[HN Gopher] ESA's Juice lifts off on quest to discover secrets o...
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       ESA's Juice lifts off on quest to discover secrets of Jupiter's icy
       moons
        
       Author : Tevias
       Score  : 108 points
       Date   : 2023-04-14 20:17 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.esa.int)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.esa.int)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | rufus_foreman wrote:
       | I guess plume flybys technically don't count as attempting a
       | landing?
        
       | t3estabc wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | macintux wrote:
       | Previous discussions over the last two days:
       | 
       | * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35568388
       | 
       | * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35551870
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Thanks! Macroexpanded:
         | 
         |  _Juice launch to Jupiter - Live [video]_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35568388 - April 2023 (29
         | comments)
         | 
         |  _ESA - Jupiter Icy Moons Explorer: Live Launch_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35551870 - April 2023 (70
         | comments)
        
       | drewg123 wrote:
       | Wow, 11 years to Jupiter. I wish we had better propulsion
       | systems.
       | 
       | EDIT: This wasn't meant to disrespect the ESA mission. I'm just
       | sad that the outer planets are years away, rather than the hours,
       | days, weeks or months of science fiction.
        
         | huhtenberg wrote:
         | 8 years, not 11.
         | 
         | > _Arrival at Jupiter - July 2031_
         | 
         | https://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/images/esa_multimedia/im...
        
           | drewg123 wrote:
           | I stand corrected. I erroneously picked up 2034 from the
           | timeline. But the point still stands; 8 years is a
           | depressingly long time. If we base missions on the
           | discoveries of previous missions, there is an 8-year minimum
           | gap between missions.
           | 
           | I'm just hoping we find evidence of extraterrestrial life in
           | my lifetime, and at this rate, we'll be cutting it close..
        
             | twic wrote:
             | Europa Clipper, which weighs about the same, is planned to
             | make the same trip in five and a half years, and could have
             | done it in less than three if it had launched on SLS:
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_Clipper#Launch_and_tra
             | j...
             | 
             | Ariane 5 is not particularly powerful as interplanetary
             | launchers go.
        
         | eep_social wrote:
         | This was an intentional choice for efficiency and to allow more
         | science at the destination, "the final flyby.. will be 3700 km
         | from Earth in November 2026" [1]
         | 
         | Really disappointing that this is top comment tbh.
         | 
         | [1] https://sci.esa.int/web/juice/-/58815-juices-journey-to-
         | jupi...
        
           | twic wrote:
           | What? How does getting there more slowly mean more science at
           | the destination? And if so, why is Europa Clipper going to
           | get there much faster?
        
             | randallsquared wrote:
             | The trade-off for a given rocket is more spacecraft (and
             | instruments to do science with) vs getting there faster.
        
             | beebeepka wrote:
             | Maybe slower speed means more time spent in close
             | proximity. Moving things don't exactly stop on their own in
             | space. Or maybe they wanted more stuff on there
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _How does getting there more slowly mean more science at
             | the destination?_
             | 
             | Mass. Small payload fast. Or large payload slower. (Also
             | flyby vs. orbital insertion. If you're going fast, you
             | don't get to loiter.)
        
         | swarnie wrote:
         | Nasa are supposedly working on it but that hasn't meant much
         | since the 60s.
         | 
         | Maybe inequality will breed a billionaire with a hard-on for
         | nuclear propulsion?
        
           | 867-5309 wrote:
           | it's a shame nuclear detonations in space are banned (for
           | obvious reasons)
        
             | sfifs wrote:
             | What is actually the obvious reason to ban nuclear
             | detonation in space (Not planetside) other than
             | proliferation & security concerns?
        
             | floxy wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_thermal_rocket
        
         | binarycoffee wrote:
         | One may count electric propulsion as a "better" propulsion
         | system, but sadly it was a poor fit for Juice due to the very
         | tight power budget.
         | 
         | Even with those gigantic solar arrays, energy management on
         | Juice is extremely challenging. Once in the vicinity of
         | Jupiter, the spacecraft will be powered by less than 4% of the
         | solar flux it receives in earth orbit.
        
       | dmix wrote:
       | Has there ever been a major unmanned project like this that blew
       | up on takeoff/failed in orbit in recent years?
       | 
       | I was listening to the huge list of gear they put on this thing
       | by a project lead and the years of hard work by scientists and it
       | would have been heartbreaking if it failed catastrophically.
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/Ljh2BKdjpmE
        
         | ChuckMcM wrote:
         | A good summary of NASA's robotic mission failures:
         | https://astronomy.com/news/2020/12/nasas-failures-robotic-sp...
         | mostly early ones as NASA developed a better process and
         | understanding for getting things right the first time.
        
         | nordsieck wrote:
         | Not sure if you count Zuma. Didn't really "blow up", but it did
         | fail to separate from the 2nd stage.
        
         | aeroman wrote:
         | There were a few Earth Observation missions that didn't make
         | orbit about 10-15 years ago. This was due to a failure of the
         | Taurus-XL fairing separation.
         | 
         | The orbiting carbon observatory (OCO) failed to reach orbit in
         | 2009 [1]. It got a replacement (a good thing, given how
         | important these measurements are.
         | 
         | Glory [2] would have had a really cool polarimiter (measuring
         | light polariasation as well as radiance, in a range of
         | different directions, but it failed in 2011 for the same reason
         | as OCO. Unfortunately, it didn't get a replacement.
         | 
         | [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbiting_Carbon_Observatory
         | 
         | [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_(satellite)
        
         | progbits wrote:
         | During the JWST streams I recall hearing this is why they went
         | with the Ariane 5 as it is the most reliable launch platform.
         | It might not be fancy, reusable or even fastest or most
         | powerful, but it will reliably lift the payload, not explode,
         | and deliver it to orbit at just the right speed. Same rocket
         | was used for Juice.
        
       | ChuckMcM wrote:
       | I'm looking forward to the results from this one. In particular
       | the idea that is discussed in the article about Ganymede's
       | magnetic field. Jupiter's orbit has a mess of radioactivity and
       | it would be really helpful if Ganymede's magnetic field made it
       | possible to exist on the surface without massive amounts of
       | shielding.
        
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       (page generated 2023-04-14 23:00 UTC)