[HN Gopher] Show HN: WikiBinge - discover how all things are vag...
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       Show HN: WikiBinge - discover how all things are vaguely connected
        
       Connect two articles on Wikipedia, but do it the long way. I've
       always been a fan of the theory of six degree of separation, but
       it's an overused concept when exploring the Wiki-graph.  Instead of
       showing the shortest path, which in my opinion is "boring" and ends
       up connecting super-important central articles, I came up with my
       own method: WikiBinge selects the smaller, less represented
       articles on Wikipedia. In a WikiBinge path, the underdogs are the
       kings!  How does it work? It's pretty straightforward! Compute
       PageRank on the Wiki-graph and assign as weight of each edge the
       PageRank value of the destination node. A WikiBinge path is then
       simply a shortest path using these weights: the algorithm will then
       favor paths passing through articles with lower PageRank values.
       More on the motives to build this here:
       https://www.jamez.it/project/wikibinge/  This is an older project
       of mine, but it never got much exposure, so I'm humbly submitting
       it now.
        
       Author : jamez
       Score  : 213 points
       Date   : 2023-04-14 17:48 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wikibinge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wikibinge.com)
        
       | adrianh wrote:
       | This is excellent. The path from "George Barnes (Musician)" to
       | "Django Reinhardt" somehow managed to pass through Hysterectomy,
       | 5-Bromouracil, Glucuronidation and Port Bannatyne (Scotland).
       | Kudos for some creative coding!
        
       | munro wrote:
       | The chains are so long, it's really not that impressive :/
        
         | r3trohack3r wrote:
         | The point is that the chains are long and winding instead of
         | the shortest path between two articles.
         | 
         | It seems that, if you pick an uncached path, the loading screen
         | shows you the shortest path while it computes the longer one.
         | More info in their linked article.
        
           | cglong wrote:
           | I wish there was a toggle to always see the shortest path
           | instead.
        
             | codetrotter wrote:
             | If you want the shortest path just use one of the very many
             | websites that does that. For example
             | https://www.sixdegreesofwikipedia.com/
        
       | jonathankoren wrote:
       | Excellent. 32 degrees away, and brings in Air Bud.
       | 
       | https://www.wikibinge.com/#John_Wilkes_Booth/Hentai
        
       | throwaway9131 wrote:
       | Strange, my first guess had no connections either way
       | 
       | chicken nugget <-> constitution of canada
       | 
       | Now I'm wondering if its a bug or if there is actually no
       | connection
        
         | ape4 wrote:
         | But this works...
         | https://www.wikibinge.com/#Chicken_nugget/Canada_Day
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | Lindsay Marshall (catless/bifurcated rivets) and I played with
       | doing this informally as a game back in 2002 or so, by hand.
       | 
       | Well done coding it up. The average pathlength will be
       | fascinating.
        
       | m0llusk wrote:
       | Not sure I get it, but on my first use it pointed out connections
       | between Dehumanization and Memes that I had not previously
       | considered. Curious.
        
       | foota wrote:
       | It might be interesting to see this but with paths where they're
       | instead weighted based on the strength of the relation (e.g.,
       | something like TF-idf on the articles each link to).
       | 
       | I think this would avoid the super common article problem, but
       | also lead to more relation between each link.
        
         | jamez wrote:
         | TF-idf would definitely be something very interesting to try,
         | though I also treasure the serendipity brought by the
         | "blindness" to the content.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | ArekDymalski wrote:
       | it's nice that it highlights less popular and obvious - i've
       | discovered a lot linking potato to the Millenium Falcon :)
       | https://www.wikibinge.com/#Potato/Millennium_Falcon
        
       | kirubakaran wrote:
       | Anyone got anything longer than this? (68)
       | 
       | https://www.wikibinge.com/#Madurai/Semiahmoo_Bay
        
         | vallanceroad wrote:
         | My first search counted 118:
         | 
         | https://www.wikibinge.com/#George_Bush_Intercontinental_Airp...
         | 
         | I imagine you could double this.
        
         | codetrotter wrote:
         | I count 91 articles from FreeBSD to Weedonville, Virginia
         | 
         | https://www.wikibinge.com/#FreeBSD/Weedonville,_Virginia
        
         | layman51 wrote:
         | I count 100+ articles between these two. It is a pretty long
         | path and that is the point I guess.
         | https://www.wikibinge.com/#Amy_Goodman/Anatoly_Karpov
        
       | great_psy wrote:
       | Here is a challenge, what is the longest "shortest path" across
       | all wiki?
        
       | r3trohack3r wrote:
       | This is absolutely amazing.
       | 
       | I built wikiscroll.blankenship.io for myself to scratch my
       | neophile itch. You might be displacing it in my daily routine, a
       | nice pre-built rabbit hole between two topics of interest has
       | proven to be a lot of fun over the past 30 minutes.
       | 
       | Amazing work.
       | 
       | As a short aside, at first I didn't get it. I was surprised the
       | paths between articles were so long. It wasn't until I tried
       | "Adolf Hitler" -> Something (Hitler has notoriously short paths
       | to everything) that I realized these weren't the shortest paths.
       | Your loading text does a really great job of explaining that, but
       | the "random" button appears to be pulling from a cache (clever!)
       | so I didn't get to see that loading message about the "boring
       | shortest path" until I went off the beaten path.
       | 
       | Since it seems like you are computing both the shortest and the
       | "most interesting" path between the two articles, it would be
       | cool to give me a way to see both on the final loaded page. The
       | shortest path is interesting too, even if it is less interesting
       | than the one you ultimately generate.
       | 
       | It'd also be cool to be able to "pin" one of the boxes so the
       | random button only impacts the other. For example, if I started
       | at the Great Molasses Flood, what path could I take to random
       | other articles? Though I guess this can be accomplished by
       | spinning and then retyping the "Great Molasses Flood"
       | 
       | Edit: I deeply appreciate your narrative at
       | https://www.jamez.it/project/wikibinge/ - this is one of my
       | favorite projects I've come across on HN in a long while.
        
         | saltminer wrote:
         | > Since it seems like you are computing both the shortest and
         | the "most interesting" path between the two articles, it would
         | be cool to give me a way to see both on the final loaded page.
         | The shortest path is interesting too, even if it is less
         | interesting than the one you ultimately generate.
         | 
         | I agree. Sometimes it loads fairly quickly and you only get a
         | second to look at the shortest path.
        
           | jamez wrote:
           | Thank you both, this is a good suggestion. I'll leave the
           | short connection on screen, comparing it with the long and
           | windy path is fun.
        
       | xcombelle wrote:
       | that a nice project, hope you will gather enough resources to
       | make for other language if wikipedias.
        
       | StockHuman wrote:
       | Botswana National Front to The Cheesecake factory was truly a
       | wild ride, meandering between military hardware, old airplane
       | designs, African social movements, some random celebrities,
       | municipalities in Europe and more. Fun stuff.
        
       | anonu wrote:
       | Would be great to be able to customize the randomness on the
       | graph. Granted it's a hard problem to solve. I picked two
       | unrelated topics and it seems like most of the bridge is obscure
       | athletes and teams. Maybe excluding certain categories, like
       | sports, in my case would be more helpful.
        
       | denton-scratch wrote:
       | Unimpressed - I tried to get a chain from "Mocca, Yemen" to
       | "Jimma". I got a whole long list of stuff about aircraft engines
       | (I do get that the author was trying to make non-obvious links).
       | 
       | Mocca is a port on the Red Sea in Yemen. The Ottoman Turks used
       | to require all shipping entering the Red Sea to put in at Mocca
       | so their coffee could be taxed. Mocca is a port town; they don't
       | actually grow coffee in the town, it comes from a mountainous
       | region to the North.
       | 
       | Jimma is a coffee-producing region in Ethiopia, south of the
       | entrance to the Red Sea.
       | 
       | I just bought 250g of beans labelled "Mocca Djimmah"; the vendor
       | couldn't tell me whether it came from Yemen or Ethopia. My guess
       | is that exports from Yemen are "challenged" just now, but I'd
       | like to taste some coffee from the original home of coffee.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Kerrick wrote:
       | This is pretty neat! I tried
       | https://www.wikibinge.com/#Moray_eel/Sony_Alpha and I was pleased
       | with the path it took me for first big chunk of the path. The
       | last bit was a tour of a significant number of camera models
       | (none of them Sony), which felt... strange? It certainly felt
       | less-varied than the combination of animalia, history, geography,
       | and pop culture that the first part took me through.
       | 
       | Fun project, thanks for sharing!
       | 
       | If I had a bit of feedback to share, it's that the shortest path
       | (which shows while loading the binge) continues to be visible
       | after it finishes loading -- maybe at the bottom of the page?
        
         | jchw wrote:
         | Interesting. Seems like it'd be ideal if there were some way to
         | penalize pages that are too similar to each-other (similar
         | categories/taxonomy, maybe similar text/structure, etc.)
         | because when it does chain a bunch of weird stuff it is very
         | interesting.
        
         | jamez wrote:
         | Cool path! The last bit of the tour you described is fairly
         | common - the algorithm is just doing its job, getting closer to
         | the target, avoiding articles with larger PageRank. It's very
         | uncommon to pass through "important" pages. Glad you enjoyed
         | it!
        
       | stevenking86l wrote:
       | This is great fun. Though my first guess had no connection:
       | Cleopatra and The Great Pacific Garbage patch
        
         | jamez wrote:
         | When you can't find a connection, always try the reverse!
         | https://www.wikibinge.com/#Great_Pacific_garbage_patch/Cleop...
        
       | notesinthefield wrote:
       | In high school my friends and I played a Wikipedia game in which
       | one of us hit the random button to find our "goal" and then had
       | to navigate back to the goal from the Wikipedia home page using
       | only links. It was usually possible to do so and the first person
       | to the goal won.
        
       | ricardo81 wrote:
       | FWIW worth mentioning "bacon number" as I don't see it here or on
       | the page and it's a similar(ish) concept.
       | 
       | I managed ~50 intermediates on this tool from [my home town] to
       | [Kevin Bacon].
        
       | CyborgCabbage wrote:
       | https://www.wikibinge.com/#Electoral_college/The_Long_Earth
       | 
       | Apparently Humptulips, Washington was Terry Pratchett's favourite
       | place on earth. :)
        
       | tobyjsullivan wrote:
       | This might be the first time I wish I'd read the comments
       | _before_ visiting the link. Assuming it would find the shortest
       | path, I gave it two very unrelated concepts. I spent way too long
       | exploring a very long chain thinking "How can this be the
       | shortest path?"
       | 
       | So now I want to know, is there a similar tool that does shortest
       | path? Because that would be fun too.
        
         | codetrotter wrote:
         | > is there a similar tool that does shortest path?
         | 
         | Yes very many of them, like OP said.
         | 
         | Here's a popular one: https://www.sixdegreesofwikipedia.com/
        
       | Anduia wrote:
       | I tried to go from "Bronze Age" to "Mail" and it took me in a
       | long ride including the dog from Oz. Quite fun.
       | https://www.wikibinge.com/#Bronze_Age/Mail
        
       | passwordoops wrote:
       | Nice! My wife and I used to play a game sort of like this - find
       | the shortest path between two pages on Wikipedia. It actually
       | made for a fun party game too.
       | 
       | I really love the circuitous path though. Fantastic route to
       | discovery and I can see those even being a neat thing for schools
        
         | birdyrooster wrote:
         | You two sound awesome together.
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | https://www.thewikigame.com/
        
         | ramesh1994 wrote:
         | It is a pretty fun game https://wiki-race.com/
        
       | Paul-Craft wrote:
       | Not "all things." I can't enter arbitrary titles of wiki
       | articles, like "mathematics" and "poetry."
        
       | armandososa wrote:
       | This is funny, pressed the dice icon and I got "Milk" and
       | "Cookie" and I thought it was going to be a short connection. It
       | isn't. https://www.wikibinge.com/#Milk/Cookie
        
         | chillage wrote:
         | The generated paths are not shortest. Click the "About" section
         | for details. It intentionally generates longer paths through
         | smaller articles.
        
           | culi wrote:
           | I'd love to be able to customize the algorithm. I'm curious
           | what would happen if you placed various weights to optimize
           | for shortest path AND most niche path (or however you'd
           | describe this)
        
         | asdfman123 wrote:
         | It's only about 70 jumps from Allosauruses to bodybuilder and
         | trainer Mark Rippetoe
        
         | delecti wrote:
         | That is a shockingly long chain. Amusingly if you flip them,
         | Cookie links directly to Milk.
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | Just using my Wikigame skills, I went from Milk -> Hot
         | Chocolate -> Chocolate -> Chocolate chip cookie -> Cookie. This
         | path likely got downranked because all would be popular
         | articles.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | mcint wrote:
       | My first attempt I can't search donut (Doughnut is the
       | canonical), can't type the "()" parenthesis that appear in page
       | names, and can't use any of France, La France, or French Republic
       | to indicate the wiki page on France. Lots of francesca's though.
       | 
       | Fun fun, thank you for sharing! In the interactive web
       | interface*, I hope non-canonical names can be used, that shortest
       | names can be completed and exact matches can be use, and at least
       | accept what it's in page names.
       | 
       | *It looks like writing the URL fragment yourself allows more
       | leniency.
        
       | raybb wrote:
       | Pretty cool project! FYI for some reason search doesn't seem to
       | work that well.
       | 
       | hackNY won't come up and if you try try to add a place with a
       | comma (Lowell, Massachusetts) you can't type it you have to
       | scroll it.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HackNY
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowell,_Massachusetts
        
         | culi wrote:
         | I couldn't get NODAPL either. Seems to have trouble with
         | uppercased letters?
        
       | dzink wrote:
       | Horse and Astronaut are more closely connected (through the
       | shows, road, actors) than Cancer and Healthcare which are not
       | connected at all, apparently. This was the problem with public
       | datasets and counting on HTML links to build the graph of human
       | knowledge years ago. I tried to build better search at the time
       | and hit this wall. Large language models will be a bonanza for
       | new products now that the wall is broken.
        
         | jamez wrote:
         | To be clear - the point is not to display what can or cannot be
         | connected. The emphasis on this project is about the long and
         | tortuous path chosen.
         | 
         | I take your point about the limits of knowledge graphs written
         | manually vs LLMs. IMHO it's not either/or. We need both
         | curation and statistical approaches, and when they are merged
         | they give the best results. Just ask Wolfram:
         | https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2023/03/chatgpt-gets-its...
         | Edit: fixed link to Stephen Wolfram's blog.
        
       | omginternets wrote:
       | Good news: Marc Dutroux is in no way related to quantum
       | superposition.
        
       | lincpa wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | cocodill wrote:
       | hmm, that six degrees of wikipedia bridge is little weird. i
       | thought you can land from everywhere in few clicks by hitler. but
       | it takes over 70 steps to get dill from hitler.
        
       | samus wrote:
       | There is a game where the aim is to navigate between two
       | Wikipedia articles with as few hops as possible. I guess it's now
       | vastly simpler to cheat at this...
        
         | dorkwood wrote:
         | I'd be careful trying to cheat using this tool. By the sounds
         | of it, you'd lose every time.
        
         | culi wrote:
         | yes it's called six degrees of separation... and there are tons
         | of tools already built to optimize that. Did you read the post
         | at all? lol
        
       | pelagicAustral wrote:
       | I used to play a drinking game with the lads. You had to name one
       | thing/person/event and had to click on "Random Article" on
       | Wikipedia and land on that particular concept in 5 clicks or
       | less. Good times...
        
       | dopidopHN wrote:
       | Asked to connect two small town on different continent.
       | 
       | One of those town manufacture car parts. Then I got 10ish car
       | model from various brand.
       | 
       | An actor that did a commercial for one of those brand 20 years
       | ago.
       | 
       | He grew up in the second town.
       | 
       | Cool. But loose
        
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       (page generated 2023-04-15 23:02 UTC)