst people i follow on twitter.
| tapoxi wrote:
| And then you go into the Linux world where fractional
| scaling doesn't work properly yet, your XWayland apps
| interact differently than your Wayland apps, Chrome doesn't
| support hardware accelerated video decoding, and using
| Nvidia still requires you compile a kernel module and hope
| for the best. Oh, and you can't play most shooters since
| anti-cheats won't trust Linux.
|
| The grass isn't always greener. I just treat my PC as a
| dedicated gaming machine. Though these days the PS5 is
| becoming the more appealing option.
| Krssst wrote:
| At least those are not intentional, just lack of
| development time/resources. Knowing that somewhat brings
| me peace of mind. (and for the kernel module thing, the
| distro usually does it for you when the kernel is
| updated)
| the_gipsy wrote:
| Yea but it's not a company shoving hostile features down
| paying user's throats.
| rektide wrote:
| > _fractional scaling doesn 't work yet_
|
| Sway/wlroots and KDE support the fractional scaling
| extension. Seems to be an experimental setting in Gnome
| for now.
|
| > _your XWayland apps interact differently than your
| Wayland apps_
|
| How I can't wait for old legacy X stuff to no longer be a
| question. I feel like it's mostly Zoom & other randos
| holding me back from never seeing X again.
| https://arewewaylandyet.com/ is looking generally pretty
| excellent.
|
| > _Chrome doesn 't support hardware accelerated video
| decoding, and using Nvidia still requires you compile a
| kernel module_
|
| Vendors gonna do what a vendors gonna do. Chromium does
| have fine support. ChromeOS has been slowly ticking along
| adding their own support, which hopefully rolls-forward.
| https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/ozone-
| reviews/c/y...
|
| Nvidia people say things have gotten better but also you
| bought a card from a company that has forever been
| adversarial.
| bavell wrote:
| Good points but YMMV:
|
| - fraction scaling: I don't need it
|
| - Wayland: still using X
|
| - hardware accel: I think that's true for chromium but
| IIRC there's a package with it and widevine (google-
| chrome-stablevon Arch AUR)
|
| - nvidia: the AMD drivers are great and well supported
| (I've even been using ROCm to play with stable diffusion
| on my 6750XT)
|
| - shooters: I mostly play strategy, puzzle, sim and 2D
| games. Haven't run into multiplayer issues yet but I'm
| sure there are some in the FPS genre with heavy DRM
|
| Not for everyone but when I got my AMD card I stopped
| using my qemu virt-io VM w/ GPU passthrough and started
| using native steam with proton - much better experience
| all around and haven't booted windows ever since
| pizza234 wrote:
| > using Nvidia still requires you compile a kernel module
| and hope for the best
|
| There's nothing inherently wrong with having an out-of-
| tree kernel module; a lot of software has, including
| software that is open source but has an incompatible
| license.
|
| As far as I remember (I'm not on Nvidia anymore, but I've
| been for many years), the Nvidia module was one or two
| minor versions behind the latest release kernel, which is
| very reasonable support - for example, stable distros
| like Ubuntu LTS, or OpenZFS, are always a bit behind as
| well. I've actually changed filesystem because of this,
| but I certainly don't blame the OpenZFS devs.
| warning26 wrote:
| The built-in ads that are intentionally made difficult to
| disable is the major problem. That alone disqualifies it from
| being good, in my view.
| doublerabbit wrote:
| Advertising in start bar, Hidden lock-ins, difficulty with
| creating local accounts, features requiring internet 24/7.
| Dark UI patterns, forced applications just to name a few.
| Firmwarrior wrote:
| The only UX things they changed from Windows 10 to Windows 11
| were downgrades, so far as I can tell
|
| - You can't move the taskbar to the sides of the screen any
| more
|
| - The start menu is laggy now
|
| - There are more ads and forced tracking integrated into the
| OS
|
| I'm sure there's a lot of great stuff under the hood that got
| co-opted by whatever shortsighted idiot is in charge, but
| whatever it is, I'm not about to drop MacOS and linux to
| experience it
| skeaker wrote:
| Not to mention what is possibly the most asinine change
| I've ever seen in any UI revision of any software: Making
| the right click menu show you half the available options
| and requiring another click to view them all. Why?! It
| completely defeats the purpose of the right click menu as a
| convenient quick options menu. Nobody has ever said, "Man,
| right clicking is nice and all, but I wish I had to right
| click then left click on a More Options button then left
| click again." Just completely ridiculous.
| sho_hn wrote:
| This is not the first time Microsoft has done it, either.
|
| In one of the MS Office generations, perhaps Office 2000,
| they introduced "Personalized Menus" as a major
| innovation in attempt to make the software less
| overwhelming. The idea was that the menubar menus would
| only show the most-used menu items by default, and hide
| the rest behind a "More items" at the bottom. It would
| then learn usage patterns and adjust the menu contents
| over time.
|
| The result: Menu options disappearing seemingly randomly.
| Stuff you used rarely but relied on sometimes would
| suddenly not be where you found it last time.
|
| The Ribbon later was kind of a "it's not working, back to
| the drawing board" reaction to that.
|
| It's an interesting lesson in how "pseudo-intelligent"
| software can come at the cost of predictability. I once
| had to design tab nickname completion in a chat app, and
| remembering the MS Office anecdote I made it so that
| prefix<tab> would complete to the most recently active
| user matching the prefix, but that subsequent <tab>
| presses would go through the rest alphabetically instead,
| which also made a lot more sense to the testers.
| darknavi wrote:
| > - You can't move the taskbar to the sides of the screen
| any more
|
| Assuming this is what you meant, you can re-align the
| taskbar icons from center back to left in Settings.
|
| https://i.imgur.com/zmulgwG.png
| wtallis wrote:
| No, what they took away entirely is the ability to have
| the taskbar entirely on the side of the screen, with a
| vertical orientation. Now that they've settled on having
| just app icons in the taskbar rather than full window
| titles in wide buttons, a vertical taskbar at the side of
| the screen is a much better use of space on today's wide
| screens where vertical space is in short supply.
| theodric wrote:
| You used to be able to drag the taskbar to the sides
| (~like NeXTStep/BeOS) or the top (~like Mac OS). I assume
| GP means that functionality has departed to the great bit
| bucket in the sky now.
| Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote:
| The windows ten start menu is also laggy. I've also
| disabled and uninstalled as much crap as possible.
| hammyhavoc wrote:
| Can you quantify how the UX is an improvement?
|
| For me, the death of having a vertical taskbar makes an
| ultrawide display annoying. The centred-by-default icons of
| the taskbar kill muscle memory because opening applications
| moves icons along. Just seems an absurd thing. I could go on.
| [deleted]
| boston_clone wrote:
| Have to add my ick as a question: what time is it, to the
| second?
|
| This information is not available in any desktop or system
| clock configuration. You must either find the old analog
| clock buried in settings, or procure the information via
| command line. Maybe I'm wrong and they fixed it, but I
| haven't noticed any change.
| ed25519FUUU wrote:
| Been asking this question out loud for 20 years.
| warning26 wrote:
| Hah! Could this truly be the Year of the Linux Desktop(tm)?
| tadfisher wrote:
| Probably not while Ring-0 anticheat remains a thing. But we did
| get EAC ported, at least.
| vintermann wrote:
| I find that I can do just fine without all those
| rootkit-"anti cheat" games. I just don't see what they have
| that's worth that sort of corporate condescension and abuse.
| nerdponx wrote:
| The main issue for me is performance. Dota 2, which is "CPU-
| heavy" and has historically been very forgiving of low-spec
| hardware, ran poorly under Linux but runs flawlessly at max
| settings under Windows on the same machine.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Nope, as proven by OS/2 better Windows support.
| gs17 wrote:
| Game Pass is honestly the only thing keeping Windows installed
| on my gaming computer. If there was a way to use it on Linux,
| even if it was a bit hacky (or, say, didn't allow multiplayer),
| I would switch immediately.
| nine_k wrote:
| AFAICT so far "FreeBSD" is the Unix of choice for gaming, since
| it powers Playstation 4 and (apparently) 5. too.
|
| In quotes because the userland is, of course, heavily modified
| and proprietry.
| meibo wrote:
| That effectively doesn't matter, they could have also gone
| for Linux or written their own microkernel and it probably
| would be transparent to the user. They did choose FreeBSD
| because it's very safe, which the PS4's security track record
| has shown to be effective.
|
| Xbox now runs Windows NT, there hasn't been a great interest
| in hacking them due to low adoption and them allowing
| homebrew by default.
| nine_k wrote:
| They also chose BSD, I suppose, because it does not requite
| to upstream any special changes to it, which they likely
| made.
| ActorNightly wrote:
| Graphics drivers are still somewhat of a mess in Linux,
| especially with Nvidia. Also, compatibility of games is all
| over the place. Some games have platinum rating, and they run
| fine, but every one in a while you get a stuttering that you
| don't get on windows.
|
| Until all games start releasing native ports (which could
| happen given Steam Decks success), Win is going to stick
| around.
|
| Also Win 11 isn't that bad. I have the pro and you can turn off
| a lot of intrusive settings. All of my dev stuff lives in WSL2,
| including anything graphical since WSL2 now includes an X
| server that can render linux graphical apps), and it works
| perfectly even with ML.
| iamerroragent wrote:
| This raises a question I have about Win 11. Are the problems
| people are attributing to 11 because they use the Home
| edition or are these problems also found in the Pro edition?
|
| Seems like worldly different experiences.
|
| Regardless getting a Linux system up and running is still
| infinitely more pleasant (assuming hardware compatibility is
| already taken into account).
|
| Right now I'm deciding on getting a second drive since
| Windows doesn't like to play nice with duel booting from what
| I can tell. Also Microsoft fucked up the sound for Oblivion
| and Morrowind.
| theodric wrote:
| That's a HUGE assumption. I'm not some idiot neophyte who
| just migrated from a dumb phone yesterday; I've been
| running Linux since 1995. Debian 12 does not function on my
| Ryzen 7 5700G + Biostar B550M + RTX A2000 system-- it's
| nothing exotic! Neither does the stock Arch kernel, nor
| linux-rt, but linux-amd and my custom kernels do. I got it
| going, and I got VFIO passthrough working as well, but it
| took effort as well as knowledge normal users can't
| reasonably be expected to possess. Expecting people to buy
| based on an HCL is not reasonable, and that's half of why
| it will never be the year of Linux on the desktop. (The
| other half is the desktop being a dying breed, sadly.)
| iamerroragent wrote:
| Okay but insert Linux USB drive; boot; install; system
| works. That's literally been my experience and for many
| others.
|
| A Hardware Compatibility List (HCL) is completely
| reasonable in my opinion for building your own machine
| and it's well known that Nvidia and Linux don't play
| nice. Recently built a new system and went with AMD for
| that reason. Considered Intel but they're a little new to
| GPUs and were a little too mid range for what I wanted.
|
| Frankly it sounds more like you had issue with the Nvidia
| card than the rest of your components.
|
| Also have to consider are you trying to use completely
| free open source software or are you okay with
| proprietary blobs and drivers.
|
| For example Ubtuntu makes it easy for end user to
| activate those proprietary software blobs on
| installation.
| vkazanov wrote:
| As somebody who never even had a windows machine back in
| late 90s (my father was also a massive linux enthusiast)
| I can totally see your point. Ah, compiling the kernel...
|
| Anyways, there are some decent oem options these days.
| Even if you dislike preinstalled distros, hardware
| compatibility is guaranteed to be there.
|
| It just can't work any other way. Either vendors solve
| those compatibility problems for you, or you do it. I
| don't have much time so I went with the easier option of
| just getting dells or lenovos or simething from the
| numerous smaller sellers.
|
| Both my wife and my daughter are fine with my older
| hardware, btw.
| smoldesu wrote:
| > especially with Nvidia.
|
| How so? I'm using Plasma's Wayland session on a 3070ti and
| have very few complaints. The only issues I've seen are some
| weird Java GUI apps and that GTK4 text rendering issue that
| just won't go away. None of the "stuttering that you don't
| get on windows" that you're citing, I can count the number of
| dropped frames in most titles on one hand. Did you ever give
| Wayland a proper try?
|
| > Until all games start releasing native ports
|
| Why? Win32 is covered reasonably well with Wine, I see no
| reason in my experience why a completely-native runtime is
| required. It's certainly not needed to get the vast majority
| of Windows games running on Linux.
| Mike_12345 wrote:
| > Until all games start releasing native ports
|
| More realistically, game devs can target Proton as a
| platform, making sure it works on that.
| ElectricalUnion wrote:
| > Until all games start releasing native ports
|
| Games on Steam don't run "native" most of the time to begin
| with; you can more or less always expect some random mix of
| "steam runtime" + "pressure vessel" + "environment provided"
| of containerization + i686 shared libraries on your (usual)
| "native" amd64 system.
|
| I don't see how that is different from running stuff under
| Proton.
| k4ch0w wrote:
| I can't wait for this day. The day I can run any new release on
| Linux, I will be off windows forever.
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