[HN Gopher] In a deadly mountain pass, a tiny hotel is a lifeline
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       In a deadly mountain pass, a tiny hotel is a lifeline
        
       Author : bookofjoe
       Score  : 94 points
       Date   : 2023-04-15 21:05 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | bookofjoe wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/KpQDB
        
       | rendall wrote:
       | Wow. That caption. _" Young boys who work at the hotel."_ Just
       | put out there, casually, like child labor is no big thing.
        
         | oh_sigh wrote:
         | If you're American there are certainly kids working in your
         | community. not even illicitly. It's generally legal for kids of
         | any age to work for their parents if the parents own the
         | business. For example, if a family owns a B&B, they might put
         | their kids to work doing simple chores around the business.
        
         | usefulcat wrote:
         | I suspect that child labor is relatively low on Afghanistan's
         | list of problems.
        
           | 55555 wrote:
           | Here's a good documentary on a bigger problem:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWeRAlJQI0c
        
         | aynyc wrote:
         | You never worked while you were young? Like deliver papers or
         | McDonald's or even tutoring?
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | In many countries it isn't.
        
           | rendall wrote:
           | I know. I think it just shocked me. I would like to live in a
           | world where childhood is universally the time in everyone's
           | life for play and education.
        
             | BlackFly wrote:
             | Throughout human history, children were seen as supportive
             | to the labor of the parents. I recall reading articles
             | recently that were pointing out that this cultural change
             | in attitude towards children may be what is driving
             | declining birthrates: children have changed from assisting
             | in life (in a limited capacity) to being a liability like
             | an expensive pet. A child will not help out in an office
             | job like a child can help in a family run corner store,
             | restaurant or farm.
             | 
             | Certainly I mowed the lawn, washed dishes, cooked, weeded
             | gardens, fed livestock and pets, painted the house, and
             | many more chores. I am not sure I was a net positive even
             | with all that. My parents certainly didn't exploit me, and
             | my parents had worked a lot harder on their parents farms
             | without it being exploitive.
             | 
             | Childhood is universally a time of newness and innocence.
             | There is no need to shelter children from the reality of
             | this world and I think society does a huge disservice by
             | trying to maintain ignorance (while characterizing it as
             | innocence) in children and then suddenly laments how
             | irresponsible they are at 18.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | There's that and there is the simple fact that children
               | are now expected to live so there isn't as much need for
               | 'redundancy' to put it bluntly. Up to my grandparents
               | generation it wasn't rare at all to lose one or more
               | children.
        
             | f6v wrote:
             | I was selling fruits to tourists at about 9 or 10 during
             | summers. Tought me a lot. Not to make an argument from my
             | personal anecdotes, but not all "child labor" is bad.
        
             | netsharc wrote:
             | I mean, won't kids in your imaginary world have chores?
             | Learning to cook or clean is also education (the
             | alternative would be: ever heard of the anecdote of young
             | adults who go to college and don't know how to do
             | laundry?). Sadly for this remote part of Afghanistan in the
             | next few years, practical education is probably going to be
             | more useful compared to book education.
             | 
             | And maybe I'm just romanticizing the concept, but I imagine
             | the kids would be mostly running around playing on the
             | hotel grounds, and once in a while a bunch of travellers
             | would show up, and the hotel caretaker would then yell for
             | the kids to help prepare tea or food for them.
        
               | speakfreely wrote:
               | OP lives in a fantasy world where every culture should be
               | bulldozed to make way for endless middle class cul-de-
               | sacs and McMansions. It's perfectly normal in most of the
               | world for children to be involved in family businesses or
               | even working to help support the family, rather than
               | living in some entitled bubble where they're the center
               | of everything.
        
               | shrimp_emoji wrote:
               | Hey, that's where I live!
        
               | jryle70 wrote:
               | How do you know they are all family and not child labor
               | working to help their families? After all child labor
               | isn't a foreign concept in Afghanistan:
               | 
               | https://www.npr.org/2022/12/31/1143143252/afghanistan-
               | taliba...
               | 
               | I find it strange that child labor invokes such a strong
               | feeling in any article about EV, being associated with
               | cobalt mining, yet it receives such a glove treatment in
               | this discussion.
        
               | netsharc wrote:
               | Since I joined in on this thread, my "glove treatment"
               | might be romanticizing it, but "helping out" in a quiet
               | hotel/guest house in the mountains is surely a lot more
               | kid-compatible than a coalmine. The top commenter's
               | comment that the article glossed over the fact that kids
               | were made to work in such a place feels overblown. Hey
               | maybe the reality of this hotel work is a bit harsher,
               | but since the reporter didn't shine a light on it, I'd
               | assume she also judged the same way.
               | 
               | If the article was about a coal mine and the NYT just
               | glossed over the fact of child labor, then I would agree
               | with such a comment; an article glossing over child labor
               | in a coal mine would be shitty.
               | 
               | Edit to add: I like your angle about "It must be an anti-
               | EV brigade!" though, keep on investigating, you're on to
               | a conspiracy! /s
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | You could have made your point more effectively without
               | the insults and the sleights.
        
             | davidw wrote:
             | From my understanding, recently, "getting enough food" has
             | been the biggest worry for children in Afghanistan, not
             | whether they're doing some work or not.
        
         | inglor_cz wrote:
         | Looking at the population pyramid of Afghanistan, it has about
         | as many youngsters under 18 as people in the 18-60 age bracket.
         | 
         | https://www.populationpyramid.net/afghanistan/2023/
         | 
         | With a population structure like this, you don't really have
         | any choice but to tap at least part of the under-18 population
         | into the workforce. Western societies at the same level of
         | development did precisely the same.
        
         | jpollock wrote:
         | Even in the USA kids are allowed to work, either paid or
         | unpaid. There is insufficient information to decide if this is
         | exploitative labor or not.
         | 
         | I'm guessing you don't have many friends that grew up rural?
        
           | Tempest1981 wrote:
           | What is the view on Girl Scouts selling cookies? Or Boy
           | Scouts selling popcorn?
        
             | lighthazard wrote:
             | They're not really working in that scenario - they are fund
             | raising for their group which may be considered an exercise
             | in interacting with other people, marketing, selling, and
             | the value of money that helps their organization. This may
             | sound similar to working but one is for fun and the other
             | is more for survival and sustenance.
        
               | marketerinland wrote:
               | You're saying the definition of working is not tied to
               | the activity but rather the motive?
        
           | rendall wrote:
           | You're right. It just surprised me.
        
       | vinhboy wrote:
       | I was expecting a story about an eccentric recluse, but it turns
       | out to be a story about a failing government. Good read
       | nonetheless.
        
       | webwielder2 wrote:
       | There's a French documentary series about the shit people go
       | through living in areas with bad roads that is my favorite thing
       | on YouTube. Here's an episode about Afghanistan
       | https://youtu.be/a-QHgZYmfpM
        
         | js2 wrote:
         | Have you seen _The Wages of Fear_? I would imagine it would be
         | your favorite movie.
        
           | dekhn wrote:
           | And Sorceror.
        
             | themodelplumber wrote:
             | Sorcerer is really quite an audio-visual treat. Then on top
             | of that, all the historically-relevant backstories. And Roy
             | Scheider's perceptive POV slowly going off the rails. It's
             | really amazing.
             | 
             | It also reminds me of some of the worst scouting trips I
             | ever went on as a kid. A sense of zero control while an
             | adult wheeled the van over loose gravel around a drop-off
             | corner on a one-lane logging road.
             | 
             | Or, just driving around the backroads in various mountain
             | ranges from the cascades to the uintas.
             | 
             | That experience you get to have when you feel like you have
             | reached what might be a turn in the road, but you are going
             | uphill at quite an incline and can't see over your car's
             | hood.
             | 
             | So you're at 12K feet and glad your car is in good running
             | shape, but you have to roll down your window and lean your
             | upper body outside to check that you're not about to drive
             | your family off a cliff. As the car gently noses over when
             | you finally reach the turn, the first landform you see is a
             | 10K+ peak about 15 miles away. Then you see the valley full
             | of cities 8K feet below you.
             | 
             | Rinse and repeat on the cliffs of highway 1 near the lost
             | coast, dodging landslides and massive rock falls in the
             | coastal ranges during rain storms just before you have to
             | stop to lose your lunch, arriving at the perimeter of your
             | camp site to find the highway bridge was lost to the river,
             | etc.
             | 
             | Just unpacking some road memories here I guess :-)
        
         | DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote:
         | I just got sucked in a watched the whole thing. Near the end,
         | "On the other side of the world, they are trying to get to
         | Mars! And just look at how we are living here."
        
         | xhkkffbf wrote:
         | A friend of mine was stationed in Afghanistan during the US
         | occupation. He said there was a well-understood eco system. The
         | US would pay local businessmen, say, $10k to fix a section of
         | road. In the meantime, rebels/terrorists/freedom fighters would
         | blow up a section of road for, say, $1k. Lather, rinse, repeat.
        
           | 55555 wrote:
           | Try explaining the broken window fallacy to a guy who just
           | bought a new Porsche from breaking and repairing windows.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | Amazing, thank you.
        
         | groestl wrote:
         | > my favorite thing on YouTube.
         | 
         | Off topic, but can we have a thread about our favorite things
         | on YouTube? I also have one, and I'd like to see more like this
         | exact thing above!
        
           | OoooooooO wrote:
           | Just create an "Ask HN: " thread?
        
             | moralestapia wrote:
             | I will support it :D
        
       | vetelko wrote:
       | what about [paid] in such links?
        
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       (page generated 2023-04-16 23:01 UTC)