[HN Gopher] Starship Flight Test [video]
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Starship Flight Test [video]
        
       Author : somenameforme
       Score  : 206 points
       Date   : 2023-04-17 07:34 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
        
       | huhtenberg wrote:
       | Scrubbed due to the pressurization issue with the first stage.
       | 
       | Will finish fueling and stop the clock at T-3.
        
       | orbital-decay wrote:
       | Back in the days rockets were more or less unique, because the
       | tech was new and every bit of efficiency mattered. But the common
       | trope among the designers was always "launch on a modular rocket,
       | assembly from pieces in LEO, depart anywhere". And orbital
       | assembly and modular launchers have followed in 1980s/90s, when
       | the extreme optimization didn't matter so much anymore.
       | 
       | It's interesting to see SpaceX taking the path of a custom-
       | tailored launcher again, trying to integrate everything as
       | tightly as possible (especially speaking of their direct Mars
       | flight concept). This would probably be impossible to scale
       | without designing a new system from scratch, so they have to get
       | everything right. Kind of the Amiga of the spaceflight.
        
         | WastingMyTime89 wrote:
         | > But the common trope among the designers was always "launch
         | on a modular rocket, assembly from pieces in LEO, depart
         | anywhere".
         | 
         | It's a design constraint imposed by the reality of launching
         | from Earth. It puts an upper bound on how much weight you can
         | send at one time. That's pretty much the only choice until we
         | can manufacture directly in space.
        
           | robryk wrote:
           | What's the source of the constraint on rocket size that you
           | refer to?
        
             | mrguyorama wrote:
             | The tyranny of the rocket equation means it starts to get
             | crazy if you can't improve the payload fraction and want to
             | send up more mass. I don't think there is a literal upper
             | limit, but you very quickly get to the point where a few
             | extra kilograms means you have to double the size of your
             | rocket.
        
               | robryk wrote:
               | But that doesn't limit the rocket size in any way, only
               | the fraction of its mass that can be used for payload.
               | That limit does not depend on total mass of the rocket.
               | Is there something that makes larger rockets less
               | feasible than smaller rockets with the same payload mass
               | fraction?
        
               | cubefox wrote:
               | Isn't Starship planned to launch 100 tons into LEO, just
               | with a two stage rocket, and with both stages being
               | reusable? I don't know the numbers but this seems to
               | suggest efficiency (cost per ton to orbit) improves with
               | increasingly large rockets.
               | 
               | (Though I imagine there could be a size sweet spot beyond
               | which efficiency shrinks again.)
        
               | WastingMyTime89 wrote:
               | And it needs to refuel to get to Mars despite being the
               | largest rocket ever built and an incredible feet of
               | engineering. The limits are height and space to put
               | engines under it.
        
         | panick21_ wrote:
         | > "launch on a modular rocket, assembly from pieces in LEO,
         | depart anywhere"
         | 
         | That's still what they are doing, its just that the pieces are
         | fuel.
         | 
         | > This would probably be impossible to scale without designing
         | a new system from scratch
         | 
         | Its not like the amiga of space flight, its like cloud. Instead
         | of horizontal scaling, its vertical scaling. Instead of of
         | building bigger, you just build more and scale that way.
         | 
         | They will add like 10m to the Starship, there is some
         | horizontal scale left.
        
         | bluesm wrote:
         | Explain Amiga analogy please.
        
           | philistine wrote:
           | The Amiga had a litany of custom chips to achieve its
           | incredible performance. The Mac and PC used far less custom
           | ICs.
        
             | squarefoot wrote:
             | > The Amiga had a litany of custom chips to achieve its
             | incredible performance.
             | 
             | Exactly, and with PC technology rapidly catching up,
             | updating them to a level on par with the latest VGA and
             | sound cards was an enormous effort that didn't kill
             | Commodore (internal mismanagement did) but came too late to
             | save them. First prototypes of the AAA chipset are
             | mentioned and visible in the famous "Deathbed Vigil" video
             | shot by Dave Haynie himself at the C= headquarters in West
             | Chester PA when the company was already belly up. I would
             | highly recommend watching it also to non ex Amiga users,
             | also for interesting vintage technical content, but keep
             | tissues ready in case you were.
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaTjwo1ywcI
        
         | simonh wrote:
         | The heavy booster can be the same, and any mission beyond LEO
         | will require refuelling, and the tankers can be standardised.
         | 
         | I think the terminal mission component is always going to have
         | to be customised to the mission type. A Lunar lander and Mars
         | lander are very different beasts, but even just basing those on
         | a basic Starship hull is a big win over completely custom from
         | scratch systems such as the Blue Origin lunar lander.
        
         | GuB-42 wrote:
         | The big idea with Starship, at least for missions going beyond
         | LEO is to drop upper stages in LEO as fuel tanks and use them
         | to fuel the "payload" Starship. In the Artemis mission, it is
         | supposed to take astronauts from the Orion capsule, land them
         | on the moon and back to Orion, with talks about a "gateway"
         | space station. So Starship definitely follows the modular /
         | orbital assembly principle.
         | 
         | The idea of purely modular launchers (like OTRAG) never really
         | took of. Armadillo Aerospace tried to capitalize on that idea,
         | but they never really went beyond John Carmack's hobby project.
         | All attempts at anything but "extreme optimization" failed,
         | including the other end of the spectrum with the humongous Sea
         | Dragon. That's because of the so called "tyranny of the rocket
         | equation" and considerations like the square-cube law.
        
           | orbital-decay wrote:
           | What I meant is not things like OTRAG (which was an
           | abomination indeed), but practical configurable launchers
           | unified to the certain degree into a family. Think Delta IV,
           | Atlas V, Angara, or even Falcon 9, which is the only
           | surviving rocket from the family that was originally planned.
           | 
           | The reason modularity of that kind wasn't especially
           | successful isn't the tyranny of the rocket equation, but the
           | economy. Turned out the launch market is too small to
           | capitalize on fringe cases, and the added flexibility simply
           | haven't outweighed the loss in efficiency. When the
           | modularity was starting to pick up steam, most thought that
           | the market will expand much faster, and few people expected
           | Iridium to be a miserable failure, for example.
        
       | pil0u wrote:
       | Could anyone provide a good explanation about "pressurisation
       | issue"? What happened?
        
         | chasd00 wrote:
         | from what i understand when there's a leak in a valve the
         | pressure drop causes ice to form on the outside near the leak.
         | If the ice gets so thick as to impact the actuator it can get
         | stuck in its current position. The motor/hydraulics or whatever
         | is used to physically turn the valve can't break the ice so
         | it's just stuck.
         | 
         | so someone probably needs to go find the valve and figure out
         | what's leaking and either put in a new one or tighten the bolts
         | a bit more :)
        
         | dan1234 wrote:
         | According to an Elon tweet it was due to a frozen valve.
        
       | perihelions wrote:
       | - _" Cryogenic propellant load of Starship is underway, liftoff
       | in T minus 1 hour"_
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1647937628808040448
       | 
       | NSF has their own livestream already running (watching the
       | propellant loading):
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN57x2a_waw
        
         | earthscienceman wrote:
         | Could NASA not have chosen the acronym for the oldest science
         | funding institution in the US for this?
        
           | DerpyBaby123 wrote:
           | From their 'about' page:
           | 
           | NASASpaceFlight is not affiliated with and does not represent
           | the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA).
           | NASA initials used with NASA's permission.
        
             | cubefox wrote:
             | The name certainly is confusing for newcomers...
        
       | osigurdson wrote:
       | Scrubbed for today
        
       | dwaltrip wrote:
       | For those who don't know, Starship is the first fully-reusable
       | orbital rocket.
       | 
       | If they manage to get it working as designed, it would radically
       | change the economics of going to space. You can imagine the
       | savings from not having to rebuild your vehicle after every use.
       | 
       | This would be a paradigm-shift and would likely cause a massive
       | boom in human space activity. Space tourism and in-orbit
       | manufacturing are two commonly discussed use cases that would
       | become far more economical. Existing use cases such as remote
       | sensing and communication would expand.
       | 
       | All this could cause positive feedback loops of innovation, cost
       | reduction, induced demand, and so on. A new era of human space
       | activity. That's what all the hubbub is about.
       | 
       | P.S. Not to mention the _slightly_ more far-fetched possibility
       | of human settlements on Mars...
        
         | hwillis wrote:
         | I wrote this 5 years ago, but it's still relevant:
         | 
         | The Falcon 9 is $62 million, or $2,719 per kg to LEO. The
         | Falcon Heavy is $2,351 per kg when expendable or $1,411 when
         | reused.
         | 
         | The BFR is supposed to have 2.5x the payload for 8% of the
         | cost: _$46 per kilogram_. Even fully expendable it 's $2,233
         | per kg. That's INSANE. It's space elevator money:
         | 
         | > [For a space elevator, the cost varies according to the
         | design. Bradley C. Edwards received funding from NIAC from 2001
         | to 2003 to write a paper,[8] describing a space elevator
         | design. In it he stated that: "The first space elevator would
         | reduce lift costs immediately to $100 per pound" ($220/kg).](ht
         | tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator_economics)
         | 
         | If the BFR actually becomes reality it turns a journey to orbit
         | into an airplane ride. A $10,000 airplane ride that will shake
         | your fillings loose, but make no mistake: that completely
         | changes everything about space. It makes putting satellites in
         | orbit around Jupiter as hard as visiting the north pole.
         | Fucking TV hosts will be able to go for a quick jaunt around
         | the moon.
         | 
         | If the BFR happens, we'll have a mars base just because it
         | would be so cheap it's a no-brainer. Building a new ISS would
         | be about as hard as building a new Sealab.
        
           | thinkmassive wrote:
           | For those who are confused about the acronym, as I was:
           | 
           | BFR was the code-name for Starship, short for Big Falcon
           | Rocket
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Starship_development#.
           | ..
        
             | _justinfunk wrote:
             | Yes, the "F" definitely stands for Falcon
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | ccorcos wrote:
             | It's also a play on the BFG from Doom, aka Big Fucking Gun
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BFG_(weapon)
        
         | benj111 wrote:
         | All this was promised from falcon though.
         | 
         | I don't doubt theres potential savings, I'm dubious that we'll
         | see order of magnitude cost reductions. Escaping earth's
         | gravity is always going to be hard.
        
           | DennisP wrote:
           | That was not promised from Falcon. The upper stage is not
           | reusable and is 20% of the hardware cost, so at best Falcon
           | could reduce costs by a factor of five. Plus it runs a
           | dirtier fuel so it needs more refurbishment. What they did
           | expect from Falcon is to be significantly cheaper than any
           | other major launch provider, and they achieved that, but
           | there's only so far you can go when you're building a whole
           | new upper stage for every launch.
           | 
           | Orbit is hard but the actual fuel cost is not all that high.
           | If you have a rocket that's cheap to build, and you can
           | amortize that cost over a large number of launches, you're
           | mostly just paying fuel and ground services.
        
             | bryanlarsen wrote:
             | They did have a fully reusable Falcon program that got
             | cancelled to concentrate on BFR.
             | 
             | https://youtu.be/sWFFiubtC3c
        
               | cubefox wrote:
               | Interesting.
        
           | dotnet00 wrote:
           | Falcon 9 never promised full reusability, only first stage
           | reuse, and it did cause a large reduction in launch costs, as
           | well as pretty obviously representing a paradigm shift
           | considering all the other reusable rockets in development,
           | the surge in funding for space tech startups and
           | megaconstellations becoming practical for private entities.
           | 
           | To emphasize that last point, on the back of Falcon 9,
           | Starlink represents over half of all satellites in orbit and
           | Falcon 9 itself accounts for nearly half of all orbital
           | launches in the past 2-3 years. The lower costs are also
           | evident from the fact that many lower budget NASA missions
           | which would have previously had to rideshare ended up just
           | getting a dedicated F9 for less than the rideshare would've
           | cost.
        
             | mabbo wrote:
             | Falcon 9 had "second stage reusability" the same way that
             | Tesla has full self-driving. That was _the plan_ , but then
             | it turned out to be really hard.
             | 
             | But at least with SpaceX, they simply gave up and said they
             | were focusing efforts elsewhere.
        
               | avmich wrote:
               | BFR is more capable than Falcon, it's only natural to
               | invest in projects with better prospects.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | dexterdog wrote:
               | > Falcon 9 had "second stage reusability" the same way
               | that Tesla has full self-driving.
               | 
               | So it's in version 11 of the beta?
        
               | 93po wrote:
               | imagine the meme of two button options to press with the
               | dude sweating over which to choose, and one is "tesla
               | released FSD too fast" and the other is "tesla is keeping
               | FSD in beta forever"
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | cubefox wrote:
               | Though it should be mentioned that SpaceX currently no
               | longer pursues Starship upper stage reusability, as the
               | upcoming upper stage prototypes do no longer have a heat
               | shield. Is seems likely that they want to first finalize
               | lower stage reuse, as it is likely much more expensive to
               | produce.
        
               | DennisP wrote:
               | That just means they're not testing reentry in the next
               | several flights. They have a new heat shield design that
               | will fly later.
        
               | _kst_ wrote:
               | Without a heat shield, Starship wouldn't be able to bring
               | a crew back from orbit (or higher), regardless of reuse.
               | 
               | Starship HLS, the planned lunar landing version, probably
               | won't need a heat shield, but they'll definitely need
               | shielding on any version meant to bring a crew back to
               | Earth. They're just not bothering with heat shielding for
               | tests that don't need it.
               | 
               | (I don't know what kind of shielding the Starship that
               | was supposed to launch today has.)
        
           | hwillis wrote:
           | The Delta Heavy is $12,340 per kg to LEO. Saturn V was
           | ~$8,800 in current costs. Falcon Heavy is $1,411 per kg when
           | reused.
           | 
           | For a $10 million launch, Starship would cost $67 per kg.
           | Musk has said costs could come down to 1-2 million, although
           | I would disregard that given the cost of the fuel is ~$1
           | million.
           | 
           | Musk is absolutely utterly dismissive of marginal costs like
           | support and maintenance, but $20-30 million per amortized
           | launch ($134-$200 per kg) does not seem _that_ crazy. The
           | structure and materials of the rocket are _absurdly_ cheaper
           | than the Falcon Heavy, and the cost of getting all that on a
           | pad is pretty much constant. The Heavy has 27 Merlin engines,
           | Starship has 33 Raptor engines. If it really is that much
           | cheaper and that much cheaper to refly, a 10x reduction is
           | definitely possible.
        
             | benj111 wrote:
             | All that assumes a market for a rocket as big as starship
             | though.
             | 
             | If you're still stuck launching the same kind of payloads
             | as smaller rockets then the benefit will be smaller.
             | 
             | For a rocket like starship to make sense you need an ~
             | order of magnitude increase in the market which isn't a
             | given.
             | 
             | If you look at large jets, that wasn't the future. On the
             | other hand cargo shipping seems to be heading that way, so
             | I'll accept it could go either way, I'm just not convinced.
             | 
             | I just have a feeling this is more akin to musk buying
             | Twitter, than musk landing a first stage falcon for the
             | first time.
        
               | ls612 wrote:
               | The market even at $300 per kg (if the starship
               | eventually costs what Falcon costs) is dramatically
               | different from the market today.
        
               | benj111 wrote:
               | Is that a given?
               | 
               | What's the driver of satellite size? Is it the size of
               | current rockets? Cube says etc would tend to point the
               | other way.
               | 
               | What the total cost of a satellite? Fine sending a 1
               | tonne satellite to space costs $300k but if it still
               | costs $x million to build the thing you're still looking
               | at a select group who can afford it.
               | 
               | Taking those 2 things together how many organisations
               | will opt for the absolute cheapest option giving up the
               | ability to get a dedicated launch to a given orbit?
               | 
               | What are these new markets? Is asteroid mining going to
               | become economically viable? Is lunar exploration going to
               | be profitable? It's cheap to get to the middle of the
               | Atlantic, it isn't exactly a hive of economic activity
               | though. Yes there's starlink, but that has downsides
               | relative to wired alternatives so the market is always
               | going to be limited. Yes starlink is a massive expansion
               | of the space economy, but that just highlights how small
               | the space economy was and is, which just raises the
               | question of whether such a massive rocket like starship
               | will be able to be supported.
               | 
               | 'build it and they will come' sounds nice, but it isn't a
               | given.
        
               | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
               | Part of the insane costs of satellites comes from the
               | launch cost: If the launch is expensive, the satellite
               | needs to work, and it needs to last. If every kg you
               | launch is $$$, it's worth using much more expensive
               | materials to make it lighter.
               | 
               | If the launch is closer to the price of shipping a parcel
               | internationally, you can cut a lot of corners. No more
               | specially optimized titanium parts where cheap sheet
               | metal will do. No more space-rated parts at 100x markup,
               | launch with off the shelf parts, see what fails, and
               | iterate based on that.
               | 
               | No more designing for super redundancy and quintuple-
               | checking everything, if it fails let it fall out of orbit
               | and send up a new one (LEO satellites deorbit reasonably
               | quickly, so not a major "orbital waste" concern).
        
             | cubefox wrote:
             | It depends also on how often they can reuse the lower and
             | upper stage, and how large the difference between launch
             | cost and launch price will be. As far as I know, only China
             | is currently developing a rocket comparable to Starship
             | (Long March 9) and it will not compete with Starship for
             | customers. So if there are indeed large internal cost cuts
             | for Starship, large price cuts seem to be wishful thinking.
        
         | idlewords wrote:
         | "If"
        
           | dwaltrip wrote:
           | It's a medium-sized if. So many people said they couldn't
           | land the Falcon-9 booster.
           | 
           | Ignoring the mars stuff, the vision isn't that crazy, given
           | their track record.
           | 
           | Biggest questions in my mind are: how rapidly reusable will
           | it actually be (e.g. refurbishment costs), how expensive will
           | it be to scale up the ground systems and launch
           | infrastructure, and what the induced demand will actually
           | look like.
           | 
           | I'm taking for granted that they will be able to land the
           | Super Heavy booster. It doesn't seem that much of a leap from
           | what they have done before.
        
         | bayesian_horse wrote:
         | If Starship flies as often as Musk says, one Starship would
         | take one year to bring as much mass into orbit as everything
         | ever launched before. Something like that or so I heard.
        
       | jacknews wrote:
       | It is not an orbital test.
        
         | sebzim4500 wrote:
         | It's an orbital test in that it tests the capability of the
         | system to reach orbit. It is not an orbital test in that it
         | does not actually achieve orbit.
        
         | mabbo wrote:
         | It's _almost_ an orbital test. It 's so close that in theory
         | they could accidentally make it an orbital test if they fired
         | the engines for a tiny bit extra.
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | There are some tests that are not orbital tests because there
         | is a lack of technical capability of the launch article.
         | 
         | In this case they are shutting off the rocket early so they
         | don't reach orbital speeds in the case they lose contact with
         | starship (in the very unlikely case it makes it to space) as it
         | circles the Earth. This avoids a second burn on the test unit
         | to pull it out of orbit where you could possibly end up with an
         | out of control descent in to places not of your choosing.
        
       | ragebol wrote:
       | Excitement guaranteed!
       | 
       | My bet is that it won't launch today and that when it does in a
       | few days, some Starship's heat tiles somehow fall off and the
       | reentry fails.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | sebzim4500 wrote:
         | As it turns out, excitement was not guaranteed.
        
         | zpeti wrote:
         | Just playing devil's advocate, literally everyone is worried
         | about the tiles so surely they aren't launching without massive
         | confidence that they are working properly? Or have the team
         | said that there are still issues with the tiling?
        
           | cubefox wrote:
           | Their upcoming upper stage prototypes don't have a heat
           | shield anymore, and the FAA launch license mentions that they
           | won't survive reentry. So reentry of the upper stage doesn't
           | seem to be their focus in the foreseeable future. They are
           | probably more interested in making the lower stage reusable,
           | since it has many more (expensive) engines than the upper
           | stage.
        
           | ragebol wrote:
           | They are not required for making orbit I suppose, only for
           | safe reentry. But can't know how well it all works without
           | trying, so going even if confidence is not perfect.
           | 
           | But I guess they're pretty confident.
        
           | manquer wrote:
           | The next two prototypes already being built for a while now
           | do not have tiling in them , that doesn't suggest there is
           | confidence in the design is final and stable .
           | 
           | The addition delay and opportunity cost [1] [2] in perfecting
           | re-entry is probably not worth it , I.e. better to launch now
           | without second stage reentry than get it perfect and then
           | launch
           | 
           | [1] Starlinks on F9
           | 
           | [2] not being able to launch full v2 higher mass and volume
           | on current gen
        
             | HPsquared wrote:
             | Even without the tiles, they can probably still test
             | several parts of the reentry process. Just not once it gets
             | too hot...
        
             | XorNot wrote:
             | They also don't need the tiles for the moon lander Starship
             | variant.
        
               | sebzim4500 wrote:
               | True but without being able to reuse the tanker the
               | mission would be ridiculously expensive by SpaceX
               | standards.
        
               | Kye wrote:
               | There might be a point where they get cost low enough to
               | trade some of those savings for things like simplifying
               | engineering and increasing launch cadence.
        
         | ragebol wrote:
         | Sometimes it's not nice to bet and 'win'. A few days to wait...
        
       | Gustomaximus wrote:
       | The boat removal requirement seems open to abuse of people
       | attempting to 'protest' Musk, especially considering his post
       | twitter profile these days where they might conflate unrelated
       | grievances with him to SpaceX.
       | 
       | I wonder if they need to change the rules so 'a reasonable
       | attempt' to remove and inform people needs to be made only.
       | 
       | No doubt some people involved have discussed this one.
        
         | DennisP wrote:
         | Wouldn't be that easy to abuse, the Coast Guard is involved.
        
           | Gustomaximus wrote:
           | I suspect it would. Off the cuff, one or more jet skis
           | sitting outside of limited zone til ~10min before then goes
           | for it. Would be hard to round up fast, especially if a
           | handful of them.
           | 
           | Im sure if people put their heads to it and knew the area
           | they could do something.
        
         | chasd00 wrote:
         | it's so close to a public road, if you're fast you could
         | probably run in and handcuff yourself to the OLM before anyone
         | catches you.
        
         | bandyaboot wrote:
         | I really don't see that happening. Perhaps an environmentalist
         | group could think of doing that if they decide to take issue
         | with these launches--that would definitely be in character.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Aeolun wrote:
       | Well, that was anticlimactic...
        
       | sva_ wrote:
       | Leave it to HN to have 2/3 of the thread arguing about timezones.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | cubefox wrote:
         | We are programmers after all! We care a lot about things like
         | timezones, fonts, and date formats.
        
           | niccl wrote:
           | and me, in NZ, trying to tell a friend exactly when the
           | launch window opened: 12:00 UTC on 2023-04-17 translates to
           | midnight on the night between 17/4/2023 and 18/4/2023 NZ
           | time. I ended up telling the friend that the window opened
           | 00:01 2023-04-18 NZT, because that got rid of the 00:00
           | ambiguity
        
       | mabbo wrote:
       | The part that seems to be unexpectedly really hard is getting to
       | and successful at ignition of stage 2.
       | 
       | Relativity Space recently had a failure with their Terran 1
       | launcher on its first and only test fight because stage 2 failed
       | to correctly ignite. Virgin Orbital (RIP) had a similar second
       | stage failure. Astra lost their rocket 3 last year when the
       | second stage failed to separate from the first stage correctly.
       | 
       | Those companies had good engineers who had thought they had every
       | edge case covered.
       | 
       | Space is hard!
       | 
       | Godspeed Starship.
        
         | chriswarbo wrote:
         | SpaceX as well, with their original Falcon 1 (demonstration
         | rocket, before they secured funding to pursue Falcon 9)
        
         | sebzim4500 wrote:
         | >Those companies had good engineers who had thought they had
         | every edge case covered.
         | 
         | I doubt anyone at Relativity thought they had every edge case
         | covered. From my understanding, they consider the flight to
         | have exceeded expectations.
        
           | sbuttgereit wrote:
           | Yeah, that test was really about proving that their 3D
           | printed rocket components could withstand the forces of
           | launch. Once they got past Max Q successfully, that test was
           | completed successfully... anything else would have been
           | gravy.
        
       | BenoitP wrote:
       | Scrub reason (from Elon's twitter): "A pressurant valve appears
       | to be frozen, so unless it starts operating soon, no launch
       | today"
       | 
       | T-2: New launch attempt in min 48h
       | 
       | T-8: Launch scrubbed (pressurization issue), still proceeding on
       | some things for rehearsal
       | 
       | T-15: Pressurization issue on stage 1, but the countdown
       | continues. Still one boat to remove from area
        
         | fallingknife wrote:
         | In terms of boats encroaching into the exclusion zone it should
         | be fuck around and find out IMO. Crazy to cancel a huge and
         | expensive launch just because one idiot can't follow the rules.
        
           | ricardobeat wrote:
           | That doesn't work though - without consequences you'd have
           | hundreds of idiots wanting to fuck around and find out, with
           | kids on tow, because freedom.
        
             | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
             | Then launch _and_ issue severe fines to discourage them.
             | 
             | Or just let them. The sea is big, it's not going to hit
             | _that_ many. Not everything needs to be 100% safe. We let
             | people chase storms, or fly wingsuits (1 death per 500
             | jumps, according to [1]). We also have ways to deal with
             | parents who endanger their children past what we as society
             | consider acceptable.
             | 
             | [1] https://explorersweb.com/wingsuiting-dance-with-death/
        
         | chasd00 wrote:
         | in an earlier thread i half joked going to Matamoros and paying
         | a fisherman $50 to take you out to see the launch. just for the
         | record, that boat in the area is not me! ;)
        
         | philjohn wrote:
         | Saying 48 hours now.
        
           | jordanreger wrote:
           | Weather is also poor for the rest of the week so I doubt
           | launch will be within a couple days
        
         | rippercushions wrote:
         | Update: it will be a minimum of 48 hours until they can try
         | again. Maybe the rocket will get high on 4/20 after all.
         | 
         | Elon is now saying there was a frozen valve, which seems fairly
         | tractable.
        
           | yuppiepuppie wrote:
           | This would not be out of character for Elon
        
             | dang wrote:
             | Please let's not have another boo-vs.-yay $celebrity war.
             | It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is
             | for.
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | TOMDM wrote:
         | earliest window for a new attempt is 48 hours, not tomorrow.
        
       | codeulike wrote:
       | T-16 minutes: livestream mentioned some sort of pressure issue on
       | the first stage, they're looking into it, might be a scrub
       | 
       | edit: but in the meantime preparation continues
        
         | twoodfin wrote:
         | Now scrubbed.
        
         | pliny wrote:
         | launch scrubbed
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | As others have said, scrub on liftoff, a wet dress rehearsal
         | will occur.
        
       | nmca wrote:
       | Apparently launch is planned for 8am CT / 2pm BST
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1647767704177192961?t=9e-I...
        
         | aaron695 wrote:
         | 13:00 UTC even
         | 
         | Coverage starts at 12:15 UTC
        
           | iruoy wrote:
           | 15:00 CEST (Central European Summer Time)
           | 
           | For all us Europeans
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | Ekaros wrote:
             | 16:00 EEST (Eastern European Summer Time)
             | 
             | For the always left out Europeans...
        
         | usrnm wrote:
         | 13:00 UTC
        
           | jacknews wrote:
           | Thank You
        
         | geuis wrote:
         | So weird no one else put this in standard American times,
         | considering its an American launch.                 6am PST
         | West coast       7am Mountain time       8am Central time
         | 9am Eastern standard time
        
           | victor96 wrote:
           | Early start for anyone on the west coast
        
           | riffic wrote:
           | daylight time would be correct for this time of year
        
           | downvotetruth wrote:
           | 9 AM EDT = 8 AM EST
        
           | Narkov wrote:
           | Or perhaps a global time, such as UTC, given the global
           | audience?
        
             | geuis wrote:
             | I'm just recognizing the facts of the planet we live in.
             | Lots of interested parties are in the US, so it makes sense
             | to also simply add US times. Especially considering its a
             | US company (hopefully) launching from US soil.
        
               | tulio_ribeiro wrote:
               | I'm so surprised that a country who still clings to the
               | imperial system would have any clue about UTC, the time
               | standard that the rest of the world uses.
               | 
               | The launch is scheduled to 1300 UTC, for us engineering
               | folks.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | UTC (Zulu) is universally used by airplane people. Most
               | have at least heard of it, even if they don't easily do
               | the math.
        
               | Titan2189 wrote:
               | "airplane people" - technical term
        
               | geuis wrote:
               | Its currently 6:10pm in Beijing. Its also 6:10pm
               | everywhere else in China
               | (https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/china).
               | 
               | Because that's a country that doesn't use the imperial
               | system and still insists its the same time as the eastern
               | capital no matter where else in the country people happen
               | to be.
               | 
               | Lets also mention that China is almost the same width as
               | the US, probably larger to be fair.
        
               | ricardobeat wrote:
               | It probably pays off in efficiency.
               | 
               | I was gonna say it must be weird to see solar noon at
               | 3pm, or live in one of the western provinces and have
               | sunrise at 4:30pm / sunset at 9-10pm for part of the
               | year, but that describes life in the Netherlands too.
        
               | tssva wrote:
               | The US doesn't use the imperial system.
        
               | ianai wrote:
               | Going back, I have a clear memory of big events with
               | global viewership being typically advertised with
               | multiple time zones at a time. It was almost a bit of a
               | marketing gag even for financial firms to have a ton of
               | clocks up with labels displaying many different time
               | zones.
               | 
               | So yes, no reason to chose 1 time zone and force readers
               | to do mental math. Just list "London: , Tokyo: , Sydney:
               | , LA: , NYC: , Lagos: , Singapore: , Mumbai: " etc.
        
               | mlatu wrote:
               | at least they could have used good old internet time.
               | 
               | @490
        
             | fnordpiglet wrote:
             | Come on folks. It's time to start using star dates.
        
             | TinkersW wrote:
             | We don't really use UTC in the US, so for most Americans it
             | wouldn't actually tell them much of anything. EST & PST are
             | the most common.
        
               | baq wrote:
               | Nobody elsewhere does either but everyone knows their
               | offset, or at least should around here... this is clearly
               | an event of worldwide importance, so adding a few more
               | timestamps wouldn't hurt
        
               | macintux wrote:
               | > EST & PST are the most common.
               | 
               | Which is maddening because most of the year it's EDT &
               | PDT but people still reference them wrong, even in
               | marketing and corporate communications where they really
               | should know better.
        
           | self_awareness wrote:
           | Europe/Warsaw: 15:00 CEST (UTC+2)
        
           | explaininjs wrote:
           | No way I'm the first pedant on HN to comment PST should be
           | PDT (same for EST). The numbers are correct though.
        
           | swarnie wrote:
           | 96% of the world isn't US-American.
        
             | geuis wrote:
             | Yep, you are correct.
             | 
             | But 100% of the launch is an American company out of
             | American territory. And the majority of the users of Hacker
             | News are also based in the US.
             | 
             | So for this audience, considering the other facts, I don't
             | see why people are having a problem with an extra comment
             | that simply posts the relevant launch times in terms easier
             | to understand at a glance for an American audience.
        
               | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
               | > And the majority of the users of Hacker News are also
               | based in the US.
               | 
               | Is this really the case?
               | 
               | Even if it's true, I wouldn't say this is anything to be
               | proud of or something to uphold. Why not use
               | international standards to make the place more welcoming
               | the the majority of the world?
        
               | chronic2803 wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | ricardobeat wrote:
               | https://toolhub.tech/blog/Demographics-of-Hacker-News/
               | 
               | The USA accounts for 41% of users according to this site.
        
               | helli8390 wrote:
               | > Why not use international standards to make the place
               | more welcoming the the majority of the world?
               | 
               | How do you think the US or China became leading world
               | superpowers? By welcoming every standard and culture of
               | the world?
               | 
               | Oh wait, that is Europe. And look what happened to them.
               | (Spoiler: they are not number 1 any more)
        
               | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
               | Huh? I don't think Hacker News aims to become a
               | superpower. What's the relevance?
        
               | ta1243 wrote:
               | Yet you decide to ignore multiple American timezones
               | including Puerto Rico, Hawaii, Alaska, Samoa, Guam and
               | Wake Island
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | geuis wrote:
               | @ta1243 its 2:40am PST. Sorry I can't reply to you
               | directly, apparently HN has some comment thread depth
               | limits. (Who knew?) Yeah sorry I forgot to include all of
               | the time zones covering the entire country and its
               | possessions.
               | 
               | Post edit. I'm not sure what you want. All I did was post
               | the 4 standard American time zones that affect most of
               | the somewhat 330 million Americans living in the
               | continental part of the country.
               | 
               | Why is the original timezone post generating any
               | conversation at all? This is insane.
        
               | riffic wrote:
               | PDT lol
        
             | Viker wrote:
             | [flagged]
        
               | realworldperson wrote:
               | [dead]
        
           | aksss wrote:
           | Missing two other American time zones, Alaska and Hawaii.
        
           | thombat wrote:
           | But it already has CT, and I guess a lot of US citizens know
           | where they are relative to the other US time zones?
        
             | geuis wrote:
             | Yeah fair enough. I'm kinda getting concerned that my
             | original comment is generating any discussion at all. Like,
             | I just posted US-centric time zones. I'm not sure why this
             | is a topic for argument or discussion.
        
               | DrStartup wrote:
               | Maybe the judgement and blame part before the list of
               | additional time zones?
               | 
               | "So weird that nobody" feels judge-y and blame-y to me,
               | but that was probably not your intent.
               | 
               | Dunno
        
           | jaystraw wrote:
           | Alaskan here, where's AKST? :-D
        
         | tpmx wrote:
         | https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20...
        
       | suction wrote:
       | Does anyone else feel that calling this thing a "Starship" is too
       | hyperbolic?
        
         | robertlagrant wrote:
         | I don't think it'll describe a hyperbola, so no.
        
         | GuB-42 wrote:
         | Hyperbolic, no, confusing, yes.
         | 
         | Starship is both the name of the full rocket and the name of
         | the upper stage, the lower stage is called "super heavy", which
         | is as generic as you can get.
         | 
         | Personally, I still like to call the full rocket BFR, as it was
         | called before being named Starship.
        
           | mrguyorama wrote:
           | >the lower stage is called "super heavy", which is as generic
           | as you can get.
           | 
           | Feels like they took my Kerbal designs as naming inspiration.
        
         | cubefox wrote:
         | "Planetship" would have been better, or "Spaceship". A starship
         | is something which flies to the stars.
        
         | WJW wrote:
         | Meh. The Saturn V rocket wasn't a literal god either, nor are
         | the Falcon 9 rockets made out of actual falcons. People have
         | been calling their vessels fanciful and/or aspirational names
         | for centuries, it's fine. Nobody thinks the "unsinkable 2" is
         | actually unsinkable.
        
           | Bluestrike2 wrote:
           | _Starship_ seems kind of unique in that it 's an
           | extraordinarily utilitarian name compared to most launch
           | system names.[0] It expressly doesn't try to evoke ancient
           | human mythology, birds (which often have their own cultural
           | and mythological ties i.e. _Falcon_ , etc.). And perhaps
           | therein lies the aspirational element of the name. _Starship_
           | suggests a sort of banality, something so common that there
           | 's no point in dressing it up in a fanciful name. That's a
           | dream in itself, though I think it's a given that individual
           | Starship spacecraft will get named once they start carrying
           | humans.
           | 
           | Anyhow, I think the GP's thoughts were along the lines that
           | _Starship_ isn 't actually a _starship_ as neither the
           | spacecraft nor the super heavy-lift rocket will ever visit
           | another star. Which is a valid point, but not one that I
           | think matters much either way.
           | 
           | 0.
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_orbital_launch_systems
        
             | krisoft wrote:
             | > And perhaps therein lies the aspirational element of the
             | name.
             | 
             | Very possible. It mirrors the naming convention of
             | fictional spaceship in the Culture novel series. A series
             | Musk is a professed admirer of. They even named two of
             | their drone ships after fictional spacecraft from the
             | series.
             | 
             | In that series it is a running gag that other aliens find
             | the Culture's naming convention lacking a certain gravitas.
             | When you have one super weapon you might be tempted to call
             | it "Death Star" or something. But when you have millions
             | you let the warship AIs pick their own names and that is
             | how you end up with a mighty warship named "All Through
             | With This Niceness And Negotiation Stuff" or "Falling
             | Outside The Normal Moral Constraints". That is a real flex,
             | I would say.
             | 
             | So all in all Musk is familiar with the concept you are
             | talking about here. I can't say for certain if that is
             | going on here or not though. Most likely a Culture
             | spacecraft's AI would roll their eyes over a crude space
             | dingy which can barely reach orbit called "Starship"
             | though. :) So who knows.
        
             | aksss wrote:
             | > sort of banality
             | 
             | There's a gestalt to the word in the US. If the words are
             | parsed or translated literally, particularly for esl, I can
             | see how it would seem very plain. But speaking as a kid
             | from the American eighties, I don't think "starship" is
             | banal - anything but! It evokes for me all sorts of wonder
             | and fantasy, probably tied to the media consumed - movies
             | like The Last Starfighter, old Trek reruns, and books and
             | comics.
        
         | CarVac wrote:
         | And Dragon isn't a mythical creature.
         | 
         | (does Boeing's Starliner get a pass?)
        
           | once_inc wrote:
           | Does it act as the liner for stars, or does it produce lines
           | of stars?
        
       | ritzaco wrote:
       | Here's a countdown to 13h00 UTC, which is when the launch window
       | opens. I assume the YouTube will have some commentary etc in the
       | 45 minutes leading up to that
       | 
       | https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?p0=1440&iso=202...
        
         | sebzim4500 wrote:
         | Current target time is 13:20 UTC per spacex twitter.
        
       | HopenHeyHi wrote:
       | I bet $20 it gets delayed by exactly 3 days.
        
         | justrealist wrote:
         | Musk likes dumb jokes but I think an intentional 3-day pause
         | for a gag is too far.
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | If a person demonstrates the ability to spend $43 billion for
           | what could essentially be boiled down to a long running gag,
           | is 3 day pause really that much more?
        
             | panick21_ wrote:
             | Buying a major social media company isn't a gag.
        
               | bandyaboot wrote:
               | Well, not an intentional one.
        
         | once_inc wrote:
         | You're on. 20$ on it launching this launch window, mon 17th
         | april.
        
           | HopenHeyHi wrote:
           | I accept PayPal and doge.
        
             | once_inc wrote:
             | What do we do if they launch on the 18th or the 19th, or
             | after the 20th? No exchange seems logical, since we both
             | didn't predict those dates.
        
               | hayd wrote:
               | well atm it's set for 4/20.
               | 
               | https://twitter.com/spacex/status/1648092752893313024
        
         | baq wrote:
         | Unfortunately the weather at 4/20 is forecasted to be not
         | launch friendly
        
         | danbruc wrote:
         | Why would you delay a launch to Hitler's birthday?
        
           | HopenHeyHi wrote:
           | Odd looking duck..
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | Viker wrote:
         | i can arbiter the bet !
        
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