[HN Gopher] DJI Inspire 3: new 8k cinema drone
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       DJI Inspire 3: new 8k cinema drone
        
       Author : jackhalford
       Score  : 78 points
       Date   : 2023-04-14 20:38 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.dji.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.dji.com)
        
       | Giorgi wrote:
       | Is this the one which is supposed to leave whole camera crew
       | without jobs?
        
       | jlawer wrote:
       | The obvious question is how effective at carrying small
       | improvised explosives is it?
        
         | gpm wrote:
         | Pretty sure "fancy camera quadcopter" is the wrong quadcopter
         | to be using in a warzone where things tend to get blown up.
        
           | everly wrote:
           | Perhaps, unless those fancy cameras improve targeting
           | capabilities in a meaningful way
        
             | stavros wrote:
             | You can already get the FPV camera on the Inspire
             | standalone (looks like the O3), but I doubt it will improve
             | targeting capabilities much. The FPV link is 720p, unless
             | they changed something, but I wouldn't be surprised if they
             | use analog cameras which cost $10.
        
               | olex wrote:
               | Specs on the linked site say the FPV camera and live feed
               | have been upgraded from 480p/30 on the Inspire 2 to
               | 1080p/60 on the 3.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | Oh, nice, I guess they use the DJI FPV system with
               | Goggles 2, I forgot that was 1080p.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | Maybe not targeting but the follow up BDA reports. Instead
             | of having to send in a second drone to see the bomb damage,
             | the same system can be used! Also, no need to wait for
             | timing of a satellite pass over either.
        
         | olex wrote:
         | This is a class too big for that, you're better off with a
         | Mavic or even a Mini for lower cost, better stealth and simpler
         | one-man operation.
        
           | dist-epoch wrote:
           | > This is a class too big for that,
           | 
           | Allow me to introduce the machine gun carrying drone used in
           | Ukraine:
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1616369468069789696
        
           | steve_adams_86 wrote:
           | My experience with DJI drones is that once you put anything
           | on them, the tuning of their flight controllers leads to
           | substantially worse flight times, stability, and overall
           | safety.
           | 
           | I know the Mini 3 can carry a naked GoPro without struggling
           | too much, so a mavic might be able to carry a couple hundred
           | grams with decent performance. But the flight characteristics
           | go out the window pretty quickly, so I suspect you couldn't
           | carry much explosives on these things.
           | 
           | I have no idea how much is needed. Maybe a small amount is
           | fine.
        
       | Arch-TK wrote:
       | Do these things still require your mobile phone number to use?
        
       | KingLancelot wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | nixass wrote:
       | Cannot wait to see 8K drone footage from Ukraine
        
         | wincy wrote:
         | God I've seen the drone footage on Reddit sometimes, I don't
         | like suddenly having my Reddit feed have videos of Russian men
         | shooting themselves in the head to avoid dying via being blown
         | up by a drone dropped grenade. Absolutely awful stuff. I'm not
         | sure when Reddit became Ogrish.
        
           | iamacyborg wrote:
           | Unfortunately it always has been.
        
         | Foivos wrote:
         | Why would they use this over the much cheaper mavic?
         | 
         | On average the commercial drones in Ukraine survive 3 missions.
         | I doubt anyone would spend the price of 5 mavic drones just to
         | have more pixels at a trench.
        
       | ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
       | Is this yet another DJI drone that's not compatible with DJI's
       | own goggles?
       | 
       | If so, it's a baffling blunder they've made multiple times. This
       | one would even be more embarrassing, since they call the
       | secondary camera a "POV" camera.
       | 
       | Another issue: DJI continues to rip people off for a CinemaDNG
       | "license." CinemaDNG is a free codec that is not encumbered by
       | licensing fees. At $16,500, this scam adds insult to injury: "The
       | format is unencrypted and free from intellectual property
       | encumbrances or license requirements"
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CinemaDNG
       | 
       | The thing looks like a very cool professional tool. But these
       | repeated offenses are getting old.
        
         | cherioo wrote:
         | From the same wiki page
         | 
         | The adoption of CinemaDNG among camera manufacturers appears to
         | be hindered by Red Digital Camera's patent US9245314, which
         | covers in-camera recording of lossless compressed raw video.
         | There had been an unsuccessful attempt to invalidate the
         | patent.
        
           | davemp wrote:
           | The bar for novel/non-obvious seems really low if this patent
           | has been successfully defended.
        
             | ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
             | There is almost no bar now. The USPTO is derelict, and an
             | ignorant ruling allowed what was supposed to be illegal:
             | software patents.
             | 
             | Even worse is that Red simply ripped off JPEG2000 and got a
             | patent on it.
             | 
             | The patent "system" has become a tool for exactly what it
             | was supposed to prevent: the theft of people's work.
        
           | ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
           | DJI gets around this by moving the recording circuitry
           | outside of the camera. It's in the body of the drone, not in
           | the camera.
        
             | ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
             | "Are you implying that is sufficient to circumvent RED's
             | patent? IANAL but I would argue a camera-drone is still a
             | camera."
             | 
             | Yes, the Inspire 2 does this, and it was widely reported
             | that this is how they dodged the BS patent. The weight
             | distribution may also be another bonus, or vice versa.
             | 
             | I actually don't know why there's this perception that the
             | patent only applies to camera-internal compressed raw,
             | because Apple/Atomos have to pay Red royalties but Atomos
             | recorders are obviously external. But you hear it over and
             | over.
        
             | cherioo wrote:
             | Are you implying that is sufficient to circumvent RED's
             | patent? IANAL but I would argue a camera-drone is still a
             | camera.
             | 
             | Besides that, what you describe sounds like a decision made
             | to reduce weight of the camera module, possibly not related
             | to patent.
        
         | olex wrote:
         | The Inspire has never been intended to fly with goggles. It has
         | a dedicated "pilot view" FPV camera, but in normal usage it's
         | typically operated by a crew of two, a pilot flying line-of-
         | sight and/or via FPV camera and a dedicated main camera
         | operator, both using similar/identical remote controllers with
         | a display attached (this is typically either a large tablet or
         | a dedicated "proper" camera monitor).
        
           | ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
           | Why would it have to be "intended" for that? If someone wants
           | to do it, why prevent it? They say outright that the thing
           | uses the same generation of wireless transmission ("O3") as
           | their current goggles and stand-alone camera & transmitter.
           | 
           | Not to mention that they make a big deal out of being able to
           | send video to two destinations at once, ideal for a feed
           | going to goggles.
           | 
           | Is the drone "intended" to be carried around by hand while
           | filming? It doesn't have handles for that, and yet they show
           | a guy doing it in their promo video.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | The RAW upgrade is still significantly cheaper than Arri's RAW
         | codec. Not sure if the Arri price is still the same, but it
         | used to be higher than the cost of this drone to unlock RAW on
         | an Alexa. It was also just an image sequence rather than a
         | wrapped container format.
        
           | ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
           | Is this defending one rip-off by citing another?
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | Kind of, yeah, it is. In high end film/video gear, you know
             | you're always getting over charged for anything. So this is
             | one of those, just think, you could be paying more
             | situations. Some of that pricing for hardware does tend to
             | make a difference in quality in how rugged and durable
             | something is to survive the rough and tumble environment of
             | a production set. Can it survive the multiple remove from
             | case, build, use, tear down, throw back in case, survive
             | cases being tossed around like they are luggage loading
             | onto an airline all in on day for each company move on the
             | schedule and still be usable the next time you use it. This
             | is software only type of pricing that is ridiculous
        
       | FeistySkink wrote:
       | What's the current DJI Android compatibility?
        
       | palata wrote:
       | Let's be honest: it kind of rocks
        
       | dagorenouf wrote:
       | Looks awesome but the fact they copied the same webdesign style
       | of Apple puts me off. Why not come up with their own?
        
       | thomasjb wrote:
       | With a beautiful full frame sensor, lens mount and the carbon
       | fibre bodied lenses all there, it would be a shame if they didn't
       | start making a really light camera body with them, something on
       | the Leica-Fujifilm spectrum (Although I guess they have that
       | thanks to their Hasselblad acquisition). It would likely have
       | great potential as a travel camera if they pushed the lightweight
       | aspect
        
       | chankstein38 wrote:
       | This page is so distracting. The whole time I'm trying to read
       | their pitch there's stuff moving around everywhere pulling my eye
       | to that. I wasn't going to buy it anyway so I'm just going to go
       | ahead and close it now.
        
       | Covzire wrote:
       | 8K@75fps is pretty nice.
       | 
       | Tangent: I've been using software called SVP (SmoothVideo
       | Project) which uses AI/ML with a GPU (3090 in my case) to
       | generate additional intermediate frames for video files, turning
       | a ~24fps 4K Bluray rip into a ~48 fps or even higher. For scenes
       | with a lot of action it's a noticeable improvement, everything
       | feels smoother.
       | 
       | All that to say I hope that the industry starts moving to higher
       | frame rates for film, I'd rather have native 4K 48hz content over
       | 8k 24hz.
        
         | Beambender wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | CyberDildonics wrote:
         | This is not only not relevant, it isn't AI either. Optical flow
         | and motion interpolation have been around for over 25 years,
         | but now people are mistakenly calling them "AI".
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | James Cameron and Peter Jackson were pushing high frame rate
         | but critics absolutely hate it so I don't think it's going to
         | happen.
        
           | ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
           | James Cameron's usage of it was gravely flawed because he
           | arbitrarily kept switching back and forth between 24 and 48
           | FPS from one shot to another in Avatar 2. There's absolutely
           | no discernible pattern or motivation for the changes. WTF.
           | 
           | I wish 48 FPS were adopted widely so we could all just get
           | used to it, because it simply and undeniably renders motion
           | better.
        
             | christoph wrote:
             | Same to some extent with IMAX Blu-rays. It drives me mad
             | when certain "blockbuster" IMAX disks shift aspect and film
             | stock so quickly, just because... let's use "IMAX" for some
             | shots... It totally breaks the feel and flow of a movie for
             | me when black bars and film grain suddenly start shifting
             | about and changing. Either film and release it all in IMAX
             | or don't bother IMO.
        
           | christoph wrote:
           | I think because while visually and technically better in the
           | right hands (with multi hundred million $ budgets), it will
           | almost always end up looking like a cheap soap opera in
           | lesser hands - every imperfection in makeup, set and lighting
           | becomes immediately obvious to even an uncritical eye. It's
           | kind of similar to an uncanny valley situation in VR, side
           | note: I think ultimately AI on its current trajectory will
           | finally push forwards and make VR accepted and feasible for
           | entertainment in a multitude of ways...
           | 
           | For 4K or 8k HFR HDR live filming, you have to raise all your
           | general production values by a really crazy amount for it not
           | to look cheap and naff. Forget additional storage and
           | transmission costs of the extra data, the actual day to day
           | increases in production costs (and timelines) rapidly scales
           | far beyond those, making such trivial things like storage a
           | mere rounding error. Case in point - the most watched UK soap
           | opera "Eastenders" saw the BBC go way over budget and spend
           | PS90m+ over many years just rebuilding all of their iconic
           | sets so they could finally film it in basic HD. HFR 4K HDR
           | would require an even bigger and more serious upgrade across
           | the entire production, and a long term commitment to those
           | bigger budgets, which the BBC have clearly decided is totally
           | not feasible and also not worthwhile for a 3-4 times a week
           | half hour soap opera. It won't happen for most things because
           | HD and certainly 4K is more than good enough for most normal
           | people to enjoy video media on a screen up to around 100"'s
           | at a sensible seating distance... So most entertainment can
           | be done at a much lower cost and with way lower risk. The
           | benefits just don't and probably never will outweigh those
           | factors.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | pier25 wrote:
         | > _8K@75fps is pretty nice_
         | 
         | Apparently only when using their RAW format which costs $979
         | for a license.
         | 
         | https://store.dji.com/product/dji-inspire-3-raw-license
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | SmartTVs have had an interpreted frame rate mode for a long
         | long time now. Die hards HATE HATE HATE it.
        
           | ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
           | They hate it because it looks like shit. I'm not against
           | higher frame rates; I saw the Hobbit in 3-D 48 FPS and it was
           | the coolest movie-going experience I've had.
           | 
           | But FAKE frames? Trash.
        
             | beebeepka wrote:
             | Certain company is trying to normalize interpolated frames
             | in games which makes even less sense as it introduces
             | latency but latency is like the main reason to want high
             | frame rate in the first place. Almost exactly the same as
             | SLI/crossfire. More frames overall but they come so late...
        
           | 0x457 wrote:
           | Are you sure you're not confusing inserted generated frames
           | to "we do some annoying things that, we think, make our 60Hz
           | TV look like a 240Hz TV"?
           | 
           | Those things are incomparable.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | either way, you are showing something to the viewer that is
             | not part of the original image. whether that is the result
             | of some AI's hallucination into what it thinks is there or
             | some frame duplication/blending, it all means you've made
             | up stuff that didn't exist to trick the mind into thinking
             | it does.
        
           | oofbey wrote:
           | Diehards also think vinyl sounds better than CD, or at least
           | many used to. (You know, because CD's are digital, which
           | limits their dynamic range and frequency, whereas analog can
           | be "perfect" in theory if you don't think too hard about it.)
           | Some people are just allergic to anything that "improves
           | quality". The reason these technologies exist is because
           | _most people_ think it does improve quality. Haters gonna
           | hate.
        
             | blangk wrote:
             | Writing off subjective assessments of modes of art as
             | 'haters' seems like something a true hater might do. If you
             | admit there is a qualitative difference then it seems
             | obvious there would be mixed opinions about the different
             | modes. Latest isn't always greatest.
        
             | ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
             | Plenty of wrong here.
             | 
             | "CD's are digital, which limits their dynamic range"
             | 
             | No. In fact, some CD players used to come with discs
             | intended to demonstrate the huge dynamic range of discs. My
             | Sony portable came with Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms, one
             | of the earlier full-digital releases; it was noted for its
             | dynamic range.
             | 
             | Also, fake frames inserted into material shot at a lower
             | frame rate can't "improve" quality. It's a gimmick.
             | SHOOTING at a higher frame rate? Sure, that improves motion
             | quality.
             | 
             | On a side note: Almost all the popular music you hear today
             | on streaming services and on "remastered" albums has been
             | destroyed with dynamic compression to make it "louder."
             | Many engineers cite the early '90s as the peak of mastering
             | quality. So don't act as though people objecting to "new"
             | things are automatically wrong.
        
       | oofbey wrote:
       | What's the utility of having the propellors be able to go up and
       | down relative to the body? Usually they show the propellors way
       | above the camera, which makes sense to keep them out of view. But
       | one of the shots shows the arms way down with the propellors very
       | close to the camera. Why?
        
         | OhNoNotAnother1 wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | nomel wrote:
         | Perhaps different flight modes, with the "camera low" case
         | having a much high moment of inertia, so more stable flight?
         | The "camera high" case should reduce the moment of inertia,
         | fore more nimble movement. For rotation, moment of inertia acts
         | as "mass" does for a linear movement [1].
         | 
         | I don't think you would want to zip through obstacles in a
         | "camera low" scenario.
         | 
         | 1. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/mi.html
        
         | olex wrote:
         | Basically, this mechanics is the drone's landing gear. When on
         | the ground, the arms pivot down, allowing it to touch down with
         | the camera staying above ground level, protected from impacts.
         | When airborne, the arms pivot up, opening up a 360deg field of
         | view for the camera. DJI have done this since the original
         | Inspire 1 and it seems to work pretty well.
        
         | sc00ty wrote:
         | From the video:
         | 
         | > By having the landing gear down, an 80-degree upward gimbal
         | angle becomes available, with no obstructions in the FOV.
        
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       (page generated 2023-04-14 23:00 UTC)