[HN Gopher] Inmates in a Brazil prison shorten their sentences b...
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       Inmates in a Brazil prison shorten their sentences by writing book
       reviews
        
       Author : thunderbong
       Score  : 108 points
       Date   : 2023-04-14 16:25 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cbc.ca)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cbc.ca)
        
       | typon wrote:
       | Shortening sentences using longer sentences
        
         | harveywi wrote:
         | It is as if "Crime and Punishment" were written for this exact
         | purpose.
        
         | csours wrote:
         | It's good to use a variety of sentence length, as the case
         | requires.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | ankaAr wrote:
       | Noobs..
       | 
       | Argentinian condemned vice president got a sentence reduction
       | doing some courses (short ones), some from prison, some from his
       | home (he was at home confinament because he alleged he must care
       | of their childs (?
       | 
       | DDBB programmer(? Electrician Another electrician one, but
       | longer. Events organizer Philosophy
       | 
       | He got almost 1 year cut.
       | 
       | He was condemned because he bought the company that printed paper
       | money :D
       | 
       | What a nice country!
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | Noobs? Our entire government is made up of corrupt officials.
         | The lawyer of the biggest organized drug trafficking gang in
         | the country is in the supreme court and electoral court and by
         | now the nation has essentially turned into a judiciary monarchy
         | of sorts. They basically erased our president's crimes, undid
         | the entire investigation into him and his party and basically
         | buried everything, and now this corrupt communist ex-con is in
         | power. They're trying to ban Bolsonaro from politics right now
         | for "abuse of political power" or some other equally vague made
         | up crime. Biden actually backed this communist and then had to
         | watch him strengthen ties with China. Our impeached former
         | president is now chief of some BRICS bank thing and making like
         | $100k+ a month to do fuck all. It's comical. This country ain't
         | for amateurs.
        
       | zac23or wrote:
       | Homicides in Brazil lead to 6 years in prison. The system doesn't
       | work, but we have these gems like "if inmates read books...", the
       | cherry on top of shit.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | Make a racist joke or something though and you'll probably get
         | 20+ years.
        
       | pkaye wrote:
       | Initially I was reading "sentences" as a line of text and nothing
       | made sense.
        
         | bandyaboot wrote:
         | Yeah I was thinking this might be a trick. Prisoners who write
         | book reviews are eligible to have their sentences shortened
         | [during the editing process].
        
         | geodel wrote:
         | It made total sense to me. With increase in command over
         | language inmates started using shorter sentences instead of
         | long ones without break.
        
       | CaptainNegative wrote:
       | Amazon Meconical Turk
        
         | Takennickname wrote:
         | Bet this is gonna be true in less than 10 years. Train some AI
         | to shorten your sentence.
        
         | csours wrote:
         | Meconvictical ? (I like this one because it sounds really dumb)
         | 
         | Meconvictal ?
        
       | ugh123 wrote:
       | >Each well-written review would shave four days off an inmate's
       | sentence.
       | 
       | What about lifers?
        
         | jutrewag wrote:
         | Wow. So you could write enough reviews in a month to shave off
         | 10+ years.
        
       | scohesc wrote:
       | Part of me wonders if some of the prisoners have others write
       | book reports for them.
       | 
       | Kind of like an Con(vict)GPT of some sorts.
       | 
       | It's a very interesting idea - allows the prisoners that really
       | want to improve and change their lives the opportunity to lower
       | their sentence and get out quicker.
       | 
       | Also has the side effect of becoming more educated potentially.
        
         | outworlder wrote:
         | > Part of me wonders if some of the prisoners have others write
         | book reports for them.
         | 
         | Why would someone write a report for others if they could
         | shorten their own sentence instead?
         | 
         | Also:
         | 
         | > Because the inmates were passionate readers, they were
         | encouraged to write book reviews.
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | > Why would someone write a report for others if they could
           | shorten their own sentence instead?
           | 
           | I think they mean sort of "ghost-reviewing", possibly under
           | threats. Like I tell you to write a book review in my name,
           | or I'd beat you up.
        
           | Rebelgecko wrote:
           | If it's the same program described here[1], there's a cap on
           | how much credit a prisoner could get per year. Once they hit
           | that point, many people would take the opportunity to make
           | their life on the inside easier. However supposedly they were
           | proctored while writing the book reports to avoid blatant
           | cheating.
           | 
           | 1: https://www.npr.org/2017/07/04/535530400/in-brazil-some-
           | inma...
        
           | antibasilisk wrote:
           | >Why would someone write a report for others if they could
           | shorten their own sentence instead?
           | 
           | There are things people might prefer to a shortened sentence,
           | such as money on the outside.
        
           | operatingthetan wrote:
           | >Why would someone write a report for others if they could
           | shorten their own sentence instead?
           | 
           | Isn't this like asking why economies exist?
        
             | hervature wrote:
             | Not sure why you're getting downvoted. It's a fair point.
             | The dollar someone else might pay for you to reduce their
             | sentence might be higher than you would get outside. It's
             | all about comparative advantage.
        
       | mkmk wrote:
       | Short documentary on the subject here:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ5dM-uRPPo (english subtitles)
        
       | bloomingeek wrote:
       | If I was ever stupid enough to commit a crime worthy of prison, I
       | would want to have an active, outside job. Example: cleaning up
       | old cemeteries, repairing park trails, working in a recycle
       | facilities... I realize there's the possibility of liability, and
       | yes, I have seen the movie "Cool Hand Luke", but non-activity is
       | almost inhuman. Punishment is essential, but common sense must
       | prevail.
        
         | Ar-Curunir wrote:
         | > stupid enough to commit a crime worthy of prison
         | 
         | This is a terrible attitude. Go read some of the other
         | comments, and maybe learn a bit about the prison-industrial
         | complex and how it incentivizes to law-enforcement agencies to
         | maximize the number of people in prison. Try arguing that this
         | system would only target "stupid people", and not, say,
         | communities that are easy targets, and historically over-
         | policed.
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | Good idea to learn useful skills. Just two caveats:
       | 
       | 1) This can easily become cheap labor for outside companies, like
       | book publishers, in this case. Books with many reviews sell
       | better than books with none, I've been told. Any self-published
       | author will receive unsolicited email offering to review their
       | books.
       | 
       | 2) With respect to "rehabilitation": a substantial number of
       | prison inmates have psychopathic traits [1]. That's not to say
       | they're unemployable; it may even be an asset in some professions
       | [2] /s
       | 
       | [1] https://www.apa.org/monitor/2022/03/ce-corner-psychopathy
       | 
       | [2] https://www.amazon.com/Snakes-Suits-When-Psychopaths-Work-
       | eb...?
        
       | sdfghswe wrote:
       | Get ChatGPT to do it, commit more crimes.
        
       | AdrianB1 wrote:
       | In Romania writing books reduced the prison sentences by months,
       | not days. Writing a book is not even hard because there was no
       | problem to get "help" from outside with the content.
        
       | lsllc wrote:
       | Here's a list of books for review:                 * Shawshank
       | Redemption       * The Count of Monte Cristo       * Papillon
       | * How to Escape From Prison       * The Great Escape
       | 
       | Actually, I wonder if prison libraries are allow to carry such
       | books that might inspire prisoners to escape or otherwise give
       | them ideas.
        
         | noirscape wrote:
         | IIRC prison libraries do get screened for that sorta thing.
         | Overly violent novels for example aren't allowed in prisons
         | because of concerns that it might lead to criminals thinking
         | violence is more acceptable. (So no Fight Club for example.)
        
         | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
         | Are you concerned that the prisoners would think of escape only
         | after reading said book? I think you'd be able to spot the
         | deception the first time an inmate asked for a poster of Rita
         | Hayworth.
        
       | jeffwask wrote:
       | Anecdotally, my brother in law was in US prison (federal) and we
       | would send him books all the time and he would read them and
       | trade them around for other books. It's hard to contextualize how
       | much nothing they have to do in prison. Reading is literally one
       | of the only things you could be guaranteed to be able to do on a
       | day to day basis regardless of lock down status.
        
         | rqtwteye wrote:
         | I have seen videos where they trained dogs or had adopted
         | rescue cats. I think a lot of prisoners would do way better if
         | they got a chance to feel like a productive member of society.
         | Them being firefighters in California wildfires comes to mind
         | too.
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | There is generally two types of prisons in the world, one is
           | "Punish"/"Keep rest of the world safe" prisons, and the other
           | is "Rehabilitation" prisons. The latter tries to make people
           | be able to re-integrate after finishing the sentence, while
           | the first doesn't care as long as they are imprisoned and
           | kept away from the rest of "normal folks". Convincing people
           | that rehabilitation is possible is a huge job, and I don't
           | see that happening in the US anytime soon.
        
             | wefarrell wrote:
             | Rehabilitation requires education and social services and
             | once you start providing those resources to prisoners
             | people question the logic of giving prisoners something for
             | free that everyone else has to pay for. Why should a
             | prisoner get access to college classes while a law abiding
             | citizen has to pay tens of thousands of dollars? Of course
             | it winds up saving the state money by decreasing
             | recidivism, but it raises inconvenient questions.
        
               | Ar-Curunir wrote:
               | The correct answer, of course, is that everyone should
               | have access to basic educational and social services.
               | This is unpopular with many in the US.
        
             | diveandfight wrote:
             | Rather than types, maybe those qualities are more like ends
             | on a spectrum?
        
               | strken wrote:
               | Maybe even axes on a graph, where prisons strive to be on
               | the Pareto front at different points.
        
               | rqtwteye wrote:
               | It's a very US thing to present issues as one side or the
               | other, "Left or Right", "Capitalist or Socialist" with
               | nothing between. In reality almost everything is on a
               | (multi-dimensional) spectrum with a lot of nuance. This
               | binary thinking is reinforced by TV and social media and
               | is tearing the country apart.
        
             | quacked wrote:
             | "Rehabilitation" is in many cases a misnomer. There's a
             | difference between Rehabilitating someone who developed a
             | problem and Habilitating someone who was never taught to
             | think with a moral compass. People in the US could be
             | convinced to get behind major prison reform if the
             | reformers weren't so insistent on representing every felon
             | as Jean Valjean.
        
               | rqtwteye wrote:
               | "People in the US could be convinced to get behind major
               | prison reform if the reformers weren't so insistent on
               | representing every felon as Jean Valjean."
               | 
               | It's pretty crazy to blame the current situation on
               | reformers. In reality it's the war on drugs and "tough on
               | crime". I know a lot of normally reasonable people who
               | think prisoners deserve to be raped in prison and don't
               | deserve health care.
        
               | Paul-Craft wrote:
               | Right. It's well known that Nixon started the "War on
               | Drugs" as a way to target hippies and black people. And
               | "tough on crime" has just led to people spending more
               | time in prison in spite of falling crime rates:
               | https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2020/oct/1/new-
               | study-sh...
        
               | at_a_remove wrote:
               | I was watching an interesting video of a young woman who
               | had just gotten a DUI. She didn't understand why it was a
               | "thing" because she hadn't hit anyone. She managed to
               | argue herself into two months in the county jail because
               | she didn't understand and did not _want_ to understand.
               | She also tried, briefly, to make a case that she was too
               | attractive for prison. Upon questioning, it was fairly
               | clear that she would go on to reoffend.
               | 
               | I saw another video of five teens who liked throwing
               | heavy rocks over a busy overpass. They had done this more
               | than once. Of course, they ended up killing someone,
               | after which text messages were exchanged with much LOL
               | and LFMOA and HAHAHA. Apparently, they had pre-planned
               | some kind of defense where everyone would agree that the
               | eldest of the bunch was the only one throwing the rocks,
               | as well. The four youngest got a year of probation. The
               | eldest got three and a quarter years in prison. He's out
               | and the rest are long clear of their probation.
               | 
               | I am unsure what could be done to rehabilitate these
               | individuals rather than merely coercing lip service from
               | them.
        
               | throwway120385 wrote:
               | I am equally unsure. But I believe we have a
               | responsibility to try to help the weakest members of our
               | society become better people, and if that means locking
               | them up for a while and trying to teach them a moral
               | compass that's what we should try even if it's doomed to
               | failure. It can't be any worse than what we're currently
               | doing.
        
               | AlbertCory wrote:
               | Psychopathic individuals mainly use therapy as post-
               | graduate training in how to simulate human emotion. Just
               | ask some shrinks. They don't learn a moral compass; they
               | learn how to pretend they have one.
               | 
               | Of course, not all inmates are psychopathic, but 15-25%
               | manifest those traits, according to
               | https://www.apa.org/monitor/2022/03/ce-corner-
               | psychopathy.
        
               | noirscape wrote:
               | General (not targeted) guidance counseling once they're
               | out of prison probably would help here. Just help to get
               | them back on their feet for the woman. Regular checkups,
               | seeing how she's doing, giving the indication someone
               | cares about her. This can do a lot to help someone
               | understand what they did wrong and can help them
               | understand that being a part of society means thinking
               | about others as well. (Chiefly, don't do this in a way
               | that's denigrating to her as a person.)
               | 
               | Involve CPS with all the teenagers.
               | 
               | The woman probably had other things in her life that
               | caused her to end up with that remorseless of a
               | personality - granted I suspect a part of this might also
               | just be the American general tendency to take rights as
               | "fuck you got mine", instead of "we have to share this
               | place together", which might be hard to deal with
               | (assuming this is US).
               | 
               | The teenagers probably had inattentive parents or a bad
               | school life, which turned them to doing shit that is
               | pretty much harassing people that eventually would get
               | someone killed. It sounds almost certain like there's
               | secondary circumstances involved - petty theft is usually
               | scared out (since teenagers tend to do it because of the
               | "taboo", the fact that most kids don't see real
               | consequences of their actions until then and finally that
               | it's seen as the least egregious crime that isn't like...
               | a speeding violation or a parking ticket), but if that
               | defense is as you say, it sounds more deliberate and more
               | deeply rooted.
               | 
               | Crimes are sometimes a symptom of other things, not the
               | cause.
        
           | jeffwask wrote:
           | He had a job running the commissary but even that only filled
           | so much time. He would have loved anything that allowed him
           | to learn a skill he could have used on release.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | LambdaComplex wrote:
           | > Them being firefighters in California wildfires comes to
           | mind too
           | 
           | Those are the ones that aren't allowed to work as
           | firefighters once they're out of prison due to their criminal
           | records, right?
        
             | 8ytecoder wrote:
             | https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/912193742/california-bill-
             | cle...
        
             | anonporridge wrote:
             | Correct. It's not rehabilitation or job training, it's
             | legal slave labor to do one of the most dangerous jobs we
             | have, as explicitly allowed for by the 13th Amendment of
             | the Constitution.
             | 
             | The United States still has legal slavery, just with extra
             | steps.
        
               | pb7 wrote:
               | Except no one is forcing them, they choose to do it
               | because it gives them purpose.
        
               | hkt wrote:
               | > just with extra steps
               | 
               | I thought the whole thing here was that for inmates,
               | there weren't any extra steps?
               | 
               | I'll confess to not knowing much about this though (I'm
               | not American)
        
               | hirsin wrote:
               | The extra steps are the ones between them being a free
               | person and an inmate.
        
               | anonporridge wrote:
               | Like making loitering a crime and then using police and
               | prosecutor discretion to selectively enforce said crime
               | only against poor minorities.
               | 
               | And like magic! You can re-enslave the people who were
               | 'freed'.
        
         | ALittleLight wrote:
         | We (society) should get them access to Khan Academy plus a
         | ChatGPT style interface for interactive tutoring. Imagine
         | giving each prisoner a tablet, possibly wrapped in the kids
         | edition foam so they couldn't hit each other with it, and
         | letting them work through basic education in every field
         | they're interested in.
         | 
         | I expect people who worked on it would come out of a
         | substantial sentence better educated than most.
        
           | egypturnash wrote:
           | That would be nice, but first you have to get around the
           | nightmarish world of for-profit corporations that control all
           | prisoner access to information and communication in the US.
           | The system is designed to bleed every penny possible from
           | prisoners and their families, not to rehabilitate them.
        
             | ALittleLight wrote:
             | I think for profit prisons are a small fraction of the
             | carceral system. Most prisons are government run.
             | 
             | Even in the case of private prisons what we need is to
             | align incentives. We shouldn't be mainly paying per inmate,
             | but rather give the private prison X% of the inmate's taxes
             | after release and nothing if the inmate offends again. The
             | idea is, we don't want to incentivize prisons to just hold
             | people - that actually incentivizes the prisons to promote
             | recidivism. We do want the prisons to impart job and life
             | skills that will make the prisoner a productive and law
             | abiding member of society after release.
        
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