[HN Gopher] I've been single all my life
___________________________________________________________________
I've been single all my life
Author : amin
Score : 83 points
Date : 2023-04-12 20:07 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (lukasrosenstock.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (lukasrosenstock.net)
| seedead99 wrote:
| I do think it can be especially hard in this industry, being
| male-dominated, with less social interaction, and not masculine
| in any traditional sense. I think of careers as containers, or
| vases, that we eventually grow to fit. Some vases are
| particularly odd-shaped and hard for potential partners to
| evaluate.
| sublinear wrote:
| Why are there so many articles about this lately?
|
| I don't see what the problem is or why being single is such a
| tragedy. Single doesn't mean being alone. Not everyone wants
| serious long term relationships and monogamy is on a serious
| decline.
|
| People used to aspire to have the single lifestyle we now pretend
| is so sad and lonely. Sounds like propaganda to me. We're
| overpopulated. Can't the prole have this one thing and thin out
| in style?
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| I'd wonder how many women this guy (and guys who relate to this
| post) are incidentally meeting every week.
|
| When I was in my mid 20s after uni, it was basically zero. Just
| women at work, if even that.
|
| If so, this is basically the result you can expect and nothing is
| going to change until you get those numbers up.
|
| The common thread I see with guys not meeting women is almost
| never "I meet a lot of women but they never like me". It almost
| always cashes out into "oh yeah, I don't really meet women
| anyways." Yet they'll carry around this whole constellation of
| self-limiting beliefs as if they were living the former scenario.
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| So... how does one actually meet women?
| ZephyrBlu wrote:
| 100%. Exposure is almost always the problem.
| tennisflyi wrote:
| Yes and it's expensive money and time wise. All day at work.
| Almost all money to bills. Repeat.
| numbers_guy wrote:
| He lives in Germany too, where it takes way more effort to turn
| an incidental encounter into something more.
|
| And I agree with you. I think, for a lot of these guys, if you
| literally never ever get a good chance, then of course that you
| go into "monk mode". I only fell in love the first time at 22,
| because I met a girl who I found amazing. The second time at
| 28, again because I very randomly met a girl who was amazing.
| mattrighetti wrote:
| > He lives in Germany too, where it takes way more effort to
| turn an incidental encounter into something more.
|
| This is a classic, I've heard people say stuff like this in
| basically every country that I visited. I don't think it is
| something that can be measured, it's just something super
| subjective and a bit of a stereotype.
|
| From my experience, I've noticed that typically individuals
| will say this of people with their same nationality (or from
| their own country in general). The same individuals will then
| argue that "Oh, I've been in country X and girls/boys are way
| easier to date" but I don't think that is related to the
| country itself.
| Invictus0 wrote:
| People that choose to live primarily in the world of logic and
| reason sometimes forget to nurture their emotions and feelings,
| and that side of them can atrophy. I suspect this guy has hidden
| and suppressed his desires due to some fears about relationships.
| passion__desire wrote:
| Or maybe he doesn't see emotions just as Aphantasia people
| don't see images in the mind. As Temple Grandin would say, "The
| world needs all kinds of minds."
| jakeva wrote:
| I haven't been single all my life, but the relationships I have
| had have taught me things that makes it easier to be single. I
| remember the good times fondly, but the bad times remind me why
| being single isn't so bad.
| april23 wrote:
| [flagged]
| hammyhavoc wrote:
| How many years has it been since your last bad experience?
|
| Because I used to relate to this sentiment, but with time (a
| decade), it all disappears, and whilst not on speaking terms,
| all is forgiven from my end. People talk about "personal
| growth", and whilst I wrote it off as hogwash, actually, no,
| letting go of the past is a huge part of that. It can be done.
| carbine wrote:
| I'm a woman and have had long serious relationships and long-
| ish stretches of being single. Took me a while to filter
| through all the social pressure BS and realize that, on
| balance, I have been way (WAY) happier single. Maybe this could
| change one day? But right now I have no interest in changing
| it. It'd take someone extraordinary. I'm not 'poly' or
| 'asexual' or any of that crap, I've just had to give up so much
| of my time and energy for relationships that ultimately left me
| worse off in every way. By contrast, on my own I can do what I
| want with my time and energy, and I'm surrounded by wonderful
| friends and family.
|
| If we put less social pressure on people to pair bond, some
| non-zero percentage of the population would be genuinely
| happier.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| I'm a man and I _definitely_ see more pressure on women to
| pair off, at least at younger ages. With men (particularly
| driven or ambitious men), there 's a societal "he'll settle
| down eventually" but with women "eventually" is like "late
| 20s"
| JasserInicide wrote:
| It's not just social pressure, it's simply a biological
| fact. For each year after ~30, the chance of having
| something wrong with a child during pregnancy goes up. On
| average in relationships, women's greatest value is their
| youth and beauty (early/mid 20s), men's greatest value is
| when they've progressed in their career and are amassing
| wealth (mid/late 30s). There's nothing wrong about pointing
| this out, they're just the realities about modern
| relationships. Yet we can never honestly discuss them
| because people have a hard time controlling their emotions
| about it.
| maxbond wrote:
| Women are not baby machines or objects of beauty, they're
| people. Their "greatest value" is whatever they decide it
| to be. They should form relationships in the way that
| brings them the most happiness.
|
| Reducing women to objects of beauty, saying their value
| comes from their fertility, and implying that if they
| disagree with that assessment it's because they're too
| emotional is almost the dictionary definition of
| misogyny. I hope you'll reconsider this attitude.
| dekhn wrote:
| I think I understand the point you're trying to make, but
| this is the sort of discussion board where many people
| are literalists. Women literally are baby machines: from
| the perspective of biology, and as a critical asset in
| the development of the human race (especially during
| times of high child mortality).
|
| People get upset when you point this out, but they don't
| get upset because it's the truth, they get upset because
| of what they think the consequences of people knowing
| that truth will be. There are many things which can't be
| debated in public because it causes people (not just
| women) to get extremely emotional and retreat to lizard-
| brain defenses. My hope is that on HN, we can learn to
| control those responses.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| > People get upset when you point this out, but they
| don't get upset because it's the truth, they get upset
| because of what they think the consequences of people
| knowing that truth will be.
|
| Or they get upset because they aren't Nihilists and
| believe in some form of personal meaning besides
| perpetuating the species?
| rektide wrote:
| Masculinity can be quite isolating/toxic but it's emphasis on
| your intra-tionship, your living with yourself, on relying on
| yourself, has arisen in my mind in the past couple years as a
| kind of interesting aspect that feels undersocialized, out
| shadowed by other discussions of the male gender norms. I
| hope it wouldn't be too unfair to say that women are regarded
| as more social, as relying more on their friends & community.
| It's a complex issue with all kinds of problems wrapped in
| it, but there's a thread here that doesn't have the discourse
| or discussion that I think could help people somewhat
| identify with self focusing. That said, it absolutely does
| not have to be a gendered discussion either! But it does seem
| like there's so many examples walking around of a kind of
| neat way of living & modest not a-sociality, but kind of less
| compromising prioritizing of what is good for oneself in how
| we make & navivate our social arrangements.
|
| And I'm shifting focus here some, trying to get a more macro
| view than just the question of partnership. But hopefully
| this idea of social temperament/directivity makes sense as
| being a broader difference in how we are nurtured or natured.
| all2 wrote:
| > Masculinity can be quite isolating/toxic but it's
| emphasis on your intra-tionship, your living with yourself,
| on relying on yourself, has arisen in my mind in the past
| couple years as a kind of interesting aspect that feels
| undersocialized, out shadowed by other discussions of the
| male gender norms.
|
| I think somewhere along the line "self-reliance" became
| conflated with "anti-social". I've had to put in concerted
| effort to build my social network of men I can lean on for
| social activities and accountability. Being by oneself can
| make almost any task seem insurmountable. Couple that with
| being self-reliant and you have a recipe for disaster. It
| is no wonder so many men are committing suicide.
| jamesgill wrote:
| There's no algorithm for relationships, or entering one, or
| leaving one. It's a series of choices and actions with
| unpredictable results.
|
| This makes some people so uncomfortable that they blame a
| mythological algorithm ('oh, haven't had any opportunities', 'oh,
| I just don't want to settle') instead of just making choices and
| taking actions. This is why dating apps are popular, because they
| promote the idea that relationships can be reduced to algorithms
| of trait selection and numeric increase in 'opportunities'.
| nivenkos wrote:
| He doesn't say how old he is though, in your 20s this isn't so
| uncommon at all.
| baking wrote:
| I was happily single until my mid-thirties and wasn't even really
| looking for a relationship. I realize now that getting married
| probably saved my life. Married men life much longer than single
| men because they have someone to tell them to go to the doctor.
|
| So yeah, stay single if you want, but get a good doctor and don't
| skip the annual physicals.
| SoftAnnaLee wrote:
| The OP reminds me of some of the aromantic and asexual folk I've
| known. Not necessarily prescribing any label on his account. Just
| merely a thought based on a particular line is one I've heard a
| number times; > my general reply is the combination of a lack of
| opportunities and a lack of desire
|
| That said, I am very interested in hearing him extrapolate his
| thoughts further. I do use the aromantic and asexual label myself
| (in particular the gray aroace label), though I always find the
| little nuances in how different people express themselves
| incredibly fascinating.
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| This might get a little weird... but I think some people might
| be interested in my perspective on intimacy and relationships.
|
| I'm asexual, but not aromantic (or adverse to sex).
| "Relationships" aren't high on my priority list. All of my
| friendships are platonic and I'm quite happy with that. Where
| it gets weird for people is several of them are emotionally
| intimate and physically tactile.
|
| For men in the US, touch is wrapped up in sex and
| relationships. The idea of cuddling with someone else without
| any sexual relationship is strange. It's one of the reasons I'm
| drawn to the furry fandom. For the most part, furries know some
| people have a need for touch without a need relationships or
| sex and don't consider it weird. (Whether or not a given furry
| will respect that boundary that is a very different thing.)
|
| If it's hard to imagine what this is, think of how a dog or cat
| curls up on your lap. That's basically how I feel about
| physical closeness. It has nothing to do with the deep of my
| friendship and everything to do with how my friend feels about
| it.
|
| So... relationships.
|
| All of my emotional needs are fulfilled by my friends. Living
| with someone else seems like too much effort for not enough
| reward. I don't need sex... I have people I can touch... I have
| people I can call if I need help... If housework or rent was an
| issue, I could get a roommate. What's left? :)
| Gigachad wrote:
| The furry fandom is honestly the easiest way to meet people
| imo. I recently moved city and the first thing I did is
| locate the local group and see what the events are. See there
| is a weekly bar meet so I show up and everyone immediately
| treats you like a long time friend. People are pretty
| respectful of your boundaries but you can almost use it like
| a dating scene if you want. So much better than apps.
| bravoetch wrote:
| [flagged]
| schizo89 wrote:
| There is something fundamentally wrong with this world,
| obviously. I'm standing the same stance for lat 8 years.
| input_sh wrote:
| Your username is literally schizo. Maybe it's you.
| zokier wrote:
| 8-year olds should not be on HN.
| throwbadubadu wrote:
| Agreed, there is a lot wrong with this world ;) But what do you
| mean or how relating to the article? That you are in that
| stance? Or expectations of others? Please explain.
| schizo89 wrote:
| I have experienced a major schizophrenia for 5 years starting
| in 2015 and since that I never attempted dating or having
| interpersonal relationships. Now it's a part of my
| personality.
|
| I won't go in detail though. I don't feel any negative
| emotions or have any thoughts about that as I'm using
| antidepressants to shut down the libido.
|
| After some biohacking I feel a competitive advantage in
| social realm and view this as a gift. There's non-compete for
| women, no social racing for status, and it all boils down to
| fundamental values. That's super christian catholic way of
| life, and I'm fine with it now.
|
| What I was expecting initially is that someone will check on
| me, but that never happened.
| sergiomattei wrote:
| I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum. I'm 23 and have
| experienced a solid number of partners and committed
| relationships.
|
| After my last long-term relationship however, I realized how much
| time and energy these commitments take. I've noticed that after a
| while, I tend to lose myself in long term R's, and I hate the
| feeling.
|
| This ends my relationships. It starts out fine, with healthy and
| strong boundaries with regards to personal time and energy. Over
| time, the compromises eat away at me, and I find myself with very
| little time for my own pursuits and personal growth.
|
| It's odd too, because I'm quite aware of my boundaries and strong
| with them. Something about relationships or my partners slowly
| erodes them.
|
| Near the end, I feel so suffocated that I'm usually becoming
| distant and breaking things off.
|
| Singlehood is liberating, but I hate that I love my partners and
| I can't figure out a way to stop repeating this harmful pattern.
| It's either something wrong with me, or something wrong with how
| I pick my partners.
|
| Has anyone faced this?
| em-bee wrote:
| i haven't made this experience as strongly as i was able to
| find time for my own things in my work (being selfemployed at
| times and having a partner that had a well paid job too which
| lessened the pressure on me to focus on income helped) but what
| i realized is important is support from my partner for my
| interests and goals (and of course i should equally support my
| partners goals)
|
| without that support, compromises meant that i would have to
| give up my goals in favor of a happy relationship. and maybe
| this is what you are experiencing. find a partner that actually
| supports your goals and interests (that doesn't mean that they
| need to have the same goals and interests, but only that they
| should not be conflicting, as well as they should have goals
| you are willing to support)
| sergiomattei wrote:
| This is something I must watch out for in future partners,
| and you hit it right on with the compromises bit.
|
| Thank you for sharing your experience.
| all2 wrote:
| > Something about relationships or my partners slowly erodes
| them.
|
| Simply put: fear of losing access to sex will make many men
| compromise a lot. There are other things that can contribute to
| this, such as "wanting her to be happy" being conflated with
| "she will only be happy if she gets her way".
|
| I recommend you read _No More Mr. Nice Guy_ and see if it rings
| any bells for you.
|
| A strong commitment to boundaries doesn't do a lot for you if
| you capitulate every time.
| sergiomattei wrote:
| I've read that book and found it very helpful.
|
| As for the reasoning behind my actions, I often feel it's not
| only about sex, but a deeper need to avoid confrontation and
| keep a relative peace in the relationship.
|
| In one of my last relationships, part of the problem was a
| constant war over my personal boundaries. My partner was
| requiring too much of my attention and energy, pushing
| things, moving fast at every turn. This eventually eroded the
| lines I set.
|
| This situation is something I need to keep an eye out for
| future relationships!
| vacuumcl wrote:
| The author says, "I can't even say whether I'm voluntarily or
| involuntarily single," and I think this is telling. When you're
| dealing with anxiety and overthinking, it's easy to lose touch
| with your feelings and become unsure of why you do things the way
| you do. I know that's how it's been for me to some extent.
|
| You've got to push past it, though, and take the plunge to ask
| people out even if they might reject you or even if it might
| break some social norms. I just got out of a long-term
| relationship and am also approaching my thirties. When I met her,
| she was my housemate during university years. My other housemates
| and friends said it would be inappropriate to make a move, but I
| went for it anyway, and it gave me 9 years of happiness.
| gtop3 wrote:
| Bella DePaulo is probably the leading scholar on the social
| prejudice and discrimination on single individuals. The fact that
| the author of the article introduces the term "incel" to deal
| with this extremely negative stereotype in the second paragraph
| highlights this prejudice. If you're interested in learning more
| about the ways single individuals are treated unfairly in
| society, Dr. DePaulo has many articles and books published on the
| topic.
| amin wrote:
| Any chance you could summarize the prejudice single people
| experience? I believe you, but it coul save hundreds of people
| from googling it individually.
| gtop3 wrote:
| I am many years behind the literature/research and do not
| personally feel qualified to write a short summary on this
| specific academic's work.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| TFA mentions, and I've encountered this in friends as well: fear
| of hurting others as a very common reason for not dating. My only
| advice is "You are guaranteed to hurt someone you get into a
| relationship with; them entering into a relationship with you
| means they think it is worth it."
|
| That doesn't mean there aren't wrong ways to go about
| relationships (abusers keep people in unhealthy relationships
| with a combination of manipulation and picking their victims
| well), but if you're legit hesitant to date someone because you
| are worried about hurting them, then that's probably not you.
| aschearer wrote:
| First off, bravo for sharing. Much respect.
|
| That said, this is borderline navel gazing. Stop thinking about
| "what it's like to go swimming" and jump in the lake. Yes, you'll
| get wet, look stupid, and make a mess. There's no way around
| that. The sooner the better.
|
| If you need to reason yourself into the water, I recommend "The
| Village Effect." Statistically, humans fair better with a rich
| tapestry of relationships. Are you ready to bet your life on
| being the exception? Move over, Pascal.
|
| More pointedly, can you really say you've examined life and lived
| it fully if you've never shared it intimately with another
| person? Can someone say they understand the world if they've
| never left their home? Do you want to be that person?
| BubbleRings wrote:
| Great post. And brave.
|
| One thing I believe strongly now, (although I did not always), is
| that we all very much have the right to be our most charming
| selves, and ask out people that catch our interest, but then
| gently let them down gently at any time after 1, 2, or even 10
| dates, with no reason needed to be given for why you are breaking
| up. And if the other person sends the signal of "you are so
| unkind, for making me like you so much/love you, and then leaving
| me", you can reject that message; it's not fair or valid.
|
| I hear you when you say you don't want to break anybody's heart.
| But you have the right to. And sometimes we do it, even though we
| don't mean to. And sometimes it is the right thing to do.
| rektide wrote:
| The vast majority of relationships don't work. That is
| absolutely not a good reason not to play.
|
| It hurts but folks should be ante-ing anyways. And one of the
| only ways to make better experiences is with practice &
| experience. Don't deny that XP gain.
| scohesc wrote:
| I've been single all my life as well, heading into my 30's and
| it's getting to the point where I feel like the crippling
| loneliness is absolutely killing me on the inside, likely going
| to lead me to an early death. Trying not to seem "needy" or come
| off as desperate is hard and is definitely a turn-off.
|
| I avoided social situations all my life because I was (and still
| am) afraid of rejection. I minimized the amount of time I
| socialized with people because I felt inherently different, that
| I didn't belong, that somehow my presence was offensive/offending
| to people - likely due to the constant emotional manipulation and
| abuse from both my parents growing up.
|
| After going to therapy for almost a decade and finally getting
| the courage to leave my abusive family, I feel like the "social"
| parts of my brain that should have developed years ago have now
| atrophied/cemented themselves into place, unable to experience
| the emotions, unable to mentally process social cues and
| understand the "hidden meaning" the things people say.
|
| I don't feel like the label "incel" or "volcel" applies to me, I
| feel like I'm stuck in this persistent state of limbo where I
| know I could might be in a relationship if I tried, but why
| bother if it's likely just going to end up in
| regret/rejection/heartbreak/etc? The pros/cons don't seem to
| weigh out - but then again, how would I know if I've never been
| in a relationship? Doesn't help that I feel like I'm scared of
| women for some reason either.
|
| I'm incredibly embarrassed to admit I've never been on a date of
| any kind or talked with women my age in any capacity other than
| small talk. It kills me inside every day I look at myself and
| scream internally at why and how I feel so broken socially and
| mentally. Doesn't help now that the hairline's receding.
|
| I know this doesn't really relate to the authors' article at all,
| just looking to see if anybody else feels this way or have felt
| this way. I think people in the tech industry can relate to it
| more considering I'm sure a lot of people here have been glued to
| their computers like I have for long periods of their lives.
|
| Online dating doesn't make things easier either...
| em-bee wrote:
| _I minimized the amount of time I socialized with people
| because I felt inherently different, that I didn 't belong,
| that somehow my presence was offensive/offending to people_
|
| try traveling to places where you clearly do not fit in. i have
| made similar experiences, not as strong, but i always felt like
| an outsider in school and in my environment mainly because i
| didn't want to fit in.
|
| living in a different country made this a lot easier to deal
| with. i changed from being an outsider to being a foreigner,
| which the locals were curious about and i felt more accepted
| because there is no expectation for a foreigner to fit in.
| all2 wrote:
| > I avoided social situations all my life because I was (and
| still am) afraid of rejection.
|
| You've acknowledged this is a problem. What are you going to do
| to fix it?
|
| > I feel like the "social" parts of my brain that should have
| developed years ago have now atrophied/cemented themselves into
| place, unable to experience the emotions, unable to mentally
| process social cues and understand the "hidden meaning" the
| things people say.
|
| Fortunately for you, your feeling is incorrect. Those parts of
| your brain may be underdeveloped, but the brain is plastic and
| can be changed.
|
| > but why bother if it's likely just going to end up in
| regret/rejection/heartbreak/etc? The pros/cons don't seem to
| weigh out - but then again, how would I know if I've never been
| in a relationship?
|
| If you don't try, you'll never go anywhere. Have the courage to
| get hurt. If you get hurt, keep moving.
|
| > I'm incredibly embarrassed to admit I've never been on a date
| of any kind
|
| Don't sweat it. Many men are in this same position.
|
| > It kills me inside every day I look at myself and scream
| internally at why and how I feel so broken socially and
| mentally.
|
| So what are you going to do about it?
|
| > Doesn't help now that the hairline's receding.
|
| Take a look at the work of Derek from _More Plates, More
| Dates_. He had a receding hairline as well, and managed to
| reverse it with a combination of select shampoos,
| microneedling, and some other things.
|
| > just looking to see if anybody else feels this way or have
| felt this way
|
| Yes. I looked in the mirror for many years and hated what I
| saw. I still feel that way sometimes. There are many just like
| us.
| gnramires wrote:
| Try some kind of hobby!
|
| Play (e.g. board) games with highly sensitive people that have
| the (social) skills you want to develop, hang around with them,
| try social dancing classes. Most people will pickup skills when
| it is necessary in context -- give it enough time and activity
| and it'll probably develop. Practice!
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| As an unhappy single with two past relationships, lots of
| experience in many crazy things including most drugs, let me tell
| you that times where you truly love someone while knowing they
| truly love you back, in other words true mutual love, are
| probably the most beautiful times in the world one can
| experience: Holding someone in your arms wishing you'd die right
| then and there because you know you have peaked in non-drug-
| induced happiness.
|
| And nothing is worse than the fear of never experiencing it ever
| again.
|
| It took 6 years of active searching to find my first love and 3
| for the second. Those despair inducing time frames and the
| acquired knowledge about how hard it really is to nurture and
| maintain relationships beyond the love, as a hypersensitive loner
| on the spectrum with mental illness makes me despair.
| [deleted]
| mettamage wrote:
| If you don't mind me asking, how did you search actively? Why
| didn't it work out?
|
| I've also searched actively. It didn't work out in my case as
| well. Relationships are hard.
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| I am a 30 year old gay man living in a city of 2 million. By
| now, to some degree at least, I personally know every single
| gay man that passes my requirements regarding socioeconomic
| status, personality and physical attractivity. It didn't work
| out because they didn't want me, I didn't want them or
| chatting with them was so uninspiring, we didn't even meet.
| But to answer your question more concretely, generally it
| didn't work out because my lack of physical attraction or the
| lack of the spark, the click, the compatibility in
| conversation.
|
| I have literally played through the video games called Tinder
| and Grindr. I was on OkCupid and I had phases where I went
| out a lot.
|
| The only chances I have are men leaving long term
| relationships or men that move here. Though dating anyone
| whose native language isn't German is frustrating to me,
| because others fluency and eloquence in English is usually
| even more limited than mine.
|
| Desiring someone with abs and a penis that doesn't turn me
| off in the upper 20% income bracket, who is much more bottom
| than top, doesn't need my help to get stuff from shelves and
| has a sharp mind leaves me very little choice to begin with.
|
| The one and only realistic thing to increase my chances would
| be to move to Switzerland or Germany, where I would get a
| whole new dating pool.
|
| My difficult standards are out of my control and I really
| tried! My second partner was a great man, totally "marriage
| material", but his reluctance to turn his pear shaped dough
| body into a more chiseled form while at the same time
| enjoying my pornstar body ultimately made me resent him to
| the point where I ended things. I am either physically turned
| on by someone or not and loving them or not has absolutely
| nothing to do with it.
| numbers_guy wrote:
| Wow, and I thought women were demanding, lol.
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| Is demanding something in the ballpark of what you are
| offering yourself deplorable?
| numbers_guy wrote:
| Relax, morality does not need to enter the equation here
| and I am not judging you.
|
| But you are definitely very demanding, and even if you
| are in the top 1%, at that point it just becomes hard to
| meet a suitable partner if you restrict yourself to the
| top 1%, which is why you notice a lot of celebrities
| dating and marrying partners who are technically way
| below them in terms of looks and status.
| [deleted]
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| "Holding someone in your arms wishing you'd die right then and
| there because you know you have peaked in non-drug-induced
| happiness."
|
| Isn't that peak oxytocin induced happiness?
|
| Agree that it is incredible...
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| > Isn't that peak oxytocin induced happiness?
|
| Probably! Applying some reductio ad absurdum, isn't
| everything just bioelectric chemistry in our brain?
|
| I just wanted to point out that I consider that feeling as
| even more pleasant than drugs that technically set the level
| of "pleasant feeling" beyond what's naturally possible.
|
| Maybe I tried the wrong drugs, but they never made me cry
| from happiness, when having my first partner fall asleep with
| his head on my lap did.
| mmcgaha wrote:
| I am recently divorced and I don't see myself ever in another
| relationship. I would consider a partner where we live in
| different homes and don't share any expenses or responsibilities
| but I doubt any woman would accept that as a permanent
| arrangement.
| carbine wrote:
| don't be too quick to assume, i'm a woman and that sounds great
| ha
| shaftoe wrote:
| This resonates with me and I'm in a similar stage.
|
| I'd like something between hooking up with a stranger and
| recreating my life (again) around a new person. It's hard to do
| that once you're older and I'm actively avoiding being
| financially intertwined with another person.
|
| Besides having a lot to lose, I also question if I'm desired
| because of what I can financially bring to the table and as a
| labor source. Maybe I'm cynical, but this seems to be the
| calculus of a lot of single parents. I'm not looking to be the
| solution to someone else's life problems.
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| women do, from my experience.
|
| if raising kids isn't a factor, I bet many couples would be
| happier living on both sides of a duplex.
| epups wrote:
| That's pretty much what having a boyfriend or girlfriend sounds
| like. Many people do it without even living in the same city. I
| don't get what would be controversial about it, perhaps the
| expectation that it has to evolve to something different?
| shaftoe wrote:
| Correct.
|
| Many people have an expectation that boyfriend/girlfriend
| status is essentially a trial period for marriage. If it's
| not "going anywhere" it's a waste of time.
|
| As people age, if they have this perspective, they tend to
| become significantly less patient.
| GalenErso wrote:
| You're not alone (pun intended). Record numbers of Americans, men
| and women alike, are single.
|
| > Nearly 118 million Americans, or about 46% of those over 18
| years old, are single, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. But
| that percent is actually much higher for women--a record-breaking
| 52% of them are unmarried or separated as of 2021, according to a
| recent report from Wells Fargo Economics.
|
| https://fortune.com/2023/03/18/record-number-american-women-...
| [deleted]
| dividedbyzero wrote:
| Can't read the article due to their paywall but your quote
| makes it sound like unmarried and single is the same thing,
| which strikes me as an outlandish assumption in this day and
| age. Surely there are lots and lots of unmarried couples as
| well?
| ryanwaggoner wrote:
| Does that article use "single" to mean someone who isn't
| married? Because that leaves out a lot of partnered people.
|
| Pew reports 31% of Americans are unpartnered, and of those,
| half are looking and half aren't:
| https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profi...
| GalenErso wrote:
| An equal share of men and women are single (31%), but among
| 18-29 year olds, 51% of men are single, while only 32% of
| women are. What gives? People don't necessarily partner with
| people in their age group (e.g. a 27 yo woman partnered with
| a 31 yo man), but that's not enough to explain the gap, is
| it?
| nicoburns wrote:
| Could be women in that age group dating outside of that age
| group? And/or more lesbians in couples than gay men?
| baking wrote:
| Over a 12-year age cohort, 19% more men are single. That
| could be explained by women in relationships being 2.28
| years younger on average. Seems about right to me. Of
| course, older women are more likely to be single (widowed,
| divorced, or separated) but many of those are in same-sex
| relationships which are becoming more common.
| zokier wrote:
| "single" and "unmarried or separated" are very different
| things?!
| baking wrote:
| Data is from the US Census which has a narrow view of
| relationships.
| 3m wrote:
| >Also, if it doesn't work out, I'm scared of leaving a broken
| heart in another person. This is a telling statement. It really
| highlights his inexperience and immaturity with regards to
| relationships (not that this is in doubt - it is after all the
| subject of his post).
|
| Being the cause of, and the sufferer of a "broken heart" is a
| formative experience. There's nothing like healing a broken heart
| to teach you that actually things get better, and it wasn't right
| anyway. There's nothing like the fear of hurting someone else
| that will trap you in an unhealthy or unfulfilling relationship
| for far longer than it should have. When you finally summon the
| courage to end it, knowing it will hurt someone else - you
| immediately feel the freedom, and the other person's journey to
| healing begins too.
|
| I find it hard to understand people who make a mountain out of
| dating. It's a numbers game, and there's a gazillion ways to meet
| people.
| throwntoday wrote:
| > It's a numbers game
|
| I think to enter into a relationship knowing there will be an
| expiration date speaks more to your character. Almost sounds
| like "I'm with them unless something better comes along or
| their shortcomings become more than I want to deal with".
|
| If you genuinely love someone, you will stand by them, work on
| any problems, and remember that you chose to build a future
| together. Given that the divorce rate in my community is less
| than 1% we're probably doing _something_ right.
| nvarsj wrote:
| I guess I've been a "volcel" for almost 4 years now after an
| almost 20 year relationship.
|
| I have pretty mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, I get
| lonely, intensely lonely at times. And I miss the companionship I
| had (before it got awful.)
|
| On the other hand, I have so much time now to just focus on
| myself and my kids and my career and hobbies and my mental well
| being. I've increased my income a lot in the last year and re-
| sparked hobbies from my youth.
|
| But frankly, I am miserable. I don't know if meeting someone else
| would solve it, or whether it would just be me escaping (again)
| from my own demons.
|
| Being alone is one of the toughest things I've experienced.
| You're forced to be with yourself, all the time! There is no
| escape, where you can go hug or chat with your significant other.
| If you don't like yourself, or you have some underlying issues,
| you have to face it head on - and it's brutal.
|
| I'm trying to be comfortable, even happy, on my own. But it's a
| slow, grueling process of self awareness and conscious self care.
|
| Dating seems dire these days as well. Tech is a terrible industry
| for meeting someone. And online dating, which I've tried a few
| times, I found incredibly tiring and frustrating.
|
| I feel like there is a rise of apathy towards dating and
| relationships in general. I know many people who are single and
| sick of it all. It's all kind of depressing and I don't have an
| answer.
| hammyhavoc wrote:
| Working on yourself will lead you where you want to go. Wishing
| you health, happiness and peace, and the same for anybody else
| reading this.
| hexo wrote:
| "Working on yourself will lead you where you want to go"
| sorry, but this is one of the worst lies ever.
| IndigoIncognito wrote:
| Given that this guy has the ability to obtain a partner in
| the first place, it probably will for him
| kelipso wrote:
| [dead]
| hammyhavoc wrote:
| If you get on a train, you are statistically more likely to
| reach your destination than just sitting on your ass. Yes,
| you may die in a fiery trainwreck, but getting on the train
| will lead you in the direction to where you intend to go.
|
| If you do nothing, expect nothing.
|
| If you attempt to work on your personal problems, be they
| psychological, physical, financial, whatever, you are more
| likely to make a change in your life than just accepting
| that this is your life.
| hexo wrote:
| Yea, more likely is the correct term. 100% agree on that.
| Unlike in travel, there is no map or compass to show you
| the right direction.
|
| Especially, when the outcome is exact opposite than
| intended after many, many months of hard work on
| yourself.
| hammyhavoc wrote:
| Struggling with autism, I not infrequently get on the
| wrong literal non-metaphorical train, stand on the wrong
| platform for an hour, pass the station I'm meant to
| disembark. It's rough. But you can extrapolate that idea
| to working on yourself too--sometimes we forget to get
| off the metaphorical train, don't know which train we're
| meant to be getting, not even sure how to get somewhere,
| but as long as someone is trying to get somewhere rather
| than just being content with where they are, I think
| that's beneficial in most scenarios.
|
| I've also struggled with depression, hence the "sitting
| on your ass", wallowed for many years and just tread
| water. Execute on intent--do something--carpe diem--make
| a change--you can always make another--just don't accept
| your life as-is if you're unhappy with it.
| hexo wrote:
| I have to thank you for the positive mindset you're
| trying to teach us here!
|
| Also, as you say, it is very important to _not_ accept
| bad state -- this is so important I can 't stress it
| enough. Even more, because of how some generic people
| mindset can easily get you into "learned helplessness"
| state.
| all2 wrote:
| > On the one hand, I get lonely, intensely lonely at times. And
| I miss the companionship I had (before it got awful.)
|
| I know the feeling, though perhaps not so deeply. My LTR was
| only 7 years.
|
| > Dating seems dire these days as well.
|
| Depending on your religious moors, you might consider hitting
| some conservative churches.
| [deleted]
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| It seems like this quote gets to to heart of the issue:
|
| > a relationship isn't an activity (like a job, hobby, or sport)
| to try and quit when you don't like it. It requires two people,
| and you must find a second person willing to try. Finding someone
| is hard, though. This brings me back to what I said a few
| paragraphs ago; I don't see myself ready to invest much in
| something I'm not even sure I want. Also, if it doesn't work out,
| I'm scared of leaving a broken heart in another person.
|
| I would say that for many people a relationship are something to
| try and quit when you don't like it. It is easy to get caught up
| in what-ifs and commitment fears, but stakes are extremely low
| for starting one.
|
| This reminds me of people who build up a first kiss or first sex
| into some monumental event. It seems important or daunting for
| someone who hasn't done it, but once it has happened, most of
| that importance instantly evaporates.
|
| I also find the last fear of breaking the someone's heart
| infantilizing. You can't take ownership of other people's
| choices. Treat them as adults and let them take the risks they
| choose to.
| numbers_guy wrote:
| I respectfully disagree. Some people cannot help but be very
| heavily emotionally invested.
| teelelbrit wrote:
| [dead]
| kube-system wrote:
| > The obvious course of action when you are unsure about
| something is experimentation. However, a relationship isn't an
| activity (like a job, hobby, or sport) to try and quit when you
| don't like it. It requires two people, and you must find a second
| person willing to try. Finding someone is hard, though. This
| brings me back to what I said a few paragraphs ago; I don't see
| myself ready to invest much in something I'm not even sure I
| want. Also, if it doesn't work out, I'm scared of leaving a
| broken heart in another person.
|
| It doesn't have to be this way to start out. A relationship can
| be something that happens as a result of a friendship. It doesn't
| have to be an expectation from the moment you first meet someone.
| Take things slow, and you'll have a minimum amount of investment
| and a minimum risk of broken hearts. Don't think of it as
| "starting a relationship", think of it as "meeting new people". A
| relationship isn't something you choose, it's something that
| sometimes happens if the right circumstances align. If it _is_
| the right thing for you, the time and emotional investment will
| come naturally.
| majormajor wrote:
| Even if you take the "starting a relationship" path (e.g.
| online dating to meet people) you really shouldn't be afraid of
| breaking someone else's heart.
|
| Assuming you don't break someone's heart by betraying them or
| some other awful action, taking responsibility for a broken
| heart is putting way too much responsibility on yourself, and
| not respecting other people's agency.
|
| It's also going to probably sabotage your attempts to learn-by-
| experimentation in relationships. Most likely the person on the
| other side of the relationship isn't going to know where it's
| going from day 1, it could be love, it could be something less
| but still fun, it could just be one or two dates. None of those
| are necessarily bad outcomes, but if you're weighing yourself
| down with all that pressure, you're going to make it harder for
| yourself to be open and honest and have fun.
|
| You have some catching up to do - others may have learned some
| basic relationship skills in school, say, where the stakes were
| obviously lower and few people were getting married or anything
| anyway - but IME step one on getting that practice in is to
| take away that pressure and take it easy. One good thing to
| help with that, I think, is not to be too picky - if you
| haven't dated much, you probably don't know what your "perfect
| match" is like, so go out there and find out, versus waiting
| for one person who you build up so much in your mind you
| sabotage yourself with the anxiety of screwing it up.
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| This caught my eye as well. I would go even further and say
| that being so protective of others is infantilizing and
| disrespectful.
|
| Assuming they are consenting and informed adults, they can
| take their own risks.
|
| Assessing counterparty risk and making the choice for them
| overrides their desires and values, and imposes yours.
|
| If there is one thing that _I_ have learned in relationships,
| it is that you shouldn 't attempt to control others in this
| way.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| I regret that I have only one upvote for this comment. Unless
| you are either highly abusive or dating someone with
| significant mental/emotional impairment then assigning the
| fault to yourself _in advance of any actual problems_ is
| beyond unhealthy
| kube-system wrote:
| I agree, I just wanted to give an "easy option" for someone
| who sounds like their fear of the process is keeping them
| from trying at all.
|
| I didn't read it as someone who is not respectful of others
| agency as much as it might just be someone who is comfortable
| being alone and avoidant of inconvenient social situations.
| prirun wrote:
| I've been single for all but 5 years of my adult (>20) life.
| After my 5-year relationship ended, I tried the dating scene for
| 2-3 years, but it's a lot of work for a gay introvert, and I
| decided that the effort-to-reward was not worth it for me
| personally and haven't dated for a long time.
|
| Am I completely happy with this? No. But I don't know any couples
| who are completely happy either. For me, it's like 2 sides of the
| same coin: I'm happy most of the time, unhappy sometimes. And I
| think it would be the same if I was in a relationship.
|
| A big difference is, if I notice I'm unhappy, usually lonesome,
| it's easy to fix by getting involved in some activity with
| friends, family or just by myself, like taking a walk outside.
| But when I was in a relationship, being unhappy, usually because
| of some relationship issue, was more like misery. And because
| this other person is part of the unhappiness, it's very
| difficult/impossible to solve on my own. We were living together,
| so it's not easy to ignore the issue: it's in your face all the
| time.
|
| Another way I look at it is having a life with highs and lows vs
| a life that's more "even", without a lot of ups and downs. To
| some people, a life without highs and lows may be boring. Or, it
| can be viewed as basically content.
|
| I do think there's a big difference between never having had a
| relationship of any kind, and having had one and deciding it's
| not your thing. Before I was in a relationship, I felt like an
| alien: everyone around me was dating or in a relationship and I
| had no idea what that was like. It made me feel defective and
| isolated from everyone, and I'm not sure that would have gotten
| better with time. So I'm glad I did get to experience love in a
| relationship, but as we were both pretty miserable by the end of
| it, I'm not sorry it ended. We are still friends and still
| talk/text occasionally.
| all2 wrote:
| Archive link for those who are having issues getting the article
| to load:
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20230410132952/https://lukasrose...
|
| ---
|
| [edit for commentary]
|
| I was like the author, except I have had a burning desire to have
| family and children since I was a boy. I started thinking about
| fatherhood when I was maybe 12.
|
| After a failed long term relationship, and three or four
| girlfriends I finally settled with the fact that my drive to
| fulfill this desire overrides pretty much any degree of pain or
| dissatisfaction from prior relationships. I've prayed plenty of
| times to have this desire taken from me because it screwed with
| my head to be single. As if this one thing was a gateway to the
| rest of my life. I know that's not fundamentally true, and I
| haven't put my life on hold just because I lack a romantic
| relationship.
|
| I generally advise even hesitant men to "go for it" because they
| won't make any progress towards a goal if they don't get over
| themselves and _try_. To the guys who have tried and failed, I
| say "take damage, keep moving".
|
| There are whole groups of men on the other side of failed
| relationships that are utter poison to everyone around them.
|
| If anyone needs a cheerleader or someone to keep them
| accountable, let me know.
| [deleted]
| bradfitz wrote:
| The origin webserver might also be single... threaded.
| LastTrain wrote:
| It is a shame how few people will get to see this joke
| [deleted]
| awacs wrote:
| As we all get older we tend to scale horizontally, which is
| also a problem.
| [deleted]
| natas wrote:
| haha
| sva_ wrote:
| A single thread on a not-ancient system should have no
| problem serving the amount of requests this page is probably
| facing, given efficient code.
| [deleted]
| CoolioMqSo wrote:
| I felt like I had to say this
|
| FYI This guy isn't ugly, actually average looking 30yr old white
| guy, isn't short, is socially active. I honestly have no idea why
| this guy is still a virgin, im pretty sure he could find someone
| on a dating app if he got in shape.
| mr_mitm wrote:
| Maybe he has psychological issues. For example, people with
| schizoid personality disorder tend to be single because they
| have trouble connecting with people.
| IndigoIncognito wrote:
| Thats what I was thinking, I really doubt it, he seems like a
| really nice guy and he speaks/ posts online in a
| "neurotypical" manner, however neurotypical people usually
| don't talk about their virginity on a blogpost lol
|
| Still baffled that he is a virgin, especially at his age,
| maybe someone in a relationship can give him advice, he has a
| twitter
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| he might have watched parents bicker endlessly and have
| internalized a "no thanks" sort of skepticism?
| all2 wrote:
| Low drive to mate could be because his T is low. I wonder if
| he's had his hormones checked.
| hotpotamus wrote:
| Then with the right injections, he could make lots of babies?
| all2 wrote:
| Probably not? Dunno. Depends on the injections. If you're
| curious, YouTuber Vigorous Steve talks about this stuff in
| a great detail.
| TobyTheDog123 wrote:
| You're getting downvoted, but I'm not entirely sure why. It's
| not some toxic Andrew-Tate-esque take to consider low
| testosterone as a possibility for the lack of drive the
| author mentions.
|
| Personally, I plan on doing it soon, there's no harm in it.
| all2 wrote:
| T levels aren't everything, though. Get a full hormone
| panel. I got one and found my adrenals weren't producing
| enough DHEA.
|
| Also note that HRT, and specifically testosterone
| supplementation may not address core issues. I was a
| candidate for test, but this would have allowed my adrenals
| to stay suppressed and ruined my balls.
| runnr_az wrote:
| For us regular guys, nothing is gonna happen with relationships
| unless you make it happen.
| hammyhavoc wrote:
| Anecdotal, but dating apps have to be the worst way to meet
| someone. Everybody I ever met through them has major problems
| and that's why they have to meet people through an app
| dedicated to meeting people for relationships. It's such an
| unnatural and strange concept.
| browningstreet wrote:
| Hard disagree. My last "n" relationships over more than a
| decade came from dating apps. It's also a high-percentage
| source of relationships these days.
|
| Dating apps can be where people go shopping, but it can also
| just be a way to filter for people you wouldn't ordinarily
| encounter doing the things you do day to day. In that
| respect, they're great.
| hammyhavoc wrote:
| Anecdote v anecdote, matey. As with anything, if they work
| for you and others, that's great. I have a feeling that it
| may be a demographic thing related to geographic area, that
| and the times have of course changed and dating apps are
| far more mainstream than they were a decade ago.
|
| An additional anecdote though as an in-between of both of
| ours: my mother in the UK met a man from Canada in a
| chatroom over twenty years ago, divorced my father, and
| they're still married. Not to say that it has always been
| smooth sailing at times for them (he's got paranoid
| schizophrenia, she's physically disabled now), but they're
| happy, so meeting people via software evidently does work
| for some people.
|
| I mean, look at us, we don't know each other, but we're
| having a conversation, so if that idea is extrapolated to a
| dating app, sure, I can buy into the idea that they can be
| effective for some people.
| em-bee wrote:
| one thing i think where dating apps help (or being
| introduced by someone as potential partners) is that you
| can discuss relationship goals very early. that helps
| weeding out unsuitable candidates quickly.
| hexo wrote:
| (my) general feeling is that these dating apps works
| mostly for people who dont need them in the first place
| anyway... spoiling it for everyone else
| SoftAnnaLee wrote:
| Could also be a consequence of just not having much desire to
| "mate". It's not unheard of for people to not want to "mate";
| there's a reason why asexual is a term that people use to
| describe themselves.
| natas wrote:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20230410132952/https://lukasrose...
| fernly wrote:
| I think the word that Rosenstock was searching for, was
| "Introvert"[1]. I'm an introvert who had the good fortune to
| marry another introvert, and live contentedly with her for 40+
| years. Following her death a few years ago I reflected on the
| differences between being part of a couple, and being solitary.
| There were many.
|
| Health maintenance was one; somebody else in this thread has
| already commented on married men living longer. It works both
| ways, too. Each partner keeps tabs on the other, notices
| problems, encourages them to stick to health resolutions, etc.
| Plus you both are much less likely to forget things or miss
| appointments, because the other one is there to say, "Didn't you
| say..." or "Weren't you going to...?" and so on.
|
| There were other, more subtle but still powerful effects. In
| general, I and my wife, as a couple, were a bolder, smarter, more
| adventurous "person" than either of us was alone.
|
| So my advice to Rosenstock would be to seek another dedicated
| introvert. Of course it's hard to get their attention...
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraversion_and_introversion
|
| "Introversion is the state of primarily obtaining gratification
| from one's own mental life". There is a considerable popular
| literature on the benefits and drawbacks of being introverted.
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