[HN Gopher] 'Angry Birds' company is about to be sold for $1B to...
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'Angry Birds' company is about to be sold for $1B to Sega
Author : achow
Score : 129 points
Date : 2023-04-16 11:03 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| [deleted]
| anon_cow1111 wrote:
| Nine years ago the guy who made "Crush the Castle" did an ama on
| Reddit and said it was "kind of flattering" that Angry Birds
| completely ripped off his game and people enjoyed playing it. I
| wonder if he still feels the same way.
|
| https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1iu1ih/i_am_joey_betz...
| paulpauper wrote:
| 'my idea was stolen' pretty much describes the past 40 years of
| tech, from the msdos days
| ArtWomb wrote:
| I'd like to open the floor, because many of us are coding away
| at a game engine someplace.
|
| What do you do, if you write a 2d physics library, and someone
| makes a popular game. How do you retro-actively acquire the
| licensing?
|
| Prudent thing is I guess to take the time to get your IP in
| order before launch. But it's extra difficult for cash strapped
| solo indies ;)
| TillE wrote:
| That's how everything works. Literally every CRPG (and every
| crappy mobile game with an XP/level mechanic) owes an enormous
| debt to Dungeons & Dragons.
|
| WotC is a big company, and D&D is bigger than it's ever been,
| but like Diablo 4 is gonna net more profit than D&D makes in a
| decade.
| davemp wrote:
| Yeah almost everything is iterative.
|
| WotC is more like SEGA in this scenario though because they
| only bought out D&D.
| pdntspa wrote:
| So, what, D&D owns fantasy or something? Ha ha.... no.
|
| I don't recall Diablo ever messing about with THAC0 or D&D
| specific rules. Cribbing "level up" mechanics is about the
| same level as music sampling the amen break. An enormous debt
| might be owed, sure, but the concept is a public good now and
| said debt is uncollectable.
| badsectoracula wrote:
| > owes an enormous debt to Dungeons & Dragons.
|
| And D&D owes to the wargames that preceded it.
|
| Nothing exists in a vacuum.
| lelanthran wrote:
| > hat's how everything works. Literally every CRPG (and every
| crappy mobile game with an XP/level mechanic) owes an
| enormous debt to Dungeons & Dragons
|
| And they owe almost everything to the lore from Tolkien's
| middle-earth.
| notahacker wrote:
| And Tolkein would be the first to acknowledge all the
| mythology he borrowed from and was inspired by...
| philomath_mn wrote:
| I mean the dynamics of the game alone didn't create the $1B
| valuation, it was also the execution around marketing, brand
| deals, movies, etc
| dehrmann wrote:
| Wordle sold for ~3M, and it had a user base.
| tech234a wrote:
| That's a more specific number than I've seen before, are
| you extrapolating off of the "low seven figures" mentioned
| in the press releases or was a more specific number
| released?
| dehrmann wrote:
| I was working off "low seven figures." I suppose that
| really means between $1M and $3M.
| AuryGlenz wrote:
| Way back in the day I had a flash games website. If I remember
| correctly there was another game like Crush the Castle that
| actually came first, though I can't remember the name now.
|
| Anyways, it's not like Angry Birds didn't refine the formula.
| The slingshot mechanic was better for touch screens, the
| different birds types, and making the art cutesy.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35584583
| krabizzwainch wrote:
| I think I'm more surprised that Sega even has $1B to spend...
| cloudking wrote:
| They made some of it from the Sonic movies, both of which I
| personally enjoyed. Jim Carrey plays a legendary villain.
|
| https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2021/11/07/sega-talks-s...
|
| https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2022/04/28/box-o...
|
| A third movie is on the way.
| jmrm wrote:
| I won't be surprised if they used the Angry Birds IP to sell
| another movie
| cloudking wrote:
| Sonic vs Angry Birds?
| krabizzwainch wrote:
| I definitely planned on watching both of these and just
| completely forgot about them. They should just use this money
| on a Dreamcast 2 instead!
| toast0 wrote:
| What would Dreamcast 2 bring for users _or_ Sega?
|
| On the consumer side, I can only imagine it would be yet
| another x86 based console, because what else is there to
| do? Another samey controller, because once you add a right
| analog stick, and left and right bumpers and a home button,
| what do you have left to differentiate on? Can't even put
| the cable on the wrong side anymore. I guess you could have
| a nicer screen and just build it into the controller, but
| that was hardly used last time.
|
| On Sega's side, they're going to do all that R&D to make
| the same thing as everyone else and then how are they going
| to make the money back? Not on first party game sales.
| Third party sales will be hard too, unless they have some
| really strong pitch, but at this point, they're really a
| new entrant, so who's going to port to the new guy's
| platform, unless it's so amazing and underpriced that
| everyone will want to buy it.
|
| Might be nice if they can figure out how to make a mini-
| dreamcast though. Depends on how many games they can get
| licensees to sign up for though, I guess.
| staticman2 wrote:
| Wikipedia says Sega had about 186 million dollars worth of net
| income in 2020.
| buzer wrote:
| It's likely that parent company (Sega Sammy Holdings) is the
| one who is buying/financing it. Sega accounts for less than 10%
| of their revenue.
| BuyMyBitcoins wrote:
| If Angry Birds is worth $1 Billion dollars, George Lucas sold
| Star Wars for an absolute pittance at $4 Billion.
| toyg wrote:
| That was very much a "get this off my hands" sale. Lucas
| wanted to retire from running the company, to leave the day
| to day to others, so he'd be free to focus on the occasional
| story elements inbetween caring for his new child. I reckon
| the price was lower than it should have been, in exchange for
| informal promises of letting him hang around at will. Which
| they did, in fairness, although they ended up simply ignoring
| what he'd say.
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| Yes, that's pretty much an agreed upon fact. Disney already
| made the money back through the three main films alone.
| anshumankmr wrote:
| Not to be pedantic, but the net profit =/= revenue from the
| movies. Even though the Sequel Trilogy was a financial
| success, the net revenue was definitely lower than 5-6Bn
| the movies earned.
|
| Here's a source https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinereid/2
| 023/03/01/reveale...
|
| But once you factor in toys for the movies and shows (and
| other merch), DVD and Bluray sales,video games units sold
| and microtransactions, theme park tickets, increased
| subscriptions to Disney+ for marquee shows like the
| Mandalorian etc. it probably has been made back, probably
| with a multiplier.
| dottrap wrote:
| Lots of indies keep close track of Disney. Many of them
| have a good understanding of the cost structures and
| revenue splits, and every time somebody does a breakdown
| of the numbers, Disney is bleeding red ink with the
| Lucasfilm acquisition. It's a complete boondoggle for
| Disney.
|
| This is just one example breakdown of the numbers:
|
| https://practicaleconomics.org/category/star-wars/
|
| We also know that Disney+ is hemorrhaging tons of money.
| Disney reported something like a $1.1 billion loss in
| 2003-q1, and $1.5 billion loss the previous quarter. This
| is like Disney sinking one of their cruise liners every
| quarter. Neilsen streaming ratings have shown Star Wars
| shows have completely fallen off and have failed keep
| Disney+ competitive.
|
| There are also tons of stories reported about how the
| Star Wars toys have failed to sell, and retailers were
| fire selling everything trying to get rid of the
| merchandise.
| morjom wrote:
| Great, another Finnish success company being sold for no reason
| to Sega of all things...
| HopenHeyHi wrote:
| [flagged]
| pokepim wrote:
| [dead]
| Ekaros wrote:
| I think cashing out might not be worst strategy with Angry
| Birds.
|
| It was somewhat early with Supercell, but with Angry Birds I
| think getting money while possible is great idea.
| speed_spread wrote:
| Next, Nokian Tyres gets sold to a Chinese manufacturer of
| shopping cart wheels.
| pipeline_peak wrote:
| Sega is pretty notorious for bad business decisions...
|
| How is Angry Birds worth 1B, are we in 2013 with Fruit Ninja and
| Temple Run?
| pharmakom wrote:
| Angry Birds really isn't a very interesting game. I never
| understood the hype.
| pcurve wrote:
| oh boy, someone is laughing way to the bank... (and it's not
| sega)
| trollied wrote:
| I actually downloaded the original Angry Birds a few weeks ago,
| just for a little nostalgia trip. They've changed it & completely
| ruined it with ads and other crap. Deleted it after a few
| minutes. Was really disappointed. I _Paid_ for the game
| originally. That 's the game I want to play. Utter joke that this
| nonsense ever became acceptable.
| xutopia wrote:
| Old classics are being converted into shitty experiences...
| mobile gaming is turning bad. It is just terrible now to play
| on mobile
| havblue wrote:
| It sounds like a boiling frog problem: they could only monetize
| the original idea so much and struggled to come up with
| original ideas in mobile games. So all they could do is just
| try harder to milk the original idea.
|
| Apparently, there's still a billion dollars worth of merch and
| micro transactions that can still be milked.
| itronitron wrote:
| >> there's still a billion dollars worth of merch
|
| Our family has a rather nice Angry Birds carry-on suitcase. I
| have to wonder what it will be worth in twenty years.
| kroltan wrote:
| Is it the actual original Angry Birds? (Now renamed "Red's
| First Flight" or something like that)
|
| IIRC they did this renaming switcheroo to get people into the
| freemium+ads-supported version. The original was undercutting
| their new monetization.
|
| (Which don't get me wrong, is exceedingly scummy already. "The
| original was undercutting their new monetization", AKA people
| prefer to not have ads and annoying freemium if they know the
| game is solid)
| ctippett wrote:
| This made me look to see if I could find the original Angry
| Birds in my App Store purchase history. It's there, but its
| been renamed "AB Classic" - I couldn't find it by searching,
| so I had to scroll a loooong way down the list of apps until
| I found it near the bottom. Its position in the list was
| accompanied by other such classics as Flight Control, Doodle
| Jump and geoDefense, none of which have (or had) ads. I don't
| install or play games on my phone anymore.
| selectodude wrote:
| RIP Flight Control. I miss that game a lot.
| _the_inflator wrote:
| +10 for "I don't install or play games on my phone
| anymore."
|
| Same here. I gave me this rule: No games on phones or
| private work computers, as well as no crap like Facebook. I
| might expand this rule to other non-productivity apps as
| well, since gaming on a phone is a time drainer and
| distractor for me.
| OscarTheGrinch wrote:
| Bonus points if you have blocked your preferred web
| distractions at the hosts file level. I still catch
| myself about once a week mindlessly logging into
| something while waiting for a process longer than 10
| seconds to finish.
|
| "Nuh-uh." - Hosts file
|
| https://www.howtogeek.com/27350/beginner-geek-how-to-
| edit-yo...
| _the_inflator wrote:
| Forgot about this one. Nice tip.
| propogandist wrote:
| this can be done with NetGuard (Android) or apps like
| AdGuard Pro (iOs). Both function as VPNs and allow DNS
| filtering (load custom host lists).
|
| Essential software and should be the first app to be
| installed on a device.
| werdnapk wrote:
| Netflix's games have no ads and have no annoying pop-ups...
| it's the only stuff I download for my kids to play with.
| Everything else is cluttered with too much junk for my
| liking.
| binkHN wrote:
| > AB Classic
|
| Wow. Couldn't even leave the words Angry Birds in the
| title.
| lostlogin wrote:
| You need SEO for this crap.
|
| Search engine obfuscation.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Apple Arcade still has a nice Angry Birds version with zero
| ads or gambling mechanics or any other nonsense.
|
| If it was not for Apple Arcade, I probably would restrict my
| kids to playing Kerbal Space Program or the few games I know
| that do not have all that garbage.
| binkHN wrote:
| Is there something like this for Android?
| Ageodene wrote:
| There's Google Play Pass.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Apple Arcade is perfect for kids, you can let them install
| any game from there and you can be a 100% sure there's no
| predatory in-app purchases, subscriptions or ads.
|
| The Netflix games are trying the same approach. Basically
| they have games on the app stores but you can't play them
| without an active Netflix subscription.
| jbuhbjlnjbn wrote:
| Angry Birds Android App was used to bulk collect user data.
| https://www.entrepreneur.com/science-technology/the-nsa-is-u...
|
| If you do not trust this specific source, there are plenty others
| easy to find by search engine.
|
| Unfortunate choice for Sega to acquire such a company.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never
| does any good, and it makes boring reading.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
|
| You also don't seem to have an earlier comment here that was
| being downvoted.
| jbuhbjlnjbn wrote:
| I edited my post - better?
|
| My earlier comment was downvoted in record time for stating
| the same, so I made a new post. What's the reason to have
| such a guideline? I suspect manipulative downvotes to silence
| my opinion. Otherwise, why not comment and correct my
| fallacies instead?
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| I mean it's explained pretty clearly in the second
| sentence.
|
| > It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
|
| People are here to talk about interesting topics. That you
| are being downvoted is not a very interesting topic to
| anyone but yourself. You pointing it out also isn't going
| to magically make the downvotes go away.
|
| > I suspect manipulative downvotes to silence my opinion.
|
| It takes 501 karma to unlock downvoting. People aren't here
| making dozens of accounts just to take away your fake
| internet points.
| jbuhbjlnjbn wrote:
| I have read plenty of threads where completely legitimate
| comments are downvoted to the point you cannot read them
| anymore, it is the same for other users' comments. This
| is not my personal ego trip. (and by the way, I make it a
| habit to always upvote those comments independent of
| content, just because I despise censorship through the
| backdoor)
|
| The reason why it still should be allowed to talk about
| it is to hinder, or raise awareness of vote manipulation
| in the comments.
|
| "it is boring" is not a logical explanation, but maybe
| that's just me.
| notfried wrote:
| They are still racking in the revenue, and have a solid business,
| despite the Angry Birds dependency. Per their Q4'22 filing [1],
| they had 1B in downloads and positive operating cash flow. Their
| 2022 revenue from Angry Birds is also the highest year since it
| launched. Their market cap is currently at 645M, so they're
| exiting at a premium.
|
| [1] https://investors.rovio.com/sites/rovio-
| ir-v2/files/2023-04/...
| mathgeek wrote:
| Perhaps I am reading the report incorrectly, but isn't $6bln
| the total IAP market revenue?
|
| (Never mind, I see you corrected your post)
| notfried wrote:
| Yes, corrected. Thanks ;)
| theshrike79 wrote:
| The theory is that Sega made bank with the Sonic movies and the
| Angry Birds movies were the least crap movies based on games for
| a LOOOONG time - the second one still has 73% rating on Rotten
| Tomatoes.
|
| A streak broken only by this year's D&D movie (90% RT + "fresh"
| rating)
|
| This way Sega gets its foot in the mobile gaming door and also
| gets the people who made the Angry Birds movies and TV show(s) on
| their payroll.
| jbuhbjlnjbn wrote:
| >the second one still has 73% rating on Rotten Tomatoes.
|
| Using Rotten Tomatoes as a legitimate measure of quality, you
| need to use the inverse value of their score.
| nobrains wrote:
| Relevant documentary about Angry Birds and its journey to a much
| higher valuation, and now _down_ to $1B:
| https://youtu.be/VEVLHtzFle4
| xaduha wrote:
| Any copyright and/or trademark experts around? It says here that
| previously Sega owned Alpha Protocol trademark has expired. Does
| that mean anyone can just use it? I know that the setting was
| generic as hell, but still.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Protocol#cite_note-62
| zerocrates wrote:
| The trademark is just the name. Setting, story, characters,
| etc. would be covered by the copyright and unaffected by a
| trademark expiration.
| xaduha wrote:
| A pity. Sega hates this game for some reason, you can't even
| buy it on Steam anymore.
| zokier wrote:
| "Some reason" might be 72/64/63 (PC/PS/XB) Metacritic
| scores and poor sales ("The game's slow sales contributed
| to Sega's lower-than-expected financial results in the
| three months ending on June 30, 2011")?
| xaduha wrote:
| Very bad first impression is what this game excels at,
| but it gets better. In any case that's in the past and it
| looks like their music rights expired, that why it was
| pulled from Steam, not because of some special kind of
| malice to an old game. Situation still sucks though.
|
| https://www.gamesindustry.biz/segas-rights-as-publisher-
| of-a...
| jeffreportmill1 wrote:
| Did they ever make things right with the creator of Box2D?
|
| https://techcrunch.com/2011/02/28/creator-of-angry-birds-phy...
| karlshea wrote:
| Your own link answers the very question you asked.
| Salgat wrote:
| All they say is "we acknowledge it uses Box2D and we'd be
| happy to discuss it with the creator later". There's no
| follow-up, which I'm curious about too since one of the
| questions raised was whether Rovio would consider supporting
| the project.
| Jare wrote:
| He's been credited for Box2D in many games, including a
| number of Angry Birds iterations. They sit nicely along all
| the work on Blizzard's physics technology across all their
| games. https://www.mobygames.com/person/221583/erin-
| catto/credits/
| solarkraft wrote:
| At their hight, when the popularity was near endless, they could
| probably have sold for many billions to some of the big players
| (Microsoft?).
|
| But what do they do now? Sega must have some big revitalization
| plans. I'm not saying that it can't work, but I don't quite see
| it at this point.
|
| Data point: I was at an AR (kind of) golf venue and they offered
| an Angry Birds mode (which they were really proud of). I thought
| it was pretty bad.
| HPsquared wrote:
| One-hit wonder?
| moogly wrote:
| Certainly a one-IP-hit wonder. Amazing Alex was a flop,
| wasn't it?
| mcphage wrote:
| Bad Piggies was one of my favorite games, ever.
| anshumankmr wrote:
| Angry Birds (and its sequel) as well as Angry Birds: Star
| Wars were absolute hits, I think.
|
| Bad Piggies was also fantastic.
| tough wrote:
| Angry Bids
| NBJack wrote:
| I prefer to go for the multi-hit, but the blue ones don't
| have enough inertia.
|
| In all seriousness, mobile gaming is an extremely crowded
| market. To their credit, they capitalized on their early
| success and did what they could to build what appears to be a
| franchise. And the first movie wasn't all that bad!
| mathgeek wrote:
| Possibly. Their annual revenue [0] seems to be peaking in the
| low-to-mid ~six~ nine digits.
|
| [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1249220/rovio-revenue-
| se...
| oezi wrote:
| 9 digits? 300m EUR in 2022.
| mathgeek wrote:
| Yep, should have had coffee before posting. Corrected and
| thanks!
| dgellow wrote:
| > But what do they do now?
|
| I mean, look at this:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rovio_Entertainment#2009%E2%80...
|
| They have 2 released Angry Birds movies, 11 TV series, non-stop
| game releases for the past decade. They seem to be doing a lot
| of things.
| _the_inflator wrote:
| As a developer, the best thing to say about Angry Birds is, that
| is put box2d on my map. I extensively used box2d within the
| LibGDX framework.
|
| And yes, there is a story around not giving credit to the
| inventor of box2d: https://techcrunch.com/2011/02/28/creator-of-
| angry-birds-phy...
| m3kw9 wrote:
| They took investments and then didn't know how to spend it, as
| you can see they spent it on crap. Maybe it the Ip was just way
| over valued.
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