[HN Gopher] Joel Warner's "The Curse of the Marquis de Sade"
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       Joel Warner's "The Curse of the Marquis de Sade"
        
       Author : samclemens
       Score  : 26 points
       Date   : 2023-04-14 02:40 UTC (20 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (lareviewofbooks.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (lareviewofbooks.org)
        
       | fatneckbeard wrote:
       | never understand why people are fascinated by this child rapist.
       | just like the "dahmer fans".
       | 
       | here is an interesting french person. Sophie Germain. Write an
       | article about her. spend money studying her. put a biography of
       | her out. put her in your literary magazines. celebrate her. make
       | movies about her. she never raped anyone. she helped found number
       | theory which you use every time you pick up a phone or a
       | computer.
        
         | epups wrote:
         | Most famous people from that period are child rapists or worse
         | (slavers, serial murderers, etc.). I don't care about Sade but
         | this is not a great argument
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | Instead of putting down what others are creating, how about you
         | submit a creation of your own that is more to your liking?
        
           | eternalban wrote:
           | OP was asking why de Sade is promoted so heavily. From a
           | philosophical point of view he is _a non-entity_ , from an
           | erotica point of view he is _dime a dozen_ , but it is true
           | that as far as how low can the beastly nature of man get, he
           | has 'contributed' to literature.
           | 
           | OP's question is also my question. Why is this vile little
           | man being promoted so much? After all, his entire existence
           | and works are simply a declaration that humanity and nature
           | are really just _playthings for pleasure and settling scores
           | with an abhored nature_ for a people like the Marquis. I can
           | see how that sort of  'philosophy' would carry weight in some
           | influential quarters.
        
             | narag wrote:
             | _OP was asking why de Sade is promoted so heavily._
             | 
             | "Promoted" or "fascinated" are the wrong words. Sade is a
             | classic and that's not because he was a nice guy. The same
             | happens with many other famous authors. Fame is not a prize
             | for being virtuous. It's what he wrote, not what he was.
             | 
             | If you want to censor his books, you're not punishing him,
             | the man has been dead for a long time, he doesn't care.
             | You're punishing all potential readers.
        
               | eternalban wrote:
               | I said nothing about censorship. I read it and strongly
               | suggest anyone who runs into the de Sade promotion parade
               | to actually read his output. Pick any book. [Not just the
               | naughty bits! Read the 'philosophical' interludes so as
               | to not miss the wisdom of this 'fascinating' man.]
               | 
               | No. Not fascinated, heavily promoted:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_de_Sade_in_popular_
               | cul...
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | cafard wrote:
             | Once at Borders, I was interested to see a small sign in
             | the D area of fiction, informing customers that de Sade was
             | shelved under S. I assumed that they didn't have a sign in
             | the Vs for Goethe.
        
             | distant_hat wrote:
             | A simple answer is that people are fascinated by the
             | grotesque whereas wholesome stuff is just blah. 50 Shades
             | of Grey is an perfectly mediocre novel, but will sell many
             | tens of multiples of critically acclaimed books.
        
               | eternalban wrote:
               | Sure, but this stuff is pushed from on high not down
               | below. Sade is promoted and held up as something (not
               | sure precisely what) important.
               | 
               | So the simple rebut is that the pseudo intellectual
               | classes always poo poo what appeals to the common man.
               | But they love this stuff, and, the common people do not
               | like it. That's really the only thing that is interesting
               | about de Sade and his fan club: _the curious inversion_.
               | 
               | & p.s. my personal sense is that de Sade legitimizes
               | oppression as _natural pleasure_ and that's what makes
               | him the court philosopher of the modern elite.
        
               | cubefox wrote:
               | When I read "the modern elite" ... like who? Elon Musk?
               | Joe Biden? NYT journalists?
        
               | eternalban wrote:
               | > elon musk
               | 
               | that's funny in a sad way. no, the post-enlightenment
               | post-rationalist elite, the 'modern age'.
        
               | Centigonal wrote:
               | I mean, this does exist:
               | https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/214636339474345984
               | 
               | And this: https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.ibm.pc.har
               | dware.misc/c/...
               | 
               | Safe to say Elon has some affinity for De Sade.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | Really? its about cultural appropriation, UNESCO treaties and
       | Switzerland, and the securitisation of investment in documents
       | and stamps with a dash of tax, ponzi more than the effect "Sade"
       | has on any story. I don't think very many prior owners felt it
       | was "cursed" -They just disputed the means of owning it, and who
       | had better claim. Value wise, it certainly went up (until the
       | Ponzi scheme value went bananas)
       | 
       | There's not a perversion in sight, except the financial. He wrote
       | it on a roll like Kerouac. That was new to me (Kerouac had a
       | typewriter. De Sade had a pot of glue. I hope it was glue. Maybe
       | he made do with what was to hand...)
       | 
       | The same curse can be said to vest in almost any literary work
       | which has gone missing in action. It's why "the Hitler Diaries"
       | happened: the value to some of the goods as handled is
       | inestimable. People still say the Mona Lisa returned after theft
       | is a fake and some Mafia lord has the real one in a safe, to
       | gloat over. Perhaps that's why "glass onion" had it?
       | 
       | "Possession" by A.S.Byatt is a fictionalisation of the problem.
       | Beautifully written.
       | 
       | If you were a soi-disant author, man of letters, handy with a
       | whip, and about to be consumed by the wreckage of your prison ..
       | wouldn't you grab that roll of bog-paper you'd been writing on?
       | Apparently not. Maybe he was saner than people think?
        
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       (page generated 2023-04-14 23:01 UTC)